2022 Nationals CLPA Coverage......

[john e. holliday]

I was not there but, I going to say it anyway.  The biggest control line entries of the NATS and run by the people of PAMPA.   Is this another way of the AMA trying to shut down control line flying?  Looks like if people were willing to stay over it should have been done, the flying of final flights and Walker Cup.  But it has been a weird week according to what I've read.  So no Walker Cup winner this year.

[wwwarbird]

 Viewing from the gallery, this totally sucks, all of you got screwed.

 As Matt mentions, your dedication and investments in large amounts of preparation time, travel distances, and incurred expenses all turns out to be worth nil to the AMA. This is just another glaring example that shows just how much the AMA actually cares about what you're all doing. It's the frickin' NATS for gods sake, their obligation to you should be to stick it out and see it all through, whatever it takes!
 Sad thing is, I'm not even a tiny bit surprised. I figured out a long time ago that what the AMA does best anymore is totally screw up everything they get their fingers in, along with ignoring everything that's ever mattered to the true hobbyists.

[Doug Moon]

The Walker Trophy has been awarded every year except this one.

From what I have heard all week is the forecast was always wrong. The weather was really all over the place. Then today's events caused the whole thing to go haywire. Lightening strikes shocking fliers in the morning rounds. Rain storms, heavy winds, then times of calm. There is no way the officials could have any idea of what was to come.

At the same time if everyone involved in deciding the outcome was willing to stay to get it done then it should have been attempted.

The current format takes 6 days to complete. This has been talked about for ages. 6 days is a very long time to get from 40 or so fliers to 1.

Monday is appearance and pilots meeting is held in the afternoon.
Tuesday is an off day for the pilots and judges. The paperwork is completed and ready for the next day.
Wed-Friday is flying.
Saturday is the Open flyoff and Jr,Sr, then the finals. 

I have been thinking for a few years now since Howard's most excellent program straightens and sorts things out once the final entries are in the system that flying could start on Tuesday.
Start the pilots meeting and appearance judging at 9 am on Monday. Finish it up around 12-1. Prepare paperwork that afternoon.
Flying can start on Tuesday and run through Friday. This leaves Saturday as an optional rain day. As it stands now there is no way to postpone our nats as there are other disciplines that come in a fly after us that will use or directly fly over the L-pad.

Just my thoughts on how to avoid this in the future. I do find it pretty amazing that the Nats has never been rained out or blown out before.

[Dave_Trible]

Doug some discussions are being had that align pretty close to what you are talking about.  It requires trying to work around the unofficial events as well since some fly-or volunteer to help-with both.  We need an option or two in our pocket to handle things as they change.  As it is we don't have many tools.  Stay tuned.....AMA doesn't control the CLPA schedule,  PAMPA and the ED do....

[Paul Walker]

  Stay tuned.....AMA doesn't control the CLPA schedule,  PAMPA and the ED do....
[/quote]

Unfortunately, they did...right at the critical point.

[Dick Byron]

I am so disappointed the weather did this to all. Whatever you decide to do remember one thing, the description of how the nats is run that is in the rulebook needs to be amended to spell out the cure you decide on. Someone learned that in 1981 art the Seguin nats.

[Ken Culbertson]

I really want to know why this decision was not left in the hands of the CD.  Apparently, there is some higher authority than the CD at play here or someone who thinks they are.  From the CD Guide - "The responsibility for the cancellation of an event rests with the CD. If the CD feels that the event cannot be flown safely, he/she may cancel it."  I have not read every AMA document so somewhere there might be something or maybe it is simply that we were on AMA grounds.  As a former CD I was always under pressure to keep an event running until there was absolutely no way it could be completed and even then, I would keep it open if even one pilot wanted to fly.     

My question here is WHY was the CD not the one making the decision and if there is a "man behind the curtain" calling the real shots, why was the CD not consulted.  I have a ton of questions, but it appears that our "powers to be" are on top of it.  I just hope they keep those of us outside the inner circles informed.

  To me competition is the reason I do this.  Returning to the NATS and qualifying is on my bucket list.  I don't have enough productive years left to expect more than that and I may not have enough resources to do it more than once.  This has altered my view of the AMA dramatically. It was already low.  PAMPA needs to step up.  I would be giving my rep an ear full but, since he was the one most screwed by this AMA Brain Fart, I doubt that will be necessary.

Thanks Sparky, for having this forum where I can vent.

Ken

[Dave_Trible]

  Stay tuned.....AMA doesn't control the CLPA schedule,  PAMPA and the ED do....


Unfortunately, they did...right at the critical point.

Well yes they controlled access to the site.....and when THEY wanted to go home.  We need to build in some time padding to have it all accomplished before Saturday afternoon regardless of what happens.

[Ken Culbertson]

Well yes they controlled access to the site.....and when THEY wanted to go home.

I truly hope that they didn't cancel the CLPA Finals because THEY wanted to go home.

Ken

[Derek Barry]

I truly hope that they didn't cancel the CLPA Finals because THEY wanted to go home.

Ken

It was absolutely canceled because one very selfish person was ready to leave. She announced it for everyone to hear. 5 minutes later, we were told that we were done.

Derek

[Steve Berry]

It was absolutely canceled because one very selfish person was ready to leave. She announced it for everyone to hear. 5 minutes later, we were told that we were done.

Derek

 

[mike londke]

It was absolutely canceled because one very selfish person was ready to leave. She announced it for everyone to hear. 5 minutes later, we were told that we were done.

Derek

Unacceptable.

[Paul Walker]

I stopped by the farmhouse at noon on Sunday. Talked to Yolanda. She and the AMA had nothing to do with it. She was told that the CLPA ED and the Controlline CD both agreed to stop it. From what John said, he wanted to go on so that leaves only one person who did this to us. I think you know who...

[Joseph Patterson]

  Stay tuned.....AMA doesn't control the CLPA schedule,  PAMPA and the ED do....


Unfortunately, they did...right at the critical point.

Dead on Paul!!
          Doug

[Bill Morell]

Instead of the veiled suggestions as to the culprit would someone grow a set and just say the name?

[Sean McEntee]

   I am curious, and maybe this is what Curt meant to ask, is this the only time the Walker Cup was not awarded, period? The trophy has a long, long history and after all these years I would guess that this wasn't the first time weather may have prevented it from happening.
  That would make a great article for a magazine, "The History of the Walker Cup for Precision Aerobatics."
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

     At the risk of throwing you under the bus, you have the resources in your basement for such an article

[Dennis Toth]

Just curious, was the site closed to all flying yesterday when the storms hit? Looking at the AMA Nats schedule there don't seem to be anything scheduled that would use the L Pads for Sunday so couldn't you just go the site and fly?

Best,   DennisT

[Derek Barry]

Instead of the veiled suggestions as to the culprit would someone grow a set and just say the name?

Anyone who goes to the Nats knows who we are talking about, but now that I have confirmed my suspicions through multiple sources,  I will give the name.

Brenda Schuette, single handedly shut down the 2022 US Nationals because she was ready to leave. As I understand it, she is a paid employee of the AMA and is supposed to be on site until the final rounds of all CL competition are complete. Her decision to stop us, before we were able to finish the top 5 and prevent us from having a Walker Cup Flyoff is unacceptable. I (and many others) will be asking the AMA to terminate her from the position she now holds.

Derek

[bob whitney]

a few years ago at one of the first racing contest of the year  the people running the contest had just run another week long event and were looking to go home.being our first contest a few of the racers were having trouble shaking out the cobwebs..the cd was trying to push us along as quickly as  he could so they could go home, we had flyers and workers a bit fried. .i went to the CD and reminded him that
 they were there to run the contest for us not the other way around .after a short while he agreed and apologized and we had a great contest.RAD

[SteveMoon]

What Derek said!

Steve

[Joseph Patterson]

Doug some discussions are being had that align pretty close to what you are talking about.  It requires trying to work around the unofficial events as well since some fly-or volunteer to help-with both.  We need an option or two in our pocket to handle things as they change.  As it is we don't have many tools.  Stay tuned.....AMA doesn't control the CLPA schedule,  PAMPA and the ED do....
n

Dave I agree about having options to handle things as they change, but ordinarily the top 5 and Walker flyoff have usually been able to be completed in the past. In the present case the "plug" was pulled apparently too soon by a couple of AMA officials that should not have occurred except until all possibilities had been exhausted for a Sat. completion - If we would have been allowed just a little more time we would not be discussing this. Kathleen and I left the L-PAD for home about 3:15PM. The wind velocity was beginning to to lessen as we drove out (weather was clearing). We stopped in New Castle, IN about 3:30PM about 14 mi. from the field. The wind was now down to about 5-15mph. I heard reports from a few people still at the field that wind velocity had lessened to about the same and got a even better later. So it was possible to completely finish last 2 rounds of TOP 5  /Walker flyoff in my opinion for what it's worth.  Initially I agreed with the decision, but just before leaving I felt that we should have waited at least another 1-1/2 hrs. As it happened we would not have had to wait that long since moderate flyable winds soon occurred. I'm confident that our PAMPA President and officials will get this resolved in a good way so this won't be repeated. I still congratulate the winner Dave Fitzgerald, and the other four great and truly talented fliers. As an aside all 5 fliers were in agreement to stay and finish the rounds as well as 4 judges. The flying was very competitive - these guys were close!!!
      Doug

[Dan McEntee]

Perhaps my last entry for now...  it has been decided the Walker Cup will NOT be awarded for 2022 since the fly off could not occur.

Yes-  two of the strangest Nats finishes ever- back to back.

   I read this yesterday just after Dave posted it, and even from my seat here at home , from what I could see on weather maps, I can't believe that they pulled the plug that early (noonish) if all contestants were willing to wait. At that point, I can't imagine ANYONE not being willing to wait until sun down if that is what it would take to go to completion. It's the Final Five and Walker Cup for crying out loud!  I feel sorry for the Top Five pilots and the Jr/Sr/ pilots, and to everyone there that was hanging around to spectate! I was ready to follow Dave's play by play from my computer and I'm pissed about it!
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Ken Culbertson]

If I were AMA President, which I will never be, but if I were, I would be looking into funding the travel expenses for the 7 fliers and three judges to some place where they can finish the contest as soon as possible.  I would start with Brenda Schuette, a name that will live in CLPA Infamy.

Ken

[Dave Rigotti]

The wind from AMA HQ weather station for Saturday.  Draw your own conclusion as 20/20 hindsight is always better.

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KINMUNCI43/graph/2022-07-23/2022-07-23/daily

[Joseph Patterson]

       Dave, couldn't look at the AMA wind SITE/Muncie Sat. weather site- Locked up my computer, but Sat. evening had flyable winds/people on site.
        Doug

[Michael Stinson]

Just a quick questions, who chooses the Control Line ED?  As I understand it, the same person is over all Control Line Events, not just the PAMPA event.  Also, who chooses the Team Manager for our World Cup Team?  Just wondering?

[Matt Colan]

What Derek said!

Steve

I second this!

[Dave_Trible]

Mike I'm not sure exactly.  In the case of the World Team Bill Lee did it for ......long time.  Those before that did the job until they chose not to travel any more.  I think that may end up being the person who raises a hand at the right time and volunteers.  It might not be much different for the Nats CD.  I don't think there are long lines waiting for the job.

[Trostle]

Just a quick questions, who chooses the Control Line ED?  As I understand it, the same person is over all Control Line Events, not just the PAMPA event.  Also, who chooses the Team Manager for our World Cup Team?  Just wondering?

It is a while since I was involved with such AMA matters.  As I understand the process, the AMA officialdom chooses/hires the Nationals Control Line Event Director.  That person oversees all Nationals Control Line events.  There is also an AMA Nationals Event Director, or there may be several since the AMA events span several months of activities.  The Nationals Event Director(s) operate under the auspices of the AMA officers and/or the AMA Technical Director.

There are four AMA FAI Control Line Team Selection Committees.  Each of these committees can have representatives from each of the 11 AMA Districts and are responsible for the determination of the team selection date and process for each of the four respective FAI CL events - F2A Speed, F2B Aerobatics, F2C Team Racing, and F2D Combat.  Randy Smith is the Chairman of the FAI Control Line Team Selection Committee for F2B. (This F2B Committee has nothing to do with PAMPA.  However, PAMPA does get involved with organizing, getting volunteers and conducting the team selection finals.)  AMA headquarters is responsible for the selection of the Team Manager for the entire US CL team.  This is normally done by the AMA HQ asking for Team Manager nominations from the current members of the US Team that will participate in the next World Championships.  I believe that the AMA then conducts a vote among the current Team members to name the Team Manager.  I also believe that the AMA might intervene in the final selection of the Team Manager.  I also understand that when a Team Manager is selected, that Team Manager can choose who his assistant will be.

Bill Lee many times has been the US CL FAI Team Manager.  He can clarify the manner of the Team Manager selection process better than I can.

Keith

[john e. holliday]

I must say I was there with Brenda and Melvin for their first Nationals.  Navy Carrier needed a person to do the scores, Brenda volunteered once she was shown what it took.  She did this until Bev Wisneuski(spelling) decided to retire from the position.  She took Brenda under her wing and trained her.   She has given up her vacation time to do this job ever since.  She has had to learn a lot during those years and had to make decisions some people didn't agree with like when one year, a person wanted her to change the schedule of a two events so he could compete in one and go home for the other.   But there were other people to think of so no change.  Each and every year she had some problems that crop up in which some people did not like her decisions until all facts were considered.   Did somebody approach her on the feasibility of staying another night which probably had not been thought of.   You know she has motel, food, auto transportation to think about.  Any body that has been event director for the NATS knows people in the events can not fly/practice without the event director or CL catagory director being available.  Now who in their right mind would have done the job she has done all these years.  Maybe PAMPA should have thought of this scenario years ago.  So I say we are all to blame for this and may it be a lesson.

[Paul Walker]

I am not at all sure but I think originally the idea was to have SUNDAY open as a backup day.  Seems that AMA COULD have at least offered such an idea.....provided some wanted to stay.   This one has sailed now..

Yolanda told me they do NOT schedule a contingency day for weather..or anything.  It WILL be completed on schedule. Period.

[Will Hinton]

Doc, I am sorry to reply to your support of her, but in nearly every nats I flew stunt, she was a big pain in the backside, and when I started judging c/l scale, she stuck with that scenario.  I even heard her tell a worker at the scale circles to "don't set on the tables, get off." who the %&^^$ did she think she was?
Her and I clashed a couple of times over her not knowing the changes in the morning start up times at the nats.  She didn't even keep up with the rules at the field! I have wanted her gone for several years and for several reasons.  She has a power hungry attitude.

[Ken Culbertson]

I must say I was there with Brenda and Melvin for their first Nationals.  Navy Carrier needed a person to do the scores, Brenda volunteered once she was shown what it took.  She did this until Bev Wisneuski(spelling) decided to retire from the position.  She took Brenda under her wing and trained her.   She has given up her vacation time to do this job ever since.  She has had to learn a lot during those years and had to make decisions some people didn't agree with like when one year, a person wanted her to change the schedule of a two events so he could compete in one and go home for the other.   But there were other people to think of so no change.  Each and every year she had some problems that crop up in which some people did not like her decisions until all facts were considered.   Did somebody approach her on the feasibility of staying another night which probably had not been thought of.   You know she has motel, food, auto transportation to think about.  Any body that has been event director for the NATS knows people in the events can not fly/practice without the event director or CL category director being available.  Now who in their right mind would have done the job she has done all these years.  Maybe PAMPA should have thought of this scenario years ago.  So I say we are all to blame for this and may it be a lesson.

She may have been a great worker in the past but this was totally out of bounds.  Someone has to get it through these "officials" that this is a sport/hobby and they are here to serve us, we are not there to serve them.  Her job was to be there till they were done, not they could stay as long as she felt like it, and it was John Paris place to tell her when that would be.  From what I read and have heard, he wasn't even consulted.  The purpose of the NATs is for us to select our champions, period.  Denying us that really means that they have no purpose. 

Maybe part of the problem is this - there are 50 people listed on the AMA website under staff.  How many are dedicated to the most important function of the AMA (the NATs) - 1

Ken

[Brett Buck]

       Dave, couldn't look at the AMA wind SITE/Muncie Sat. weather site- Locked up my computer, but Sat. evening had flyable winds/people on site.
        Doug

   The weather was unflyable at 2:00-2:15, and, there was still active lightning - I saw a few strikes north of the site as I was driving back to 2:00 pm meeting. It was bad enough that I don't think you could take off and fly around level.

     It was nearly ideal by around 3:30, with intermittent gusty periods the rest of the day.

     I will also admit that around 2ish,  after looking at the radar at a line of storms all the way back to near Chicago, I expressed the opinion it was unlikely to get better for long enough. But, we were all willing to wait if necessary (although by that point I was pretty well mentally checked out). That option was vetoed, apparently.


    Brett

[bill bischoff]

Since I was not present for what took place, I cannot and should not comment on it. That being said, I have been the CL racing ED at the past six NATS, and the Carrier ED a couple of times before that. I have never had a problem with Brenda Schuette. She has always done or provided what I have asked for quickly and efficiently. That is a FACT.

What if the weather remained unflyable for the remainder of Saturday? Perhaps PAMPA should have a contingency plan for this type of situation, other than hanging Brenda next to Mike Pence.

Bill Bischoff, NCLRA President/ CL Racing Contest Board member/ Contest Director

[Doug Moon]

Doug some discussions are being had that align pretty close to what you are talking about.  It requires trying to work around the unofficial events as well since some fly-or volunteer to help-with both.  We need an option or two in our pocket to handle things as they change.  As it is we don't have many tools.  Stay tuned.....AMA doesn't control the CLPA schedule,  PAMPA and the ED do....

Hello Dave,

The unofficial events cannot take precedent over the official events. The others are great and fun and people love them but we take a chance every year by leaving Tuesday open that something like this will happen. Plus if we start flying on Tuesday and finish on Friday it gives EVERYONE an extra travel day to get home.

Seems like a no brainer to me. But that's just me.

[frank williams]

Reading the comments and looking at the weather data, I think under these circumstances the prudent call was made by Brenda or however was the final word. 

If I had come to judge this year like I thought about for awhile,  I would have checked out of my room on Sat. morning, confirmed my evening flight from Indy, and would not have been able to stay to finish the Walker flyoff at 6 or 7 in the evening.

I have been vocal in the past about throwing away rounds on Wednesday or Thursday,  where we could have come back after the wind lays and have flown to 9pm.  Alternatively we could have squeezed in three rounds on Thursday, or maybe throw an early morning Friday set.  But that’s mid week, when everyone has a room for the night and was not planning on skipping town at the end of the day.

But, on Saturday, that’s different. (If compressed to end on Friday, it wouldn't be any different.  People would schedule to end their stay on Friday)

It sounds to me like the practical call was made.

[Ken Culbertson]

Reading the comments and looking at the weather data, I think under these circumstances the prudent call was made by Brenda or however was the final word. 

If I had come to judge this year like I thought about for awhile,  I would have checked out of my room on Sat. morning, confirmed my evening flight from Indy, and would not have been able to stay to finish the Walker flyoff at 6 or 7 in the evening.

I have been vocal in the past about throwing away rounds on Wednesday or Thursday,  where we could have come back after the wind lays and have flown to 9pm.  Alternatively we could have squeezed in three rounds on Thursday, or maybe throw an early morning Friday set.  But that’s mid week, when everyone has a room for the night and was not planning on skipping town at the end of the day.

But, on Saturday, that’s different. (If compressed to end on Friday, it wouldn't be any different.  People would schedule to end their stay on Friday)

It sounds to me like the practical call was made.

You are correct for the theory behind all of this but you missed the part where all 5 fliers and 4 judges agreed to wait it out and fly if they could.  Everybody else would be not essential and could leave if they had to.  Even if it was just the nine of them it would have been better than this.  I don't know all of the details but if Brenda made that call knowing full well that all essential personnel wanted to stay and finish, there was still time on the clock and a weather forecast that clearly showed an opening window, then she made the wrong call.  It was her job to know all of these things.  I am in agreement with Doug that having Saturday available as a backup and revising the schedule to be finished on Friday is a great idea.  There are a lot of things that could be done to shorten the week but this thread is not the place for that discussion.

Ken

[Dave_Trible]

Hello Dave,

The unofficial events cannot take precedent over the official events. The others are great and fun and people love them but we take a chance every year by leaving Tuesday open that something like this will happen. Plus if we start flying on Tuesday and finish on Friday it gives EVERYONE an extra travel day to get home.

Seems like a no brainer to me. But that's just me.

From my view of what's being discussed by the PAMPA EC I don't think they are going to let the unofficial events control what happens to the AMA events.  However it had been said and acknowledged that quite a few folks come to fly BOTH, and some only to fly unofficial.  They are trying to accommodate that.  Most scenarios right now would have us starting Qualifications Tuesday with Pilots meeting Monday evening or perhaps Sunday with Classic/N30/OT  Sunday or Monday.  On the other end of the week (we proved last year) that it's doable to have Top 20 and Top5 / Walker Cup on one day.  It would give us at least one extra day plus cut the hotel a night if we didn't need to use the extra day ( we could also get a qualifying day washed out as well at some point.).

[Frank Imbriaco]

Go NAVY !

[SteveMoon]

What Dave just said makes good sense. Shortening the total length
of the contest, time wise, would allow a cushion should something
go wrong and extra time be necessary.

Steve

[Doug Moon]

What Dave just said makes good sense. Shortening the total length
of the contest, time wise, would allow a cushion should something
go wrong and extra time be necessary.

Steve

I am wondering one thing about calling the contest. If someone had to leave why couldn't they have deferred the rest of our contest to someone who is going to be at the AMA for rest of the day? I mean the flyers and judges that were left know exactly what to do and how to do it. Just a thought.

If you really want to compress the contest do this.
Monday is app and pilots meeting.
Tuesday flying starts at 7:30 and fly all 4 qualifying rounds. 2 on one circle then 2 on the next circle after lunch. Based on avg with ADV thats 60 flights per circle!! That's alot and a ton of work and a big undertaking.
Wednesday fly top 20 and top 5
Thursday J S and then the flyoff.
Friday those who want can stay and fly the unofficial events.

This would be a huge amount of work in a very short time but it is a way to compress the schedule should major weather be on the way etc...

 

[Derek Barry]

The AMA needs to believe that we will be there from Sunday through the following Saturday.  If we give up a day, we will never get it back. Then we will right back where we are now, with no buffer day for bad weather. 

[Doug Moon]

The AMA needs to believe that we will be there from Sunday through the following Saturday.  If we give up a day, we will never get it back. Then we will right back where we are now, with no buffer day for bad weather.

Well we can still call for the full week but be ready to make provisions on the fly should it need be.

Just a thought.

[Matt Colan]

Doing the top 5 in the evening right after top 20 might make for some of the best flying. The weather in the evening in Muncie is usually spectacular. It would also allow the buffer in case Friday night is a washout, and we could fly Saturday

Just a thought

[peabody]

Derek is right....is PAMPA schedules an extra day the Academy will gobble it up! They will compress the whole schedule.

Matt makes a good point....the weather after 4:00 is usually Stunt Heaven....many return from their naps and put in several flights....

I think Top Twenty , Top Five anf the Fly-Off for the Cup could usually be accomplished in a single day.

HOWEVER, it would just shorten PAMPA's use of the "L" pad....still no backup day.

[Motorman]

You could schedule something for the back up day that doesn't really exist, like combined class winners free style. That would hold the day open.

Motorman

[Dave_Trible]

Saturday: World Cup team practice.

[Joseph Patterson]

    I don't like the idea of permanently making all in one day Top 20/Top 5/walker cup fly-off. It would require about a maximum of 41 judged flights. In my opinion the quality of judging would probably suffer. Over half our judging corps are older men. You couple our aged judging corps with hot humid weather then optimum results would suffer. Heck, judging that many flights is equally rough on younger persons. We should only have to resort to this on an emergency basis. I understand that most competitors would probably like to wrap it all up in one day because each competitor would be flying just 2-5 flights total depending on where they finished in qualifying.
    Paul W in his talk to Yolanda said AMA does not have contingency dates set aside for events, if I understand his thread. I believe if we give up that Sat. date resulting in a shortened contest, then we could be boxing ourselves in reducing our options. If we keep the the schedule as it is we at least have the option to do a Friday all in one if the weather on the Saturday is reliably assured of being unflyable due to thunder cell, high winds,  or powerful down pours. Also, if the weather does not permit flying on Friday, or only part of the TOP 20 gets done, we would still have Sat. to combine everything.
    Now if the plans in the future do in fact  involve shortening the contest by a day, then Tuesday and Wed. would be the start of OPEN/ADVANCE, and Thursday would Top 20 semi-finals. Friday would be Top 5/walker cup fly-off as has been mentioned here earlier. I'M being kind of remedial here. Now I see where you could use Thursday and Friday like I used Friday and SAT. above. The CL/N-30/OTS events would have to be moved to Monday, because some of these fliers compete in ADVANCE and OPEN.
     I really believe the schedule should remain the same.  The problem as we all know was AMA's premature decision to end competition when less than another hour of waiting would have made completion possible. Also, there was enough gloom and doom forecasting that probably helped push AMA's decision, as well as a few other reasons influencing the final call.
      Doug     
      Doug   

[bob whitney]

First let me say ,dont ever give up any day at the Nats. one year we (Racing ) did not have our normal fox racing on the beginning Sunday of the nats .the next year we found out that our circle had been given to the Scale group and we never got that day back.

i may P--s of a few people but need to speak my piece as you all have.i have known Brenda and Melvin longer than most of my stunt Family.i worked 4 years under her as Racing ED and raced under Merlvin when he was Racing ED,she always made sure we had what we needed to get our racing done .more than once we flew past the 5 oclock dead line until dark to get finished .

her job is to over see ALL controlline events at the nats not just Stunt.

i was not there and not privi to the whole thing as to weather Brenda made a Bad decision. Yes the decision affected a lot of people .i hope to hear her side of it .if she made a bad decision than shame on her ,but if we look back over her years as CD she has done a very good job for U/C over all.  RAD