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Author Topic: Using old silkspan  (Read 3626 times)

Offline Jim Scott

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Using old silkspan
« on: November 11, 2015, 08:24:06 AM »
I need to finish an all-sheeted plane and would like to use dope and silkspan.  It's been a long while since I've done this and need some advice.

How do I remove the folds and wrinkles in the silkspan before applying?  Considering ironing or possibly wetting and laying out flat to dry before applying. Some of what I have is quite wrinkled from being badly rolled.  This just needs to be a utilitarian finish, not a prize winner.

An option is is 3/4 oz fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin, which I have.  Something lighter and simpler is my goal.

Thanks, Jim

Online Gerald Arana

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2015, 10:24:57 AM »
Jim,

I dampen (not wet) mine on an old towel and lay it on. Smooth as many wrinkles out as you can (probably all of them) and dope the edges. When dry all the wrinkles should be gone. Then dope the rest of it, but not the edges. Once its dry you can dope all of it with 3-4 (or more) coats of 50/50 dope thinner to fill it.

Good luck, Jerry

PS: let us know how it turned out.

Offline Ken Burdick

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2015, 10:34:23 AM »
with silkspan , silk and tissue, I iron it first until it's free of wrinkles.

Offline Motorman

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2015, 11:16:36 AM »
1/2oz glass cloth? If I had your money I'd use carbon veil.


MM

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2015, 03:12:01 PM »
The glass cloth is stronger because of its continuous threads. It will make a stiffer surface, especially if you use epoxy. I've found the epoxy/glass to be marginally lighter than epoxy/veil, because it seems to take less epoxy to fill. Weighing like-quality and -sized dope/glass and epoxy/glass samples, I've found them to be close in weight, with the glass lighter. With the epoxy resin, you get more mess and sanding work, but with the dope, you have to keep re-coating, as the dope shrinks into the weave. I think the dope can float the glass some, making it heavier. I let a microscopically thin epoxy first coat dry to a tack as it adheres the rolled-in glass, before I squeegy on a second coat to fill the weave. That keeps the glass down against the wood. The second coat can be a real pain to get right though, if the resin sets too fast (spread it out in a foiled paper plate).

Online Gerald Arana

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2015, 05:47:42 PM »
The glass cloth is stronger because of its continuous threads. It will make a stiffer surface, especially if you use epoxy. I've found the epoxy/glass to be marginally lighter than epoxy/veil, because it seems to take less epoxy to fill. Weighing like-quality and -sized dope/glass and epoxy/glass samples, I've found them to be close in weight, with the glass lighter. With the epoxy resin, you get more mess and sanding work, but with the dope, you have to keep re-coating, as the dope shrinks into the weave. I think the dope can float the glass some, making it heavier. I let a microscopically thin epoxy first coat dry to a tack as it adheres the rolled-in glass, before I squeegy on a second coat to fill the weave. That keeps the glass down against the wood. The second coat can be a real pain to get right though, if the resin sets too fast (spread it out in a foiled paper plate).


Serge,

Sounds like you might benefit from the "toilet" paper method. It's almost the same as squeeging the glass down tight but a whole lot easier (I'm lazy)

In case you don't know what is;  Slop on the resin (Enough to fill the weave) and then blot it off with TP. I roll on the TP, press it down and then pull it off against itself until the glass looks like a nylon stocking on a finely shaven leg!  y1  You do remember those don't you?! LL~ LL~

It will only take one time to get it right. And if you should get it to dry, you can always put some back?

Cheers, Jerry

PS: FG and epoxy can be removed with a heat gun.

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2015, 10:40:13 AM »
Thanks, Gerald. I need to try that. When I get it close but uneven, it IS difficult to sand, without sanding into the glass in places.

Online Gerald Arana

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2015, 03:31:08 PM »
Serge,

The glass should/will be flat or it should be! When you put the TP on it(say a piece 24" long or so) you rub it to blot the resin off, remove the TP and toss it. Then with another (fresh) piece of TP repeat the process until the desired effect is achieved.
Hope this helps, Jerry

Offline Jim Scott

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2015, 05:40:27 PM »
Thanks for the comments and suggestions.  Thus far I've put two thin coats of nitrate on the wings and tail and steam ironed a few sheets of tissue.  The tissue came out better than I thought.  The fold line can still be seen even though the sheet is now flat and wrinkle free.  The plan is to stick with dope and tissue - just because I want to.  It's close to impossible to dope inside; I can't take the fumes. Weather makes it impossible outside as well.

I've done quite a few r/c planes with glass cloth and resin.  I use the West Systems resin and lightweight cloth.  I lay the cut piece over the part then dribble a line a resin along the length.  A small 2" bondo spreader is used to squeegee the resin over the part starting in the middle and moving to the edges.  I'll used a folded piece of paper towel to remove any excess.  The goal is to not see any shiny resin on the surface when the part is viewed from an angle.  The second coat goes on the same way, scraping hard with the spreader to leave only the thinnest film.

What I hate about the epoxy resin method is the clogging sandpaper when sanding.  It does leave a hard and durable surface though.

Lots of good tips have been posted.

Jim

Offline Jim Scott

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 07:36:27 AM »
Final report: Tissue has now been applied to the airframe.  Using a steam iron I ironed out the wrinkles and folds. All the wrinkles came out; the fold lines were still visible but were flat. Three thin coats of dope had been applied to the parts.

I pondered various methods of wetting the tissue and, having also been given the advice that applying dry also worked, I tried dry. It worked just fine by starting in the middle and working out to the edges.  I did not flood the dope on the tissue and worked the tissue into the balsa with the brush.  Fairly new Easy Built tissue was used.  I also had to use a few pieces of 1940s or 1950s heavier weight tissue left from one of my dad's old free flight kits. This did not work as well and left a few wrinkles. These sanded out OK.

Jim

Offline Ken Burdick

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 09:56:54 AM »
melt silk? It's organic and (they tell me)  LL~ you can catch it on fire.
In relearning how to apply the stuff, I had a compound wrinkle and I got frustrated...I have a heat gu and ...ya know, if a little is good, a lot is better. (poof)
It was the 5mm silk from Cal that works pretty well actually.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Using old silkspan
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2015, 04:06:54 PM »
Serge,

The glass should/will be flat or it should be! When you put the TP on it(say a piece 24" long or so) you rub it to blot the resin off, remove the TP and toss it. Then with another (fresh) piece of TP repeat the process until the desired effect is achieved.
Hope this helps, Jerry

Having done this, and having asked how others did it (F1C fliers, years ago), the best way to use the TP is to leave it on the roll and roll it across the surface. As it gets soaked up with epoxy resin, just peel off the wet layers and discard into a plastic bag. When the epoxy hardens, and the job is all done, dispose of it in the trash. The TP with the epoxy, that is.  y1 Steve
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