stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: john e. holliday on July 01, 2020, 05:07:19 PM
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Yes this may control our flying, but I intend to fight it In my area Shawnee has joined the Kansas City area in saying we must wear mask if we are out side homes/houses. I for one told my wife I will not wear one. She told me it will be required for me to attend Church. I told her I guess I will stay home and worship my LORD and Savior there. Same with shopping, if they say I need a mask I will go back home. Also if at the flying field if I am alone why should I need a mask. May need a defense lawyer in time. Wait and see. S?P
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I wear mine whenever among others, not because I have to, not because it protects ME, but because it protects OTHERS FROM ME. The increasing number of deaths in areas where people do not show consideration for others is a measure of their effectiveness. There is responsibility to be taken for the increased hospitalizations and deaths, and it is not God "playing dice with the universe." It is choices made not to wear masks. Masks are not a denial of one's civil liberties any more than DUI laws or laws against stealing and murder. There are just some things to which we agree, and one is not to kill others unnecessarily.
OTOH, I don't see the absolute need for a mask outside, especially if we keep our distances. When I'm near anyone - like inside that 6' distance - I'' probably continue to wear the mask, even outside. It's not that difficult or such an inconvenience. - SK
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++++ Serge++++ Thank you SIR.
Joe
JEH Why even post this?? Put on a mask and Make everyone around you feel safe in your presence instead of stirring the pot. You must not have lost a family member to this like others have.
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It's interesting to read articles written before they had an agenda.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150422121724.htm
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It's interesting to read articles written before they had an agenda.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150422121724.htm
Read that carefully, they are comparing medical grade masks effectiveness compared to cloth masks in protecting health care workers.
So not even the same use case.
Also interesting to read articles in the same journal that are on point:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200612172200.htm
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Along with Pat's comments, medical grade masks help keep particles away from the person wearing the mask. Cloth masks aren't really designed for that use. The cloth masks that are advised for public keep the bulk of the oral and nasal secretions and viral particles from spreading as far, and catch many of your own particles in your own mask. The cloth masks keep your output to your self, and should be washed occasionally or frequently. They are a courtesy to others around you. I don't think the use of cloth masks in public seen worldwide is political or agenda related, but public health oriented.
I hope that this is not taken as political, but as health oriented.
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The advice here in Britain, which makes a great deal of sense to me, is that wearing a mask out of doors is of no significant benefit assuming that reasonable social distancing is maintained. Indoors, i.e. in any confined space, is a different matter, and the wearing of masks is strongly advised. It's actually mandatory on public transport. It's acknowledged that the main purpose is to catch an infected person's virus-carrying secretions before they spread to anyone else, rather than to protect the wearer from infection.
The bottom line is that you certainly wouldn't be expected to wear a mask to fly C/L stunt - though combat or team-racing might be another matter!
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Yes this may control our flying, but I intend to fight it In my area Shawnee has joined the Kansas City area in saying we must wear mask if we are out side homes/houses. I for one told my wife I will not wear one. She told me it will be required for me to attend Church. I told her I guess I will stay home and worship my LORD and Savior there. Same with shopping, if they say I need a mask I will go back home. Also if at the flying field if I am alone why should I need a mask. May need a defense lawyer in time. Wait and see. S?P
John,
Stupidity is not a virtue. Wear the mask.
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I'm with Doc. The so called "experts" are in it for the money. One of our "experts" said we would loose 7.5 million jobs in April. We gained 2.5 million jobs, that's a mistake of 10 million. I listen to myself and common sense. I stand with Texas. I wear a mask when I spray paint.
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Doc....., sure your own decision to stay healthy or not.
Be or not be...that's the question.
In my hometown ,309.370 residents,
we have little over 500 Covid 19 cases @ Hospitals for intensive care.
Please stay healthy and wear a mask when you leave your house.
Elderly people like me are in more Covid 19 Danger like younger.
Keep in mind, .......beside your wife and kids ,
your grandkids are LOVING YOU TOO.
Hopefully the bats of wuhan wont create a new Covid 20 virus for next year.
Still its your decision to become another Covid 19 victim or not.
People went to church without mask,.....they now hospitalized....for intensive care.
BTW I do NOT fear mongering ,
these are only reliable numbers of my hometown.
All the best
H^^ Peter
with Pitman ;D Willi S.
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you all should watch Sparkys video
retired Army wife and I ...both in high risk group
we both object to being TOLD to behave any way
if we wear a mask it is ONLY because we need a good or service in some grossly ill informed establishment
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The idea that wearing a mask when in areas of a group of people somehow infringes on your freedom is illogical. You make the free choice to be in these areas, no one is forced to put themselves in a situation where you could be exposed to the Covid 19 or any other conditions, you make that choice.
What you do not have is the right to put others at risk for your choices and this is one of those issues where you don't just take a risk for yourself (like not wearing seatbelts) but your family and friends and flying buddies. The studies (Google it) have shown that the simple mask face cover is 65 - 85% effective in preventing transmission (85% with some distancing). Even Pence is now wearing one. Let MAG stand for "Masks Are Great".
This is a no brainer, why take an unnecessary risk when you have a simple cheap way of reducing your chance for infections or spreading to others. No one is getting rich off masks, you can make them yourself or just use a bandana. At the very least cover you mouth with a handkerchief when you talk or laugh when around other people if you can't be 6 ft away from them, simple stuff.
The shame of it is that if they would have advised the public to wear the simple face cover mask way back in the beginning, we likely could have avoided much of this shut down. That's water under the bridge, now that we know let's work to get this thing defeated, wear the masks.
Best, DennisT
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with you Dennis y1,
"Must wear mask" came out QUICK by new law and
kept the Victim numbers VD~ LOW as possible, still working on it HB~>.
I am sure....one mask is allways BETTER than nothing .
Lets talk about this a few month later.
H^^
Peter
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The bottom line is that you certainly wouldn't be expected to wear a mask to fly C/L stunt - though combat or team-racing might be another matter!
They can skip the mask too. Reliale sources tell me that insanity makes you immune to the virus. If it is a life long immunity then I am safe because I flew both when I was younger. Now, if you ask most of our wives if we are crazy we gain immunity from flying stunt. So - do we ware a mask? No, unless you have never flown racing or combat and your wife actually likes your hobby (some actually do).
Ken
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Read that carefully, they are comparing medical grade masks effectiveness compared to cloth masks in protecting health care workers.
So not even the same use case.
Also interesting to read articles in the same journal that are on point:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200612172200.htm
I did read carefully. Evidently you did not. The study I posted involved 3 separate groups with a control group.
The agenda article you posted looked at "trends" and then by "projecting the trends" , " calculated that over 66,000 were prevented".
So in other words, they did not do a scientific study of anything. Just guessed at a number.
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People are saying they don't like being "TOLD" or "Forced" to wear a mask. REALLY? You're told not to Drink and Drive. You're told to abide by the speed limit. These are all in place to protect others. Lots of videos being posted and passed around that is both truthful and many with false claims. Talk to people who work in the ICUs. Talk to the folks that are really down in the trenches. Most of us don't see any of the bad stuff from where we are sitting. (until it affects us personally). I hope and pray this gets under control but it takes cooperation from EVERYONE to keep it in check in the meantime.
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"You make the free choice to be in these areas, no one is forced to put themselves in a situation where you could be exposed to the Covid 19 or any other conditions, you make that choice."
you obviously have no idea how many ways some adult may be FORCED (by necessity) to go to town for supplies that are not delivered or curbside available
we are logical rural "preppers" is so much as multiple freezers, large pantry, several gas cans, batteries, dry goods, paper goods, dog food, .......but 30~ 60 day worth of supply eventually needs replenishment, and we could use some fresh meat n produce don't ya know
We are not covid carriers when we go to town after 3~6 weeks of isolation....so If I choose to not wear a mask....shut your yap damnit!
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At the doctors for a routine check this morning. This is posted everywhere:
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Well, good luck. Basic Darwinism.
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We are not covid carriers when we go to town after 3~6 weeks of isolation....so If I choose to not wear a mask....shut your yap damnit!
Amen brother!! You are absolutely right!! Spot on!! You have the "right to not mask up"!! Yep, you're thinking!! But, on your last trip to town for those "prepper" essentials ... do you remember the friendly smiling person, on the upwind side of you, that was about 15 feet away, who just walked past you and sneezed and was a "hot, active" Covid carrier?? Well, ten days later as you lay in the intensive care ward ... well, can me and the guys stop by your place and have all your model airplane stuff?? LL~ LL~
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"You make the free choice to be in these areas, no one is forced to put themselves in a situation where you could be exposed to the Covid 19 or any other conditions, you make that choice."
you obviously have no idea how many ways some adult may be FORCED (by necessity) to go to town for supplies that are not delivered or curbside available
we are logical rural "preppers" is some much as freezers, large pantry, several gas cans, batteries, dry goods, paper goods, dog food, .......but 30~ 60 day worth of supply eventually needs replenishment, and we could use some fresh produce don't ya know
We are not covid carriers when we go to town after 3~6 weeks of isolation....so If I choose to not wear a mask....shut your yap damnit!
Just out of curiosity, when you go to town do you wear a mask while shopping or do you force the business to break the "law" by letting you shop without one. Do you wear one when sanding or spraying?
In the last couple of weeks before coming to towh are you saying that you had zero interaction with anybody outside of your household and neither did any of them? If you did are you 100% sure that the person you interacted with also interacted with nobody in 2 weeks? If you can't answer Yes to all three of those then you don't really know if you are infected or not, you are just guessing.
Masks serve several purposes in public. In private, I don't give a lusty crap if you use one but in public where close interaction is unavoidable, you should because:
#1 I don' know you from Adam and if you have a mask on I am not as fearful that you might be "Covid Mary" n1,
#2 our Governor has asked us to wear one in public (A S K E D, not mandated) y1, and
#3 I own stock in a company that manufactures masks LL~ (just kidding on that one)
ken
Damn Jim - I should have read your first!
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Just wear a mask
For everyone who has a compromised immune system (like myself) I wear one when I am out in public but especially inside stores or any group settings. The mask protects you from harm but it also protects you from harming other people who could spread the problem.
It's simple if you don't have a mask on you can spread the problem to someone else who then share it with others. If you have the mask on then you can't share with others and the problem stops at you.
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The masks most people are wearing don't do anything to protect you or the public. Do some research of Actual medical data. Wearing a cloth mask with a cute logo is like using chain link to stop flies. Most M95 masks are designed to keep toxins/chemicals out. Those little "things" on the sides? Those are one-way exhaust vents to let every bit of your exhaust out when you exhale (yeah, you're not Protecting anyone but YOU) Industrial masks are not fine enough to stop microbe level virus's. Don't believe me? Ask a medical doctor what he would wear if he had to treat someone he knew for certain had Ebola virus (An actually Very Deadly Virus) He will not answer anything people are wearing now. What does that say? He knows that what people are wearing will not reliably stop a Virus and he doesn't want to die. If you also ask him if it's healthy to wear a mask all the time, He will tell you NO. Why? Because all masks reduce the amount of oxygen in your blood stream. They not only reduce your ability to draw air in but they cause you to rebreathe your own exhaust which is high in Co2 and contains toxins that your body is trying to eliminate. Social distance and washing your hands are the best defence. If you have to go close to crowds, try to maintain 6 ft, wear some kind of mask and when you leave that environment throw the mask away and wash your hands.
The people telling you to wear a mask outdoors at all times are idiot politicians who want to control you. They are not medical experts and they don't give a @#$% about your health.
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I agree with Serge, it's no skin off my ass to wear a mask. Had to wear one a lot when I worked, also faceshields and Nomex coveralls when I worked in a refinery. Better than getting welding fumes and grinding grit in my face. Oh I forgot the ear plugs and Safety Harness when we were above 6 feet on a ladder. So anyone upset with having to wear a mask is getting no sympathy from me.
Rich
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I did read carefully. Evidently you did not. The study I posted involved 3 separate groups with a control group.
The agenda article you posted looked at "trends" and then by "projecting the trends" , " calculated that over 66,000 were prevented".
So in other words, they did not do a scientific study of anything. Just guessed at a number.
Three groups. One wearing medical grade masks , another cloth masks, the control group basically wearing whatever they normally used (i.e masks!)
The trial saw 1607 hospital healthcare workers across 14 hospitals in the Vietnamese capital, Hanoi, split into three groups: those wearing medical masks, those wearing cloth masks and a control group based on usual practice, which included mask wearing.
The conclusion was that medical masks worked better than cloth , so medical workers should be wearing medical masks.
Cloth was probably worse than control ( they don't say this in the short summary) just because some of the control would be wearing medical masks
Not exactly rocket science.
But as i said, a different use case than wearing a mask to prevent the wearer from infecting others.
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Summary:Respiratory infection is much higher among healthcare workers wearing cloth masks compared to medical masks, research shows. Cloth masks should not be used by workers in any healthcare setting, authors of the new study say.
The widespread use of cloth masks by healthcare workers may actually put them at increased risk of respiratory illness and viral infections and their global use should be discouraged, according to a UNSW study.
That's the whole point. Wearing a cloth mask in any setting will increase anyone's chances of the same respiratory ilnesses.
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It's simple if you don't have a mask on you can spread the problem to someone else who then share it with others. If you have the mask on then you can't share with others and the problem stops at you.
The masks and other protocols used by the general public are like putting a screen door on a submarine. Actually protecting yourself from something as small as a virus, or containing it, (which is actually much more difficult) requires far more than could practically be done on a mass scale.
Masks are an entirely psychological phenomenon, it makes you think you are doing *something", and actually have some control over a situation that you have no real control over. The underlying issue is that, having lived lives of obscene luxury and safety (for 3 generations now) people cannot fathom that there are situations beyond their practical control, and therefore demand a solution on the assumption that there must be one.
Ultimately, unless a vaccine is found in the next few months, I would guess the ultimate death toll will be about the (deaths per infection) *320 million. That seems to mean around 300,000-500,000 people might die in the USA. Assuming this was a naturally-developed virus, *it is no one's fault*, *nothing practical can be done to alter it*. Nature and the real world are a pretty harsh and there are some problems that *cannot be solved*, thinking that "this is the 21st century, we have moved beyond this sort of thing, this can't be happening to us!" is nonsense. We have been living a charmed life, but eventually probability catches up with you.
Of course, the "it takes a village" types are all too happy to promise to do something and be seen to be doing something, effective are not, and all too happy to find a "solution" that eliminates any semblance of personal choice, because it plays to their end goals, that is, eliminating the uniquely American concept of individual liberty.
Every proposed apocalyptic "crisis" for the last 50 years has, oddly, had the same solution.
It also gives you a clearly visible signal of this "compliance", and thus wearing a mask almost immediately became your indication of virtue, or not, so it makes you feel superior to be more conservative about "safety".
If you don't want to catch Wuhan Flu, then don't go out and wait at home for a vaccine. That is your only realistic method of avoiding infection. Not practical on a mass scale, of course, and no guarantees at all, but its what little you can actually do that is effective to protect yourself. Otherwise, you wearing a mask, or other people wearing masks, will accomplish exactly nothing for "safety".
Brett
p.s. Wuhan flu *absolutely is* a health crisis, it is a very real disease that you will almost certainly be exposed to (and maybe already have been), some chance of developing detectable symptoms from, and a very small but realistic chance of dying from. People who think it is entirely fake are probably just doing the same thing as the "safety screechers", they might realize that there is no real defense from it, and for their own peace of mind, must assume that it's just made-up. It definitely is not made up, the effects of been greatly exaggerated for purposes of manipulation, but very real and much more dangerous that a typical seasonal flu.
For certain groups, in fact, the statistics are staggering, if you are over 75 - 80, it's just short of a death sentence. Part of that is that in the most incompetent responses (New York and Florida), they had policies that nearly guaranteed exposure of large numbers of people already compromised to the point they were in nursing homes. A lot of this was avoidable with even simple precautions,
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Say what you will, but the young lady in the Birka in Doc's post looks pretty damn good to me! Gorgeous eyes,she's a 20 pointer I bet.....Skip
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Say what you will, but the young lady in the Birka in Doc's post looks pretty damn good to me! Gorgeous eyes,she's a 20 pointer I bet.....Skip
Couldn't agree more
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From Ted Nugent:
Why do I have to stay home just because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared? How about 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay home....𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal,
I'm done playing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I'm not wearing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I'm no longer staying in my house or catering to 𝘆𝗼𝘂 because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared. I'm not wearing a mask and I'm not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I'm not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it's not because of 𝘆𝗼𝘂, it's because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick.
This virus (or whatever it is) is already circulating. Millions of people have already encountered it, as it's been circulating around the world probably since last September. You WILL have to confront this thing, if you haven’t already. There is no way around it, unless you lock yourself up in your house and it somehow doesn't manage to hop on some mail or some groceries that you ordered online.
𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not an excuse to destroy America. 𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not my fear and your fear does not have the right to interfere with my life, my job, my income or my future as a free American citizen. So if you're scared, you can just put your tin foil hat on, or even wrap foil all around your whole body - or around your whole house if you wish - but please keep your fear contained to your little corner of the world and don't contaminate me or my family or my Country.” 🇺🇸
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Here is a direct quote i lifted from an article from The New England Journal of Medicine.
"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."
Mike
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So - do we ware a mask? No, unless you have never flown racing or combat and your wife actually likes your hobby (some actually do).
Ken
That sounds about right, Ken! Way back, there was a jokey bit of correspondence in AeroModeller about possible uses for the balsa dust we generate so freely in our workshops: one suggestion was "head filler for combat modellers"!
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From Ted Nugent:
Why do I have to stay home just because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared? How about 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay home....𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal,
I'm done playing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I'm not wearing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I'm no longer staying in my house or catering to 𝘆𝗼𝘂 because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared. I'm not wearing a mask and I'm not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I'm not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it's not because of 𝘆𝗼𝘂, it's because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick.
This virus (or whatever it is) is already circulating. Millions of people have already encountered it, as it's been circulating around the world probably since last September. You WILL have to confront this thing, if you haven’t already. There is no way around it, unless you lock yourself up in your house and it somehow doesn't manage to hop on some mail or some groceries that you ordered online.
𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not an excuse to destroy America. 𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not my fear and your fear does not have the right to interfere with my life, my job, my income or my future as a free American citizen. So if you're scared, you can just put your tin foil hat on, or even wrap foil all around your whole body - or around your whole house if you wish - but please keep your fear contained to your little corner of the world and don't contaminate me or my family or my Country.” 🇺🇸
Mike, I can't agree with you more! And you said it very well. y1
Now go fly and enjoy life, Jerry
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That sounds about right, Ken! Way back, there was a jokey bit of correspondence in AeroModeller about possible uses for the balsa dust we generate so freely in our workshops: one suggestion was "head filler for combat modellers"!
Wasn't for the waste of the balsa dust, I say use it to fill the head of the politicians. LL~ LL~
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The masks and other protocols used by the general public are like putting a screen door on a submarine. Actually protecting yourself from something as small as a virus, or containing it, (which is actually much more difficult) requires far more than could practically be done on a mass scale.
Masks are an entirely psychological phenomenon, it makes you think you are doing *something", and actually have some control over a situation that you have no real control over. The underlying issue is that, having lived lives of obscene luxury and safety (for 3 generations now) people cannot fathom that there are situations beyond their practical control, and therefore demand a solution on the assumption that there must be one.
Ultimately, unless a vaccine is found in the next few months, I would guess the ultimate death toll will be about the (deaths per infection) *320 million. That seems to mean around 300,000-500,000 people might die in the USA. Assuming this was a naturally-developed virus, *it is no one's fault*, *nothing practical can be done to alter it*. Nature and the real world are a pretty harsh and there are some problems that *cannot be solved*, thinking that "this is the 21st century, we have moved beyond this sort of thing, this can't be happening to us!" is nonsense. We have been living a charmed life, but eventually probability catches up with you.
Of course, the "it takes a village" types are all too happy to promise to do something and be seen to be doing something, effective are not, and all too happy to find a "solution" that eliminates any semblance of personal choice, because it plays to their end goals, that is, eliminating the uniquely American concept of individual liberty.
Every proposed apocalyptic "crisis" for the last 50 years has, oddly, had the same solution.
It also gives you a clearly visible signal of this "compliance", and thus wearing a mask almost immediately became your indication of virtue, or not, so it makes you feel superior to be more conservative about "safety".
If you don't want to catch Wuhan Flu, then don't go out and wait at home for a vaccine. That is your only realistic method of avoiding infection. Not practical on a mass scale, of course, and no guarantees at all, but its what little you can actually do that is effective to protect yourself. Otherwise, you wearing a mask, or other people wearing masks, will accomplish exactly nothing for "safety".
Brett
p.s. Wuhan flu *absolutely is* a health crisis, it is a very real disease that you will almost certainly be exposed to (and maybe already have been), some chance of developing detectable symptoms from, and a very small but realistic chance of dying from. People who think it is entirely fake are probably just doing the same thing as the "safety screechers", they might realize that there is no real defense from it, and for their own peace of mind, must assume that it's just made-up. It definitely is not made up, the effects of been greatly exaggerated for purposes of manipulation, but very real and much more dangerous that a typical seasonal flu.
For certain groups, in fact, the statistics are staggering, if you are over 75 - 80, it's just short of a death sentence. Part of that is that in the most incompetent responses (New York and Florida), they had policies that nearly guaranteed exposure of large numbers of people already compromised to the point they were in nursing homes. A lot of this was avoidable with even simple precautions,
I was going to say; The virus is here, It will be here forever, and if you don't get it this year, and you live long enough, you will most certainly get it at some point. Are all you pro maskers going to wear masks for the rest of your life? If you're not prepared to do that, you're wasting your time.
As usual, Brett's argument was far more eloquent, and 100% correct.
Derek
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The sad part of this argument is that everybody is right. The only answer to this Pan(ic)demic is a cure and a vaccine both of which will be here soon. In the mean time there is nothing wrong with wearing a mask. I have lived a few years in the Orient and they wear them allot. What has everybody scared poopless is the spreading with no symptoms. It is like we are all in a movie starting John Wayne and Henry Winkler. Both arguments are right, we just need to stop thinking that there is only one. If we have learned anything from this it is that you cannot have unprotected sex with Mother Nature, the only thing more useless than our Federal and local governments is, well - nothing, at least two generations of our kids have been totally brainwashed and you can't trust the Chineese Government (period).
And 2020 is only 1/2 over ~^ - Ken
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I guess we will see how this turns out in Texas.
I believe that wearing the mask in areas where I can't distance, even if is has minimal impact is worth doing. Something is still better than nothing and for me it can't hurt.
Best, DennisT
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I haven't read the multitude of "well-meaning" posts on this subject. Here'a all I really need to know:
I read about a recent experiment, conducted with the utmost care, regarding the effectiveness of a mask.
With no mask, a cough spreads droplets up to 10 ft, indoors with no large air circulation.
A home-brew "bandana" mask spreads 3 to 4 ft.
A proper mask designed for the purpose limits the spread to about 6 inches!
It would be really nice if everyone really understood those numbers.
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y1
I haven't read the multitude of "well-meaning" posts on this subject. Here'a all I really need to know:
I read about a recent experiment, conducted with the utmost care, regarding the effectiveness of a mask.
With no mask, a cough spreads droplets up to 10 ft, indoors with no large air circulation.
A home-brew "bandana" mask spreads 3 to 4 ft.
A proper mask designed for the purpose limits the spread to about 6 inches!
It would be really nice if everyone really understood those numbers.
y1
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I haven't read the multitude of "well-meaning" posts on this subject. Here'a all I really need to know:
I read about a recent experiment, conducted with the utmost care, regarding the effectiveness of a mask.
With no mask, a cough spreads droplets up to 10 ft, indoors with no large air circulation.
A home-brew "bandana" mask spreads 3 to 4 ft.
A proper mask designed for the purpose limits the spread to about 6 inches!
It would be really nice if everyone really understood those numbers.
I can also report a careful experiment, repeated many times with 100% success rate, that shows the ritual sacrifice of a prisoner by ripping out his still-beating heart is what powers the sun. They did it over and over, and the sun never went away. Q. E. D.
Brett
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I agree with Floyd's post but there are varying results depends on how the mask is made and worn. I also agree with Brett's earlier post that we all will eventually face this virus, many may already have and didn't know it.
For me the point of wearing the mask and distancing is to help slow the spread and flatten the rate of infection curve. I think the whole purpose of the shut down was to get the heath facilities to where they could handle the case load. I think with the recent surge in some areas that is what we are trying to do, just keep it at a rate the hospitals can keep up with, without running short of PPE or burning out doctors/nurses/staff.
Best, DennisT
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I can also report a careful experiment, repeated many times with 100% success rate, that shows the ritual sacrifice of a prisoner by ripping out his still-beating heart is what powers the sun. They did it over and over, and the sun never went away. Q. E. D.
Brett
Not scientific, no control group. I thought it was virgins? Maybe they ran out and switched to prisoners. LL~
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My wife and I went to a restaurant a couple of days ago to eat. Kind of hard to wear a mask while eating. The next day I went ot my eye doctor. He was wearing a mask. I told him I do not hear well but read lips just fine. I told him we were going to have a hard time communicating if he kept the mask on. He said, if you do not mind I will take it off because I believe they do zip to protect anyone. He said He just did it for those who believe it helps.
But, we have only had one or two cases in our county and the next one over. Why wear a mask when there is no threat. Our town swimming pool is open and full of people swimming without masks. Some people are wearing masks when shopping, but most are not. We could save more lives if we outlawed cars. Everyone knows SUV's kill on contact.
I have had the Asian flu, the swine flu, and we never had a lock down for either one. School continued in both cases. Just sayin. Of course that was 60 years ago. If someone back then had said we all have to stay in our houses till the flu season passes they would have sent for the men in white coats.
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Hey Jim Carter...you said "Well, ten days later as you lay in the intensive care ward ... well, can me and the guys stop by your place and have all your model airplane stuff?? LL~ LL~"
you sir seem to think if I get covid for not wearing and ineffectual mask is roll on the floor funny.....perhaps you meant ironic or sad......
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After flying my planes yesterday I went home just as a storm was approaching. Changed to dry clothes as the humidity has me really sweating. Checked and races were still on. Got to the track and no people lined up at ticket stand. Was stuck out on the roadway to the track with fans and racers trying to get in. Seems storm had the track closed for a bit. Had to wear mask to get ticket and get to the grandstands. Seems people just wore the mask to get in and go to concession stands. They were in process of grading the top layer of mud off the track Was tired when I got home at one AM.
Did see a friend I hadn't seen for a while who claimed he was cured of the China virus(covid-19). Said none of his family members were infected either while hw had it. Didn't say what the cure was. Makes me wonder. ???
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Here is a direct quote i lifted from an article from The New England Journal of Medicine.
"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."
Mike
The NEJM article noted above that seemed to suggest mask as not helpful. The same authors of the article saw that their article was cited to discredit mask wearing and quickly published the correct interpretation urging people to wear masks. A short two paragraphs of explanation in their correction.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2020836
In addition, more explanation from a medical viewpoint below.
Viral particles are magnitudes larger that our normal breathable gas "particles" or molecules. Masks may filter particles and still allow gasses to pass. Unfortunately odors are not blocked, but then neither is the oxygen that we need nor the carbon dioxide we exhale. To be fair, virus particles are also smaller that the filter or screen size of many masks, but viral particles are said to be in Brownian random motion, not straight line motion. That makes the mask more effective. In addition, most of the viral particles are attached to respiratory secretions from its host, making filtering much more effective.
A surgeon standing over an open operating site such as heart and lungs, abdominal cavity, or brain will be wearing a surgical mask. It is to keep his secretions out of the patient through air travel. His mask is quite permeable to air, but keeps his oral and nasal secretions trapped. It would not protect him from harmful particles incoming, that would be the n95 mask. But, I’m sure that you would be happy that he wears it. Of course a medical worker in a lab with something deadly like Ebola would likely wear a full suit with an air supply.
Simple layered cotton masks have been shown affective at knocking down respiratory secretions with their viral particles. Your mask can greatly diminish the risk to others. If all wear them in public and congested areas, then the spread is reduced significantly.
This is not intended as a political statement, but some of the medical information behind mask use. Medical explanations aren’t law and can’t tell you to wear the masks. This might help understand why smelling odor through a mask doesn’t mean that it isn’t effective.
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Mask it
or
Casket
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Mask it
or
Casket
~^My, of my. You mean the two million they told us would die of the China flu REALLY HAVE DIED of the China flu and they have hidden the truth from us??!!!!
Hurry boys! Reserve your casket before there's a run on them like there was on toilet paper!
Joe Ed Pederson
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Yes this may control our flying, but I intend to fight it In my area Shawnee has joined the Kansas City area in saying we must wear mask if we are out side homes/houses. I for one told my wife I will not wear one. She told me it will be required for me to attend Church. I told her I guess I will stay home and worship my LORD and Savior there. Same with shopping, if they say I need a mask I will go back home. Also if at the flying field if I am alone why should I need a mask. May need a defense lawyer in time. Wait and see. S?P
Just a note of support, John. I feel the same way about the mask question. Good luck. D>K H^^
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Yes this may control our flying, but I intend to fight it In my area Shawnee has joined the Kansas City area in saying we must wear mask if we are out side homes/houses. I for one told my wife I will not wear one. She told me it will be required for me to attend Church. I told her I guess I will stay home and worship my LORD and Savior there. Same with shopping, if they say I need a mask I will go back home. Also if at the flying field if I am alone why should I need a mask. May need a defense lawyer in time. Wait and see. S?P
Just a note of support John. I feel the same way about the "mask issue". Good luck ! D>K H^^
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I was going to say; The virus is here, It will be here forever, and if you don't get it this year, and you live long enough, you will most certainly get it at some point. Are all you pro maskers going to wear masks for the rest of your life? If you're not prepared to do that, you're wasting your time.
As usual, Brett's argument was far more eloquent, and 100% correct.
Derek
Yes for the rest of my life, or a vaccine. Are yon NOT going to wear a mask for the rest of your life?
It is fair to debate how effective masks are. They have a positive affect on (maybe small) infection, why not help out? Why try to fail?
It funny this group of people will do extraordinary stuff to get another ounce off their airplane or a few more appearance points we stress the 1%
But masks, even if you believe they have a a small affect, you wont wear them.
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Plagiarized from my FB feed:.....some of it is strange but the message in first and last lines is very seriously real.......show me your papers is coming!
"For all of my friends defending the mask, I won’t unfriend you, no matter how hard you try to push your views down my throat, but read this.
When you ask why? - It’s just a mask:
.....”It's just a mask" can turn into "it's just a vaccine" very quickly. And it will, you can bet your bottom dollar on that!
.
In less than 5 months, our government has successfully divided the country into "obedient mask wearers" versus "selfish people that refuse to wear masks".
.
"It's just a mask, you guys". It's for "the greater good"!
Where have we heard this phrase before?
In less than 5 months, our government has dictated what events are acceptable versus unacceptable to attend. Riots are OK, family funerals are not. Standing in a graduation line is a "safety hazard", but feel free to line up at WalMart, Lowes, and Home Depot.
But it's "just a mask" & "safety precautions", you guys.
In less than 5 months, our government successfully facilitated the closing of family-owned businesses while granting authority to large corporations that they have invested interests in.
It's "just a mask" and "safety precautions" you guys. Oh & here's a measly $1200 that we stole from you in the first place. Enjoy!
In less than 5 months, our government was able to successfully sway the population into believing that a CASHLESS SOCIETY is a good thing! In the name of a government sponsored virus.
In less than 5 months, our government closed down public schools, and has "restructured" school moving forward under the guise of "public safety" from a "virus". These same schools fed children crap per the corrupt USDA food pyramid. But "health" matters when it comes to a government sponsored virus 💡
It's "just a mask" & "heightened safety precautions", you guys.
In less than 5 months, our government demonstrated how easily people assimilate to "guidelines" (that have NO scientific premise whatsoever) when they are fearful.
What was up with all that toilet paper?
It's "just a mask" & "6 foot social distancing", you guys. Oh, and dooky paper.
In less than 5 months, our government has successfully instilled fear in a majority of the population in America.
But citizens are not "afraid" of the people in power who are responsible for the removal of their "freedoms". Instead, they're fearful of their neighbors and family, human touch, and air.
There are thousands of viruses that *could* affect the population, but these viruses do not matter because MSM didn't say they do.
It's absolutely terrifying to me that so many people do not question authority because they see that authority as "all knowing." It's even more terrifying that these same people rely on corrupt "leaders" to be led, thus lacking all critical thinking skills/independence.
Slaves to the system that keeps them oppressed.
How quickly history is forgotten and repeated!
What's most problematic to me about all of this is that the people who are wearing masks "for the greater good" will be the first to sign up for this shiny new vaccine that's had 0 longitudinal safety tests against an inert placebo.
What's more problematic to me is that this Vaccine MAY be the deciding factor in life moving forward.
You thought a mask was inconvenient? Wait until you're told that you cannot enter a store without proof of the Covid-19 vaccine. Wait until you cannot go to public events, or travel, without proof of having received this vaccine.
To everyone that doesn't believe this is possible - do you understand that our government just successfully dictated to people WHEN they were allowed to be outside, where they were allowed to go, and how their children would be educated, in less than 5 months? And that a majority of the population followed blindly because they were told to do so.
You're kidding yourself if you believe that they're not going to repeat this behavior with a vaccine.
If people have not protested the occurrences in America over the last 5 months, they will assuredly continue to abide by unsubstantiated "guidelines" that will include a vaccine.
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At Steak & Shake yesterday a sign on door said masks required to enter. Watched two young men walk in and the manager hand them masks to put on. Yes, I put the mask on my wife told me to wear. Once seated it came off. All workers were wearing masks. All customer removed masks once seated. My daughter took the card I had to pay the tab. I walked out after eating without putting mask back on. I guess if I had to go back in the mask would be worn. Oh, Church was same way, masks to enter and once inside the masks came off. Pastor still had hand sanitizer and wipes in the lobby. D>K
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Fred:
Put that way, it's quite ominous.
Looks as if we're in for a rough ride in the USA. Some of the freedoms already WILLINGLY surrendered to the idiots in control will likely never be restored.
:'(
''
Andre
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At Steak & Shake yesterday a sign on door said masks required to enter. Watched two young men walk in and the manager hand them masks to put on. Yes, I put the mask on my wife told me to wear. Once seated it came off. All workers were wearing masks. All customer removed masks once seated. My daughter took the card I had to pay the tab. I walked out after eating without putting mask back on. I guess if I had to go back in the mask would be worn. Oh, Church was same way, masks to enter and once inside the masks came off. Pastor still had hand sanitizer and wipes in the lobby. D>K
Hey John, ever heard of "diminishing returns".........that's what we have here .............. diminishing ..........all the way down to zero %. ......
Let's be real here. ...... It is all about control and conformity. D>K H^^
The truth is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=ru7egBTOxB8&feature=emb_logo
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worthy of watching is the video Robert and Terrence linked
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The lefy better think twice for what they wish for.
Andre,you are correct.
http://yt.vu/p/PLED64004A96BE76FA
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The masks and other protocols used by the general public are like putting a screen door on a submarine. Actually protecting yourself from something as small as a virus, or containing it, (which is actually much more difficult) requires far more than could practically be done on a mass scale.
Masks are an entirely psychological phenomenon, it makes you think you are doing *something", and actually have some control over a situation that you have no real control over. The underlying issue is that, having lived lives of obscene luxury and safety (for 3 generations now) people cannot fathom that there are situations beyond their practical control, and therefore demand a solution on the assumption that there must be one.
Ultimately, unless a vaccine is found in the next few months, I would guess the ultimate death toll will be about the (deaths per infection) *320 million. That seems to mean around 300,000-500,000 people might die in the USA. Assuming this was a naturally-developed virus, *it is no one's fault*, *nothing practical can be done to alter it*. Nature and the real world are a pretty harsh and there are some problems that *cannot be solved*, thinking that "this is the 21st century, we have moved beyond this sort of thing, this can't be happening to us!" is nonsense. We have been living a charmed life, but eventually probability catches up with you.
Of course, the "it takes a village" types are all too happy to promise to do something and be seen to be doing something, effective are not, and all too happy to find a "solution" that eliminates any semblance of personal choice, because it plays to their end goals, that is, eliminating the uniquely American concept of individual liberty.
Every proposed apocalyptic "crisis" for the last 50 years has, oddly, had the same solution.
It also gives you a clearly visible signal of this "compliance", and thus wearing a mask almost immediately became your indication of virtue, or not, so it makes you feel superior to be more conservative about "safety".
If you don't want to catch Wuhan Flu, then don't go out and wait at home for a vaccine. That is your only realistic method of avoiding infection. Not practical on a mass scale, of course, and no guarantees at all, but its what little you can actually do that is effective to protect yourself. Otherwise, you wearing a mask, or other people wearing masks, will accomplish exactly nothing for "safety".
Brett
p.s. Wuhan flu *absolutely is* a health crisis, it is a very real disease that you will almost certainly be exposed to (and maybe already have been), some chance of developing detectable symptoms from, and a very small but realistic chance of dying from. People who think it is entirely fake are probably just doing the same thing as the "safety screechers", they might realize that there is no real defense from it, and for their own peace of mind, must assume that it's just made-up. It definitely is not made up, the effects of been greatly exaggerated for purposes of manipulation, but very real and much more dangerous that a typical seasonal flu.
For certain groups, in fact, the statistics are staggering, if you are over 75 - 80, it's just short of a death sentence. Part of that is that in the most incompetent responses (New York and Florida), they had policies that nearly guaranteed exposure of large numbers of people already compromised to the point they were in nursing homes. A lot of this was avoidable with even simple precautions,
So I'm in Florida and wife a nurse in an assisted living facility. Exactly what are you talking about with Florida policies?
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So I'm in Florida and wife a nurse in an assisted living facility. Exactly what are you talking about with Florida policies?
I am not sure what you are referring to, I didn't say anything about any specific place.
My mistake, I meant California, but typed Florida - I was referring to the fact that the Governor (Cuomo and Newsome) insisted on sending active COVID-19 patients to nursing homes. In New York it proved devastating, California not so much - yet.
Your wife must be a very special person - assisted living/nursing home/hospice is an absurdly difficult and stressful job, anyone who does it for any length of time is quite extraordinary.
Brett
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For certain groups, in fact, the statistics are staggering, if you are over 75 - 80, it's just short of a death sentence. Part of that is that in the most incompetent responses (New York and Florida), they had policies that nearly guaranteed exposure of large numbers of people already compromised to the point they were in nursing homes. A lot of this was avoidable with even simple precautions,
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I have some issues with the assertion that wearing a piece of cloth is going to protect someone from a microbe so small it can easily filter through the cloth. It has been said long ago during other outbreaks that for a mask to protect someone it must meet specific criteria.
I do NOT believe wearing a piece of cloth is going to stop someone from getting the virus if they are exposed to it. If it did, why aren't medical professionals wearing cloth masks?
https://www.wsna.org/news/2020/cloth-masks-dont-protect-nurses
If you are asking how cloth masks can work for prevention in the non-healthcare setting, and then why not for healthcare workers, see 31 and 46 above. Healthcare workers are protecting themselves, and there isn't enough of that equipment for public use. Proper use of N95 masks also should have fit testing, not just purchase and use.
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I have some issues with the assertion that wearing a piece of cloth is going to protect someone from a microbe so small it can easily filter through the cloth. It has been said long ago during other outbreaks that for a mask to protect someone it must meet specific criteria.
I do NOT believe wearing a piece of cloth is going to stop someone from getting the virus if they are exposed to it. If it did, why aren't medical professionals wearing cloth masks?
Whilst the virus may be minute and easily pass through a cloth fabric, it is generally not freely airborne - so a 'pure' source is of minimal risk. Its primary transmission vector is aerosol ie. moist breath, coughs and sneezes. Contaminated water droplets are trapped by cloth hence masks dampen just through normal breathing. Healthcare professionals are catching it due to being hit with contamination from every side and shear volumes of contacts, in comparison normal day to day population contacts are minimal so pose a lower (but not zero) risk.
Each of us have our own lives, its a crap shoot - roll the dice in the game of life or health!
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This mask (see attached picture) is the best. Doesn't fog the glasses, easy to breathe, can still drink beer, smoke, or eat with it on.
But seriously: How "open" can the fibers in a mask be to still allow breathing, yet prevent the spread of the virus? The mask shown has openings of 1/2" or so. I've heard that the virus, when encapsulated in water droplets and exhaled, may be on the order of 5 microns. Cloth masks are not going to "filter" those particles. Cloth masks might turbulate the exhaled breath and prevent the virus from traveling as far -- so that's a benefit.
For me, I'm in "selective isolation". I will meet with people outside (not inside) and try to maintain at least 6' distance. That's my main line of defense. I'm counting on distancing, ventilation, hand washing.
I wear a mask indoors in stores because it's required and expected now, and it doesn't bother me -- not because I believe it works well. I'd wear one all day, everywhere if they would guarantee me that the ski areas will be open next season and not close them for COVID-19.
The "authorities" lose credibility when they issue "must wear mask" laws, yet don't wear masks themselves and create a long list of "exceptions" for mask wearing. The most extreme case of this is Lincoln county Oregon, where the "must wear a mask" law only applied to white people. (See here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/oregon-whites-only-masks/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/oregon-whites-only-masks/) As though the virus can tell whether it is being exhaled or inhaled by a "person of color" or not.....
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My county mask nazi ladies do not like my mask....tough
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Pat,
The simple approach is to make a bandana from an old T-shirt or similar cotton fabric. They are looking for an absorbent fabric to catch the droplets. They recommend a second layer of a non-woven material (like polyspan or silkspan) as a throw-a-way inside. Other option is a simple paper paint mask. None of these will work like an N95 mask but the idea is to knock down the airborne droplets from having a high concentration enter your nose or mouth and make it to your lungs. Kinda similar to why we wear a mask while spraying dope (not death paint which needs a much more efficient filter, some need an air pack), not the extreme but good enough and better than nothing.
From what I have read you need a certain time exposure to be infected, seem the more time you are exposed to an infected person the worse you could get it. The simple mask or even a bandana just give a little better chance of not getting to the critical exposure level particularly if both are wearing them. As has been mentioned these mask are not medical grade but will help some, so for me I have mine with me and wear it going into indoors to stores (as we all have to get food or fuel) or when in lines.
Best, DennisT
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I am not sure what you are referring to, I didn't say anything about any specific place.
My mistake, I meant California, but typed Florida - I was referring to the fact that the Governor (Cuomo and Newsome) insisted on sending active COVID-19 patients to nursing homes. In New York it proved devastating, California not so much - yet.
Your wife must be a very special person - assisted living/nursing home/hospice is an absurdly difficult and stressful job, anyone who does it for any length of time is quite extraordinary.
Brett
Got it. That makes sense now. NY sending covid patients back to their assisted living facilities was crazy.
Fl locked down assisted care facilities in march and they are still under the lock down...no visitors, no incoming with covid and 14 day quarantine, recurring testing and masks required.
bp
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They are now posting on the inter net the proper way to wear a mask. From what I read 1 out of a thousand is probably doing it right. First off once the mask is put on do not remove it unless you have a new replacement. Also hands must be washed each time before touching mask. But after reading the guide lines for proper use of wearing a mask, who is going to enjoy the profits of the sales if people followed them and how many factories will be started up to run 24 hour days 7 days a week and 365 days a years? D>K
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Lots of folks at work are using those neck wraps that pro fishermen have made popular. Designed for sun protection, I don’t know how effective the may be against viruses. I suspect not too effective but they may make an ok sneeze catcher?
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Guys, I'm going to go out on the limb and say I don't believe much of what the CDC, FDA or EPA says. They are all controlled by major corporations who are supposed to be monitored by those agencies. The CDC has already had to retract several incorrect public statements. \
It's far worse than merely being incorrect. They (all of these organizations) have made statements that they themselves have admitted were either exaggerations or not true, because they thought it would have the desired results - Fauci and Birx, too. So, not only were they wrong, they are lying, and they are not just lying, they are lying to manipulate the situation - and admitting to it later!
This sort of thing goes far beyond the Wuhan Flu, it's points to the idea that various people have determined, of their own volition, that they know better than everyone else, and will do or say anything to try to trick you into going along with it. Same with the various climate/environment frauds (overpopulation, ice ages, global warming), proven false time and again, and then later it comes out, "well, we figured you wouldn't to what we wanted, so we "improved" the truth").
When you hear people screech about "science" and how you must believe in it, this is more-or-less what they mean - blindly accepting authority assertions, true or not, concocted to manipulate you or not, simply because they are authorities. Note that most of the people screeching science are not scientists, but housewives, "soft scientists" (sociology, economics, environmentalists, etc, where there is no objective means of determining the truth), doctors (who are certainly not scientists, at least unless they are researchers - most doctors learn rote methods by trial and error, they know no more about viruses than what the drug rep tells them about it).
Anyone who talks about "believing the science" can be automatically dismissed, because the concept of "belief" is utterly incompatible with the scientific method and if you have to "believe" something about it, it is by definition unscientific. If you can't prove it, it's not science.
Brett
p.s. a second problem in this case is that *no one really knows* what is going on, but, they are asked to give their "scientific opinion" anyway, and feel obligated to say something. That is also unscientific, so they substitute their own inclinations on the topic.
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I can agree with "Doc" on this one. Follow the money. Lysol works, seen a new can lately?
I was certified on the "NBC" weapons we didn't have back in the late 60's. The rules we had for handling that crap were so ridiculous that the base could have been run over by an army of slow snails before we ever got those weapons ready to deploy by following the procedures.
The point that a mask is useless unless you do bla..bla..and bla is simply not true. They cut the distance you contaminate by a bunch, they remind you not to touch your face and they reduce the number of "My Pillows" made.
This virus has to run it's course. It will eventually infect every person who can get it and all we can do about it is find cures and vaccines. We can slow the rate of spread but probably not the size. The Democrats have absolutely no desire to stop it until after November and the Republicans can't do anything without the Democrats going along. So we die while they play a giant game of chess. We are screwed. All I wanted in life was one last shot at the Walker before I became a thread here. Now my family is so paranoid that even going to the field to mingle with my friends who share the same bucket list entry is nearly impossible.
What has happened to us? My father was on a mine sweeper at Normandy, his older brother flew the Polesti missions in a B-24 and his other older brother commanded a tank company during the Battle of the Bulge. They would roll over in their graves if they saw what this country has become. Hell, it may be too late already. I need to get my reservations in at the Arlington (TX) cemetery and kick off before it is too late!
Sorry about the rant, it just happened - Ken
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y1 y1 It's far worse than merely being incorrect. y1 y1
Everything in that post is dead on. My concern is Trump. IMHO he needs to fire his panel of experts but doing so will *probably* get Biden elected but not doing so *will* get Biden elected. They are moles and their goal is not to stop the virus, It is to stop Trump. I am ready for him to cite the old saying "it is better to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission" and fix this mess.
Ken
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Fred, I have a N95 mask for sanding and have a 3M half face mask for painting. I, also, have a 3M half face mask fitted with biological contamination filters that are the best available for CV19. I have worn this mask in the grocery store before.
Like somebody said, it is your life, if you want to trust a piece of cloth when professionals won't that is your decision. Myself, if I don't have a mask professionals will trust I would not go near people.
Who said Caveat Emptor?
I hope that you are also wearing a face shield. The healthcare workers are protecting themselves from those not wearing masks. A good cough, sneeze can inoculate through the eyes just as well. The cloth masks for the public are to limit the output of particulate, Healthcare workers are surrounded by those without masks, or who take masks off to be examined.
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Just saying....
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masks are not superman suits
Masks are my 3rd line of defense, a mask helps but not a much as distance.
My strategy is in most important to least.
1) minimize contact with others
2) minimize time in crowds and groups of people
3) Wear a mask when you cant do 1 or 2
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Of course masks can’t filter viruses. However viruses ride on moisture from breath, cough and sneezes. These are filtered by even the simplest cloth mask.
As a member of the most vulnerable group to death from this plague, I will wear a mask in public and ask you to do so too. Is it that hard to do?
Do it for me if not for yourself.
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As for masks, their use, and the expected enforcement of mandatory wearing of same, this video clip might be interesting to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udFEuuFxqs8
Andre
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Wait until you're told that you cannot enter a store without proof of the Covid-19 vaccine. Wait until you cannot go to public events, or travel, without proof of having received this vaccine.
To everyone that doesn't believe this is possible - do you understand that our government just successfully dictated to people WHEN they were allowed to be outside, where they were allowed to go, and how their children would be educated, in less than 5 months? And that a majority of the population followed blindly because they were told to do so.
You're kidding yourself if you believe that they're not going to repeat this behavior with a vaccine.
If people have not protested the occurrences in America over the last 5 months, they will assuredly continue to abide by unsubstantiated "guidelines" that will include a vaccine.
[/quote]
Do you think Faucci may have a financial interest in this vaccine? I for one, will not be vaccinated. n1
Cheers, Jerry
PS: I do what I damn well please thank you very much!
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Of course masks can’t filter viruses. However viruses ride on moisture from breath, cough and sneezes. These are filtered by even the simplest cloth mask.
As a member of the most vulnerable group to death from this plague, I will wear a mask in public and ask you to do so too. Is it that hard to do?
Do it for me if not for yourself.
Some need to understand this, yes a cloth mask is a sieve but even a sieve can catch a drop of water sometimes, and a mask only needs to catch that one drop of moisture with the virus on it to save your life, as 61 year old former smoker, I'm wearing a mask.
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Pedigree:
42 years active duty and civilian service...retired Army Command Sergeants major...retired Operational Test Command test officer....
One product tested was for Joint Forces Command Norfolk VA...a geospatial mapping and software for pandemics....
yes Virginia the national command authority has folks responsible for protecting the USA in all natural and man made disasters....we do have massive stocks of necessary things....that these assets were not called in speaks a lot about this so called pandemic.....
Gee...with the exception of one MASH in NY due to an idiot Government, we have not deployed MOST available assets....the hospital ships, at great cost were not used...
My county still is ZERO death from covid....
Get you critical thinking cap on and stop this hand wringing pee in your pants fear....you, we ---all ,are being played
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Well with the present Democrats, leftist and others had spent their time taking care of the people instead of trying to get rid of a president that had not taken an oath of office we would not be in this shape. I hope come election time that the electoral college does what is right and does not let the goveners of their states threaten then into voting the way the democzars want them to vote. How can we have a president that does not know where he is, what day of the week it is and want a running mate that has stated in numerous speeches they want to change this country to the country they left. As far as Socialism, look at the countries now under socialism what shape they are in. Also as far as the BLM agenda, why not change it to Human Lives Matter. The media wont show the shootings by black people in the black areas in which they are shooting their own people including children. As far as the police departments they need to start hiring police that live in the area they will be serving. Of course that would be Black police in Black neighborhoods and non blacks in non black areas. I know here our police department says you must live within the city limits to serve/work here. S?P
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( I hope come election time that the electoral college does what is right and does not let the goveners of their states threaten them into voting the way the democzars want them to vote. )
Didn't the Supreme Court just vote, that the electoral college has to vote accordingly as their states majority vote.
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But did you see where a couple of the states said the college will vote according to the governor or lose their position? D>K
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I just read that the states must honor the Supreme Courts ruling. That the states elecotoral college represntatives must honor the choice of their states voters.
The justices unanimously rejected the claim that electors have a right under the Constitution to defy their states and vote for the candidate of their choice. "Electors are not free agents," Justice Elena Kagan said for the court.
They are to vote for the candidate whom the states voters have chosen.
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Well, I no longer live in eastern Oklahoma. I now live in the Muscogee Indian Nation, for the Supreme Court has decreed that the Muscogee Nation is now sovereign. Thus the eastern portion of Oklahoma is now the Mocogee Nation! The left is going to great lengths to divide the red states.
This will be interesting.
Andre
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What is Europe doing? How did they get a handle on the infection rate?
South Korea as of June 30, 2020
Number of confirmed cases: 12800
Number of deaths: 282
First with wide spread infections after China.
Population of South Korea: 51 million. If they had 300 million like us, doing the math,
projected number of deaths (roughly): 1692
The virus takes a ride on our bodily fluids. A cloth or even layered paper mask means you keep your spit to yourself as you speak.
How about our free market medical system that some here have extolled?
Three months ago the same folks peddling their wisdom insisted Covid 19 a hoax. The spread of Covid 19 attributed to socialized medicine.
Making America number 1 again. 133,000 and counting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That number of 133,00 is straight up bullshit and anyone with a brain knows it. Every other cause of death in the US is down from last year. You think that's a coincidence you're high. When they lie to you by counting all deaths as COVID you can't believe anything they tell you. Fauci is as crooked as a mud fence and hasn't been right about anything he's predicted for over 30 years. They can't even get the story straight about how it's transmitted. Three days ago a WHO doctor announced that it can only be transmitted by a person who is actively showing signs of illness (coughjing, sneezing, fever, etc). So why did we put all the healthy people under house arrest. You can catch it at Church or voting but not at Walmart. You can catch it at the beach, but not at the liquor or pot store. Right..................Sick of the lies and bullshit
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What is Europe doing? How did they get a handle on the infection rate?
South Korea as of June 30, 2020
Number of confirmed cases: 12800
Number of deaths: 282
First with wide spread infections after China.
Population of South Korea: 51 million. If they had 300 million like us doing the math,
projected number of deaths (roughly): 1692
The virus takes a ride on our bodily fluids. A cloth or even layered paper mask means you keep your spit to yourself as you speak.
How about our free market medical system that some here have extolled?
Three months ago the same folks peddling their wisdom insisted Covid 19 a hoax. The spread of Covid 19 attributed to socialized medicine.
Making America number 1 again. 133,000 and counting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s easy. The other countries are reporting on it honestly, and we aren’t. Why aren’t we? Easy. The presence of Donald J Trump in the White House, a situation the political left cannot stand and will literally do anything to change.
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All those fakes stuffed into ICUS. The refrigerator trucks on their way to the Midwest and South, staged. A wise one here theorized the same a few months back about events in Europe. Covid would never come here. The “truth” Teller in Chief started this Culture War to distract and confuse the gullible. Suits his purposes. I wonder how. A culture war over what? Whether or not to take basic precautions for health. Of course no one gets anywhere near him without being tested that day.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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67 percent
33 percent
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Went to two doctors this week . My regular med Doctor has you wait in car and you do not get out of car with out temp check and mask. No mask go home. They offer you a free mask if needed. Next day went to eye doctor and you do not get in building without mask. They offer free one if needed. No staff has been sick in ether office. Both were large firms in Concord NC. I live in very rural area 30 miles from Charlotte. Charlotte is a hot spot.
I do not have a voice in what you do just telling you what you will run into so be prepared.
Ed
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I'm not a conspiracy theorist in any way, it is not a hoax, it was not man made and Bill Gates is not trying to kill old people to corner the market on vaccines, (That last one is hilarious and my poor brother honestly believes it) That being said the US death rate numbers are definitely inflated, but also that being said other Country's most definitely did a better job, fact is most of the world dropped the ball on this and when it's over we need to hold our Governments accountable.
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Here in the St. Louis area, they spent millions of dollars to built a huge refrigerated warehouse to store the bodies and I think they may have put one or two in there. They also spent millions of dollars to convert a local hotel into an overflow hospital with a high fence and gate around it that is right around the corner from where I live, and it never saw a patient but was guarded by a State Trooper 24 hours a day. Now even with the recent "spikes" (which I think is over inflated) they have dismantled the over flow hospital. We now have the mandatory mask rule for everyone except the "peaceful" protesters.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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My very at risk ass climed on two AA flights today to visit a dear ailing Army buddy in Alabama
Embry Air 145....47 pax
No service, no alcohol,,,,period!
In airport mandatory mask....same on plane
I have a photo but will let others describe a Embry145 Regional jet seating......so much for distancing...
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Hi All,
I'm just one of those curious people that need to know how stuff works. I've been reading articles and reference papers and watching loads of YouTube videos on this subject and trying hard to apply my own technical common sense to this whole issue since it started. On thing is for sure is that the whole world has been mostly scammed and that's why many call it a "scamdemic". There are however so many good honest scientists out there that do not have political agenda's or are trying to get rich selling books, so there is really no excuse for not finding out what is really going down. I could make a list of all of these folks but it is loooooong! Just this morning I watched a good old common sense doctor on the PragerU channel that sums up so many basic questions up really well and it makes for good listening. With all of the recent data facts available right now this makes perfect sense IMHO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1z664H7EiA
Keith R
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Thanks Keith. That is the best interview I have seen with out a agenda.
Ed
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So where does it leave the older folks or the more susceptible with health issues that would like to continue their lives as before the virus? The doctor points out the "ineffectiveness" of masks and the problems with large crowd gatherings. He goes on to promote the opening everything and states younger people are such a low risk they have little to worry about almost to the point where he implies the rest of us are overreacting. I would have liked to see here more concern for the older folks; how the unaffected younger population should conduct themselves with consideration of the surrounding more susceptible.
Are we supposed to stay locked down while the world goes on with little regard for our health? Interesting also the doc begins pointing out how there are many out there promoting books and making money from the virus opportunity then he concludes saying he is writing a book? Seems a bit contradictory doesn't it? Is he just another out there hyping their opinion for financial benefit? I think I'll stay with Dr. Fauci, he's my age and makes more sense.
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I think I'll stay with Dr. Fauci, he's my age and makes more sense.
Your first challenge will be WHICH whim of Fauci are you going to stay with? He's changed and morphed his story so many times it's hard to follow.
Andre
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Can you blame him..... now that he is not under the constraints of Trump's bogus national virus taskforce he is speaking more freely and telling the public the real facts.
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Hey, why should it be a "challenge" for us? Because the "Young and Restless" or I should say "Careless" don't give a damn about the older society??
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https://youtu.be/o3PnDd_Qyig
I got this link this morning from a friend. Lots of common sense in it. I don't trust Fauci as far as I could throw his dead carcass. If there is anyone that is profiting from this scamdemic it's him. Big pharma can be pretty ruthless. He often talks about how long it may take to get a vaccine, but in reality they may now want to find a vaccine or cure. There is much more money in treatments. I think they could cure the common cold, which is a corona virus, but then who would buy all the cold symptom relief products out there!?? Same with the Aids virus. Many virus' out there with no vaccine but plenty of "treatments" available. Most of the inflated death figures have been elderly people that already had serious health issues threatening their lives. Many people in nursing homes have died, and I don't mean to sound cold hearted, but nursing homes are where people go to die when they can not take care of themselves. The saddest part about that is the fact that they will not let families be there with them in their final moments, and I don't not see the problem with family being there to say goodbye as long as they wear proper protection. In my family, it is a private sort of joke that non of us want to waist away in a nursing home, and we all refer to them with a nick name, " The Check out Lane." On the other hand, many elderly people, even over 100 years old, are surviving. You can't trust the media to give you correct information. I don't care what the numbers say, numbers are like Play-Doh, you can make anything you want out of them. There are still many, many more people dying from other common diseases that aren't warranting a pandemic decree. Over as million from Tuberculosis alone. Between this virus issue and the ongoing instigation of violence by radical left wing groups, what we are witnessing in this country at this time is a coup attempt , flat, plain and simple. If you can not see or understand this, the unprecedented happenings and actions being taken against a sitting president, you need to have paid attention a little more to history classes.
I hope the link works. If it doesn't, some one help me out!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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WOW...
Something to ponder. The gasoline molecule is larger than the water molecule that COVID 19 virus rides on. There is a lot of scientific testing which concludes that the masks being worn are at best shown to be null at preventing the spread of viruses. That is, not sown to be effective and not shown to be ineffective. In all tests, when there was a positive effect, that positive was in combination with other elements such as washing hands which is considered far more effective.
If you want to know how effective your mask is, a simple test can be done. Since a gasoline molecule is much larger than a water molecule it should be more readily stopped by a mask. Put your mask on, remove the cap on your gas tank and give it a sniff. If you can smell gasoline, your mask is not sufficient to stop the gasoline molecule which large than the water molecule with the virus on it, your mask is not preventing the passage of the virus. In other words, that mask is neither keeping you safe nor is it keeping others safe.
You don't have to accept what I say and your opinion is your opinion. Two of us disagree. The common ground is I allow you to go about your day wearing your mask and keeping you distance and you allow me to go about my day not wearing a mask and giving you your space you want. Tyranny is when either of us forcibly impose our will on the other.
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Can you blame him..... now that he is not under the constraints of Trump's bogus national virus taskforce he is speaking more freely and telling the public the real facts.
If you think fauci didn't have the balls to tell the "facts" when under Trump, what makes you think he is credible now? It sounds like you are saying he was untruthful then but truthful now. You have one choice of four options with fauci...right, wrong misleading and all of the above.
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Who can believe any body these days. My eighth grade teacher used to tell us not to tell stories with out fact or as she would say it, " believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see". In Church this morning the Pastor's wife did the service. Lesson on English and Treason. As she went I wonder why no lawyer has guts enough to charge the people for treason as they started impeachment procedings before our President Trump was even elected as well as before he even took the oath of office. But, I guess when you are rich enough you can buy your way out of any crime as has happened in the past with several that are still running free If you don't believe it go look at the stuff that has been aired and has been proven false or not verifiable. Nothing like ruining a person life also by making him say things and making it look like he is guilty. What happened to the laws of purjury when when keep saying what they different from what they said months before. Any way I wear my mask to get past the entrance and then keep distance from people. No shaking hands or hugging any more. D>K
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Here you go. n~ LL~
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Coups, tyranny, treason whatever wander on..... somewhere in the middle is the truth as they always say. The fact is we have some states that have decided not to practice safe distancing, closing down gathering environments, or insisting people wear masks and they are in big trouble. Whatever numbers you want to get behind check out Arizona, as of this morning the hospitals reported they are almost out of ICU beds statewide, cases are hitting highest in the country and deaths are climbing daily. Now compare New York where people got smart, they learned the benefits of the expert's recommendations, and even are you ready WORE MASKS. Believe what you like and when we hit 200K COVID deaths by the election no big deal right?
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I recently purchased a handle from Chris Cox. Included in the package were a couple of wonderful hand made masks courtesy of Joan Cox. My flight test wearing my new mask this morning were inconclusive. More testing to be conducted soon.
Tim
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Coups, tyranny, treason whatever wander on..... somewhere in the middle is the truth as they always say. The fact is we have some states that have decided not to practice safe distancing, closing down gathering environments, or insisting people wear masks and they are in big trouble. Whatever numbers you want to get behind check out Arizona, as of this morning the hospitals reported they are almost out of ICU beds statewide, cases are hitting highest in the country and deaths are climbing daily. Now compare New York where people got smart, they learned the benefits of the expert's recommendations, and even are you ready WORE MASKS. Believe what you like and when we hit 200K COVID deaths by the election no big deal right?
You are just buying into the fear mongering that they are perpetrating. All of that was said about New York when all of this crap started so Trump ordered a US Navy hospital ship to deploy to New York Harbor after Cuomo threw a few hissy fits. A week later, it was pulled out after it was discovered it was not really needed and I don't think it ever saw a patient. Notice that they did not close down the subway system, which is just a really long underground petri dish! Lots and lots of verified stories of news footage being staged for the cameras to keep the fire stoked. I don't believe anything that comes out of New York or anyone with the last name of Cuomo.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Tim,
Did you experience spatial disorientation or hypoxia? If the latter I'd look for another mask.
Steve
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Dan,
That's a real pile of confusion and misinformation I won't even bother responding to. I guess though I should have tossed in the Florida example as well but I know it wouldn't have made much difference, you don't accept the facts. Why don't we just table the argument until after November when Trump is asked to leave his safety bunker claiming to be our hero. I suspect (hopefully) perhaps by then the non-believers will eventually catch on but what's another 70K deaths right no big deal.
Steve
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Steve:
If you're indeed concerned about innocent lives being killed, please say something to your chosen party about abortion/Planned Parenthood. The abortion figures are staggering. There will be something like 800,000+ babies aborted this year alone. Some years that figure is above 1 million.
Last total figure I heard some time ago is that 35+ MILLION babies have been killed since abortion was legalized.
SO, do you sincerely want to get onboard and protect the innocent in a known and factual struggle? Do you honestly want to stop destruction of life that is fact-based? Then join us and help vote out those lawmakers that support such atrocities.
Oh wait, you think we conservatives are the "bad guys/gals"... so you'll likely continue to buy into whatever lunacy and hypocricy your party tells you to.
Thus, you can peddle your false concern elsewhere, for if you won't take a stand against abortion, then whatever you say about saving the innocent is pretty much empty words and feigned concern.
Andre
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Andre,
False concerns??? You have to learn to pick your battles, I voted and was behind Mr. Trump until he let me down. I also don't agree with abortions as a practicing Catholic so don't lay that on me. I'm not a lefty listening to the lunacy of that side either. Regardless of the higher death rate from other means such as auto accidents, viruses and abortions why should I stand by and consider the COVID 19 as a mundane annoyance driven by political thinking when people are dying from it every day. This makes no sense. You'll have to do better to convince me to side with your thinking. Keep in mind the number 200k dead by November, if the thought doesn't have an impact on you I feel sorry for you and the right base blindly standing behind Donald Trump.
Steve
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Andre,
False concerns??? You have to learn to pick your battles, I voted and was behind Mr. Trump until he let me down. I also don't agree with abortions as a practicing Catholic so don't lay that on me. I'm not a lefty listening to the lunacy of that side either. Regardless of the higher death rate from other means such as auto accidents, viruses and abortions why should I stand by and consider the COVID 19 as a mundane annoyance driven by political thinking when people are dying from it every day. This makes no sense. You'll have to do better to convince me to side with your thinking. Keep in mind the number 200k dead by November, if the thought doesn't have an impact on you I feel sorry for you and the right base blindly standing behind Donald Trump.
Steve
And everything that you just quoted you learned from the left leaning liberal media, and that includes the death meter, which we know is greatly inflated. If it wasn't held under a micro scope, you wouldn't hear anything about it. It it wasn't being driven by some nefarious agenda, it wouldn't be of anyone's interest. 200K by November? Howe about more than a million from Tuberculosis by then? It's even an air borne disease, no one has to spit on you. Forget about abortions if you want, doctors kill people every day. The numbers are staggering, but all the focus is put on the covid bug, and we know why!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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I was going to say; The virus is here, It will be here forever, and if you don't get it this year, and you live long enough, you will most certainly get it at some point. Are all you pro maskers going to wear masks for the rest of your life? If you're not prepared to do that, you're wasting your time.
As usual, Brett's argument was far more eloquent, and 100% correct.
Derek
What they said,,, I wont be wearing one, oh you don't like it, then stay away from me, at least 6 feet lol #^
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Andre,
False concerns??? You have to learn to pick your battles, I voted and was behind Mr. Trump until he let me down. I also don't agree with abortions as a practicing Catholic so don't lay that on me. I'm not a lefty listening to the lunacy of that side either. Regardless of the higher death rate from other means such as auto accidents, viruses and abortions why should I stand by and consider the COVID 19 as a mundane annoyance driven by political thinking when people are dying from it every day. This makes no sense. You'll have to do better to convince me to side with your thinking. Keep in mind the number 200k dead by November, if the thought doesn't have an impact on you I feel sorry for you and the right base blindly standing behind Donald Trump.
Steve
Steve, do you understand how COVID-19 deaths are counted?
John Doe is walking down the street when 3 thugs decide to riddle him with bullets. He falls and bleeds to death. The coroner determines that, while he completely recovered, he had active COVID-19 at one time.
He's a COVID-19 fatality. Yup, with all the folks dying of heart failure, strokes, cancer, auto accidents, etc., it'll be a wonder if we don't hit at least 300,000 by election time. SOME will actually die due to the virus!
Dennis
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New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, in a recent CNN interview, said the Big Apple is going to have to do without parades, fairs, concerts, and other gatherings that allow citizens to gather and socialize. But Black Lives Matter protests are - to paraphrase - "just too important at this time". No curtailing them.
Think you're being played?
Dennis
PS: Mask or no mask not an issue here, I don't mind making others feel more safe. But it can't be more obvious that much of what we see is an abuse of power. Example: The Governor of Washington State declared masks mandatory in about 4 Counties, but made it optional for people of color.
Again: Think you're being played?
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"I also don't agree with abortions as a practicing Catholic so don't lay that on me."
Steve, if you intentionally vote for the very party that most vehemently advocates abortion/Planned Parenthood, then you are indeed part of the problem with that issue. I'm not laying anything on you, you're taking it upon yourself. You are saying by your vote: "Go for it. These unborn children are much less important than getting rid of Trump".
I'm not a staunch Trump advocate. As I've mentioned in other threads here, this upcoming election is FAR MORE IMPORTANT and FAR TRANSCENDS the personality quirks of the one's that are in the running. It's the IDEALS of the party that must be gravely considered before casting the vote.
In addition to my stance on the abortion issue, I'll also say that as a person that is trying to follow the teachings of Christ, I can NOT for the life of me understand how ANY person that wants to follow the teachings of Christ as a guideline for their lives, could EVER vote for such an anti-God, anti-American, anti-freedom, anti-capitalist, anti-Constitution, anti-Bill of Rights, anti-everything that helped make this Nation the greatest nation on earth, could EVER vote for what the Democrat party has become.
I will be voting for the party (in this case the GOP) that I feel will give me the best chance of holding on to as many freedoms as I can and hopefully stave off socialism/communism/totalitarianism/etc for 4 more years.
I sincerely implore you to consider the above points. This upcoming election is SO MUCH MORE than "not liking Trump". Our very foundations as a Nation are at stake. Please let that sink in.
Andre
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Ohio man, 37, dies from coronavirus after claiming the pandemic which has killed more than 135,000 people was just 'hype' in a facebook post
A 37-year-old Ohio man who claimed the coronavirus pandemic was just 'hype' and repeatedly refused to wear a face mask has died from COVID-19.
Richard Rose, a staunch supporter of Donald Trump, wrote on facebook on July 1 that he was experiencing COVID-19 symptoms, and went to get tested.
The US Army veteran, who served for nine years and did two tours of Iraq and Afghanistan, tested positive.
He died from the virus at his home in Port Clinton, Ohio, on July 4.
Richard Rose (left), 37, of Ohio, who claimed the coronavirus pandemic was just 'hype' in a facebook post (top right), has died from COVID-19. Rose wrote on facebook that he was experiencing symptoms on July 1 and went to get tested. The US Army veteran tested positive and died from the virus at his home just two days later. He claimed on April 28 that the pandemic was just 'hype', saying: 'Let make this clear. I'm not buying a f**king mask. I've made it this far by not buying into that damn hype.' Leading up to his death, Rose shared updates about his health, writing on July 1: 'I've been very sick the past few days. Symptoms of Covid-19. This morning I finally got swabbed. I should know soon what the results are. I just want to feel good again!' Later that day he revealed that he had tested positive for the virus
Mr. Rose died on July 4, 2020.; PLEASE STAND AT ATTENTION AS HIS CASKET PASSES BY.
GC
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Here you go. n~ LL~
Like that.
Had one just like that on my 71 Nova SS back in the day.
God how I wish that I kept that car !
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The sheeple are being programed to obey the new rule of the day. Why we are going to lose our hobby over the next few years. The do gooders are trying to save the world while doing their best to kill the world.
That guy in that video made more sense than 97 percent of what you hear on the lying news media every day. Thanks for putting that up Dan. A guy with some common sense which is very lacking these days. The hypocrisy of these do gooders is so off base.
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Something to ponder. The gasoline molecule is larger than the water molecule that COVID 19 virus rides on.
Something else to ponder: how many molecules of various elements and compounds does it take to make up a single Coronavirus spore (or whatever they're called)? The idea of one of those 'riding' on a single water molecule is not something that will stand up to serious examination. It's droplets on which the virus can ride, not individual molecules, and a good mask can filter out even 'aerosol'-sized droplets.
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Coups, tyranny, treason whatever wander on..... somewhere in the middle is the truth as they always say. The fact is we have some states that have decided not to practice safe distancing, closing down gathering environments, or insisting people wear masks and they are in big trouble. Whatever numbers you want to get behind check out Arizona, as of this morning the hospitals reported they are almost out of ICU beds statewide, cases are hitting highest in the country and deaths are climbing daily. Now compare New York where people got smart, they learned the benefits of the expert's recommendations, and even are you ready WORE MASKS. Believe what you like and when we hit 200K COVID deaths by the election no big deal right?
Nobody is saying covid is no big deal except you.
As far as following NY because they "got smart"...NY and Florida have almost the same population hovering around 20M. NY deaths are 32k+ and Fl deaths at 4k+. NY sent covid patients to senior facilities and infected 1000s. Fl locked senior facilities down in March and they are still on lock down. Florida cases are increasing rapidly while the death rate dropping. NY govt never listened to the experts until it was too late, they just killed 1000s of innocent citizens due to stupidity.
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Just for fun take a look at South Dakota and real leadership. No mandatory shutdown. Governor Kristi Noem - beautiful as well as smart and decisive - maintained it's government's job to educate people as well as possible, then let them make decisions. 109 deaths so far,
Sure, you can argue the population is low, but Rapid City for example isn't exactly the wilderness. We love it there, would leave Minnesota in a heartbeat but my son will be a senior in the fall and leaving his friends now would be a bummer.
Protests: She had National Guard troops in place in several cities BEFORE any significant problems could arise. Sioux Falls had ONE night of rioting and vandalism in one particular area as I understand it; next day TV station began running videos and citizens started turning troublemakers in.
Vehicles blocking roads were towed away promptly, with applauding citizens lining streets as they went by.
Wahoo! Leadership! Go Girl!
Dennis
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She must not be a true democrat or leftist. D>K
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Republican all the way, Doc! South Dakota is a great Conservative state ... and blessed by Mother Nature!
Dennis
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Prof. Denis Rancourt of Canada has recently written a letter to the boss of the WHO to debunk the insistence of masks for the general public. The paper has many scientific references to back up what the scientific understanding of this highly emotional subject has always been. It's not like this virus is a sudden huge difference from any other bad virus that has hit the world before, so the real question that any critical thinker should ask is why all of a sudden is this over-reaction being perpetrated? . If you are really interested then watch of few of his other YouTube videos. This document is well worth the read and make sure to check out the references as well.
Keith R
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Prof. Denis Rancourt of Canada has recently written a letter to the boss of the WHO to debunk the insistence of masks for the general public. The paper has many scientific references to back up what the scientific understanding of this highly emotional subject has always been. It's not like this virus is a sudden huge difference from any other bad virus that has hit the world before, so the real question that any critical thinker should ask is why all of a sudden is this over-reaction being perpetrated? . If you are really interested then watch of few of his other YouTube videos. This document is well worth the read and make sure to check out the references as well.
Keith R
That's an earful - and well written. Thanks Keith!
I spent 7-1/2 year in scientific research - and don't recall ever using the terms "stigmatization", "making people feel", "reminding people", "encouraging the public", "offer a source of income", "cultural expression" in reports on my projects.
In other words, the letter points out what we already know - WHO may or may not offer correct information, but they are beyond doubt a biased political entity that doesn't serve American interests.
As far as the science summarized - we could obtain recommendations from a local garbage collector that would be about equally fact-based.
Once again: Are we being played?
Dennis
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Big difference between past epidemics and now is the inter-net. Here in the USA is politicians who didn't accomplish what they started back before an election was even done. Now the media reports what the politicians want them to report with the exception of a couple of reporters who can't be bought. Who is getting the profits from the manufacture of the face masks? I asked the wife, "Why $9.95 for a face mask"? She stated it is the little port hole filters that filter the air. Went to Wal-Mart and the young man counting number of people entering did not have a mask, but I didn't bring it up as he was already inside and was over 6 foot from partition between him and customers. D>K
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WOW...
Something to ponder. The gasoline molecule is larger than the water molecule that COVID 19 virus rides on. There is a lot of scientific testing which concludes that the masks being worn are at best shown to be null at preventing the spread of viruses. That is, not sown to be effective and not shown to be ineffective. In all tests, when there was a positive effect, that positive was in combination with other elements such as washing hands which is considered far more effective.
If you want to know how effective your mask is, a simple test can be done. Since a gasoline molecule is much larger than a water molecule it should be more readily stopped by a mask. Put your mask on, remove the cap on your gas tank and give it a sniff. If you can smell gasoline, your mask is not sufficient to stop the gasoline molecule which large than the water molecule with the virus on it, your mask is not preventing the passage of the virus. In other words, that mask is neither keeping you safe nor is it keeping others safe.
You don't have to accept what I say and your opinion is your opinion. Two of us disagree. The common ground is I allow you to go about your day wearing your mask and keeping you distance and you allow me to go about my day not wearing a mask and giving you your space you want. Tyranny is when either of us forcibly impose our will on the other.
Mark, That goes right along with Sparky's analogy of the "Fart"...........molecule. LL~ LL~
Jerry
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Excellent question Doc!
Nearly $1 billion deal to receive 200 million masks per month from a Chinese manufacturer.
The California Senate and Assembly have also been kept in the dark about the deal.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/05/gov-newsom-rejects-request-for-details-on-1b-china-mask-deal/ (https://nypost.com/2020/05/05/gov-newsom-rejects-request-for-details-on-1b-china-mask-deal/)
Id like to see his bank account and tax records.
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Heartening to hear this conversation. A bit of moderation. Rate of infection down to .98 percent in NYC. Looks like strict clear guidelines of simple health practices, which include wearing masks, have turned the situation around. There have been days without any deaths. 8.5 million people in NYC, more population than 37 states. Everyone densely pact. This is quite an achievement.
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Heartening to hear this conversation. A bit of moderation. Rate of infection down to .98 percent in NYC. Looks like strict clear guidelines of simple health practices, which include wearing masks, have turned the situation around. There have been days without any deaths. 8.5 million people in NYC, more population than 37 states. Everyone densely pact. This is quite an achievement.
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And you really don't have any idea that any of that wasn't true before? You are getting this information from the same sketchy sources as when this all started. And you really think everyone is wearing masks?
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Not sure what the big deal is about wearing a simple mask and keeping some distance when with a group of people is, even if it is only minimally effective. This is one of those things that seems like a no brainer. Seems it works in other countries that have gone through this.
Looking at the NATS videos it seems that only a very few people are wearing masks in the group bull sessions. I can see when you are out on the flight line as there is plenty of space but under the tents is a different story. I guess they will be a medical experiment. We will see.
Best, DennisT
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Not sure what the big deal is about wearing a simple mask and keeping some distance when with a group of people is, even if it is only minimally effective. This is one of those things that seems like a no brainer. Seems it works in other countries that have gone through this.
Looking at the NATS videos it seems that only a very few people are wearing masks in the group bull sessions. I can see when you are out on the flight line as there is plenty of space but under the tents is a different story. I guess they will be a medical experiment. We will see.
Best, DennisT
I agree with you Dennis; my son and I were out running errands for several hours today and wearing a mask for a brief time is fine with me if it makes others more comfortable. But - as Dad used to say - "It's the principle of the thing".
The video posted above points out a few absurdities. Why is it OK for hundreds of people to scream and shout in Minneapolis for several days, but typical hour-long worship services must be limited to "about 12 people"? I can't step into McDonald's to place an order, but I can step into the adjoining gas station to purchase lottery tickets?
I believe the real issue is "control". Politicians typically love it, especially those of a particular flavor!
Dennis
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Something else to ponder: how many molecules of various elements and compounds does it take to make up a single Coronavirus spore (or whatever they're called)? The idea of one of those 'riding' on a single water molecule is not something that will stand up to serious examination. It's droplets on which the virus can ride, not individual molecules, and a good mask can filter out even 'aerosol'-sized droplets.
Just to expand on that a little after a bit of checking.
A water molecule is ~.3 nanometres in diameter.
The virus is ~125 nanometres in diameter so about 420 times larger than water molecule.
Experiments have shown that some of the smallest water vapour from breathing is ~6000 nanometeres in diameter or roughly 15 times larger than the virus.
Of course these figures are simply diameters but if you then consider VOLUMES the differences get rather dramatic (roughly speaking the cube of the diameters so 15x15x15 or ~3000 viruses in the smallest water vapour).
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Heartening to hear this conversation. A bit of moderation. Rate of infection down to .98 percent in NYC. Looks like strict clear guidelines of simple health practices, which include wearing masks, have turned the situation around.
When you kill tens of thousands of the vulnerable in the first six weeks, you don't have many people left to kill 3 months later. That doesn't seem like much to be proud of.
New York is a perfect example of what NOT to do, Cuomo and De Blasio have exhibited deadly incompetence. 32,000+ deaths, population 19 million. California 7300 deaths, population 40 million - and that's a guy whose chief job qualification is filling a suit.
New York has 6% of the US population, and 24% of the deaths. That's a national disgrace, typical of totalitarian governments run like a banana republic, give a lot of stupid orders, kill a lot of people through bumbling (including more-or-less intentionally infecting senior citizens who make up the vast majority of the victims), and proclaim it a success.
Figures you would be bragging about it.
Brett
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Of course Brett is right....he's NEVER been wrong. NY pioneered response, and TREATMENT. Lots was learned and lots dies while finding treatment.
I'm enjoying a week of self-quarantine while awaiting test results.
They have learned a ton about treatment.
I watch the videos of the Nats....talk about thinning the herd.....
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Dennis,
I understand the idea of being told vs advised to do something. I think we need to think of this a not a political issue but simply self preservation by doing something that could help prevent one from getting infected with something that could be deadly. In some states they have mandated mask and others (like here in FL) recommend but don't require. It seems that officials are not explaining the possible benefits. In states without the requirement there seems to be a lot who think "well its not a requirement so its ok to go back to normal". Seems some people need to have a mandate, they don't think it through and take it as "control" rather than public heath. The reality is that there is no way that the government could enforce the requirement to any great extent but just having it in place works for some that need to be told. So for them OK we have rules. For the rest of, we will use common sense and protect ourselves, family and friends whether the tell us to or not.
As far as NY most of the cases were in the burbs close around NYC. For these people they used mass transit (packed subways, trains and busses not to clean at that) and worked in high rise buildings, just lots of people in very close quarters. It seems places where people were very close together were the hot spots. It then spreads outward to the surrounding communities. When this started no one really understood how fast it could spread. No one had any better ideas as to how to handle this and slowly they have learned things that can help we but are still learning,
Best, DennisT
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Dennis,
I understand the idea of being told vs advised to do something. I think we need to think of this a not a political issue but simply self preservation by doing something that could help prevent one from getting infected with something that could be deadly. In some states they have mandated mask and others (like here in FL) recommend but don't require. It seems that officials are not explaining the possible benefits. In states without the requirement there seems to be a lot who think "well its not a requirement so its ok to go back to normal". Seems some people need to have a mandate, they don't think it through and take it as "control" rather than public heath. The reality is that there is no way that the government could enforce the requirement to any great extent but just having it in place works for some that need to be told. So for them OK we have rules. For the rest of, we will use common sense and protect ourselves, family and friends whether the tell us to or not.
As far as NY most of the cases were in the burbs close around NYC. For these people they used mass transit (packed subways, trains and busses not to clean at that) and worked in high rise buildings, just lots of people in very close quarters. It seems places where people were very close together were the hot spots. It then spreads outward to the surrounding communities. When this started no one really understood how fast it could spread. No one had any better ideas as to how to handle this and slowly they have learned things that can help we but are still learning,
Best, DennisT
DennisT, I think we will have to agree to disagree. As previously stated, I spent 7-1/2 years in scientific research. Please read the open letter to the WHO and point out the fact-based scientific proof that masks reduce infections or deaths.
Then please point out the CDC’s basis for concluding the same - oh wait, their recommendations seem to depend on the day of the week. Last I heard they recommend masks but add lots of qualifiers, especially with regard to daily washing of cloth masks.
We here in Minnesota have a very experienced doctor who also serves as a Republican State Senator. He’s often interviewed on national television programs. Early on he pointed out the ridiculous guidelines issued for counting “COVID deaths” and also the very contradictory statements issued - literally simultaneously - by the CDC. As a reward he’s now being investigated on the basis of complaints filed - by individuals he’s not allowed to know - for what is essentially malpractice. You really think it’s not political?
How about some forecasts:
(1) Our economy will continue to suffer greatly - my wife and I noted just a couple of hours ago two businesses that have just closed in a mall we frequent.
(2) Schools here in Minnesota will not re-open for in-person classes. Our Democratic Governor, who is operating under “Emergency Powers”, and the Teachers Union will determine that course without regard to the experiences of other states/nations with schools that are in session as I write this.
(3) Forget any notion of Presidential Debates. Joe Biden today called Arizona a “great city”. His handlers cannot in any way let him be put to the test. The pandemic will be the excuse.
(4) Watch the number of suicides and mental health issues escalate. We’ve had ONE COVID death in my county - and bear in mind, anyone who had the virus but recovered fully and then dies in a car accident is counted as a COVID death. In the meantime, we’ve had ONE suicide I’m aware of and other deaths that - reading between the lines - are also. And of course, the drug overdoses, auto accidents, domestic abuse ...
When Minnesota began to re-open a few weeks ago, we had a very-alarming rash of fatal accidents. The State Patrol reported people were driving at incredibly high speeds rather routinely, releasing pent-up frustration.
(5) Political messages that fit the agenda will be exempt from many requirements. How else can you explain de Blasio insisting Black Lives Matter Protests must be allowed to go on, or the Governor of Washington State exempting “People of Color” from requirements? Here in Minnesota, while our Governor insisted church services must be limited to 12 people or something like that, he sat front and center at a packed memorial for George Floyd.
I could go on (and on) - but to deny much of what is happening is politically motivated strikes me as completely disregarding the facts and logic. Your own mileage may vary ...
Dennis
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It is still amazing that an ex convict that was in prison at least a half dozen times is made a hero and died while the police man was trying to put him under arrest. mw~
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It is still amazing that an ex convict that was in prison at least a half dozen times is made a hero and died while the police man was trying to put him under arrest. mw~
That would be (Saint) George Floyd, yes. High on 2 drugs and in possession of a third, it appears, after serving time for armed robbery.
Don't forget (Saint) Rayshard Brooks in Atlanta, with a very long record of theft, false imprisonment, obstructing an officer, felony cruelty and more. His wife described him as a simply wonderful husband, father, person. Never mind he was at Wendy's to meet his (white) girlfriend, who saw fit to set the Wendy's on fire following Rashard’s death.
Do you suppose the wife is in denial, or simply playing along with the script?
With men like these as martyrs, do you suppose the very young children who die in the violence are regarded as just "trailer trash" or some equivalent? I’m not seeing any real protest over their deaths ...
Dennis
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Interesting discussion. Each of us has a right to believe and act as.we want as it pertains to the coronavirus. We are Americans after after all and many good men and women have died to give us that choice. Personally, I like to look at the big picture, so a world comparison is more my cup of tea.
Here is an article from CNN, not my favorite news outlet, but you can google any number of sources and find the same information elsewhere. The article is comparing the COVID response and statistics from Taiwan with other parts of the world.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/04/asia/taiwan-coronavirus-response-who-intl-hnk/index.html
You can draw your own conclusions.
While we are mostly disgusted with the media's attacks on our police, men who have sworn to protect us, we should not bury our heads in the sand thinking our criminal justice system is without serious flaws. It’s not every policeman, just as there are good and bad apples within every occupation in life. And it is not just police, the problem extends to prosecutors and judges as well. Again, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the barrel.
If you do not think there are serious problems within our criminal justice system, I would urge every American to listen to podcasts of “Wrongful Convictions” to see some real life examples of the criminal justice system gone haywire.
https://www.wrongfulconvictionpodcast.com/
You can also learn more at The Innocence Project:
https://www.innocenceproject.org/
Again, you can draw your own conclusions, but I guarantee you will be appalled as a good American at what you hear and read.
Becoming more educated is always a good thing. We should all learn something new each day to keep our brains active and our minds alert so we can design that next great stunt ship.
Though this thread is far from on topic on model stunt flying, everyone has been well behaved, so I don’t mind participating. It has been an interesting read so far.
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Of course Brett is right....he's NEVER been wrong. NY pioneered response, and TREATMENT. Lots was learned and lots dies while finding treatment..
The fact that they killed 32,000 people in the process - many needlessly exposed in nursing homes they could not escape - is just the cost of doing business?
Thank goodness the rest of us don't have that level of, uh, consideration for our fellow human beings.
Brett
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Infection rate in NYC is way down. New Yorkers brought it down through discipline and common sense. A response that is possible when strong clear leadership sets the tone and guidelines. Brett regarded the virus as a Euro Asian hoax. The deaths and infections a function of socialized medicine. Agree with him if you’re inclined. The twisted logic and incoherence amuses and saddens.
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DM posted: "Infection rate in NYC is way down. New Yorkers brought it down through discipline and common sense. A response that is possible when strong clear leadership sets the tone and guidelines."
Kindly list the names of those responsible for "strong clear leadership".
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I completely side with Dennis M. on leadership and managing a problem. If you wish to remain "hung up" about your rights just look at the numbers. Early on the highest density part of the country was learning, could they have done some things different, sure, did they over react in some ways, yes but thank God they took the initiative and lead the state out of trouble. Numbers are numbers, liars figure and figures lie or something like this, the fact is the death rate in NY has diminished while other areas that wished to ignore the recommendations are now in deep do do. Thank goodness we are not a dictatorship here compared to some contries where failing to stay home results in an arrest and fines. Here some are mandating for the safety of the public where some peoples behavior can be detrimental to the health safety and lives of others. Why is this so controversial, how is there an argument here?
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DM posted: "Infection rate in NYC is way down. New Yorkers brought it down through discipline and common sense. A response that is possible when strong clear leadership sets the tone and guidelines."
Kindly list the names of those responsible for "strong clear leadership".
LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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Thank goodness we are not a dictatorship here compared to some contries where failing to stay home results in an arrest and fines.
Evidently you aren't aware the mayor of NY city imposed a curfew in May/June making it unlawful to be outside during the PM hours. He had normal citizens arrested who were neither protesters or looters...exactly like a dictatorship.
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Good for him I hope he continues I love life.
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"DM posted: "Infection rate in NYC is way down. New Yorkers brought it down through discipline and common sense. A response that is possible when strong clear leadership sets the tone and guidelines."
Just proved that the numbers are/were manipulated.
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It's a sad commentary on the human species when it becomes necessary for mayors, governors to MANDATE behavior.
If citizens had any common sense, they would have implemented "social distancing" and masks without prodding or laws.
Humans seem slow to learn. The survivors will be the ones with brains that work.
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It's a sad commentary on the human species when it becomes necessary for mayors, governors to MANDATE behavior.
If citizens had any common sense, they would have implemented "social distancing" and masks without prodding or laws.
Humans seem slow to learn. The survivors will be the ones with brains that work.
And even SADDER when their mandates are selective - in other words, DIVISIVE.
Dennis
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Neighbor's friends live in Phoenix, the one in AZ. They are mid-late 70's, and caught Covid-19. Called their doctor(s?), got a 'script from their doctor(s?), and recovered fine. It's not a death sentence IF you get off your ass and call the DOCTOR (assuming he's competent, which can be a problem). The guy that died at Boeing's Everett Plant had been sick for a couple of weeks and refused to go to the DOCTOR.
Our Nursing Home problems were in part caused by "healthcare workers" working less than 32 hours a week at one facility and then going to another facility to get enough hours to be able to pay rent, etc. Seems there should be a solution for that, but I'm sure some will need it explained to them that they spread the virus from one facility to the other(s).
There's a County in Oregon that made it required to wear masks in public, BUT MADE IT "OPTIONAL FOR PERSONS OF COLOR", in case it made them uncomfortable. As I recall, the County Sherriff said it wouldn't be enforced. Seattle or Portland might enforce such an ordinance, but likely just a severe beating and a fine of $1,000, with no jail time. They let convicted FELONS out of JAIL because they're afraid they might catch the virus there. SO THEY LET THEM LOOSE! OMFG! '' Steve
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Steve,
It's interesting your Phoenix friends in their 70's contacted their doctor and received a script and recovered. I have read there is nothing a doctor can prescribe for the Covid-19 infection, excluding the White House's undesirable recommendations of course. They say in most cases the symptoms often begin with a sore throat, headache and low grade fever; people will often hold off several days thinking the have caught a common cold before calling the doc. Supposedly the more elderly with COPD, Asthma, Cornary conditions are the most probable to not recover once they contract the virus. I think most people in this susceptibility category are wise enough to run out to get tested, problem is some states have poor turnaround times on producing the results. It's during this time the symptomatic are high potential spreaders unless they practice self quarantine which many fail to do. Clearly your friends probably didn't have Covid-19 or they are asymptomatic and are now carrying it to others. Were they tested?
Steve
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Steve said: "I completely side with Dennis M. on leadership and managing a problem."
That would make sense if THERE WAS any leadership. LL~ LL~
NY is run by some of the most incompetent a**holes in the history of that state and city: deblasio and cuomo.
Worthless ignorant democraps.
Leaders? A joke, probably perpetrated by some a** kissing liberal who probably supported worthless incompetent jerks like obama and clinton.
Most of the liberals are also Trump haters. But when asked who would make a better president than Trump, they totally ignore the question simply because they don't have an answer.
You know who you are - how about an answer. ??? ???
Just my 2 cents.
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Bob,
I never really never liked the Democratic crowd over in Albany but I must say they did lead our state out of trouble. You can hate the NY Democratics but when it came to straight answers and the facts back in March when we needed something most you can't deny the country was able to turn to Coumo's daily reports on what the state's numbers were and action being taken to turn the tide. NY pioneered the problem while nothing of any value was coming out of Washington except encouragement from Dr. Fauci. The big kahuna did nothing but make a fool of himself world wide and clearly showed he is unable to manage if you want to point fingers and criticize someone for miss management.
My two bits worth.
Steve
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Bob,
I never really never liked the Democratic crowd over in Albany but I must say they did lead our state out of trouble. You can hate the NY Democratics but when it came to straight answers and the facts back in March when we needed something most you can't deny the country was able to turn to Coumo's daily reports on what the state's numbers were and action being taken to turn the tide. NY pioneered the problem while nothing of any value was coming out of Washington except encouragement from Dr. Fauci. The big kahuna did nothing but make a fool of himself world wide and clearly showed he is unable to manage if you want to point fingers and criticize someone for miss management.
My two bits worth.
Steve
Steve: "the Democratic crowd over in Albany ... did lead our state out of trouble" - So, New York is out of trouble now? Just asking for a friend ...
"NY pioneered the problem" - Most of us can agree with that, especially by sending the infected to homes for the elderly.
Don't look now, but many other Democrats are criticizing Cuomo's press sessions as "self-promotion". And especially keep disregarding the numbers!
Dennis
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If the politicians of NY and other cities are so concerned about controlling the virus, why are they not clamping down on the so called peaceful protesters attacking police officers, looting, shooting and burning? S?P
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This is from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.
https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/
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I went to the store tonight & some clown , unmasked , was hacking & clearing his throat and of course not wearing a mask. This is why the laws demand masks inside a building . It has nothing to do with " your rights" it has everything to do with protecting others from idiots like this guy who cares less about anyone but his own stupid self.
And yes he knows my opinion of him .
We all wear seatbelts is that unlawful too? Car seats for kids? Some people aren't smart enough to use them so we have laws the difference being seatbelts only protect you the masks protect people around you. No , I was against wearing a mask but I do now that it's a law .
John L.
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This is from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.
https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/
Consider the source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons
(Of course you may not like mine :) )
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I went to the store tonight & some clown , unmasked , was hacking & clearing his throat and of course not wearing a mask. This is why the laws demand masks inside a building . It has nothing to do with " your rights" it has everything to do with protecting others from idiots like this guy who cares less about anyone but his own stupid self.
And yes he knows my opinion of him .
We all wear seatbelts is that unlawful too? Car seats for kids? Some people aren't smart enough to use them so we have laws the difference being seatbelts only protect you the masks protect people around you. No , I was against wearing a mask but I do now that it's a law .
It's not a law, anywhere, as far as I know. It's an "order" from a government official, which carries the legal weight of anything else they say - jack-sh*t. Note that the enforcement is at best selective and amounts to peer pressure.
It's also not about your safety - it's about making you "feel" safe while doing nothing. You wanting a smug feeling of safety shouldn't override another personal liberty.
As far as I know, martial law has not been declared anywhere; if it was, there would be some thin legal basis for taking orders from public officials - but even then, there would be judicial review of the infringement of rights VS reward - which would quickly show the fact that you being angry about someone wearing a non-functional entirely symbolic device is not legal justification for interfering with someone else's rights. Which is why they aren't hauling anyone into court over it, and merely using the word "order" and peer pressure to try to intimidate you into doing what *they* have personally decided is "right".
BTW - private property owners and renters CAN ask you to do something specific or be excluded from the property, so Safeway is fully within their rights to ask you to wear a mask or leave because you are trespassing. As always, a private property owner has more legal authority to control their property than a government functionary declaring things.
None of this is hard to understand or controversial, it's basic 8th grade civics class stuff.
Brett
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I agree it is only an "Order" and not really enforceable for all practical purposes. I may give businesses some legal grounds to require customers to wear mask in their establishment. Having said that there are many reports out there both for and against the benefits of wearing them when in larger groups inside were you can't keep 6 - 8 ft apart. It is one of those things you make a choice, put you bet in and roll the dice.
The "Order" does for some people signify a need to do something that if it was not there they would simply do nothing think if it was important the government would have told us to do it. For the rest of us we will use common sense and take the precaution and protect our self's, family, friends and neighbors, wear the masks and social distance when in public areas even if it is minimally effective.
Now that the medical experiment NATs are over, I guess in a few weeks we will see how it goes.
Best, DennisT
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Dennis , I agree that the mask does precious little to protect anything. But when Aqua Lung started his noise yesterday it was pretty gross & he has no excuse not to wear one.
Brett , law was a poor choice of words I didn't attend law school & doubt many here have , used only for lack of having 100% of the facts. I do think anyone reading my simple replies gets my drift I know without a doubt I speak plainly.
John L.
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Wearing of masks is becoming more and more common.
It must be working. I can now buy TP outside of the black Market.
Life is good.
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I went to the store tonight & some clown , unmasked , was hacking & clearing his throat and of course not wearing a mask. This is why the laws demand masks inside a building . It has nothing to do with " your rights" it has everything to do with protecting others from idiots like this guy who cares less about anyone but his own stupid self.
And yes he knows my opinion of him .
We all wear seatbelts is that unlawful too? Car seats for kids? Some people aren't smart enough to use them so we have laws the difference being seatbelts only protect you the masks protect people around you. No , I was against wearing a mask but I do now that it's a law .
John L.
What we really need is not a countrywide mask mandate, but a MEGA HAT MANDATE. We've got a country to save from dangerous forces working against us (besides the Wuhan Red Death Virus), and we had better get cranking. D>K H^^
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Brett is exactly right. Mask Mandates are not lawful and there are several lawsuits that have been filed against these dumbass local idiots that have decreed them.
Mike
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Consider the source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons
(Of course you may not like mine :) )
You're right Pat, you're attacking the source - a basic no-no in logic. I would like your source proving that masks are helpful overall, really - can you provide one? Since even the CDC can't ...
Dennis
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Wearing of masks is becoming more and more common.
It must be working. I can now buy TP outside of the black Market.
Life is good.
Floyd! After telling us it would take more than 50 years to recover from the Trump Presidency, I knew you'd come around!
Now we can take you seriously!
Dennis
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Brett is exactly right. Mask Mandates are not lawful and there are several lawsuits that have been filed against these dumbass local idiots that have decreed them.
Mike
As I recall, emergency powers claimed by ELEVEN (11) state governors have now been ruled unconstitutional. Considering the makeup of the Minnesota Supreme Court, I expect the lawsuit against Governor Walz will have to go to the U.S. Supreme Court before we're added to the total.
Dennis
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Again - I don’t have a problem with wearing a mask if it makes others more comfortable. Even though we still seem to be looking for a scientific study confirming the benefits of wearing masks outweighs the negatives.
But masks are only a minor symbol. The real issue is inalienable rights.
Is it right for any form of government in the United States to tell us we can’t assemble for worship, but allow thousands to gather in the streets?
Is it right to tell us we can’t sing or shout in worship, while those same authorities do so?
Is it right to order barber shops and salons closed while women mayors have their hair done in salons?
We could list so much more ...
Just a Very Personal Opinion: Those who don’t recognize much of this is about power and control are either in denial or incredibly stupid.
Bear in mind the “Emergency Powers” claimed by the Governors of ELEVEN (11) states have been ruled unconstitutional - and there will be more.
Dennis
Attachments:
1 - Mask wearing (Not!) with no social distancing at the George Floyd Memorial Service
2 - Senator Amy Klobuchar (MN Democrat) singing at that service while churches were told not to allow singing
3 - MN Democrat Tim Walz at groundbreaking ceremony - observe masks & distancing - Not!
4 - Typical Walz decision - allowed rioting & destruction while National Guard waited for orders, then asked Federal Government - you and me - for 500 Million Dollars to repair damages
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You're right Pat, you're attacking the source - a basic no-no in logic. I would like your source proving that masks are helpful overall, really - can you provide one? Since even the CDC can't ...
Dennis
Actually I did not attack the source. I merely linked to some information about it so that others could make up their own mind.
But since you brought it up, the organization's name is in itself deceptive. It implies that they speak for all American doctors.
In fact they represent a tiny fraction, and should probably have the word "Libertarian" somewhere in their name.
Not saying there is anything wrong with that either, just that it would better describe them.
At least, according to their web site, they are funded by membership dues.
Based on their "unique" policy positions I had expected to find some involvement from the Koch brothers ( well, the single remaining one).
FWIW, here is some info in support of masks. Much like the links between smoking and cancer (that the AAPS also disputed) this is not proof.
Instead it presents evidence.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
And of course the image you posted demonstrates nothing. First of all it is just boilerplate lawyer's CYA.
And second it is not relevant, because it talks about protection to the wearer, which is not the point of wearing a mask.
A medical N95 respirator for example is not a proper mask to be worn by the general public, because of the exhale valve.
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Actually I did not attack the source. I merely linked to some information about it so that others could make up their own mind.
But since you brought it up, the organization's name is in itself deceptive. It implies that they speak for all American doctors.
In fact they represent a tiny fraction, and should probably have the word "Libertarian" somewhere in their name.
Not saying there is anything wrong with that either, just that it would better describe them.
At least, according to their web site, they are funded by membership dues.
Based on their "unique" policy positions I had expected to find some involvement from the Koch brothers ( well, the single remaining one).
FWIW, here is some info in support of masks. Much like the links between smoking and cancer (that the AAPS also disputed) this is not proof.
Instead it presents evidence.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
And of course the image you posted demonstrates nothing. First of all it is just boilerplate lawyer's CYA.
And second it is not relevant, because it talks about protection to the wearer, which is not the point of wearing a mask.
A medical N95 respirator for example is not a proper mask to be worn by the general public, because of the exhale valve.
Pat, you provide more ado about NOTHING.
Please provide the link to a scientific study that proves masks protect (1) the wearer and (2) others. SIMPLE! I'll actually be quite pleased if you can do so!
Everything else you present is FLUFF.
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Obviously, Dennis doesn't recognize sarcasm when it is quite obvious to everyone else.
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I always find it interesting that a guy says "I've read a bunch both before and after this whole thing came along and it all seems to be BS"
And the first thing out of your guys mouth is "Man Up" "Your Stupid" "Darwin at Work" "Don't be an Ass" Yet plenty of other places that haven't run through the gauntlet of masks, haven't shut their countries down are through, they have herd immunity and they aren't suffereing from the now story of "Herd Immunity won't work" when their evidence is the spikes WE caused by isolating everyone then introducing them back to each other.
SO, you guys start calling names.
Thats find. Never really wanted to hang out with you pussies anyways.
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I have been watching this mask debate for a while, both here and in the media, and nobody brings up one important point. The mask, when used as a preventive measure doesn't do diddley squat unless you combine it with eye protection. It has long been held and proven that viruses can enter your system through your eyes as well as through your nose. In fact, that is where most people catch the common cold, (which is a corona virus) by rubbing their eyes with their germ covered hands. And then that brings hand washing back into the picture. If you think the mask thing is a bunch of crap, try getting the average Joe to wear eye protection all the time! Gloves are a better option.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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But the gloves won’t stop you touching your face with filthy hands. That’s a habit I find difficult to stop..
The masks did break me of touching my face all the time.
Ken