Wonder what these two planes were doing @ 25k ft.

[Paul Taylor]

A local guy is always catching some unique flyovers. He saw this one today.

[Bruce Shipp]

Lead plane is a tanker.  Nice day to pass gas.

[John Carrodus]

Front plane - a tidy -hidy paint job!

[Steve Helmick]

Lead plane is a tanker.  Nice day to pass gas.

Yup. No reason to do refueling at lower altitudes. Higher, colder and less oxygen, so probably safer?  Steve

[Bruce Shipp]

Fire is little, no risk in air to air refueling.  On my first night tanker in the F-15, the instructor in the back seat did the first hook up.  The boom receptical is behind our left shoulder in the Eagle and I wanted to see how the boom connected so I turned around as we were about to make contact.  I saw an arc jump a two foot gap between the boom and the jet.  I never looked again.👍

Refueling takes place usually in the mid to high 20s.  Any lower and the jets burn too much gas.  Any higher and flying formation with dissimilar aircraft becomes more difficult.

One night during the gulf war weather forced our tanker ops into the mid 30s.  A heavy Eagle with three external tanks and 8 missiles took minimum afterburner on one engine to stay on the boom at refueling speeds.  High AOA and lots of drag for the fighters.  Higher makes that problem worse.

[Tom McClain]

Air Refueling was a fun but intense thing to do in the F-4 Phantom.  My first was in the summer of 1977 out of Luke AFB, AZ with the Skyharbor ANG KC-135s.  The most interesting were the overseas deployments to Hawaii, Hickam AFB, Korea, Suwon AB, Philippines, Clark AB, and Rota Spain.  The picture is off 6 ship of F-4Es from the March AFB, California ANG, 196 TFS, on the was to Hickam AFB, Hawaii for layover and then on to Osan AB, ROK in February 1973.  I am in the 6th Phantom with a MAC photographer in my backseat taking the picture.  He later, 2 hours out of Hickam, developed a hot spot in his helmet and was miserable until the landing.  I tried to get him to take off the helmet for a few minutes, but he refused.  Oh, well.

[BillLee]

Interesting story, Tom!

Could you explain what "developed a hot spot in his helmet and wa...." means?

Thanks.

Bill Lee

[frank williams]

Beautiful Picture Tom, Its now my desktop background.
Yeah, whats a hot spot.  Electrical short?

[Tom McClain]

A hot spot is usually on top of the head in the crown. The blood flow to the scalp is suppressed by a poorly fitted helmet and it becomes very painful, like a red hot poker, on a quarter sized spot on top of your head. No fun at all.

The bottom picture is from the boomer pod operator’s position as he gets ready to plug the lead Phantom.

[frank williams]

The F4's shown have external tanks?  Are those depleted and then refilled on the fly?
Frank

[Tom McClain]

Later USAF F-4Es were modified in the early 1980s to carry the 9G F-15 600 gallon centerline fuel tank. The standard configuration became centerline only unless overseas deploying. Then all 3 tanks. This change was great along with smokeless GE J-79 engines which were more powerful and economical and tactical.

[john e. holliday]

I am so envious to read of you guys that had the talent and education to fly those high powered craft.  Also giving of your time to defend our great nation in times of trouble can't thank you enough. Now my question is does the back seat man able to control the two seat planes?   

[GallopingGhostler]

Later USAF F-4Es were modified in the early 1980s to carry the 9G F-15 600 gallon centerline fuel tank. The standard configuration became centerline only unless overseas deploying. Then all 3 tanks. This change was great along with smokeless GE J-79 engines which were more powerful and economical and tactical.

That would make sense, the F-15 tank would be a regularly stocked item to reduce inventory requirements for the older F-4's, enhancing mission capability.

I remember the F4E's being overhauled at McClellan AFB in the mid 1980's. The older engines did belch a sooty trail behind them on takeoffs, from what I remember. It was neat to walk around the various aircraft they overhauled, the F-111's, F4's, A-10's then. For a short time worked in the Industrial Engineering Flight, A-10 up close reminded me of walking around a model airplane with its Clark-Y like wing airfoil.

A little off topic but even more humorous was where I was tasked to find suitable smoking areas for employees on break. Then, the government was going to a smokeless office and shop environment (absent of the presence of flammables and substantial combustibles, of course). Final conclusion was there were no rooms inside of any of the industrial building where smokers could smoke without affecting the non-smokers.

So, in my CAD drawing for each building footprint (done then on a second generation ComputerVision system - minicomputer based with CV's special graphics processor - a subcabinet in itself, now a simple card for a PC), the designated smoking areas was outdoors near one of the entrances.

A week or two later, the head honcho - ALC general approved (hard to remember back 36 years ago whether general or full bird). During break time, saw older men with their gray hair smoking outdoors like high school students outside the boy's restroom. (In Hawaii, my high school hallway was the outdoor sidewalk.) Inside, I had a little chuckle over this then appearing humorous situation. 

[Tom McClain]

F-4C, D, E, RF-4C and F-4G Wild Weasel fighters did have a stick in the back seat for the back seater. Navy F-4s did not.

[phil c]

I'd suspect the shutter bounced or some other kind of double exposure.









Phil C

[Bruce Guertin]

My mother's little brother took this photo from the back seat of the F-4 he was in. Supposedly on the way to McDill from Selfridge. Late 70s early 80s Handwriting on print is my grandmother's. His ride now sits in the Selfridge Museum.