Masks

[Dennis Leonhardi]

It's a sad commentary on the human species when it becomes necessary for mayors, governors to MANDATE behavior.

If citizens had any common sense, they would have implemented  "social distancing" and masks without prodding or laws.

Humans seem slow to learn.  The survivors will be the ones with brains that work.

And even SADDER when their mandates are selective - in other words, DIVISIVE.

Dennis

[Steve Helmick]

Neighbor's friends live in Phoenix, the one in AZ. They are mid-late 70's, and caught Covid-19. Called their doctor(s?), got a 'script from their doctor(s?), and recovered fine. It's not a death sentence IF you get off your ass and call the DOCTOR (assuming he's competent, which can be a problem). The guy that died at Boeing's Everett Plant had been sick for a couple of weeks and refused to go to the DOCTOR.

Our Nursing Home problems were in part caused by "healthcare workers" working less than 32 hours a week at one facility and then going to another facility to get enough hours to be able to pay rent, etc. Seems there should be a solution for that, but I'm sure some will need it explained to them that they spread the virus from one facility to the other(s).

There's a County in Oregon that made it required to wear masks in public, BUT MADE IT "OPTIONAL FOR PERSONS OF COLOR", in case it made them uncomfortable. As I recall, the County Sherriff said it wouldn't be enforced. Seattle or Portland might enforce such an ordinance, but likely just a severe beating and a fine of $1,000, with no jail time. They let convicted FELONS out of JAIL because they're afraid they might catch the virus there. SO THEY LET THEM LOOSE! OMFG!  Steve

[Steve Dwyer]

Steve,

It's interesting your Phoenix friends in their 70's contacted their doctor and received a script and recovered. I have read there is nothing a doctor can prescribe for the Covid-19 infection, excluding the White House's undesirable recommendations of course. They say in most cases the symptoms often begin with a sore throat, headache and low grade fever; people will often hold off several days thinking the have caught a common cold before calling the doc. Supposedly the more elderly with COPD, Asthma, Cornary conditions are the most probable to not recover once they contract the virus. I think most people in this susceptibility category are wise enough to run out to get tested, problem is some states have poor turnaround times on producing the results. It's during this time the symptomatic are high potential spreaders unless they practice self quarantine which many fail to do. Clearly your friends probably didn't have Covid-19 or they are asymptomatic and are now carrying it to others. Were they tested?

Steve

[Robert Zambelli]

Steve said: "I completely side with Dennis M. on leadership and managing a problem."
That would make sense if THERE WAS any leadership.     
NY is run by some of the most incompetent a**holes in the history of that state and city: deblasio and cuomo.
Worthless ignorant democraps.
Leaders? A joke, probably perpetrated by some a** kissing liberal who probably supported worthless incompetent jerks like obama and clinton.
Most of the liberals are also Trump haters. But when asked who would make a better president than Trump, they totally ignore the question simply because they don't have an answer.
You know who you are - how about an answer.   

Just my 2 cents.

[Steve Dwyer]

Bob,

I never really never liked the Democratic crowd over in Albany but I must say they did lead our state out of trouble. You can hate the NY Democratics but when it came to straight answers and the facts back in March when we needed something most you can't deny the country was able to turn to Coumo's daily reports on what the state's numbers were and action being taken to turn the tide. NY pioneered the problem while nothing of any value was coming out of Washington except encouragement from Dr. Fauci. The big kahuna did nothing but make a fool of himself world wide and clearly showed he is unable to manage if you want to point fingers and criticize someone for miss management.

My two bits worth.

 Steve

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Bob,

I never really never liked the Democratic crowd over in Albany but I must say they did lead our state out of trouble. You can hate the NY Democratics but when it came to straight answers and the facts back in March when we needed something most you can't deny the country was able to turn to Coumo's daily reports on what the state's numbers were and action being taken to turn the tide. NY pioneered the problem while nothing of any value was coming out of Washington except encouragement from Dr. Fauci. The big kahuna did nothing but make a fool of himself world wide and clearly showed he is unable to manage if you want to point fingers and criticize someone for miss management.

My two bits worth.

 Steve

Steve: "the Democratic crowd over in Albany ... did lead our state out of trouble" - So, New York is out of trouble now?  Just asking for a friend ...

"NY pioneered the problem" - Most of us can agree with that, especially by sending the infected to homes for the elderly.

Don't look now, but many other Democrats are criticizing Cuomo's press sessions as "self-promotion".  And especially keep disregarding the numbers!


Dennis

[john e. holliday]

If the politicians of NY and other cities are so concerned about controlling the virus, why are they not clamping down on the so called peaceful protesters attacking police officers, looting, shooting and burning?

[Arlan McKee]

This is from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.


https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

[John Leidle]

  I went to the store tonight & some clown , unmasked , was hacking & clearing his throat and of course not wearing a mask. This is why the laws demand masks inside a building . It has nothing to do with " your rights" it has everything to do with protecting others from idiots like this guy who cares less about anyone but his own stupid self.
  And yes he knows my opinion of him .
   We all wear seatbelts is that unlawful too? Car seats for kids? Some people aren't smart enough to use them so we have laws the difference being seatbelts only protect you the masks protect people around you. No , I was against wearing a mask but I do now that it's a law .
     John L.

[pmackenzie]

This is from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.


https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

Consider the source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons

(Of course you may not like mine )

[Brett Buck]

  I went to the store tonight & some clown , unmasked , was hacking & clearing his throat and of course not wearing a mask. This is why the laws demand masks inside a building . It has nothing to do with " your rights" it has everything to do with protecting others from idiots like this guy who cares less about anyone but his own stupid self.
  And yes he knows my opinion of him .
   We all wear seatbelts is that unlawful too? Car seats for kids? Some people aren't smart enough to use them so we have laws the difference being seatbelts only protect you the masks protect people around you. No , I was against wearing a mask but I do now that it's a law .

    It's not a law, anywhere, as far as I know. It's an "order" from a government official, which carries the legal weight of anything else they say - jack-sh*t. Note that the enforcement is at best selective and amounts to peer pressure.

   It's also not about your safety - it's about making you "feel" safe while doing nothing. You wanting a smug feeling of safety shouldn't override another personal liberty.

     As far as I know, martial law has not been declared anywhere; if it was, there would be some thin legal basis for taking orders from public officials - but even then, there would be judicial review of the infringement of rights VS reward - which would quickly show the fact that you being angry about someone wearing a non-functional entirely symbolic device is not legal justification for interfering with someone else's rights. Which is why they aren't hauling anyone into court over it, and merely using the word "order" and peer pressure to try to intimidate you into doing what *they* have personally decided is "right".

    BTW - private property owners and renters CAN ask you to do something specific or be excluded from the property, so Safeway is fully within their rights to ask you to wear a mask or leave because you are trespassing. As always, a private property owner has more legal authority to control their property than a government functionary declaring things. 

   None of this is hard to understand or controversial, it's basic 8th grade civics class stuff.

    Brett

[Dennis Toth]

I agree it is only an "Order" and not really enforceable for all practical purposes. I may give businesses some legal grounds to require customers to wear mask in their establishment. Having said that there are many reports out there both for and against the benefits of wearing them when in larger groups inside were you can't keep 6 - 8 ft apart. It is one of those things you make a choice, put you bet in and roll the dice.

The "Order" does for some people signify a need to do something that if it was not there they would simply do nothing think if it was important the government would have told us to do it. For the rest of us we will use common sense and take the precaution and protect our self's, family, friends and neighbors, wear the masks and social distance when in public areas even if it is minimally effective.

Now that the medical experiment NATs are over, I guess in a few weeks we will see how it goes.

Best,   DennisT

[John Leidle]

  Dennis ,     I agree that the mask does precious little to protect anything. But when Aqua Lung started his noise yesterday it was pretty gross & he has no excuse not to wear one.
     Brett , law was a poor choice of words I didn't attend law school & doubt many here have , used only for lack of having 100% of the facts. I do think anyone reading my simple replies gets my drift  I know without a doubt I speak plainly.
           John L.

[FLOYD CARTER]

Wearing of masks is becoming more and more common.

It must be working.  I can now buy TP outside of the black Market.

Life is good.

[Terrence Durrill]

  I went to the store tonight & some clown , unmasked , was hacking & clearing his throat and of course not wearing a mask. This is why the laws demand masks inside a building . It has nothing to do with " your rights" it has everything to do with protecting others from idiots like this guy who cares less about anyone but his own stupid self.
  And yes he knows my opinion of him .
   We all wear seatbelts is that unlawful too? Car seats for kids? Some people aren't smart enough to use them so we have laws the difference being seatbelts only protect you the masks protect people around you. No , I was against wearing a mask but I do now that it's a law .
     John L.

             What we really need is not a countrywide mask mandate, but a MEGA HAT MANDATE.  We've got a country to save from dangerous forces working against us (besides the Wuhan Red Death Virus), and we had better get cranking.          

[Mike Griffin]

Brett is exactly right.  Mask Mandates are not lawful and there are several lawsuits that have been filed against these dumbass local idiots that have decreed them.

Mike

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Consider the source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons

(Of course you may not like mine )

You're right Pat, you're attacking the source - a basic no-no in logic.  I would like your source proving that masks are helpful overall, really - can you provide one?  Since even the CDC can't ...

Dennis

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Wearing of masks is becoming more and more common.

It must be working.  I can now buy TP outside of the black Market.

Life is good.

Floyd!  After telling us it would take more than 50 years to recover from the Trump Presidency, I knew you'd come around!

Now we can take you seriously!

Dennis

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Brett is exactly right.  Mask Mandates are not lawful and there are several lawsuits that have been filed against these dumbass local idiots that have decreed them.

Mike

As I recall, emergency powers claimed by ELEVEN (11) state governors have now been ruled unconstitutional.  Considering the makeup of the Minnesota Supreme Court, I expect the lawsuit against Governor Walz will have to go to the U.S. Supreme Court before we're added to the total.

Dennis

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Again - I don’t have a problem with wearing a mask if it makes others more comfortable.  Even though we still seem to be looking for a scientific study confirming the benefits of wearing masks outweighs the negatives.

But masks are only a minor symbol.  The real issue is inalienable rights.

Is it right for any form of government in the United States to tell us we can’t assemble for worship, but allow thousands to gather in the streets?

Is it right to tell us we can’t sing or shout in worship, while those same authorities do so?

Is it right to order barber shops and salons closed while women mayors have their hair done in salons?

We could list so much more ...

Just a Very Personal Opinion: Those who don’t recognize much of this is about power and control are either in denial or incredibly stupid.

Bear in mind the “Emergency Powers” claimed by the Governors of ELEVEN (11) states have been ruled unconstitutional - and there will be more.

Dennis

Attachments:
1 - Mask wearing (Not!) with no social distancing at the George Floyd Memorial Service
2 - Senator Amy Klobuchar (MN Democrat) singing at that service while churches were told not to allow singing
3 - MN Democrat Tim Walz at groundbreaking ceremony - observe masks & distancing - Not!
4 - Typical Walz decision - allowed rioting & destruction while National Guard waited for orders, then asked Federal Government - you and me - for 500 Million Dollars to repair damages

[pmackenzie]

You're right Pat, you're attacking the source - a basic no-no in logic.  I would like your source proving that masks are helpful overall, really - can you provide one?  Since even the CDC can't ...

Dennis

Actually I did not attack the source. I merely linked to some information about it so that others could make up their own mind.

But since you brought it up, the organization's name is in itself deceptive. It implies that they speak for all American doctors.
In fact they represent a tiny fraction, and should probably have the word "Libertarian" somewhere in their name.
Not saying there is anything wrong with that either, just that it would better describe them.
At least, according to their web site, they are funded by membership dues.
Based on their "unique" policy positions I had expected to find some involvement from the Koch brothers  ( well, the single remaining one).

FWIW, here is some info in support of masks. Much like the links between smoking and cancer (that the AAPS also disputed) this is not proof.
Instead it presents evidence.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

And of course the image you posted demonstrates nothing. First of all it is just boilerplate lawyer's CYA.
 And second it is not relevant, because it talks about protection to the wearer, which is not the point of wearing a mask.
A medical N95 respirator for example is not a proper mask to be worn by the general public, because of the exhale valve.

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Actually I did not attack the source. I merely linked to some information about it so that others could make up their own mind.

But since you brought it up, the organization's name is in itself deceptive. It implies that they speak for all American doctors.
In fact they represent a tiny fraction, and should probably have the word "Libertarian" somewhere in their name.
Not saying there is anything wrong with that either, just that it would better describe them.
At least, according to their web site, they are funded by membership dues.
Based on their "unique" policy positions I had expected to find some involvement from the Koch brothers  ( well, the single remaining one).

FWIW, here is some info in support of masks. Much like the links between smoking and cancer (that the AAPS also disputed) this is not proof.
Instead it presents evidence.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

And of course the image you posted demonstrates nothing. First of all it is just boilerplate lawyer's CYA.
 And second it is not relevant, because it talks about protection to the wearer, which is not the point of wearing a mask.
A medical N95 respirator for example is not a proper mask to be worn by the general public, because of the exhale valve.

Pat, you provide more ado about NOTHING.

Please provide the link to a scientific study that proves masks protect (1) the wearer and (2) others.  SIMPLE!  I'll actually be quite pleased if you can do so!

Everything else you present is FLUFF.

[FLOYD CARTER]

Obviously, Dennis doesn't recognize sarcasm when it is quite obvious to everyone else.

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

I always find it interesting that a guy says "I've read a bunch both before and after this whole thing came along and it all seems to be BS"

And the first thing out of your guys mouth is "Man Up" "Your Stupid" "Darwin at Work" "Don't be an Ass"  Yet plenty of other places that haven't run through the gauntlet of masks, haven't shut their countries down are through, they have herd immunity and they aren't suffereing from the now story of "Herd Immunity won't work" when their evidence is the spikes WE caused by isolating everyone then introducing them back to each other.

SO, you guys start calling names.

Thats find.  Never really wanted to hang out with you pussies anyways.

[Dan McEntee]

  I have been watching this mask debate for a while, both here  and in the media, and nobody brings up one important point. The mask, when used as a preventive measure doesn't do diddley squat unless you combine it with eye protection.  It has long been held and proven that viruses can enter your system through your eyes as well as through your nose. In fact, that is where most people catch the common cold, (which is a corona virus)  by rubbing their eyes with their germ covered hands. And then that brings hand washing back into the picture. If you think the mask thing is a bunch of crap, try getting the average Joe to wear eye protection all the time!  Gloves are a better option.
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Ken Culbertson]

But the gloves won’t stop you touching your face with filthy hands. That’s a habit I find difficult to stop..

The masks did break me of touching my face all the time.

Ken