Is the Lypo power taking over the internal combustion engine? Just a Thought....

[Russell Bond]

I have three models and I use the same type of motor and the same batteries.

If you have different models needing different batteries, it is only the batteries that are the extra cost.
Batteries are not expensive anymore and you only need the one charger.

If you have three models, the glow motor cost would be between $100 and $600 for each model.

[Igor Burger]

yes yes ... sound is important 

[Fred Cronenwett]

At the FCM contest in Muncie last year there was an interesting reaction from more just one person in the CL scale competition. I arrived with one electric model and two glow powered. another person had a mixture, Grant was completely electric. There were at least 2 or 3 other guys with electric power. After all of the competition was done several of us were saying that next year our entire fleet of models would be electric powered. While everyone will not convert to electric I have found that most people that try an electric model, then find themselves converting within 2 years to electric.

As for the scale sound I have yet to find a four stroke or glow engine that sounds like a radial engine, I don't worry about the sound realism.

I have several motors ranging in size from a 10 (3S) and the 60 sized motor that takes a 6S. By using a combination of batteries you can have a limited amount of batteries that can be used on all models regardless of the size. put two 3S together to make a 6S, or take three 2S and make a 6S, you get the idea. The batteries I get flown in almost all of the airplanes, I just make up different combinations to match the power needed.

All of my current projects and the ones I have planned will be powered by electric power and they will use the batteries I already have. I guess I have converted to electric power.

Fred C.

[Rafael Gonzalez]

Rubbish!!!!
Motor $50, 4 batteries $200, charger $100, ESC $90, timer $12, prop $5.....that's it!!.... Under $500!

If you go higher quality....Motor $200, 4 batteries $360, (Charger, ESC, prop and timer are the same) ....... Under $800!

I switched from using a PA75 to electric and will NEVER go back!

That is it? One electric engine = $500? For a good e-engine $800?

 

What about the electric replacement for an Evo 61, ST60, LA46, etc.? I won the Evo 61 in here and I can not be more delighted with it (as read in the posts from others) The performance and ease of adapting it to your style of flying is incredible.

 Well, it is good if many like that e-stuff... Some of us can't afford the expense and we still enjoy the conventional method (good old IC) I hope that we will always have the option to choose IC engines to power our projects. Did not intend to generate a can of worms, just a thought to bring a point of view...

 

[Frank Imbriaco]

For those who are interested in e- expenses, consider this.   I fly an  E-15 powered  Bob Hunt designed RD-1  profile stunter with two  4s 2700 Mah packs.  I also fly an SV-11 ARC  with two 4S 3900 packs . The  SV-11 is approaching 80 flights and the RD-1e is just shy of 50 flights.  Both planes  were new for the 2011 season. I am  also able to extend my day to 4 flights on the SV-11 by using the 2700 Mah packs; simply by reducing the flight time to 4:45 minutes. When I fly the 2700s in the SV-11, I use a  separate battery mount( simple 1/8" light ply sleave designed by Bob Hunt). I've added  stick-on weights to make it the equivalent  weight of the mount with the 3900 packs.

I know some guys want to fly 8 or 10 flights and that is possible with an on site charger or more batteries. But this  system spreads the expense between multiple aircraft  that are considerably different- one spans 48" and weighs under 40 ounces RTF, the other spans 60" + and weighs 68.4 RTF.  BTW, my next  ship( full fuse and projected to be under 48 ounces- RTF) for 2012 will use  the same 2700 packs and maybe I'll buy one more. With proper care , the battery manufacturers are saying "hundreds of cycles" . I have no reason to doubt this as my  cell evaluations  performed by my charger and Watts Up Meter are showing that they are just as robust now as when they were new.

[Brett Buck]

That is it? One electric engine = $500? For a good e-engine $800?

  I seem to remember Paul Walker telling me that given the lifetime of the batteries compared to how much glow fuel you might use, it turned out to be a wash as far as cost goes.

    In your comparison it's more like comparing the cost of the motor, batteries, etc. to an an engine and all the fuel you will use. Think of it as buying the fuel up front instead of over 3 years.

     Brett

[Tom Niebuhr]

Brett,
Does this mean that in the near future we can call you "High Voltage Brett"

[Howard Rush]

Don't underestimate the electrical conspiracy.  They already have a full-court press to convert Brett: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_converter

[Eric Viglione]

Yes Howard, but if done under duress, it may be more likely the Buck-Boost Converter scenario... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck-boost_converter

[Rafael Gonzalez]

Don't underestimate the electrical conspiracy.  They already have a full-court press to convert Brett: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_converter

 

Good one.

As they say in text grammar these days...

ROFLMAO

[Brett Buck]

Yes Howard, but if done under duress, it may be more likely the Buck-Boost Converter scenario... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck-boost_converter

    I stand in awe of the brilliant sh^H^H wit displayed in this thread.

    Brett

[don Burke]

As for the scale sound I have yet to find a four stroke or glow engine that sounds like a radial engine, I don't worry about the sound realism.

Fred C.

I have seen R/C scale electrics with onboard speakers that make the proper sounds of in-line and radial engines, following the throttle.

[Larry Cunningham]

I have seen R/C scale electrics with onboard speakers that make the proper sounds of in-line and radial engines, following the throttle.

Time to get some very good recordings of 2/4 break - it's only a matter of time before this trend hits CL Stunt! ;->

(those little heli gyros could provide a "maneuvering" signal to trigger it..)

We'll eventually have the Veneer of Stunt perfected.

L.

"To win without risk is to triumph without glory." -Pierre Corneille

[proparc]

Time to get some very good recordings of 2/4 break - it's only a matter of time before this trend hits CL Stunt! ;->

(those little heli gyros could provide a "maneuvering" signal to trigger it..)

We'll eventually have the Veneer of Stunt perfected.

L.

"To win without risk is to triumph without glory." -Pierre Corneille

Larry,
Don't forget the "Pre mixing" and "Conditions Set" like in F3A. Were also going to need "Split Deployed" rudders and "Variable Independent" incident stabs.

[Lester Nicholson]

I for one kinda' like this electric stuff, but at 65 and recently retired - I've a liftetime invested in r/c and control-line geared around glow motors. What to do - as I still have a bit of health I'm going to enjoy what I've collected and enjoy others in this hobby however they want to do it. There is room for all. The way I see it. This forum has introduced me to a lot of good folk that I'll probably never meet this side of glory and I appreciate you all.  Nick

[john e. holliday]

I am with Lester on this.  I still may wind up with an electric just for fun.

[Larry Cunningham]

It's ALL fun. We'd be total fools not to enjoy it.

L.

"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." -Ovid

[Rafael Gonzalez]

It's ALL fun. We'd be total fools not to enjoy it.

L.

"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." -Ovid

Concurred. 

I hope that I get to meet some of the folks in here someday... I've never stopped learning. Nor will I. Folks in here have contributed quite a many lessons for me. And I thought I knew a bit...

 

[Bryan Higgins]

Next we will have fifteen inch Woofers and CD Changers for you Electric Craft. 

Think I'll stick with my Nobler and Brodak .40

[Bryan Higgins]

All jokes aside, I belive there is plenty of room in this Control Line Sport for Combustion Engines and Electric Motors.
It is all about having some fun and helping a new generation understand what it is where so fastenated with.

[proparc]

Needless to say, there's room in the hobby for any kind of powerplant,(except for Larry Renger's-stuff just joking). I've got a little electric RC ship designed to use an AXI 30 size motor, that I intend to whip up.

My plan is to bust out the Futaba six AXI RC, in the morning when the wind is calm,and switch to my "big block" control line stunt ship later on in the day for a full day of raucous behavior. All in the same local!!

[Dennis Moritz]

No. Lipo Power is not taking over.

[Howard Rush]

No. Lipo Power is not taking over.

Reassuring, coming from a homeboy of the Instigator.

[John Fitzgerald]

Judging only from the stories I have read on here and other fora, there are models lost from electrics quitting unexpectedly, just like there are models lost from IC engines doing the same, so reliability may not be as much of an advantage as some believe.

[Dennis Moritz]

Mike Palko will set any of us Philly Flyers up with an electric system that works reliably, is durable and well matched to the chosen plane. Not cheap, but quality. Jack Weston so far is the only member who's taken him up on his generous offer of assistance. Jack's electric Vector performed well over the years. Better than his IC systems. Even tho the components used were an early iteration of electric stunt. Quality will out. . One fellow has a Chinese electric set up that works pretty well. Needing maintenance and assembly/reassembly now and then. Cheap by current standards. Mike's configurations way more reliable and durable. Tom Hampshire flies electric with Bob Hunt in public parks without a fuss from the public. Most of Tom's planes are still IC. I have heard that Joe Adamusko's next plane will be electric. That's it. But for the most part our club persists in its rituals, loyal to the IC stink and the frequently irascible temperaments. Ours and the engines that we like.

Dan Banjok's new Stunt War Wagon will be PA75 powered. Among Dan's menagerie of flyers is a Drone Diesel powered Flea Market Unnameable with balloon tires; a double sized BiSlob (all the dimensions double, so, is that 4 times the volume, or 8?) powered by, I think, a 2 cubic inch Supertigre; a pulse jet aluminum MIG. On any given fly day, Dan's van is stuffed with believe it or not winged creations. Almost all powered by (sort of) controlled explosions. A few powered by rubber bands. Last Saturday, Shawn and Ken, father and son, flew a number rounds of BiSlob combat. Fox 35 power. Ted Heinrich's planes are of dubious origin and appearance. All IC. Down the list. We have members who run diesels. At times some of us have been into 4 strokes. Lately some of our members have been seduced by the cult of Phil Cartier. All kinds of foamies. Big ones, little ones, powered by all manner of IC. Ranging from TDs, to Mark V Combat Specials, to serious Flora and Nelson engines.

Almost all of us fly in stunt competition at one level or another. We know electric is more reliable, easier to tune and adjust, not that much more expensive in the long haul, a big time plus with the civilian public. So. So what. We're not letting factors like that interfere with our fun.

[john e. holliday]

Judging only from the stories I have read on here and other fora, there are models lost from electrics quitting unexpectedly, just like there are models lost from IC engines doing the same, so reliability may not be as much of an advantage as some believe.

Reliability depends on the people and how they maintain their equipment.   I am lax at times on some of  my equipment.  So I can't blame the equipment, only myself.  I beleive I would have to be more concientious using electric equipment.

[Mike Palko]

Mike Palko will set any of us Philly Flyers up with an electric system that works reliably, is durable and well matched to the chosen plane. Not cheap, but quality. Jack Weston so far is the only member who's taken him up on his generous offer of assistance. Jack's electric Vector performed well over the years. Better than his IC systems. Even tho the components used were an early iteration of electric stunt. Quality will out. But for the most part our club persists in its rituals, loyal to the IC stink and the frequently irascible temperaments. Ours and the engines that we like. One fellow has a Chinese electric set up that works pretty well. Needing maintenance and assembly/reassembly now and then. Cheap by current standards. Mike's configurations way more reliable and durable. Tom Hampshire flies electric with Bob Hunt in public parks without a fuss from the public. Most of Tom's planes are still IC. I have heard that Joe Adamusko's next plane will be electric. That's it.

Dan Banjok's new Stunt War Wagon will be PA75 powered. Among Dan's menagerie of flyers is a Drone Diesel powered Flea Market Unnameable with balloon tires; a double sized BiSlob (all the dimensions double, so, is that 4 times the volume, or 8?) powered by, I think, a 2 cubic inch Supertigre; a pulse jet aluminum MIG. On any given fly day, Dan's van is stuffed with believe it or not winged creations. Almost all powered by (sort of) controlled explosions. A few powered by rubber bands. Last Saturday, Shawn and Ken, father and son, flew a number rounds of BiSlob combat. Fox 35 power. Ted Heinrich's planes are of dubious origin and appearance. All IC. Down the list. We have members who run diesels. At times some of us have been into 4 strokes. Lately some of our members have been seduced by the cult of Phil Cartier. All kinds of foamies. Big ones, little ones, powered by all manner of IC. Ranging from TDs, to Mark V Combat Specials, to serious Flora and Nelson engines.

Almost all of us fly in stunt competition at one level or another. We know electric is more reliable, easier to tune and adjust, not that much more expensive in the long haul, a big time plus with the civilian public. So. So what. We're not letting factors like that interfere with our fun.

I think what Dennis is TRYING to say is "do what YOU enjoy".  I forgot what thread I was reading after all of that!

[Dennis Moritz]

I was trying to describe what the Philly flyers actually do. Often sticking with weirdness, usually IC weirdness. It's not about practicality or the ultimate effectiveness of an approach.  (Mike is also a player here, flying non electric weird stuff, such as formation flying the pattern with Dan, using FP40 powered ARFs. Also, Mike has been known to gleefully wingover flea market Ringmasters straight in. Including the winningest Ringmaster of all time. Shocking! ) Honestly, I dunno why we don't make the switch to electric. Since in many ways electric works better. For reasons I stated above. Mike's first electric experiments were in the spirit of Philly flyers weirdness, by the way. His first attempt a nicad 1/2a project was a hoot. Very funny. More a whip flyer than anything else. The nicad Twister (I think it was nicad) however, did the pattern on shorter than normal lines. The Silencer his first Lipo bird was clearly competitive from the get go. Mike looks like an All American Norman Rockwell painting. A straight arrow. Do not be fooled. Madness lurks behind the blush. I assert that Mike Palko created his electric insurgency out of a love of the weird and novel. Now it is a model of practicality and effectiveness. Oh well. His electric Mustang, 19 points at the NATs. A top ten finisher in the big show. This is going too far... Then there is the issue of the best in stunt now doing like Mike...   Not us. Not the Philly Flyers. I'd burn my Philly Flyers hat first (or wash it.)   (Obviously this is serious business, I'm using emoticons.)   JOKING!

[proparc]

I was trying to describe what the Philly flyers actually do. Often sticking with weirdness, usually IC weirdness. It's not about practicality or the ultimate effectiveness of an approach.

This is IMHO, the best statement made on this thread. We do what we do, because it is FUN! Heck, motorcycles are dangerous. But, they sell a zillion of them, and if you've ever have ridden one, you'll know why!!  

Stunt flyers are an EXTREMELY conservative group, (don’t think so, look back to Al Rabe when he tried to break in with his Semi Scales) and get the willies when new tech comes along. But we always forget, that the genius imbedded in this event is, it always comes down to who wiggles the handle in the right way at the right time.

If I had to state the ONE major advance in powerplants from the time I first picked up the handle as child, it would be the transition to the Supertigre 60. A good ST 60 in the hands of somebody that knows what he is doing can stop still ANYTHING in the world today COLD.  After that, it just whatever floats your boat.

[William DeMauro]

A good ST 60 in the hands of somebody that knows what he is doing can stop still ANYTHING in the world today COLD.  .

Three years ago I would have agreed 10000% with that statement, then I flew an electric.

[bob branch]

I don't know, after flying electric for the last 6 years or so, I could not see myself going back down to something that only had the amount of power a ST .60 has. We have so much more available and it works so well, I would not go back.

But electric is fun for me as well. Its precision and duplicability from flight to flight just fits in with what I am willing to put up with. I don't deal well with things changing all the time. I do better with things that are consistant and that I can test against the same constant time and time again to find what detail works best for me. I cannot (emphasis on the "I" cause I know there are people who can) achieve that with glow. As to sound, I have yet to find a silent electric. They make a considerable amount of noise. Props are noisy. They create an amazing amount of the noise we associate with a glow motor. Between RC and CL I have over 30 glow motors. Only 3 will ever be run by me again and when their planes die, so will they. But I sure am having a lot more fun than I ever did before. I agree, you need to use what makes it fun for you.

bob branch

[Mike Palko]

A good ST 60 in the hands of somebody that knows what he is doing can stop still ANYTHING in the world today COLD.  .

Three years ago I would have agreed 10000% with that statement, then I flew an electric.

That statement may or may not be true, but it can still be said for a PA.

And, maybe that isn't even true. Like Proparc said it comes down to who wiggles the handle, not what pulls the plane.

IC will always be around unless the manufacturers of key components disappear (engines, fuel, glow plugs) and that is a long way off IMO. Even then I would expect cottage industries or hobbyists in general to keep them alive.

Mike

[Howard Rush]

A good ST 60 in the hands of somebody that knows what he is doing can stop still ANYTHING in the world today COLD.  .

Three years ago I would have disagreed with that statement.  Then an ST .60 won the World Championship.

[De Hill]

Electric power will probably take over competition flying in 5 or 10 years. (maybe sooner)

It will take a lot longer to take over sport flying. (and most people are sport flyers)

[Chuck Feldman]

Manufactures follow the money trail.  With Cl not even being 95% of the market we should not assume that there will always be IC engines produced. Keep an eye on our AMA rag and watch what is happening. Watch tower catalog has to. As we see more and more electric's we should see less and less IC'S. Notice that OS MAX is producing electrics. I will also point out that Elactrics are much easier to produce and the equipment to do it is less. IC engines are a work of art but very expensive to produce they also use more materials. I'm just saying.

[W.D. Roland]

Encourage electric flying. We may muster former VP and EPA hero Al Gore to our ranks!

Al doesn't care... as long as he can make $$$ of of all this and stop us peons from using his and his friends resources
everyone will be happy.

Spent several years doing the eletric thin in R/C. What a pain that was! except for the micro stuff where it allows
throttle control its not worth the efforts or hazard to property or environmental pollution that the mfg and disposal problems involve.

[Larry Cunningham]

The key to electric advances is mostly battery technology. The electronic stuff (MOSFET switches, microprocessor based controllers, etc.) is trivial and very low cost. As all the laptop and smaller portable computers (as well as other devices, including electric cars) drive battery technology, electric power will see the benefits. Notice also the military use in small model airplanes and other devices for surveillance and even tiny platforms for weapons. It all pushes on technology, which electric power will benefit from.

Personally, I hope we never see the end of small IC engines in this hobby; like almost everyone else I have an ingrained affection for them. But someday we may view IC powered stunters as another special interest class, like ignition.

But to me it seems obvious that electric power can and will ultimately be configured, programmed to provide the absolute ideal "stunt run", which I long ago concluded was the most important aspect of our competition. I know there is disagreement on such a statement, notice I said *I* had concluded this, and am not insisting (or even really caring)  that we all agree.

L.

"Aibohphobia: the fear of palindromes."

[proparc]

But to me it seems obvious that electric power can and will ultimately be configured, programmed to provide the absolute ideal "stunt run", which I long ago concluded was the most important aspect of our competition.
L.

This issue of programming for the ideal stunt run is a very valid one. For the most part, F3A is there already. I suppose not long from now, we will see the "laptops" in the stunt circle replacing the uniflow tanks. I personally have judged contests where competitors used electrics and quite frankly, there was no advantage or disadvantage, they still had to wiggle their hand!

In fact, I can tell you that one of the best engine runs I have ever seen, was from Leroy Black using what I believe was a Stalker 51 in a Spacehound. It was jaw dropping. To me, it looked as good if not better than an electric run, and we see electrics in Los Angeles ALL the time in RC-every single week.

I’ll admit I may be missing something here. If I can get a good run from my I.C. which I almost always do, and another competitor can get a good run from his electric, I am having trouble seeing where, (and this is important) the COMPETITIVE advantage is. In my mind, something like Igor Burgor’s bellcrank control system would have FAR more COMPETITIVE advantage than two different power devices spinning a prop.

In addition, F3A ships are very large and by FAI rules, have to be very light. In their case, electrics contribute signifantly to helping achieve weight by reducing structure, (they lose some of that because of battery weight). Also, Contra Props require tremendous torque virtually instantaneously, which are what electrics do. In a modern day FAI schedule, this torque has to be applied on and off very fast. Think of it as a hyper modern form of our old 2\4 break.

We don’t do that. We tend to run a much more constant speed. This makes it easier for us to accurate place our maneuvers. Also, we simply cannot leverage the advantage of an RC ship, because we can’t go faster than 55 MPH!! Our line length rules means we just don’t have the room to rock and roll like a 2M ship. Consequently, our powerplants become a wash. They simply cancel out each other.  This means, that I can show up with the most advanced Plettenberg motor, with the hottest Castle escapement, and another guy can show up with a low end EVO Sixty and kick my but bad. All he needs is a steady run!!

[50+AirYears]

Just an observation.  I think it's going to be a long time before the electrics replace IC.  Myself, I have something over 150 glow, 2 diesels, 4 CO2, about 20 Jetex, 1 Compressed Air motor, and several pounds of rubber strip for future projects.
A lot of the electric action I see are people at schoolyards and such flying on their own.  My RC club is getting an increase in smaller electrics, with roughly 15 of us either all electric, or mixed power, but for the larger planes, roughly what would qualify as .25 size and up, and helicopters, it is still either glow or the larger gas/oil ignition engines.  The people with the money are even going turbine.  Overall, It almost seems everything is increasing in number, not just electrics.  Heck, Fox never stopped making the classic .35, and still puts out CL versions of about everything up to their .74.  A few years ago, OS and Super Tigre brought out CL versions of their .34 and .51.  There are CL engines available through Mecoa.  This in spite of a prediction that CL was dying out.
I fly a lot of electric, especially the micro rc.  They're fun, touchy, and keep one on his toes.  The thing I don't like so much about electrics is the hastle of getting in a flight, taking the battery out, plugging in to a charger, and if it's the only battery I have for the plane, waiting 20-45 minutes to fly again, or with multiple batteries, installing another battery.  With glow, if I feel like it, I can land, taxi to the pits, refuel in a couple minutes, and be flying agoin for 15 to 30 minutes.  In general, battery management is a time consumer to me.  Reduction of flying time to be able to get more flights out of a battery is not a consideration to me.  I like to stay up till that funny paddle in front stops turning.  And as far as price, in my current situation (retired, fixed income, medical expenses, replacing even the currently mounted engines is not going to happen.  I've done cost/benefit analysis on the idea, and the numbers just don't work out.  In fact, I might end up switching completely to rubber and hand launched gliders rather than switch to all electric.
Someday, I might might try an E-CL,  when I finally get enough confidance to walk in a circle again.  It's slow, but it's getting there.
And Shorty's basement was selling a small controller for E-powering small rubber FF models.  Charge the battery, set the timer functions, turn on the arming switch.  Place the plane on the ground.  After the pre-set time, the motor starts, accelrates to take-off power, then when it;'s off the ground, drops back to a climb or cruise setting, then after the programmed time, cuts off.  Gotta get one for one of my old Comet kits one of these days.

[Ron Belcourt]

-  I guess it will if people keep the immediate gratification idealogy going. It takes someone perseverance to learn a new operating system and get it to work PROPERLY. How many sport or competition fliers regularly use Spark ignition in a winning stunt ship- excluding OTS, just the main event. Same idea easier to learn and apply the principles without undue drama.
 Personally I'll keep my ICs and continue a 30 year fling with elecs. I prefer the cleanliness and power of elec., but I love the sound of a good running Fox- none of this 2/4 stroke stuff that the engine was never ported for (just my opinion ). Still breaks, but low 2- high 2 with little to no burp.
 As for elec not being "allowed" in OTS, I beg to differ. Elec WAS being done in the fourties and a very brief summary was written in Frank Ziacs 1959-61 model aeronautic year book. First article was a letter by Fred Militky (resided in Germany). He described how he wanted to do elec free flight and found it lacking so started to experiment with control line (1940's). So I ask what is the difference between using electric now, with their improved motors and batteries, as compared to using modern ICs ( Magnum, OS, Enya, and even more improved engines) in an OTS contest? They were both around at the time in a primitive format and now both have improved immensely. No difference in my view.
 Later, gotta go home now,
     Ron

[W.D. Roland]

I know the Volt is taking over Tax dollars for each sold and then more tad dollars for training of Fire fighters and so on and equipment to deal with the special problems of lipos.
With out all powerful out of control government spending tax dollars the Volt would no be on the market.

For Micro R/C the Lipo has real uses!
Have had a few scary puff/smoke, no fire YET!

[don Burke]

Big article in the local paper about Li-Po fires associated with R/C "TOYS".  Seems like a local R/C car celebrity, Gil Losi, burned up his shop and a lot of stuff, didn't spread to his house, but could have.

Gist of the article being to make sure of three things, always:
       1. Charge in a "fireproof" container.
       2. Don't charge longer than specified.
       3. Don't EVER leave a battery charging unattended.

My bro had a bulged Li-PO so he took it outside away from the house and punctured it with a long piece of music wire.  What a JET of flame.  The thing was not hot or anything before, just bulged.

[proparc]

My bro had a bulged Li-PO so he took it outside away from the house and punctured it with a long piece of music wire.  What a JET of flame.  The thing was not hot or anything before, just bulged.

That would look so hot going through the pattern. Just imagine, your down by 3 points in the second round. You send a signal to your plane to puncture the battery during the overhead eight. A collective gasp goes through the crowd as a huge Jet of flame spews from the nose of your ship-the judges are awed out their socks. Your land your plane to a rousing ovation, and when the finals scores our in, you make a comeback win by 1 point.  

[don Burke]

OK, but a little hard to land a pile of ashes, more like sweeping up the debris!

[Chris McMillin]

As for elec not being "allowed" in OTS, I beg to differ. Elec WAS being done in the fourties and a very brief summary was written in Frank Ziacs 1959-61 model aeronautic year book. First article was a letter by Fred Militky (resided in Germany). He described how he wanted to do elec free flight and found it lacking so started to experiment with control line (1940's). So I ask what is the difference between using electric now, with their improved motors and batteries, as compared to using modern ICs ( Magnum, OS, Enya, and even more improved engines) in an OTS contest? They were both around at the time in a primitive format and now both have improved immensely. No difference in my view.
 Later, gotta go home now,
     Ron

Same thing in R/C Classic Pattern. The rules actually address electric all the way back to the 60's. Guys in the newly formed Classic groups were recently arguing about the engines allowed, pretty much it's been a default to "anything".
When I was a kid the C/L Stunt rules included Jets.
Chris...

[john e. holliday]

I remember Bob Watts up in Liberty MISSOURI flying a dyna jet powered stunt plane at the Blue Ridge Mall.   It was loud and fast.