McCoy .40 needs an airframe some day

[944_Jim]

Hello all,

I picked up a McCoy .40 a while back. The price was too good to say "no," and it came in the OEM box.

I usually stick to 1/2A, and am "stretching my wings." While I do have some .15-sized kits and engines, I'm also looking ahead...way early.

So, if I enjoy my experiences with the next few upsized  kits, I would like a couple of recommendations:

What prop would this engine use on a bench test?
What fuel mix should I use? Tell me low/no nitro and lots of castor. If so, I can run this thing sooner just to hear it run.

And, what full-fuse Sport/Semi-scale (or scale-like "fictional", but not replica of real) planes would you recommend to a moderately experienced builder? I do need a break from warbirds.

I don't expect to fly a PAMPA-grade pattern, but loops and inverted flying would probably be about the extent of my efforts with this engine. I would like to think I could graduate to OTS with the plane, so that limits the eras from which to choose.

Thanks in advance,

Jim in MS

[Bootlegger]

 Jim, I just sent you a private message...

[Jim Hoffman]

10% nitro 20%castor 10-6 prop.


Motorman 8)

I am using a McGas 40 which is a cleaned up and fitted version of the McCoy 40 in a 34 oz. OTS airframe. It’s a pretty powerful motor for an old 40 running mostly 4 cycle.

I recommend way more than 20% oil.

My fuel is 28% oil,  (60% Castor /40% Synthetic Klotz), and 5% nitro

I use a low pitch prop.  10.5 ich dia,  4.5” of pitch, slight less pitch at the tips.  Prop is an old wooden Rev-up.

Launch at a about 9300 RPM.  The motor has a tiny bit of sub-port induction, but I have been successfully using a tongue muffler.

The fuel recipe is:
Castor Oil   17.0%
Klotz synthetic   11.0%
Nitro      5.0%
Methanol   67.0%
   
Hope this is helpful.

Jim Hoffman

[frank mccune]

     Hi:

      How timely.  I am working on my next project, a McCoy .40 Red Head.  I have a Magician built for it.  Why, because I have heard what a nice engine they are.  I have a McCoy .35 RH that has been “fitted” and it is a great stunt engine.  The same chap is going to “fit” the .40.

     Be well,

      Frank McCune

[Tony Drago]

The Viking would be a good plane for the McCoy 40.

[944_Jim]

Thanks, Gents. I guess I should have also mentioned this is a used, but apparently cared for engine.
Viking and Magician...Outerzone, here I come!
Ummm, what size planes should I be hunting?

Props....mmmm, I think I have the sizes y'all have mentioned. Fuel...I can mix up some close to recommended stuff. These numbers look very much like what I've been burning in my Fox .35.

I'm excited by the idea of hearing an unmuffled giant spinning away in my backyard! I'll try to get pics as I work it over.

I appreciate each of your answers!

[Jim Carter]

I probably should keep my thoughts to myself because everyone has their own likes but allow me to recommend the Big Tiger.  I bought the plan from some fellow on EBay back in Oct of 2012.  Granted it's a profile fuselage vs full body however, I spose I've probably built 10 of them for myself and friends over the past few years.  One of them I converted to electric!!  The Big Tiger was designed by Claus Maikis for 35 size but I generally mount 40's on mine and I really love the way it handles.  For the most part, I've opted to leave off the cheek cowls and wheel pants off for the last seven that I've built mainly because I'm lazy and the grass at our county park field is usually maintained around 2" or so.  Here's a few examples for you to see what I'm talking about.  I'm pretty sure you'll be just as pleased as I have been.

Jim Carter
Titusville, FL 

[Dave_Trible]

     Hi:

      How timely.  I am working on my next project, a McCoy .40 Red Head.  I have a Magician built for it.  Why, because I have heard what a nice engine they are.  I have a McCoy .35 RH that has been “fitted” and it is a great stunt engine.  The same chap is going to “fit” the .40.

     Be well,

      Frank McCune

  Hi Frank.  The engine doesn't need to be 'fit'.  Use the fuel listed above or what you should use on a Fox .35.  Break it in gently with a light prop-maybe 9-6 wood to get the rpm up while still in a moderate four cycle and keep the load down to keep it cool.  After about an hour it should be ready for bear.

[944_Jim]

 Mr Jim C,
Thanks for your input. I really like the grey one!

I spotted the Viking on Brodak. Very attractive. This tells me I'm looking at roughly 4.5 foot wingspans. Shug Emery shows a video of one.

What line lengths am I looking for in this size ship? At this scale I refuse to call it a toy plane!

Oh, and I found the Series 21 write-up on Scepterflight. This is a long way from the AP/Norvel .061/.074 engines I've been "toying" with!

[Dan McEntee]

  McCoys are a classic engine that are fun to run. Jim Hoffman's set up for his McGas version will be what you want for any McCoy.. McCoy's went through a lot of change from the company being bought and sold through the years, and you can find a lot on that history here on the forums. The .40's were not produced as much as the rest of the line. A classic match up for it would be a Sterling kit built Ed Southwick Skylark if you wanted to do a full fuse classic airplane that is pretty damn good mount in PAMPA up to Advanced levels. Jim Kraft knows his way around these also and uses his in the Magician which has also been mentioned. The series 21 engines look completely different and are a bit heavier and ugl;y as sin, but if you need the nose weight they run the same. There is also a lot of information here on the forums of taking the guts out of a series 21 engine and transplanting them into a McCoy crankcase/cylinder to extend the life. Replacement rings are available st MECCOA I think. Some one even figured out the correct paint to by to touch up the red head if yours is aged or burned and the information is out there also. I have a few of these also, and always hoped to find a good deal on a Tom Lay hybrid and/or a George Aldrich version. I think Aldrich chromed the liner on his for extended life.  I think you will have fun with yours, and if you need a muffler, there is a thread out there on the engine section by a guy that came up with one that is hand made from K&S aluminum stock and held in place with an ingenious wire bale. If you can post pictures, I would like to see the box?  You just never see them in the box. I had heard rumors that the .40 came about due to Ed Southwick looking for more power for his original Skylark, which is a bit larger than the Sterling kit.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[BillP]

I flew one on a T-Bird 1 (crashed but not forgotten!) and later on a 48" Magician (lawn darted a few times but still able). Sig 25% castor and 5% or 10% nitro at sea level. 11/5 TF SuperM and Thunder Tiger 11/4.5 props. Just enough extra power over the Mc35 to keep the lines tight. Both planes were scratch built and balanced without extra weight using a Big Art tongue muff. My engine was new and I used a 10/6 wood prop on the bench for break in and probably less than 30 mins total run time. Flew it very rich the first few flights. Haven't flown it lately due to injury but that Mc40 is my favorite...I bought it from Big Art about 20 yrs ago and that puts it in the "special" category for me.

[C.T. Schaefer]

I fly mine on an ARF Nobler.  43oz.  Readhead conversion. PM 1/22 fuel. 10.5x or 1o.5x5 prop. Tongue muffler. works good. Power like a Fox .35 but sounds different. Fun.   TS

[frank mccune]

     Hi Dave et al:

     Yes, the engine needs to be fit! The threads on the crank have been crushed, the needle is missing, the front mounting holes have been slotted to take a U shape it is filthy on the outside, the prop washer and prop nut are missing and the piston will not go past the exhaust port. Outside of that, it is in fair nick.  The owner wants $25 for it.  A friend of mine has the parts to rebuild it.  What do you think: Deal or no deal?

     Comments/suggestions

     Frank McCune

[Gary Mondry]

Jim,

You mention Series 21 in your last post.  Is that the one you have?  Most folks probably are thinking the older redhead.  The series 21 is a ringed engine and the same advice might not apply.  I had a series 21 .40 on a Magician years ago, but after a number of flameouts in bad positions, I swapped it for a 25FP and never looked back.  I do wish I had a redhead .40, however.  Jim Kraft powered his many Magicians with one and it was sweet.

[BillP]

Yes, I was posting about a red head 40 and not the series 21. I have a 35 series 21 and it runs on the bench same as a rh 35 so I suspect the 40s are close performance wise except for weight.

[BillP]

     Hi Dave et al:

     Yes, the engine needs to be fit! The threads on the crank have been crushed, the needle is missing, the front mounting holes have been slotted to take a U shape it is filthy on the outside, the prop washer and prop nut are missing and the piston will not go past the exhaust port. Outside of that, it is in fair nick.  The owner wants $25 for it.  A friend of mine has the parts to rebuild it.  What do you think: Deal or no deal?

     Comments/suggestions

     Frank McCune

Hi Frank, Some rh40s came from the factory with slotted lugs. My non lightning bolt version has the slots.

[Gary Mondry]

Bill,

My question was for Jim, but I see that Dan already pointed out the differences.  I should have read ALL the posts before I piped up...

Gary

[944_Jim]

This one:
http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/McCoy%2040%20Series%2021.html

I hope to check for a bench test prop in my stash, and check the glowplug for operation. From there, a quick shot of carb spray through the NVA to ensure fuel flow, a shot of pressurized air to dry the carb spray. Then off to my test bench in the back yard.

My search on OZ found a bunch of planes in the 45"-54" WS. Once the warbirds were culled, I still had about a dozen potential models. Looks like my time period is around 1950's-1960's. Humongous popped up too. ISTR there is a Humongous thread here, so that may be helpful. That one looks really neat!

I have a bad shoulder, so unless I switch my flying arm, this may not happen...looks like a bunch of 4.5' wingspan planes are around 2-3 lbs. Line pull may be too much, as may be the shoulder work for wing-overs. I had no idea what I was walking into until I had your input.

Thanks much for your valued guidance , guys! I will check this thread, and update it if I move forward into Big Plane Territory.
This thread is getting printed and stapled to my Hobby Closet wall.

[EddyR]

Frank   walk away do not look back.
Ed

[944_Jim]

Hmmmm! I forgot a detail.
This guy showed up with a J Roberts three wire handle. I can only surmise I thought the deal was too good given that I also have two right-side up and one suspended three wire bellcrank assemblies. I probably got it to study the handle!

[Tim Wescott]

Well jeeze, if it's got a throttle on it, build something for scale!  It's not like you don't have a suitable bellcrank and handle!

[944_Jim]

Hi Mr. Tim,

So, what is scale with throttle that is also OTS capable? Note I didn't ask OTS legal (I'm not an AMA member anyway). Can a three wire set up do all of the required consecutive loops? I think it is 5 inside/5 outside.
Thanks,

[Dan McEntee]

Hi Mr. Tim,

So, what is scale with throttle that is also OTS capable? Note I didn't ask OTS legal (I'm not an AMA member anyway). Can a three wire set up do all of the required consecutive loops? I think it is 5 inside/5 outside.
Thanks,

    There are some scale and semi scale models that are OTS legal and capable of doing the OT pattern. They used to have a special class for models like that at VSC I think. Sterling made a kit of the British SE-5A that fits that bill and is said to fly the pattern quite well if kept light. Bob Hunt's father Jim had a biplane published in the early fifties that is pretty nice but I forget what it is. Keith Trostle has done a few and probably can name a bunch more from memory. If you want to fly any stunt with it, use a two wire control system like normal and a 2.4 GHZ radio system for throttle. Pretty easy to do a lots of cheap systems out there good enough to transmit 60 feet! I think 5 loops on a three wire system is pushing it, and the extra drag of the third wire is a big part of that. If you just flew it for scale, three wires would be just fine. Just something to think about.
    Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Tim Wescott]

Hi Mr. Tim,

So, what is scale with throttle that is also OTS capable? Note I didn't ask OTS legal (I'm not an AMA member anyway). Can a three wire set up do all of the required consecutive loops? I think it is 5 inside/5 outside.
Thanks,

Hey Jim:

I'd kind of forgotten that you were looking for OTS planes.  But -- what Dan said.

... If you want to fly any stunt with it, use a two wire control system like normal and a 2.4 GHZ radio system for throttle. Pretty easy to do a lots of cheap systems out there good enough to transmit 60 feet! ...

Copy that -- but a very 50's solution would be to make a clamp for the throttle leadout that you affix for flying stunt with two wires, or some other means of nailing down the throttle that doesn't over-stress the control system.  You'd need a system that pulls for high throttle; I'm not sure if that's the standard setup 'cuz I don't fly three lines.

Ever more elaborate schemes are spinning through my head, but it may be as simple as disconnecting the throttle linkage at the engine, nailing the throttle to the preferred position for stunt (which may not be full-on), and just flying on the two elevator wires.

[Dave_Trible]

     Hi Dave et al:

     Yes, the engine needs to be fit! The threads on the crank have been crushed, the needle is missing, the front mounting holes have been slotted to take a U shape it is filthy on the outside, the prop washer and prop nut are missing and the piston will not go past the exhaust port. Outside of that, it is in fair nick.  The owner wants $25 for it.  A friend of mine has the parts to rebuild it.  What do you think: Deal or no deal?

     Comments/suggestions

     Frank McCune

Frank it’s junk.  Keep looking on EBay.  I’ve gotten quite a few new or nearly new ones for not much more than that. 

Dave

[Tim Wescott]

     Hi Dave et al:

     Yes, the engine needs to be fit! The threads on the crank have been crushed, the needle is missing, the front mounting holes have been slotted to take a U shape it is filthy on the outside, the prop washer and prop nut are missing and the piston will not go past the exhaust port. Outside of that, it is in fair nick.  The owner wants $25 for it.  A friend of mine has the parts to rebuild it.  What do you think: Deal or no deal?

     Comments/suggestions

     Frank McCune

I think the only place I'd "fit" that engine would be the trash.  McCoys aren't that rare -- I paid $20 for a 35 in good condition at the Regionals last year, and the only work I needed to do to it was remove it from the profile plane it came attached to.

[frank mccune]

        Hi All:

        The engine in question is  .40 and not a .35.  Yes, a .35 can be found for little money but a .40? Also, the engine is a Red Head.

     Frank McCune

[Jim Kraft]

McCoy Red Head 40's are super steady running powerful engines. I ran them for years in Magicians with great success. I ran 12X6 APC props cut down to 103/4 with wide tips. Pulled like a freight train.