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Author Topic: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......  (Read 9887 times)

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2020, 10:15:10 PM »
Not all there.  Too many comorbidities, hungry ACE2s

 Yikes.  :(
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2020, 08:50:26 AM »
Raw scores are pretty meaningless, Ordinals (rank in standings) are not.  It would be better if we added the ordinals from the two days and advanced the lowest 20.  In case of a tie for 20th then add the raw scores to break the tie.

This could even be used for individual judges which would eliminate the never ending frustration of one judge being 50 points away from the guy standing next to him/her.  (Excuse me her/him/other.  I need to maintain my PC ranking.).  It worked in other sports and I have tried it back in the 80's for Stunt.  It worked there too.

Ken
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Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2020, 09:52:05 AM »
Quals

Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2020, 10:09:16 AM »
Advanced final, Expert Semi-final.

Offline pmackenzie

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2020, 10:53:30 AM »
Did Brett make an error in his second flight, or have a technical problem?
He dropped a lot from the first one, and I don't see that as a "trend" in the other guys.
Most actually went up a bit.
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2020, 11:04:18 AM »
Why did the Alimov's pass in Advanced? 

Bob Hunt

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2020, 12:07:50 PM »
Did Brett make an error in his second flight, or have a technical problem?
He dropped a lot from the first one, and I don't see that as a "trend" in the other guys.
Most actually went up a bit.
I have an unconfirmed excited utterance that he did 4 loops.

Ken
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2020, 12:27:39 PM »
I have an unconfirmed excited utterance that he did 4 loops.

    Straight from the horse's, er, mouth, I did 4 inside loops just like yesterday. That's about a 50 point error.

    Brett

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2020, 12:29:20 PM »
Hey guys,
I am Aussie and have no clue how competitions are run, or scored.

It seems to me they take the 2 best flights and add them together for a qualifying score. Is that right?

If so shouldn't Sparky be 1044?
Craig

So Peter,
you could be 5th in your group and not qualify, but may have a higher total than the top 4 in another group and yet you still miss out?

  Yes. During qualifying, it's not a single contest, it is 4 separate contests held at the same time. You only care how you do against those in your contest, you don't care about and can't compare to those in other contests. This washes out the effects of "high" and "low" judges, since the raw score means very little in stunt.

     For today (Top 20 day), there is only one Advanced contest, and one Open contest, everybody flies for the same judges and highest sum of scores sets the flyoff and sets the 6-20th places.

   It is run this way to manage 100ish contestants fairly in a reasonable time, without killing the judges or expecting unreasonable stability from them. 20 people, you can run one a pair of circles for maybe 6-8 judges in a morning.

    Brett

Offline James Holford

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2020, 12:34:02 PM »
Why did the Alimov's pass in Advanced? 

Bob Hunt
Im curious myself

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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2020, 12:50:43 PM »
Why did the Alimov's pass in Advanced? 

Bob Hunt
Bob they decided to drop flying their 'joint' airplane and get ready for Junior/Senior.

Dave



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Offline pmackenzie

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2020, 12:51:34 PM »
    Straight from the horse's, er, mouth, I did 4 inside loops just like yesterday. That's about a 50 point error.

    Brett

Not much else to say about that, other than "suckage factor: high"   :(
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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2020, 01:15:46 PM »
Saturday flight orders:
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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2020, 01:16:26 PM »
....
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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2020, 01:17:09 PM »
...
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2020, 01:18:06 PM »
Bob they decided to drop flying their 'joint' airplane and get ready for Junior/Senior.

Dave



(Yes, we will entertain your rules change proposal.......)


Huh?

Bob

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2020, 01:20:24 PM »
Orestes in his “I made the cut!” shirt.
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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2020, 01:37:06 PM »

Huh?

Bob
Both boys were flying the same airplane in Advanced class (legal).  In Junior and Senior they have to comply with the BOM rule so each had a profile he built for those events.  I guess the ‘joint’ airplane is their dad’s.  So their strategy was to forget the joint airplane and get some fights on what they will fly tomorrow.  There were no rules issues- but having myself drawn a short straw this way once,  I would have liked to have been able to ask the next two guys down if they’d like to move up into those empty slots since no effort to fly was made by the holders in those positions.   Might be nice to discuss a rules change.

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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2020, 01:44:17 PM »
Okay, got it now. Yes, if they had no intent to fly in the Advanced finals they should not have taken up the two slots that two other fliers would have loved to have. I like the Alimov's, but they need to be educated in Nats courtesy.

Bob

Offline James Holford

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2020, 01:46:14 PM »
Okay, got it now. Yes, if they had no intent to fly in the Advanced finals they should not have taken up the two slots that two other fliers would have loved to have. I like the Alimov's, but they need to be educated in Nats courtesy.

Bob
I share this sentiment.

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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2020, 01:57:28 PM »
I disagree. They made the finals fair and square.  Whether they decide to fly, not to fly, or to put in extra loops is up to them. 

A rules change for something that will probably never happen again is unnecessary on two accounts.   
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2020, 02:01:13 PM »
    Straight from the horse's, er, mouth, I did 4 inside loops just like yesterday. That's about a 50 point error.

Look, Brett, I know you admire the JCT and all, but that's not the way to emulate us.  One of my most amusing Nats memories is Ted carrying PTG's airplane off the circle, grinning and surreptitiously extending four fingers. 
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2020, 02:28:16 PM »
I behold that the tabulation program won't support replacing people who drop out of a contest phase with people who didn't make the cut.  When a phase (qualifications, semifinals) is over, the program automatically populates the next phase, prints pull test sheets, scoreboards, and scoresheets.  Replacing somebody who drops out would be nontrivial.

So make that three reasons not to change rules. 
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Offline James Holford

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2020, 02:35:35 PM »
So the next two fliers in line who would have qualified if the other 2 hadnt flown just get snubbed?  Sounds kind of crappy in my opinion.

If there was no intent in progressing... then why even fly?

Id be pissed if I knew I could have qualified if someone who did qualify ahead of me happen to change their mind and now I dont get the Q spot by default because of a rule. 


 Just my opinion is all.

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2020, 03:01:46 PM »
I wasn't my intention to stir the nest.  When this happened to me 7-8 years ago I brought it up casually and got opinions on both sides there as well.  In my mind it isn't about discrediting anyone and certainly no rules were bent here.  Those positions were won fairly.  Each day begins a new contest-and the contestants didn't get to the contest.  Others did.

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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2020, 03:13:48 PM »
Okay, I just received a call from Mike Alimov and he explained the situation from his point of view. Both of his sons were to fly his (Mike's) plane in Advanced. Perfectly legal according to the rules. It seems in practice the plane was crashed by one of his sons, meaning that the other son didn't have an airplane to fly. However, they each had another plane that they built themselves and those planes were being held in reserve for tomorrow's Junior contest.

Perhaps a rule proposal allowing only one person to fly a "borrowed"plane in Advanced might be in order. I've seen local contests in which a number of fliers use the same plane. If it is a good one, then they normally place highly in the contest. Again, not illegal, but it can be demoralizing to others who don't have the option to fly the superior plane.

There is no easy "right" answer to this. We want to encourage participation, but we also want it to be fair. The Alimov's did nothing wrong. It is just a weird situation that has brought up a lot of questions. Howard got it right. I got it wrong.

Later - Bob Hunt 

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2020, 03:15:12 PM »
Here are unofficial Friday results (thanks, Derek).  Another interesting Nats process.  On Friday in Open, for example, half the guys fly on circle 3 for the first round, and half fly on circle 4.  Then the guys who flew the first round on circle 3 fly the second round on circle 4 and vice versa.  Each guy's circle-3 score and circle-4 score are added to determine his score for the day.  Circle-3 judges remain on circle 3 for both rounds; circle-4 judges remain on circle 4 for both rounds.  I refer to a first round and a second round, corresponding to the time period in which each happens, but it's really one big round.  The columns in the scoreboard in the picture posted above today seem to correspond to the temporal rounds. The report below shows scores in columns corresponding to circles.  The ambiguity is my fault: Paul Walker warned me about it. 
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Online frank williams

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2020, 03:16:17 PM »
Try this .... a qualifier had to go home Thursday evening because of a death in the family.  The CD moved up the 21st flyer into the top twenty for Friday's flying. 

Overnight a front comes through and the winds approached 30mph for Friday's flying.  As it turned out the 21st flyer was a pretty good wind flyer and almost made the cut for the top five. 

Potentially you could have had the winner of the Nats being someone who didn't even make the top twenty cut.  It was a nice gesture, but with unintended consequences. 

As it was, after Fridays flying everyone below him actually received a placing one less than they really should have.  Not a big deal ... but still ...

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2020, 03:21:31 PM »
Okay, I just received a call from Mike Alimov and he explained the situation from his point of view. Both of his sons were to fly his (Mike's) plane in Advanced. Perfectly legal according to the rules. It seems in practice the plane was crashed by one of his sons, meaning that the other son didn't have an airplane to fly. However, they each had another plane that they built themselves and those planes were being held in reserve for tomorrow's Junior contest.

Why didn't they fly their Saturday airplanes in the Advanced finals?
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #79 on: July 17, 2020, 03:25:09 PM »
Try this .... a qualifier had to go home Thursday evening because of a death in the family. 

I'd never do that unless it was mine.
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #80 on: July 17, 2020, 03:34:44 PM »
Why didn't they fly their Saturday airplanes in the Advanced finals?

Mike said that they didn't want to risk losing their AMA planes before the Junior contest. Again, their choice...

Bob

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2020, 03:54:10 PM »
Perhaps a rule proposal allowing only one person to fly a "borrowed"plane in Advanced might be in order. I've seen local contests in which a number of fliers use the same plane. If it is a good one, then they normally place highly in the contest. Again, not illegal, but it can be demoralizing to others who don't have the option to fly the superior plane.

Or are too cheap to buy a Yatsenko plane.  This is a consequence of not giving appearance points to people who build their own planes. 

Mind you, I've done this myself in Profile in the NW Regionals, an event with no appearance points.  Three of us flew Gordan Delaney's wonderful twin Pathfinder.  But you gotta admit that that airplane is too cool not to share.
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Offline James Holford

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #82 on: July 17, 2020, 03:54:37 PM »
Thats all fully understanding.

  My concerns is allowing alternates to fill the 2 spots of those who had to back out. Giving the next 2 top scoring guys who didnt initially qualify a chance at glory.  Surely I should have worded my previous post better.

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Offline Mike Alimov

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #83 on: July 17, 2020, 04:23:02 PM »
Why did the Alimov's pass in Advanced? 

OK, I have about an hour before we head back for the evening practice, so.... from the horse's mouth:

Coming here, we never anticipated making the cut in Advanced (not to mention posting the top score on Day 1 of the qualifying).  The only reason I enter the boys in Advanced is to keep them focused on flying throughout the week, between Intermediate on Sunday (which Luca finally won this year and will never attempt to re-enter) and Junior Open the following Saturday (!).  We did this last year upon the suggestion of another father of a Junior, and it sure makes the week go faster.  I have no idea where the boys belong skill-wise.  One has flown stunt for less than a year, and another for about two years.  In April-May of this year, they were flying so poorly that I was ready to throw in the towel and take up ice kurling or something else. 

So, the initial plan was to fly a [shared, borrowed] ARF until the end of the Advanced qualifying, and switch to their BOM-compliant airplanes on Friday to prepare for Saturday.  Making the cut in Advanced was a complete surprise for us, but we would have gone on to fly in Advanced Finals if not for the loss of the plane at 7:15 AM due to completely dead air, at the grass practice circles [notice: I didn't have to make this fact public but doing it anyway...  Say, if you are wearing a catheter, had an accident and missed a flight... would you tell everyone why?]
We had just enough time in the morning to notify the officials of the withdrawal.  Everything was within the rules, and I don't feel like my boys have to apologize to anyone for making the cut (does anyone?), or for pulling out -- for whatever reason.  I do apologize for not having the time to notify our fellow flyers of the changes in flight schedule.

 There are many reasons why a person may have to suddenly withdraw: a tragic family event (God forbid), a physical/health condition (Mr. Hunt), loss of an airplane, etc. etc. etc.  Neither do I feel that those spots should be occupied by those who didn't make the cut.  If you want your shot at the "glory" (and all the money and women that come with winning Advanced), fly better and qualify like everyone else.  My 12-yr old Gabe flying 10-12 ft bottoms made the cut with a Brodak ARF built in 3 days the week before the NATS.  It's not that difficult.  The difference between 21st ranked Advanced and the winner of Advanced is immense.  Just watch Dorin (2020) or Will DeMauro (2019) fly and you will feel very inadequate.  Trust me, if you can't make the top 20 (or 16 this year), you have no chance to "get lucky" and win Advanced on Friday.  Not even close.

To everyone else who wonders why we do things the way we do them:

I encourage you to attempt the following:
- Teach a kid to fly a 400-500 point stunt pattern (bonus: try two kids or more);
- Take them to the NATS and spend a week flying every event possible, with enough airplanes to last a week;
- Do it all in a Ford Escape or similar size vehicle;
- Pass a sanity check upon your return home;
- Share your experiences with everyone here.

I see people proposing rule changes. That's fine by me. We will have to comply  (as if BOM wasn't enough). So would everyone else.  That would be a real boon for the event that already sees a rapidly shrinking event participation.  I know what stunt will look like in a few years; I've driven past Speed and Racing circles all week, only to see 4-5 cars parked and not a Junior in sight. 

We've had a mixed experience over the past two years.  We've had people telling us how wonderful it is to see two energetic, polite young men pursuing stunt in this day and age, and offering help and advice (thank you all!).  But we've also had people questioning the legitimacy of just about everything that could be questioned (our line connectors, safety thongs, the AMA number, the way we arm the ESC (yellow XT60 plug from HobbyKing, by the way), etc, only to discover that everything is within the rules.
  We may or may not continue with this if it gets to be too much, I don't know yet.  But I do know that on a national scale this is not very conducive to nurturing a talent pool to draw from when it comes time to send someone to represent the USofA at the World level. Not a rant, just food for thought.

Gotta go now. 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 05:05:04 PM by Mike Alimov »

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #84 on: July 17, 2020, 04:39:24 PM »
Mike, Those of us who know you know very well nothing nefarious went on and that there could never be an attempt by you or your sons to twist any situation to your advantage.  Please do not allow any of this to put a bitter taste in your mouth toward stunt.  You and your two young men are what stunt is and should be all about.  Hope to see you at the FCM next month!
Will
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #85 on: July 17, 2020, 05:24:58 PM »
If you want your shot at the "glory" (and all the money and women that come with winning Advanced)
Excellent essay.  I think I agree with all of it and I envy you having someone to pass the torch to.

From your snipped above I find the reason so many of my fellow fliers encouraged me to enter Advanced when I returned after 35 years in the wilderness.  Several of them had won Advanced at the Nats and they never told me (and I suspect their wives) about the rewards! LL~

Ken
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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #86 on: July 17, 2020, 05:41:03 PM »

  My concerns is allowing alternates to fill the 2 spots of those who had to back out. Giving the next 2 top scoring guys who didnt initially qualify a chance at glory. 


I do not think there should be any consideration to adopt/change the rules that if someone has to drop out of the finals rounds, then the next person in line from the qualifying rounds could be able to move up.  That person or those persons who dropped out earned their position in the rankings during the qualifying rounds, in this case 15th and 16th.  If somebody else gets to move up in the standings because someone could not fly or decided not to fly the final rounds for whatever reason, there is no reason that a lower placing qualifying pilot should "earn" the position vacated.  It is meaningless and there is no justification for a non-qualifier to claim he placed in the finals when he did not fly well enough to do so in the first place.  If that is allowed to happen, good for the non qualifier to have bragging rights that he placed in the finals, but what happens to the position of the "true" qualfier?  This would mean that the true qualifier no longer has claim to the position that he actually earned during the qualifying rounds.

Keith

Offline James Holford

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #87 on: July 17, 2020, 05:42:48 PM »
I do not think there should be any consideration to adopt/change the rules that if someone has to drop out of the finals rounds, then the next person in line from the qualifying rounds could be able to move up.  That person or those persons who dropped out earned their position in the rankings during the qualifying rounds, in this case 15th and 16th.  If somebody else gets to move up in the standings because someone could not fly or decided not to fly the final rounds for whatever reason, there is no reason that a lower placing qualifying pilot should "earn" the position vacated.  It is meaningless and there is no justification for a non-qualifier to claim he placed in the finals when he did not fly well enough to do so in the first place.  If that is allowed to happen, good for the non qualifier to have bragging rights that he placed in the finals, but what happens to the position of the "true" qualfier?  This would mean that the true qualifier no longer has claim to the position that he actually earned during the qualifying rounds.

Keith
Fair enough.

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #88 on: July 17, 2020, 05:49:25 PM »
Well said Mike and Keith.
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #89 on: July 17, 2020, 06:38:18 PM »
"( If you want your shot at the "glory" (and all the money and women that come with winning Advanced)"
I'd like to know who ran off with my women and where all my money is?  All I got for that week was about $1500 poorer!!!
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Offline James Holford

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #90 on: July 17, 2020, 07:01:39 PM »
Didnt think Id hurt so many feelings with an opinion..... alrighty then.

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Jamie Holford
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Online Trostle

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2020, 07:28:16 PM »

Didnt think Id hurt so many feelings with an opinion..... alrighty then.


Who's feelings got hurt?  Just because some might have a different "opinion" than yours does not mean their "feelings" got hurt.

Keith

Offline Mike Alimov

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #92 on: July 17, 2020, 08:42:52 PM »
How did Stephen Daly not win the Best Junior Trophy in Advanced? He finished 9th above the other Juniors that chose not to fly.
I think it's the same kind of mystery as Sam Londke receiving the Best Junior award at 2019 Brodaks, even though Luca Alimov was the top scoring junior all week. We just decided to let it go at the time. Kids like receiving trophies, however meaningless they might be.

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #93 on: July 17, 2020, 11:59:12 PM »
So, what about Joe G? 488, then an out of the park 570?  I'd guess an engine failure.

And what about Crist, low score in round 1 advanced, and then the highest score (I think) in round 2?


David

Online Dave_Trible

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2020, 02:51:52 AM »
So, what about Joe G? 488, then an out of the park 570?  I'd guess an engine failure.

And what about Crist, low score in round 1 advanced, and then the highest score (I think) in round 2?


David
Joe had a split fuel line and with an attempt.  Then he also changed the plug.  After that it somehow ran short of fuel on the first official.  Just a hard luck flight.   I don't know about Crist but he sure seemed to have a good week and finished well. 
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Online Dan Berry

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #95 on: July 18, 2020, 07:12:27 AM »
Both boys were flying the same airplane in Advanced class (legal).  In Junior and Senior they have to comply with the BOM rule so each had a profile he built for those events.  I guess the ‘joint’ airplane is their dad’s.  So their strategy was to forget the joint airplane and get some fights on what they will fly tomorrow.  There were no rules issues- but having myself drawn a short straw this way once,  I would have liked to have been able to ask the next two guys down if they’d like to move up into those empty slots since no effort to fly was made by the holders in those positions.   Might be nice to discuss a rules change.

Dave

Holy Moly. That's just not kosher.

Offline Richard Imhoff

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #96 on: July 18, 2020, 07:36:07 AM »
What about last years Nats when the airplane that was presented at building 280 for advanced  by them was NOT flown in advanced. Instead they used a SV11 ARF, the boy should have been disqualified for that infraction as the judges were never told of the swap, different weight for the pull test, appearance points not earned, Dad knew and it was his fault not the kids. I was fixed after the judges were told but it should not have happened at all. It just seems that to many controversies abound with this guy, and it's not the kids fault. So how did he fly advanced at last years Nat's and win Intermediate at this years Nat's ???

Just my opnion.
Dick Imhoff  AMA 58502
 
Combat, Racing, Stunt, and big time fun flyer, and Maybe a bit of carrier.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #97 on: July 18, 2020, 08:46:17 AM »
Do we need a teapot for this tempest? Z@@ZZZ
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #98 on: July 18, 2020, 08:49:25 AM »
What's going on at the L pad now? Anybody out there to report the action?

Best,   DennisT

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: 2020 CLPA Nationals Coverage......
« Reply #99 on: July 18, 2020, 08:50:03 AM »
  Dave Trible is probably exhausted by now, but I sure wish I would have asked him to give one of his great play by play calls of the action for the final five flights today. I think I liked those better than video. All in all, from my standpoint it sounds and looks like he did a great job as Event Director  under some very difficult circumstances. Congrats to all who made it there and managed to have a good time!
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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