2020 Nats Opportunity

[Brett Buck]

Maybe like our local race tracks the distancing is up to the individuals.  I asked one gentleman why the masked.  He stated he had a cold and did not want to spread the germs.  I thanked him.  The people in the concession area using masks and gloves.  As stated before if you are sick stay home or protect other prople with mask and gloves.

    The WHO and others are reporting that there is essentially no transmission by asymptomatic cases, so, if you are sick, stay at home, otherwise, we should be going about our business.

    Brett

[Dave_Trible]

I see today WHO is largely walking that back.  It was a single person’s reply to a reporter’s question that got picked up and run away with.  They still say it’s mostly unknown and that people can have very slight symptoms for a few days like muscle aches or diarrhea and not realize yet they are infected.  In any event we will or should know tomorrow what the EC says- don’t know what time the meeting is or if it will even be in- person.  I’m not sure if AMA folks are working from home still.  I know the museum and HQ are still closed to visitors.  Pretty sure that’s state law under the disaster declaration.  I’m sure the EC will also have to consider since the ‘opening’ the cases in the last few days are climbing sharply again from outside Indiana where people are coming from.
The tent is my idea so you can blame me if you wish.  We know most transmissions come from being indoors with many other people.  This way we are really still outdoors .  There is no way to guarantee the 180 or HQ will even be permissible for use at that time and I’m sure they wouldn’t want to deal with sanitation before and after it it was.  I realize some, mostly the younger of us aren’t too concerned .  Many if not most of the older ones are and have said so in conversation with me.  If we make no effort to try to be more safe then you can bet they would stay home.  Understand it isn’t  ME making any rules.  It IS my responsibility to try to make sure that we follow whatever the state and AMA asks us to do.  So far all that AMA has said is they would furnish sanitary hand washing stations out on the field.  Planning or saying much more until the issue has been decided would be a waste of time.  If they say’go’,  then I’m sure they will look at it.  And,  there is a crucial month of time in between where the situation could change rapidly.  As of right now most ‘outdoor entertainment ‘is still closed or greatly curtailed there.    So...we wait.

Dave

[Andre Ming]

    The WHO and others are reporting that there is essentially no transmission by asymptomatic cases, so, if you are sick, stay at home, otherwise, we should be going about our business.

    Brett

Was it Pete or Roger that said that?

 

Andre

[Howard Rush]

Was it Pete or Roger that said that?

Hope we don’t get fooled again.

[Chris Cox]

Looks like any hope for myself or any other Canadian’s is over. Just heard the borders will remain closed to the end of July (and very likely longer).  Not yet confirmed, but word on the street is it will be announced in the next day or two.  This also means the loss of one of your judges.

[Dave_Trible]

Now that IS sad news Chris.  We will miss you both.........Maybe you should get a green card......:-)).   We got to get this figured out and get back to 'normal'.  I hadn't even thought about the border being closed.

Dave

[Joe Ed Pederson]

Dave,

Do you know at what time today they'll announce "go" or "no go" on the Nats?

Joe Ed Pederson

[Dave_Trible]

No Joe Ed,  we are watching for the white or black smoke from HQ.

Dave

[Joe Ed Pederson]

Dave,

Well let us know which it is when it happens.   I can't see Muncie from here.

Thanks,
Joe Ed

[mike londke]

No Joe Ed,  we are watching for the white or black smoke from HQ.

Dave

It's a go from AMA.   

[Paul Walker]

Saw the clip on FB. On, WITH EXTRA SAFETY PRECAUTIONS.
What ever that is....
 Chad didn't say what that was.
They would provide as time goes on.

[Steve Fitton]

Saw the clip on FB. On, WITH EXTRA SAFETY PRECAUTIONS.
What ever that is....
 Chad didn't say what that was.
They would provide as time goes on.

Extra precautions include contestants having to wear MOPP 4 gear while on site

[Paul Walker]

Extra precautions include contestants having to wear MOPP 4 gear while on site

I, for one, will not wear a mask in 90 degree weather. PERIOD.
If that becomes a requirement, I will not attend.

[Brett Buck]

I, for one, will not wear a mask in 90 degree weather. PERIOD.
If that becomes a requirement, I will not attend.

   But Paul, how will you signal your great virtue and show symbolic solidarity with our heroic health care workers?

       No masks  and no nagging about Social Distancing. Let's see the rules, explicitly. Otherwise, I am not hauling my butt 2400 miles and missing 2 full weeks of work, just to get screeched at by a legion of newly-minted safety monitors and self-styled infectious disease experts. I can get that at home.

     Brett

[Matt Brown]

   But Paul, how will you signal your great virtue and show symbolic solidarity with our heroic health care workers?

       No masks  and no nagging about Social Distancing. Let's see the rules, explicitly. Otherwise, I am not hauling my butt 2400 miles and missing 2 full weeks of work, just to get screeched at by a legion of newly-minted safety monitors and self-styled infectious disease experts. I can get that at home.

     Brett

Completely agree, you just say it so much better than I could!

Matt

[SteveMoon]

I agree with Paul; I will not wear a mask in order
to compete.

Steve

[Brett Buck]

I see today WHO is largely walking that back.

    Of course they are. How are you going to keep people living in fear (and incidentally, paying a lot of attention to doctors) if there is nothing to fear? 

    The entire premise of locking up *everyone* was due to asymptomatic cases transmitting it to everyone else, like 300,000,000 Typhoid Marys. If that's not a problem, then, this is no longer a "unique and special case unprecedented in human history", and all you do is quarantine the people who get sick, while the rest of the world is unaffected, just like every other epidemic.

  We certainly can't have that.
    Brett

[Paul Walker]

Just talked to Yolanda.
There will be no mask requirement. Period.
The precautions do not affect us much. Registration is moved from the main headquarters to the white Nat's house out back. There will be lots of hand sanitizer around for use.  That's all she knew of. AMA is trying to craft an e-mail to send to everyone explaining these issues.

So it is somewhat acceptable.

So Dave: What are the the entry levels currently for Advanced and Open?

[Doug Moon]

I wear a mask all the time for work when I interact with customers.  It doesn't protect me it protects those around me from me should I have something going on.  It's almost a respect thing.  If go near someone who doesn't wear a mask then they don't give a crap what they could be doing to others around them.  At the same time if I go near a customer who isn't wearing a mask then I tend to not wear one either.  I tend to let the customer drive that part of the interaction.  But we do naturally keep our distance and shaking hands is out of the question. If they prefer I wear one I comply. If they don't then I don't.  It's not that big a deal and only comes into play during close contact.  Flying with a mask on would be very stupid as it does restrict airflow and it will be hot on the Tarmac.  That would not be in the best safety interest of the contestants.   

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

Chad from AMA on facebook:  =68.ARDVdpV3fjqFx-Dw9ouhyuchRurwwUaB0NxVysxPgZu8i0lAtXxQooWTMDc9v1kyZ8vcBAwTFtwPdz60NagOsEQoYqRjWYezhGpsZOhcfJu4lqbrjcNv_ZiUQP_ZiGE-Xi1tbnlcpegj2KP_rkKDdu2rCZIonEQFM37SWEp6a7X_kE4_knNyX70fOgEReLQ16nDNbj8NXIKUwhJuSmp8r6yrXYxjQV5ROHwjMbLVIVsSFmkw29EACYOpqXezIISNw8kLSBBDYy0Q_i4NFA76ydktNUzFbx3PdCwRl2Q8rP65KQ1_kbblWfGbzGk2c9k0&__tn__=K-R]https://www.facebook.com/colleenpierce62/posts/10217300056281925?__xts__[0]=68.ARDVdpV3fjqFx-Dw9ouhyuchRurwwUaB0NxVysxPgZu8i0lAtXxQooWTMDc9v1kyZ8vcBAwTFtwPdz60NagOsEQoYqRjWYezhGpsZOhcfJu4lqbrjcNv_ZiUQP_ZiGE-Xi1tbnlcpegj2KP_rkKDdu2rCZIonEQFM37SWEp6a7X_kE4_knNyX70fOgEReLQ16nDNbj8NXIKUwhJuSmp8r6yrXYxjQV5ROHwjMbLVIVsSFmkw29EACYOpqXezIISNw8kLSBBDYy0Q_i4NFA76ydktNUzFbx3PdCwRl2Q8rP65KQ1_kbblWfGbzGk2c9k0&__tn__=K-R

[Dave_Trible]

Doug that is about where I am personally. 
Paul according to the AMA site right now ( and it might change some in the next couple days with this decision) we have:
Open. 17 of which I know two will not be there.
Advanced.  17

I will ask again for any help we can get to judge, tabulate and judge/direct unofficial events.  We have lost a few and will be spread very thin.  I also have yet to nail down appearance judges.  Consider helping out.

Dave

[Paul Walker]

Doug that is about where I am personally. 
Paul according to the AMA site right now ( and it might change some in the next couple days with this decision) we have:
Open. 17 of which I know two will not be there.
Advanced.  17

I will ask again for any help we can get to judge, tabulate and judge/direct unofficial events.  We have lost a few and will be spread very thin.  I also have yet to nail down appearance judges.  Consider helping out.

Dave

Are you asking me to judge appearance?
Would love to...as long as you don't mind me flying as well. Just entered!

[Dave_Trible]

Well that’s not kosher.....but maybe something over in the unofficial side of things....

Dave

[Joe Ed Pederson]

Dave,

I'll be arriving for the Nats on Saturday (the 11th) and leaving on Wednesday the 15th around noon.

I'm entered in Beginner Stunt only.

After flying beginner stunt, I can help with pull tests and running scores from the judges to the tabulators each day until noon on Wednesday.

Looking forward to it,
Joe Ed Pederson
Cuba, MO

[Dave_Trible]

Look me up when you get there Joe Ed.  I’m sure I’ll have things to do.   I’m short one or two pull testers and will need a small crew to tape up cracks on the LPad etc.

[Joe Ed Pederson]

I'll look you up when I get there.  Happy to help with anything but judging.

Joe Ed

[Dave_Trible]

Just FYI another Open contestant has decided to stay home- and our Head Judge- due to Covid safety concerns........

Dave

[Paul Walker]

Just FYI another Open contestant has decided to stay home- and our Head Judge- due to Covid safety concerns........

Dave

If there are not more than say 25 open contestants, I will likely drop out as well. I will not drive for 3 days for the size of a local contest.

[Dave_Trible]

Sort of the point I made weeks ago (and addressed with the AMA EC).......water under the bridge now.  John Paris has stepped up to be a judge.  That does cut one of the pre-entries but very welcomed.  I believe I will not hold a general PAMPA meeting.  Many of the board members will not be in attendance so we will hold an on-line meeting to meet the statute in the ByLaws and the points of the meeting will be posted on the PAMPA website.

Dave

[Matt Colan]

Currently waiting on work schedule developments for the month of July to know whether or not I can make it. Fingers crossed!

[Dave_Trible]

Chad has reached out to us for a meeting tomorrow.  Maybe we will know more about how they plan to address things. 

Dave

[Derek Barry]

Just registered.

Derek

[bob whitney]

is classic and M30 sep or combined

[John Paris]

Classic and N30 have traditionally been separate.  Registration is showing it this way as well.

[SteveMoon]

Just registered

[Paul Walker]

Just registered

Plane repaired already?

[Joseph Patterson]

is classic and M30 sep or combined

   Hello Mr.Bob, to answer your question CL and N-30 are two separate events flown together as one flight order/2 rounds. It use to be that a competitor had to choose between the two events, and could not fly both. Before I had to back out of this years NAT's I was going to let pilots fly both events if and only if they used different aircraft for each event. This was done to hopefully get more interest in N-30 and give more opportunity to competitors. However, someone else will be handling these events this year and it will be up to them how these events will be formatted. I appreciate Dave T very much for running the NAT's and hope someone will lend a hand. It's really pretty easy to do these three events. The fliers always made things so easy for me. Most of the time I was just in the way! We always had people show up and just start doing anything to help. 
       I'm going to send Dave some material to use for these events in a few days if needed. I'm always available if someone needs to talk to me. Dave has my contact info., as well as this forum.             
       Thanks,
                  Doug     

[Dave_Trible]

Doug thanks for this.  As it so happens I just got off the phone with Bob Brookins.  He will be running the Classic/N30, OT., and as usual the Intermediate this time.  I want to thank him and you Doug for all you always do.  We may need to get you and Bob together on stuff.....He did ask that folks wait until the Monday pilots meeting to sign up for these events and not get tangled up with Intermediate on Sunday.

Dave

[Dave_Trible]

Another announcement:  Wes Eakin will be stepping in as Head Judge for 2020.  Thanks Wes!

Dave

[Paul Walker]

How many advanced/open judges do you currently have?

[Dave_Trible]

Paul I believe we are at 7-8 right now.  I haven't touched base with all of them recently so will be doing that in the next couple days to confirm they are coming.  We have lost three from what we started with.  Another,  I will likely have to use as an appearance judge.  I don't know about a rule saying a judge couldn't judge both appearance and be a flight judge but don't think we've ever done that that I know of.  I may choose to do so if there are no objections among the pilots.

Dave

[jfv]

That was done last year with the Smith brothers I believe.

[Dave_Trible]

Thank you.  I didn’t remember that.  I’ll be on that meeting with AMA on my lunch break.  I’ll report what I learn this afternoon.

Dave

[mike londke]

Paul I believe we are at 7-8 right now.  I haven't touched base with all of them recently so will be doing that in the next couple days to confirm they are coming.  We have lost three from what we started with.  Another,  I will likely have to use as an appearance judge.  I don't know about a rule saying a judge couldn't judge both appearance and be a flight judge but don't think we've ever done that that I know of.  I may choose to do so if there are no objections among the pilots.

Dave

Sent you a PM Dave.

[john e. holliday]

Paul I believe we are at 7-8 right now.  I haven't touched base with all of them recently so will be doing that in the next couple days to confirm they are coming.  We have lost three from what we started with.  Another,  I will likely have to use as an appearance judge.  I don't know about a rule saying a judge couldn't judge both appearance and be a flight judge but don't think we've ever done that that I know of.  I may choose to do so if there are no objections among the pilots.

Dave

Dave you could maybe get some one from one of the other events to help.

[Dave_Trible]

I sat through the first hour of the meeting and never got a word in or really learned anything.  It’s still going on but I had to get back to work.  They never got off the first topic.  The SIGs that pulled out are razing smell because some within their  groups went around them straight to AMA to say they will go ahead and run the events.  Apparently AMA said OK..........  I will learn more later.

Dave

[Dave_Trible]

Dave you could maybe get some one from one of the other events to help.

There may be a couple places we could do that but most jobs I have need experienced help at this level.

[Stuntflyn]

Hi Dave - Wayne & I did judge both appearance judging and flight judging last year, so I know you won’t be setting any precedents by doing that.

Wayne and I are not likely to attend this year, it is a personal decision just as it is for everyone. Because of who we have interaction with, Wayne manages and has close proximity to many elderly people in his work managing a nice commercial condominium down on Bayshore Boulevard & I run a business where many people rely on me, we are not willing to add to the risk we already face for getting infected by Covid-19 by going to the Nats. It could have a large and potentially deadly effect on those we work with. Closer to home, Wayne’s mother-in-law is in her late 80’s and I am in close proximity to my almost 90 year old brother-in-law. We are not thinking of ourselves, as with everyone, we are dying to hit the contest trail, but our feeling is there is always next year when hopefully we have a vaccine.

If it were just Wayne and I, we probably would still not be making the long trip. Driving through states, staying in hotels and eating in restaurants just to arrive at a location where people have gathered from all across our great land doesn’t seem like a great idea at the moment to us. To be frank, after reading the AMA Presidents statement, I am surprised the Nats were not cancelled, lots of liability issues. Like I said, attending this years Nats is a personnel decision. Like Paul, we go to the Nats because of what it is, the greatest contest in the world. Clearly that is not what it is going to be this year, probably just a watered down version dangerous to get to. I know how far it is from Florida, which is a drop in the bucket compared to those who come from out west and beyond.

There seems to be a somewhat pervasive and cavalier attitude here towards Covid-19. Not seeing much discussion about how to run the Nats contest safely, only comments about can we have it. Since States reopened, the Rona is now peaking and raging again in both Arizona and Florida. For those who think themselves immune, ask the 20 year old girl who just had to have a double lung replacement or the 24 year old man who just died yesterday in Florida because of the virus. Arizona intensive care facilities were at 90% yesterday and are in danger of being overwhelmed. The virus is likely to get worse in the coming months before we start to see any more improvement in the situation. The virus likes cold and colder months will be here before long.

For those of you who go, we wish you Godspeed and safe travels, please do your best to stay safe. We love all our flying buddies and would be heartbroken if something happened to anyone. Again, this is a personal decision, so to each his own. For those of you who go, have a great time.

Jim Smith

[Dave_Trible]

Jim thank you so much for your post.  We will miss you but lets hope for a better next year.  Yes the impression I got from most 'inside' AMA was they really expected to cancel.  The Executive Counsel voted otherwise apparently due to some last-minute euphoria about things re-opening.  What some of the SIGs were saying in the meeting was that polling of their members showed at or nearly 100% wished to cancel.  Thats partly why some were so upset about certain ones that went around them to AMA.  They don't believe those 'renegades" can pull together enough help to do it properly.  AMA may still pull those plugs given the heat from yesterday.
We will have a Nats.  I've made contact with most of the crew and so far I've learned of only one more who is planning to stay home.  I so very much appreciate the couple who have just stepped up to help us.  Yolanda has told me AMA will announce that they will waive late fees for at least a while longer so if you are on the fence but are willing to take a chance then get signed up.
There are many different ideas about the virus with little hope of making everyone look at it the same way.  To me it's just science and medical data without any outside spin on it.   I'll admit is scares the heck out of me.   I have to live in the public each day and get uncomfortable being around my four grandkids at times who we try and protect.  My daughters are tied in knots about how and when school will happen this year for them.  I'm just asking everyone to give respect to others wishes on the issues.  I have told the crew that the only major stipulation I will ask (that I know of yet) is that the Appearance judges should have gloves to handle all the airplanes.  We know the  virus can hang around  on hard surfaces for up to 72 hours.  We don't want anything passed from airplane to airplane to airplane to person.
Our meeting and processing will be a little out of the ordinary.  We won't have the big screen or any of that.  You will present yourself with your plane at the tent.  You will be checked in at that point rather than by roll call during the meeting.  The airplane will be weighed and put into the possession of the Appearance judges.  I anticipate the meeting will be short and over a while before the judging is finished so you'll just hang out a bit.  You will be handed your flight order and circle assignments as you enter to pick up your airplane.  We will be starting with only two or three circles (TBD).

Dave

[Stuntflyn]

As far as those Sigs who have members who are trying to usurp the authority of their Sig, they should be brought before a disciplinary committee and either expelled or suspended from their Sig. Members always agree before ever gaining membership to any Sig that they will abide by the bylaws. Members who run off Willy Nilly trying to subvert their duly elected officials decisions leads only to chaos and damage to the Sig. Just ask PAMPA, I think we all learned our lesson on that one and do our best to put it behind us.

Shame on AMA for exacerbating a bad situation by agreeing to let these people subvert their organization. It smacks of a money grab and in my humble opinion AMA would have been far better off appealing to their membership for a donation to help offset the loss of Nats events. I would have gladly donated, but right this second , I wouldn't give them a plug nickel.

Dave, in the unfortunate event you should ever be faced with a decision like that, I have every confidence you would do exactly as I would and bring these members before a disciplinary committee. PAMPA has decided to move forward with our event, so whether I agree or disagree, I will abide by our by-laws and support our executive councils decision.

Again, for all attending this year, have a safe trip and a good time.

Jim Smith