Is the Lypo power taking over the internal combustion engine? Just a Thought....

[Rafael Gonzalez]

This post is one of those that one tends to say ..."So what? It is progress." But for those like myself, it creates a feeling of nostalgia. And, perhaps, of times fading away.

  Over this weekend, I was going over some of my relics that have not been active/flown in a while. I found many engines and planes(R/C) that are not "the click" anymore. About 7-10 years back, I was very active in the Radio Control facet of our hobby. It is amazing how it has changed in just 10 yrs.! Some of the items may not be recognizable to many CL flyers but to some that have done R/C it may. I won't reminisce and fall into nostalgia, but a few are gone or discontinued. Webra, Nelson Q500( supported in parts), MVVS Q500, YS 90, Dynamix carbs, OS 70 Ultimate supercharged, etc., are no longer being supported in the USA (I've searched...). The constant loss of private/public fields, noise complaints, etc., have made it very difficult to fly our models.  To join a club in addition to the AMA fees has become an investment. Those are in part why I have abstained from flying R/C. The other is Club politics. Believe it or not, much worse than BOM, PA Judging, Descriptions, etc.  

Alas! Here comes the advancement of the battery technology! It is incredible the doors that the LyPo/Ion power has opened. In addition, the amount of mixing the latest transmitter has available is infinite. Hence, incredible 3D in aircraft and heli machines. I understand now, why most hobby internet retailers have 75-80% of their advertisement aimed at the electric market. What is going to happen to internal combustion?

Yes, it is funny how the general hobby has evolved since the advent of the ion/lypo batteries. I hope that I, as I may be a dinosaur, do not see gas model engines become obsolete or completely replaced by electric counterparts. I LOVE the smell of Nitro in the mornings. I LOVE the Castor oil on my hands, I LOVE the sound of a 35K engine in FAI combat, I LOVE the sound of a "sparker". I do not get any of those with the electrics. While many now love the electrics, I do not like the buzzing sound as the airplane flies by. I can compare it in a simple analogy:
A gas grill Vs. A charcoal grill. It is convenient to have a gas grill, instant on and ready to cook; electric flight. Charcoal takes a while to come on and cook; gas/fueled flight. I like the flavor of charcoal cooking...

I have a friend that sold all his nitro stunt engines (without me knowing it at the time) for peanuts, and is replacing all the aircraft power with electric. He loves it!

What did I tell him when I found out you ask?

" They day you see me flying a CL electric, shoot me I may be rabid "  

 

[Brian Massey]

I too love the smell of the nitro and the sound of the engine breaking from 4 to 2 cycle. The electrics are quiet, and may well be the "future" of control line, but I for one will continue on with IC engines.

Reminds me when the turbine invaded Indy. The car swooshed down the straights eating everything in it's path, while making almost no sound. As I understand it, the Indy powers that be at the time feared the quietness would turn off race fans; and that was one of the main reasons for placing so many restrictions on the turbine . . . so they could get rid of it.

Brian

[Larry Cunningham]

I love the smell of electric motor windings in the morning.. ;->

L.

"It does not pay a prophet to be too specific." -L. Sprague de Camp

[don Burke]

 

I too love the smell of the nitro and the sound of the engine breaking from 4 to 2 cycle. The electrics are quiet, and may well be the "future" of control line, but I for one will continue on with IC engines.

Reminds me when the turbine invaded Indy. The car swooshed down the straights eating everything in it's path, while making almost no sound. As I understand it, the Indy powers that be at the time feared the quietness would turn off race fans; and that was one of the main reasons for placing so many restrictions on the turbine . . . so they could get rid of it.

Brian

Very true, they were so quiet it took the excitement out of it.  Sort of like watching a silent film with the background music.
My ears have paid the price of too many 2-stroke engines but I still like the sound of a well tuned one at full speed.

[Bob Reeves]

Development of internal combustion engines is still ongoing, reference a couple posts I made in the 4 stroke section this morning. I really believe if we understood what we do today about 4 strokes a few years ago not only would have seen many more in competition but it would be the engine of choice by many a top competitor.

I was an AT in the navy and spent most of my life playing and working in electronics, one would think I would have been one that would have jumped to electric early in the game, instead I'm playing with 4 strokes and loving the heck out of doing so. As it stands right now my 4 strokes give up nothing to electrics except the oil on the airplane. From the electrics I have observed, my 4 strokes still have a slight advantage in speed control.

Nope not ready to make the jump, that may change and as they make more advancements in battery technology and timer firmware I'm sure electrics will eventually be better than anything we have ever had.

[Rafael Gonzalez]

I love the smell of electric motor windings in the morning.. ;->

L.

"It does not pay a prophet to be too specific." -L. Sprague de Camp

 

[Dennis Moritz]

Electrics have many advantages. But noisy, smell, IC, still dominates the 99%  . For many good reasons.

[Brian Massey]

Development of internal combustion engines is still ongoing, reference a couple posts I made in the 4 stroke section this morning. I really believe if we understood what we do today about 4 strokes a few years ago not only would have seen many more in competition but it would be the engine of choice by many a top competitor.

I was an AT in the navy and spent most of my life playing and working in electronics, one would think I would have been one that would have jumped to electric early in the game, instead I'm playing with 4 strokes and loving the heck out of doing so. As it stands right now my 4 strokes give up nothing to electrics except the oil on the airplane. From the electrics I have observed, my 4 strokes still have a slight advantage in speed control.

Nope not ready to make the jump, that may change and as they make more advancements in battery technology and timer firmware I'm sure electrics will eventually be better than anything we have ever had.

Yea, the 4 strokes! I have two Saito 62's sitting in their boxes waiting for a ride. I love the sound and steady pull they have. I believe they are my future.

Brian

[De Hill]

My Fox and my Ringmaster, they comfort me....

[Mike Keville]

My Fox and my Ringmaster, they comfort me....

Right on, Brother!!!   

[Mike Lauerman]

Encourage electric flying. We may muster former VP and EPA hero Al Gore to our ranks!

[Jim Thomerson]

I think if one could get the figures for R&D on small IC engines vs small electrics, it would turn out that spending is at least a thousand to one in favor of the electrics.  There is an awful lot of work being done on power sources for electrics.  Use your lipos because they are going to be replaced by something smaller, safer, more powerful, and cheaper in the foreseeable future.

I'm going to stick with glow and diesel.  At sometime in the future the only model IC engine available will be the Fox stunt 35. 

[John Fitzgerald]

I am sticking to glow.  I have too much stuff to just ditch it.   Besides, electric is very expensive to change over to.

[Clint Ormosen]

After saying that I never would, I may make the switch to electric. I know some of my friends won't like it, but there are just too many advantages to ignore any longer.
I won't use E-power for Classic or OT, though. Those planes must smell like castor!

[PJ Rowland]

Also in general the new breed of RC " Park fliers " are a very incompetent lot.

I often visit my local hobby shop and some of the questions the RC "park fliers" as defies beleif.. I think the advent of electric engines for these guys is to try and enable them to "point and shoot"

Like one guy said " Why cant I put mower fuel in, its all fuel " - In todays land of RC ARF, point and click cameras and lack of personal liability to learn new skills, the current modern day modeller is fairly useless. The myiad of new technologies to support them is mindblowing.

Then you have the other end of the scale, guys who are willing to develop and push electric technology and get the most out it, have huge advantages.


Sorry about the rant.. Im sick of current generation of newbie RC Park fliers. I know everyone has to start somewhere but....... Thats why our insurances are through the roof, morons doing the wrong thing due to incompetence.

 

[John Cralley]

My Fox and my Ringmaster, they comfort me....

Well, my Scorpion and my Ringmaster comfort me!!!     

[proparc]

The more people move to electrics, the more it will help to keep the price of those awesome Saitos in check! 

[Hoss Cain]

One more vote here for Glow and Gas burners.  Just the thought of electric powered airplanes is reason to barf !   

It's understandable why the newbies and youngsters gather to it. Easy, and cheap to start with and play with. Those of us that grew up with tissue, silkspan, dope, and razor blades, those cardboard parts kits during the WW II era and old time cement glue, well its difficult to let that past slip away.
OTOH when epoxy arrived well Happy Happy! When 5 minute epoxy came on the scene, Oh Boy Heaven has arrived, Then when the first "Hot Stuff" (CA) hit the hobby dealer's shelves well OH BOY, OH BOY, OH BOY!!!
How many shucked those coils, condensers, batteries and spark plugs along with the engine points, when Ray Arden released his little Glow Bug er, ah 'Plug'

So whatever the reason, the electric and an ARF are a made-in-heaven for the average fellows that have only a jam-packed garage to work in. As a Kid, I well  remember building on a large sheet of cardboard and sliding it under the bed when not working on it. Sanding and Paint was done outside, or in the garage which had to be cleaned afterwards.

So the change to electrics is understandable for the strictly HOBBY end of aeromodeling. For the person that likes to be the "IN GUY", well, he too wants to be up with whatever is being marketed as, "You MUST have this latest junk er, ah newest thing. 

Thankfully I still love my 2 cycle engines. Sold my OS 1.20 4 stroke long ago. Just recently sold a YS 140 4st. that was new in box after 4 years in a cabinet. Still have a Saito 1.50 () Gold head in the cabinet along with many many new 2 cycles from Super Cyclones to I don't even know what is the latest. I have a number of 2 cycle gas burners that have never had a prop on them. Actually I have way too much for the years remaining, and here I am wasting time on a dad-burned computer.
    

[john e. holliday]

From a well known person, I was told that biggest advantage to electric is to be able to go fly while every one else is asleep.  Even in our park system, no running of IC engines before 0900, even with the best muffler available.  I now know of several planes that are pay, assemble and fly for control line.   I just need to get the $$$$$.

[Andrew Tinsley]

One senior member of a UK distributor says that as far as he is concerned........"glow is dead".
That may be so, I much prefer diesels, however I feel somewhat sad to think that IC engines are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. A feeling I had when steam power was announced as dead on our railways. One of sadness that really hurt. Now there is steam all over the railway system and paying enthusiasts are making economic sense to repair and even build new steam locomotives.
Perhaps there will be a resurgence in IC power, I doubt it though, too much money to be made in instant electric kit. I have more than enough stuff to keep me going until I am too old to fly. There will always be a hard core of people that like the old ways best!
Given the choice of flying electric or nothing, I would take the nothing option. Minature IC engines are the real interest for me, get rid of that aspect of our hobby and there is little left for me.

Andrew.  

[Dennis Adamisin]

As  hobbiest engaged in leisure time activity I choose to build what ever I want and power it however I want.  I also will choose what parts of the package I want to tinker with and which parts I do not wish to bother with.  I enjoy getting airplanes to fly well.  I couldn't care less about messing with engines.  However, I do not care to impose my will on others who interpret their leisure time activities diferently than me, and I will celebrate with my modeling brothers & sisters...

When I am in the Living Room sitting on my "Lazy-Dennis" chair I miss glow engines; the sound, the smell and the how my hands feel with castor oil on them.  When I am at the flying field I do not miss them at all; not the noise, not the stench, and espcially not the grease.

The idea that a Nobler with a ST 46 is somehow more "authentic" than a Nobler with an AXI is just plain silly.  Regardless of what happens at VSC or elsewhere, I choose to power my OTS, Classics, Nos 30 or what ever else how I see fit. I enjoy flying and watching the old designs fly again - and dearly want to fly at VSC some day.  Heck with the power systems!

One of my favorite airplanes is Bob Zambelli's Viking with an OK 60 running with period ignition system.  However, I will never have one like that!  A Viking with an Arrowind 2820 - NOW YOUR TALKING!  Lets see how that old warrior can FLY!

[PJ Rowland]

" I choose to power my OTS, Classics, Nos 30 or what ever else how I see fit. "

I hear you loud and clear...

[Jim Kraft]

I've hardly moved out of sparkers yet, let alone glow. I still love the sounds and smells of an old sparker in either control line or free flight with a radio. Granted, it is a bit more of a challenge some days, but that is what makes it fun to me. I have taken advantage of the new battery tech. to a point. I will probably try the latest thing when the chargers get down in price. I am also starting to fly more with gasoline and 60wt. Harley oil as fuel costs rise. I do see how guys can really go for electric though, and they will most likely take over in a few short years. Guess I am just old school. Thinking back over my many years of modeling, I have always built and flown what I thought I would enjoy, rather than what would win. I did try to win at every contest I flew in, just with what I was flying at the time. And I am an engine guy at heart, and mostly just find a design that will work with a certain engine, rather than building a plane and then finding an engine for it.

[FLOYD CARTER]

I maintain a healthy respect for electric flying.  I'm flying a large electric stunter that is quite capable of good contest performance.  I'm still a bit unhappy with the weight penalty of batteries, although the LiPo technology is going in the right direction.

In a few years I'm hoping that battery tech will improve, along with prices.

Floyd

[peabody]

Electrics are, apparently, here to stay....
The season ending contest in Palisades Prak, NJ saw the top FOUR experts flying battery powered stuff...

I have judged many e-flights, and personally think that they lack "drive" in places....

I do think that the idea that the controllers can change motor output at stratigic places during the flight is in clear violation of the rules....I would imagine that there would be huge outcry it those same controllers were hooked to a servo that governed an IC engine's carbrurator?

Have fun!

[Brett Buck]

The idea that a Nobler with a ST 46 is somehow more "authentic" than a Nobler with an AXI is just plain silly.  

    I have been making that point for years. People go on and on about sacred past "the way it really was" as they fire up their Nobler w/Aero Tiger 36 and a graphite prop. If I was king of the world, I would change the Classic rules to limit ONLY the engine to those available and commonly used at the time (stock Fox/McCoy/Forster, 35's etc) and wood props, and let people design whatever airplane they wanted to. If anybody came up with an airplane significantly different that what was flown at the time, it would probably be a mistake.

     I also don't understand the tendency of people to latch on to a particular approach and then hold on to it like grim death, and get upset when someone does something else. It  like that with Fox 35s, ST60s, "Schneurle of the Month" engines, 4-strokes, and now you see it with piped engines and electrics. It's like they have something about their egos invested, something like "Fox 35s are MY thing, I will defend it to the end" regardless of the actual pros and cons, and regardless of the individual's ability to tell the difference. About once a month I still get questions about "how do I modify my 40VF for a "real stunt run"? "as if the last 25 years never happened.

    The world marches on. I see no good reason not to take advantage of the changes, evaluate the latest thing, and see if it will work. If 90% of people are flying electric in 5 years, so what?

    Brett

[Brett Buck]

I do think that the idea that the controllers can change motor output at stratigic places during the flight is in clear violation of the rules....I would imagine that there would be huge outcry it those same controllers were hooked to a servo that governed an IC engine's carbrurator?

  What rule does that break (paragraph number and quote)?  Oh, right, no rule at all, and you are pulling that out of your posterior. In AMA you can hook up all the controllers you want, there's absolutely no rule against it. In FAI it is currently clearly allowed on electrics, and there is a "proposal" to allow it on IC engines since there was never any valid reason to ban it there, either.

    I would also note that your idol did indeed hook a servo up to a RC carb, and ran it with a IR controller, and no one gave a damn about that. I might also add that he frequently landed with the engine running, which might have been arguably against the rules, and not one cared about that, either.

     Brett

[peabody]

Idol?

[Dennis Moritz]

Electric offers plenty of advantages. Mike Palko's set ups never seems at a loss for power. Also. Very reliable. Most folks are using IC, still, far as I can tell. In our club 2 or 3 out of 30 or so who fly regularly use electric birds. That's with Mike right here ready to design/assemble all kinds of systems that will work plug and play. The initial outlay of cash for charger and what not is probably one reason most of us have not shifted over. The challenge of IC, also a fascination, a kind of addiction. Like all you out there who continue to peck away at crashing PCs when MACs work no fuss or muss. LA46s, FPs, and so forth, can be had real cheap at fleas. Or if you fly with us, we give away this and that. Not reached that level of hording with the buzzy but  quiet battery powered blahh blahh.

[Andrew Tinsley]

Just to make it plain, I don't really care what people use, be it glow diesel spak or modern electric. Each to their own and I am not trying to stop the clock at some particular time in control line flying. I am a qualified electrical and electronic engineer and I delight in building electronic circuitry.
I simply like flying control line planes with IC and will be very sad when that is no longer possible. I have dabbled in electric free flight for small planes a good few years ago, so I am not anti electric, I just like some form of IC engine up front when flying control line.
As Brett said, he doesn't think that a Nobler with an aerotiger upfront is particularly authentic and neither do I. I wouldn't fly that combination and neither do I want to fly electric control line, just my take on the subject. By all means let others do what they want!

Andrew.

[Russ Danneman]

I am sticking to glow.  I have too much stuff to just ditch it.   Besides, electric is very expensive to change over to.

SAME HERE 

[Fred Cronenwett]

Speaking from a CL scale point of view I am considering projects that I never would have considered if I had to use glow engines. I still fly glow power and currently have one CL scale model with an electric motor. All of my projects I have planned or under construction will be electric power. At the FCM contest in Muncie last Aug there were several electric powered CL scale models.

For CL scale we use electronic controls instead of the timer and then the normal speed control, battery and motor so that we have throttle control. You can use Clancy Arnold's system and send the signal and ground down the flying lines. The older JR DSC radio control units also make a great system for CL electronic controls.

Fred Cronenwett

[Dennis Moritz]

Most of us do not compete at the highest level in stunt. We're enthusiasts. Not having gone professional. (Joke.) Nor are we flying for endorsements, sneaker contracts and the like or the PR. Most of us are still paying for props, fuel, room and board. I love going out there in decent weather sharing my dreams (still have them-- also a joke) and day to day upsets with the motley curmudgeons. IC works very well in the setting. Adding a familiar noise and stink (a smell from childhood-- smell is the most direct sense, going directly to the brain, in this case triggering all kinds of pleasant associations to the time when I was free of all manner of aches and pains). Improving my score in CL Stunt competition is a humorous idea. Forgoing the potential advantage of the electric buzz in no way a priority. 

[Dan Bregar]

Going back to the first post by Rafael, I sure can identify with what he said. Heck I was weened on Power Mist, and in my youth purchased Missle Mist by the 55 gal. drum. I to love the smell of  2 strokes running on glow fuel in the morning. And having participated in FAI T/R for a few years I have a soft spot for the diesel fuel aroma also. Yes those smells are wonderful to my nostrils. And I'm just talking about the smells. Then there are the SOUNDS !  The hearing loss I have today is a result of those sounds, but what fantastic sounds they were. Nothing like an open stack A Speed job or a 3 up Rat Race with KB 40s roaring ! And then there was the sound of a good AMA Fast Combat match with 2 honking 35s. And having recently returned to round & round flying I chose to go electric and will probably stay there. But I can stimulate my memories of years past when at the local club field acting as pit man for a fellow club member who is flying his glow engined stunter. I just have to remember to  keep a rag in my pocket just like I did for 50 + yrs. when I was flying glow, so I can clean the oil slime off my hands afterwards. Some of us maybe still fly ignition engines with their mystique and appeal. They were faded away by the time I came to the scene. I guess the reason was performance gains with the glow engines. And now it's electric. Rumor has it that there again is a performance gain to be had. Time will tell. It doesn't change the sounds and smells of my past that I loved so much. I still remember them. Only thing it does is eliminate the washing and drying of the oil soaked rags every so often. Don't think I'll miss that part. Just don't know what I'm going to do with all the fuel tanks I've accumulated, and then there are the glow plugs to sell off. But hey it was all fun. Way, way fun. And I'm still having fun with my electric stunters. So I don't have any problem at all, except me !

Dan

[John Fitzgerald]

One fear of investing in high tech gear like electrics is that in a couple of years, the batteries, charger, esc, etc technology would change, making the initial investment worthless, with parts either not available, or the whole works obsolete, like brushed motors are now.

An analogy would be if one bought a new PC about 20 years ago, which was obsolete in little more than a year.

I am simply waiting and watching, likely for a few more years.

[proparc]

First off, you guys are not looking at companies like O.S., who has invested heavily in their AX line of 2 strokes and even more so, in their 4 stroke blue heads. They even have a new line of 4 strokes that are a rip-off of the Saitos-imitation is. A complete revamp of your whole engine line cost serious moolah.

Saito is revamping their radial line, (verrry expensive to do) and is pushing relentlessly into gassers. Their Saito 40A, is becoming a hit in the RC car buggy market. A lot of cats seem to remember how Enya took care of them years ago, and are rewarding them accordingly. YS, which should be the hardest, hit, is still doing quite well with their 70,110, and 140 sport line and surprisingly, has a strong following in the RC helicopter market. The last F3A world championships saw the T-shirt contaminators kick serious booty with a 1st and 2nd place.

The Saito Forum at RCU has reached a million views and over 21,000 replies. The situation has gotten so bad over there, that the guy who started the Saito club forum, has abandoned it, and gone over to another Saito forum

Evolution Engines is doing a gangbuster business in RC and apparently, from what I can ascertain here, control line motors as well. Apparently, they also see money to be made, by jumping on Saito’s radial motor action, with a price-point line of their own.  Lets not forget the incredible popularity of the DLE and Desert Aircraft brand of motors, among the big plane crowd. The SAP Syssa 180 also has been very well received, and doing well in what is, a very competitive segment.  

There is a growing movement, albeit small right now, to converting electric RC ships to glow. More and more stick twiddlers are becoming enchanted by Senior, (our Classic) RC Pattern. This event is primarily I.C,. although they do allow electrics.  But that’s like showing up at a contest with a Nobler that has a tune pipe on it. It is also spawning quite a cottage kit business.

In our neck of the woods, so far, every time the top electric flyer has gone up against the top I.C. man, he has come up second. In addition, need I remind you, that our current World F2B Champion not only won with an I.C., but with a motor that was supposedly considered to be obsolete.

Going back to F3A, what is going to put the nail in the coffin for the I.C. motor, is not the motor, it is the prop. That’s right, if you have been following them as I do, then you know that the contra-rotating prop is being hailed as the next great advance in RC Pattern. Glows can’t turn contra props effectively.  That said, what happens in top-level F3A, does not translate to the sport flyer on Sunday.  He is too busy burning holes in the sky with his Saito 72 and 125’s.

Like in most things, economics will ultimately decide matters. If the cost of glow fuel continues to skyrocket, and the efficiency and cost of electric batteries continue to improve, then of course, the outcome is obvious.

[Mike Palko]

One fear of investing in high tech gear like electrics is that in a couple of years, the batteries, charger, esc, etc technology would change, making the initial investment worthless, with parts either not available, or the whole works obsolete, like brushed motors are now.

An analogy would be if one bought a new PC about 20 years ago, which was obsolete in little more than a year.

I am simply waiting and watching, likely for a few more years.

Electric power system do not become obsolete year to year regardless of what people say. In fact, the original power system I used at the 04 Nats may still be one of the best systems money can buy in 2012.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to convert to electric, I am just stating a fact.

Mike

[peabody]

I see where OS has released a bunch of electric motors....are they any good?

[Chris Wilson]

Looking at this laterally I see that the source of the power really isn't the issue here, its the way that its managed.

If any I.C. engine had an engine management system on board that approached half of what is available in cars then this topic may not be an issue.

And by 'management' I mean the total package -

1. Noise, come on now, we have still in use virtually straight through pipes or those abominations, tongue mufflers and no attempts at all at designing I.C. engines that reduce internal noise. (Speaking of noise, electric flight has proved to me that much of it really IS the prop and engine independent.) And liquid filled jackets as a dampener, don't laugh - it is possible to do.

2. Fuel metering systems run by chips much like Y.S. fourstrokes use, wouldn't be too hard to extend on those to get a far more constant run whilst operating further up the power curve. This would probably will mean smaller engine capacity could be used as a consequence to offset any weight penalty for the proposed management systems. Fuel pumps and injection, again all possible.

3. Ignition systems, obviously sparkers come to mind here.

But I personally do not want my engine runs 'managed' by anything active and much prefer the passive set on the ground and hope its right in the air type of thing.
In short, I would like to think the model hanging out there was wholly operated by me and not helped along with any 'automatic gearbox' of an engine.

If it does come to pass that electric is the only viable option open then I would most likely opt out of the hobby and go play an ultimate gizmo like an X box.
(If you can't beat electric based technology then you might as go the whole hog and really join it!)

[John Lindberg]

I was talking to a flyer recently, he switched to electric, he sold a brand new PA 61 for $600.00, so there is still a demand for these engines. 

[Rafael Gonzalez]

This post is one of those that one tends to say ..."So what? It is progress." But for those like myself, it creates a feeling of nostalgia. And, perhaps, of times fading away.

  Over this weekend, I was going over some of my relics that have not been active/flown in a while. I found many engines and planes(R/C) that are not "the click" anymore. About 7-10 years back, I was very active in the Radio Control facet of our hobby. It is amazing how it has changed in just 10 yrs.! Some of the items may not be recognizable to many CL flyers but to some that have done R/C it may. I won't reminisce and fall into nostalgia, but a few are gone or discontinued. Webra, Nelson Q500( supported in parts), MVVS Q500, YS 90, Dynamix carbs, OS 70 Ultimate supercharged, etc., are no longer being supported in the USA (I've searched...). The constant loss of private/public fields, noise complaints, etc., have made it very difficult to fly our models.  To join a club in addition to the AMA fees has become an investment. Those are in part why I have abstained from flying R/C. The other is Club politics. Believe it or not, much worse than BOM, PA Judging, Descriptions, etc.  

Alas! Here comes the advancement of the battery technology! It is incredible the doors that the LyPo/Ion power has opened. In addition, the amount of mixing the latest transmitter has available is infinite. Hence, incredible 3D in aircraft and heli machines. I understand now, why most hobby internet retailers have 75-80% of their advertisement aimed at the electric market. What is going to happen to internal combustion?

Yes, it is funny how the general hobby has evolved since the advent of the ion/lypo batteries. I hope that I, as I may be a dinosaur, do not see gas model engines become obsolete or completely replaced by electric counterparts. I LOVE the smell of Nitro in the mornings. I LOVE the Castor oil on my hands, I LOVE the sound of a 35K engine in FAI combat, I LOVE the sound of a "sparker". I do not get any of those with the electrics. While many now love the electrics, I do not like the buzzing sound as the airplane flies by. I can compare it in a simple analogy:
A gas grill Vs. A charcoal grill. It is convenient to have a gas grill, instant on and ready to cook; electric flight. Charcoal takes a while to come on and cook; gas/fueled flight. I like the flavor of charcoal cooking...

I have a friend that sold all his nitro stunt engines (without me knowing it at the time) for peanuts, and is replacing all the aircraft power with electric. He loves it!

What did I tell him when I found out you ask?

" They day you see me flying a CL electric, shoot me I may be rabid "  

 

 I may have been misunderstood by my poor writing... My objection is not the electrics vs. IC engines. Anyone has a choice, by all means, how they pursue their hobby. IT IS A HOBBY! 
My opinion is that, we continue being spoon fed by marketing/retail on what the current trend "becomes the new".
 
I am glad that we have choices. I am not happy that 75-90% of well known web/local retailers carry/advertise less of the "conventional identity" of our hobby (kits, IC engines, etc.). I can go to the local R/C club I used to belong to, and find that out of 10-15 guys at the field, most are doing e-helis/planes. Only 1-2 were flying IC. And that was 4-cy! The LHS's around here are carrying very little aircraft kits. A few, have a decrepit stock of RTF 3D, trainers, etc. A LOT of RTF electric stuff though...
I hope that we are not being led on the wrong path by profits for suppliers. Li is a very dangerous element. They claim that it is recyclable. That doesn't mean is Eco friendly. It meas that you dispose of it responsibly. . If one crashes or dents a Lipo/ion battery, it is not supposed to be used.  An IC using methanol/Castor poses no harm to nature. Both are generated organically. They claim that it is cheaper to run an electric as opposed to the cost of fuel.  Not if you need to replace them after 3-4 years, a crash or if the circuitry fails to stop the discharge.

I wanted to bring light into the "pushing" of our retailers. I agree with PJ and some others. The market is attracting more and more incompetence by the sale of R/C RTF e-kits and components. In the past, one could not sell/buy a RTF IC engine  kit without having to be in a club and join AMA. Now, anyone can get a e-kit with FSST. No need to check your Freq. No need to belong anywhere. Just go and fly. If the worse happens, it REFLECTS on ALL of us. We are all clumped together. R/C and everything else.

So, I am not against the electrics. I am against it being pushed by marketing and their claims. Look at all the pros and cons for whatever fancies you. Me, I am "old fashioned" and a puritan...

 

[Bob Reeves]

I was talking to a flyer recently, he switched to electric, he sold a brand new PA 61 for $600.00, so there is still a demand for these engines. 

But you can't get parts. A friend of mine bought a used PA 75 for allot of money only to discover it needed a P&L. Now all he has is an expensive chunk of metal.

[proparc]

I know that electrics are efficient but, try to find one that can match the pure romance of something like this.

[Andrew Borgogna]

I made the switch from gas to electric about a year ago, and haven't looked back since.  The only gas I fly is Old Time and Sparky at VSC.  (Uncle Mikey threatens to hang anybody with an electric).  I love to go to the park with my wife and fly all I want and nobody complains, in fact I have had a cop park and watch us with no problems.  People often stop to watch they actually smile and tell us how much the enjoy it.  You can romance all you want about gas but my future is in electric.  I too have a bag full of engines dating back to 1962 just collecting dust, I have given some away and sold or traded others. 

That's the long answer to the original question the short answer is "yes".
Andy

[John Desrosiers]

Hay Ralph you opened a big can of worms.

[Bryan Higgins]

Have you ever heard a Harley Davidson start up and drive away?  There is no other sound like it.

Have you ever heard a Supertiger 60 start up and fly away?  There is no other like it.

Electric is just another hobby and by the time you get all set up you have spent thousands.

[Howard Rush]

An IC using methanol/Castor poses no harm to nature. Both are generated organically.

So are cobra venom, shellfish toxin, and opium.  Castor oil is poisonous to the insects that moles eat.  That gives me something to do with all the castor oil I don't need anymore. 

[Mike Keville]

. . . The only gas I fly is Old Time and Sparky at VSC.  (Uncle Mikey threatens to hang anybody with an electric).

While there's a degree of truth in that statement, Uncle Mikey has had no say in VSC matters since 2003, when we turned the whole thing over to the local club.  It would be Lou Wolgast & Robin Sizemore with the hangman's noose....assuming they'd be so inclined. 

[Russell Bond]

Electric is just another hobby and by the time you get all set up you have spent thousands.

Rubbish!!!!
Motor $50, 4 batteries $200, charger $100, ESC $90, timer $12, prop $5.....that's it!!.... Under $500!

If you go higher quality....Motor $200, 4 batteries $360, (Charger, ESC, prop and timer are the same) ....... Under $800!

I switched from using a PA75 to electric and will NEVER go back!

[John Fitzgerald]

Rubbish!!!!
Motor $50, 4 batteries $200, charger $100, ESC $90, timer $12, prop $5.....that's it!!.... Under $500!

If you go higher quality....Motor $200, 4 batteries $360, (Charger, ESC, prop and timer are the same) ....... Under $800!

I switched from using a PA75 to electric and will NEVER go back!

What if one has 4 or 5 models? $2,500 to $3,000 then, unless the batteries are interchangeable between models?