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Author Topic: Masks  (Read 8807 times)

Offline john e. holliday

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Masks
« on: July 01, 2020, 05:07:19 PM »
Yes this may control our flying, but I intend to fight it   In my area Shawnee has joined the Kansas City area in saying we must wear mask if we are out side homes/houses.  I for one told my wife I will not wear one.  She told me it will be required for me to attend Church.  I told her I guess I will stay home and worship my LORD and Savior there.   Same with shopping, if they say I need a mask I will go back home.  Also if at the flying field if I am alone why should I need a mask.  May need a defense lawyer in time.  Wait and see. S?P
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Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2020, 05:25:41 PM »
I wear mine whenever among others, not because I have to, not because it protects ME, but because it protects OTHERS FROM ME. The increasing number of deaths in areas where people do not show consideration for others is a measure of their effectiveness. There is responsibility to be taken for the increased hospitalizations and deaths, and it is not God "playing dice with the universe." It is choices made not to wear masks. Masks are not a denial of one's civil liberties any more than DUI laws or laws against stealing and murder. There are just some things to which we agree, and one is not to kill others unnecessarily.

OTOH, I don't see the absolute need for a mask outside, especially if we keep our distances. When I'm near anyone - like inside that 6' distance - I'' probably continue to wear the mask, even outside. It's not that difficult or such an inconvenience. - SK

Offline Joe M

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Re: Masks
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2020, 06:59:18 PM »
++++ Serge++++ Thank you SIR.

Joe

JEH Why even post this?? Put on a mask and Make everyone around you feel safe in your presence instead of stirring the pot.  You must not have lost a family member to this like others have.

Offline Arlan McKee

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Re: Masks
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2020, 07:32:26 PM »
It's interesting to read articles written before they had an agenda.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150422121724.htm

Offline pmackenzie

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Re: Masks
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2020, 09:36:03 PM »
It's interesting to read articles written before they had an agenda.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150422121724.htm

Read that carefully, they are comparing medical grade masks effectiveness compared to cloth masks in protecting health care workers.
So not even the same use case.

Also interesting to read articles in the same journal that are on point:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200612172200.htm
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Online Fred Underwood

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Re: Masks
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2020, 10:09:20 PM »
Along with Pat's comments, medical grade masks help keep particles away from the person wearing the mask.  Cloth masks aren't really designed for that use.  The cloth masks that are advised for public keep the bulk of the oral and nasal secretions and viral particles from spreading as far, and catch many of your own particles in your own mask.  The cloth masks keep your output to your self, and should be washed occasionally or frequently.  They are a courtesy to others around you.  I don't think the use of cloth masks in public seen worldwide is political or agenda related, but public health oriented.

I hope that this is not taken as political, but as health oriented.
Fred
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Offline John Park

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Re: Masks
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2020, 03:10:14 AM »
The advice here in Britain, which makes a great deal of sense to me, is that wearing a mask out of doors is of no significant benefit assuming that reasonable social distancing is maintained.  Indoors, i.e. in any confined space, is a different matter, and the wearing of masks is strongly advised.  It's actually mandatory on public transport.  It's acknowledged that the main purpose is to catch an infected person's virus-carrying secretions before they spread to anyone else, rather than to protect the wearer from infection. 
The bottom line is that you certainly wouldn't be expected to wear a mask to fly C/L stunt - though combat or team-racing might be another matter!
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Masks
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2020, 04:46:57 AM »
Yes this may control our flying, but I intend to fight it   In my area Shawnee has joined the Kansas City area in saying we must wear mask if we are out side homes/houses.  I for one told my wife I will not wear one.  She told me it will be required for me to attend Church.  I told her I guess I will stay home and worship my LORD and Savior there.   Same with shopping, if they say I need a mask I will go back home.  Also if at the flying field if I am alone why should I need a mask.  May need a defense lawyer in time.  Wait and see. S?P


John,
Stupidity is not  a virtue. Wear the mask.

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Masks
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2020, 05:09:04 AM »
I'm with Doc. The so called "experts" are in it for the money. One of our "experts" said we would loose 7.5 million jobs in April. We gained 2.5 million jobs, that's a mistake of 10 million. I listen to myself and common sense. I stand with Texas.  I wear a mask when I spray paint.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
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Offline Peter Grabenstein

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Re: Masks
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2020, 05:22:48 AM »
Doc.....,  sure your own decision to stay healthy or not.
Be or not be...that's the question.

In my hometown ,309.370  residents,
we have little over 500 Covid 19 cases @ Hospitals for intensive care.

Please stay healthy and wear a mask when you leave your house.
Elderly people like me are in more Covid 19 Danger like younger.

Keep in mind, .......beside your wife and kids ,
your grandkids are LOVING YOU TOO.

Hopefully the bats of wuhan wont create a new Covid 20 virus for next year.
Still its your decision to become another Covid 19 victim or not.

People went to church without mask,.....they now hospitalized....for intensive care.

BTW I do NOT fear mongering ,
these are only reliable numbers of my hometown.

All the best
 H^^ Peter
with Pitman  ;D Willi S.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 08:08:03 AM by Peter Grabenstein »
I hate pessimists, I prefer optimists.
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Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Masks
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2020, 08:35:37 AM »
you all should watch Sparkys video

retired Army wife and I ...both in high risk group
we both object to being TOLD to behave any way
if we wear a mask it is ONLY because we need a good or service in some grossly ill informed establishment
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Masks
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2020, 08:37:08 AM »
The idea that wearing a mask when in areas of a group of people somehow infringes on your freedom is illogical. You make the free choice to be in these areas, no one is forced to put themselves in a situation where you could be exposed to the Covid 19 or any other conditions, you make that choice.

What you do not have is the right to put others at risk for your choices and this is one of those issues where you don't just take a risk for yourself (like not wearing seatbelts) but your family and friends and flying buddies. The studies (Google it) have shown that the simple mask face cover is 65 -  85% effective in preventing transmission (85% with some distancing). Even Pence is now wearing one. Let MAG stand for "Masks Are Great".

This is a no brainer, why take an unnecessary risk when you have a simple cheap way of reducing your chance for infections or spreading to others. No one is getting rich off masks, you can make them yourself or just use a bandana. At the very least cover you mouth with a handkerchief when you talk or laugh when around other people if you can't be 6 ft away from them, simple stuff.

The shame of it is that if they would have advised the public to wear the simple face cover mask way back in the beginning, we likely could have avoided much of this shut down. That's water under the bridge, now that we know let's work to get this thing defeated, wear the masks.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Peter Grabenstein

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Re: Masks
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2020, 09:08:08 AM »
with you Dennis  y1,

"Must wear mask" came out QUICK by new law and
kept the Victim numbers VD~ LOW as possible, still working on it HB~>.
I am sure....one mask is allways BETTER than nothing .
Lets talk about this a few month later.
 
H^^
Peter
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:28:37 AM by Peter Grabenstein »
I hate pessimists, I prefer optimists.
Impossible is done immediately, miracles take longer.
I don't care who your father is ......... as long as I fly here,
Nobody walks, runs, floats or flies across my circle ......... not even to fetch fish, wine or bread.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Masks
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2020, 09:13:31 AM »
The bottom line is that you certainly wouldn't be expected to wear a mask to fly C/L stunt - though combat or team-racing might be another matter!
They can skip the mask too.  Reliale sources tell me that insanity makes you immune to the virus.  If it is a life long immunity then I am safe because I flew both when I was younger.  Now, if you ask most of our wives if we are crazy we gain immunity from flying stunt.  So - do we ware a mask?   No, unless you have never flown racing or combat and your wife actually likes your hobby (some actually do).

Ken
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Offline Arlan McKee

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Re: Masks
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2020, 09:16:01 AM »
Read that carefully, they are comparing medical grade masks effectiveness compared to cloth masks in protecting health care workers.
So not even the same use case.

Also interesting to read articles in the same journal that are on point:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200612172200.htm
I did read carefully. Evidently you did not. The study I posted involved 3 separate groups with a control group.
The agenda article you posted looked at "trends" and then by "projecting the trends" , " calculated that over 66,000 were prevented".
So in other words, they did not do a scientific study of anything.  Just guessed at a number.

Offline George S

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Re: Masks
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2020, 09:39:16 AM »
People are saying they don't like being "TOLD" or "Forced" to wear a mask. REALLY? You're told not to Drink and Drive. You're told to abide by the speed limit. These are all in place to protect others. Lots of videos being posted and passed around that is both truthful and many with false claims. Talk to people who work in the ICUs. Talk to the folks that are really down in the trenches. Most of us don't see any of the bad stuff from where we are sitting. (until it affects us personally). I hope and pray this gets under control but it takes cooperation from EVERYONE to keep it in check in the meantime.
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Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Masks
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2020, 09:44:53 AM »
"You make the free choice to be in these areas, no one is forced to put themselves in a situation where you could be exposed to the Covid 19 or any other conditions, you make that choice."

you obviously have no idea how many ways some adult may be FORCED (by necessity) to go to town for supplies that are not delivered or curbside available

we are logical rural "preppers" is so much as multiple freezers, large pantry, several gas cans, batteries, dry goods, paper goods, dog food, .......but 30~ 60 day worth of supply eventually needs replenishment, and we could use some fresh meat n produce don't ya know

We are not covid carriers when we go to town after 3~6 weeks of isolation....so If I choose to not wear a mask....shut your yap damnit!

« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:58:24 AM by Fredvon4 »
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Masks
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2020, 09:49:22 AM »
At the doctors for a routine check this morning.  This is posted everywhere:
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Masks
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2020, 10:12:48 AM »
Well, good luck. Basic Darwinism.
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Offline Jim Carter

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Re: Masks
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2020, 11:01:35 AM »
We are not covid carriers when we go to town after 3~6 weeks of isolation....so If I choose to not wear a mask....shut your yap damnit!
Amen brother!!  You are absolutely right!!  Spot on!!  You have the "right to not mask up"!!  Yep, you're thinking!!  But, on your last trip to town for those "prepper" essentials ... do you remember the friendly smiling person, on the upwind side of you, that was about 15 feet away, who just walked past you and sneezed  and was a "hot, active" Covid carrier??  Well, ten days later as you lay in the intensive care ward ...  well, can me and the guys stop by your place and have all your model airplane stuff??   LL~ LL~

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Masks
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2020, 11:08:16 AM »
"You make the free choice to be in these areas, no one is forced to put themselves in a situation where you could be exposed to the Covid 19 or any other conditions, you make that choice."

you obviously have no idea how many ways some adult may be FORCED (by necessity) to go to town for supplies that are not delivered or curbside available

we are logical rural "preppers" is some much as freezers, large pantry, several gas cans, batteries, dry goods, paper goods, dog food, .......but 30~ 60 day worth of supply eventually needs replenishment, and we could use some fresh produce don't ya know

We are not covid carriers when we go to town after 3~6 weeks of isolation....so If I choose to not wear a mask....shut your yap damnit!
Just out of curiosity, when you go to town do you wear a mask while shopping or do you force the business to break the "law" by letting you shop without one.  Do you wear one when sanding or spraying?

In the last couple of weeks before coming to towh are you saying that you had zero interaction with anybody outside of your household and neither did any of them?  If you did are you 100% sure that the person you interacted with also interacted with nobody in 2 weeks?  If you can't answer Yes to all three of those then you don't really know if you are infected or not, you are just guessing.

Masks serve several purposes in public.  In private, I don't give a lusty crap if you use one but in public where close interaction is unavoidable, you should because:

#1 I don' know you from Adam and if you have a mask on I am not as fearful that you might be "Covid Mary" n1,
#2 our Governor has asked us to wear one in public (A S K E D, not mandated) y1, and
#3 I own stock in a company that manufactures masks LL~  (just kidding on that one)

ken

Damn Jim - I should have read your first!



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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Masks
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2020, 12:02:19 PM »
Just wear a mask

For everyone who has a compromised immune system (like myself) I wear one when I am out in public but especially inside stores or any group settings. The mask protects you from harm but it also protects you from harming other people who could spread the problem.

It's simple if you don't have a mask on you can spread the problem to someone else who then share it with others. If you have the mask on then you can't share with others and the problem stops at you.
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Online Reptoid

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Re: Masks
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2020, 03:24:42 PM »
The masks most people are wearing don't do anything to protect you or the public. Do some research of Actual medical data. Wearing a cloth mask with a cute logo is like using chain link to stop flies. Most M95 masks are designed to keep toxins/chemicals out. Those little "things" on the sides? Those are one-way exhaust vents to let every bit of your exhaust out when you exhale (yeah, you're not Protecting anyone but YOU) Industrial masks are not fine enough to stop microbe level virus's. Don't believe me? Ask a medical doctor what he would wear if he had to treat someone he knew for certain had Ebola virus (An actually Very Deadly Virus) He will not answer anything people are wearing now. What does that say? He knows that what people are wearing will not reliably stop a Virus and he doesn't want to die. If you also ask him if it's healthy to wear a mask all the time, He will tell you NO. Why? Because all masks reduce the amount of oxygen in your blood stream. They not only reduce your ability to draw air in but they cause you to rebreathe your own exhaust which is high in Co2 and contains toxins that your body is trying to eliminate. Social distance and washing your hands are the best defence. If you have to go close to crowds, try to maintain 6 ft, wear some kind of mask and when you leave that environment throw the mask away and wash your hands.
   The people telling you to wear a mask outdoors at all times are idiot politicians who want to control you. They are not medical experts and they don't give a @#$% about your health.
Regards,
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Offline rich gorrill

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Re: Masks
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2020, 04:06:28 PM »
I agree with Serge, it's no skin off my ass to wear a mask. Had to wear one a lot when I worked, also faceshields and Nomex coveralls when I worked in a refinery. Better than getting welding fumes and grinding grit in my face. Oh I forgot the ear plugs and Safety Harness when we were above 6 feet on a ladder. So anyone upset with having to wear a mask is getting no sympathy from me.

Rich

Offline pmackenzie

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Re: Masks
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2020, 04:52:43 PM »
I did read carefully. Evidently you did not. The study I posted involved 3 separate groups with a control group.
The agenda article you posted looked at "trends" and then by "projecting the trends" , " calculated that over 66,000 were prevented".
So in other words, they did not do a scientific study of anything.  Just guessed at a number.

Three groups. One wearing medical grade masks , another cloth masks, the control group basically wearing whatever they normally used (i.e masks!)

Quote
The trial saw 1607 hospital healthcare workers across 14 hospitals in the Vietnamese capital, Hanoi, split into three groups: those wearing medical masks, those wearing cloth masks and a control group based on usual practice, which included mask wearing.

The conclusion was that medical masks worked better than cloth , so medical workers should be wearing medical masks.
Cloth was probably worse than control ( they don't say this in the short summary) just because some of the control would be wearing medical masks

Not exactly rocket science.

But as i said, a different use case than wearing a mask to prevent the wearer from infecting others.
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Offline Arlan McKee

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Re: Masks
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2020, 05:21:51 PM »
Summary:Respiratory infection is much higher among healthcare workers wearing cloth masks compared to medical masks, research shows. Cloth masks should not be used by workers in any healthcare setting, authors of the new study say.

The widespread use of cloth masks by healthcare workers may actually put them at increased risk of respiratory illness and viral infections and their global use should be discouraged, according to a UNSW study.

That's the whole point. Wearing a cloth mask in any setting will increase anyone's chances of the same respiratory ilnesses.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Masks
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2020, 05:50:29 PM »
It's simple if you don't have a mask on you can spread the problem to someone else who then share it with others. If you have the mask on then you can't share with others and the problem stops at you.

   The masks and other protocols used  by the general public are like putting a screen door on a submarine. Actually protecting yourself from something as small as a virus, or containing it, (which is actually much more difficult) requires far more than could practically be done on a mass scale.

   Masks are an entirely psychological phenomenon, it makes you think you are doing *something", and actually have some control over a situation that you have no real control over. The underlying issue is that, having lived lives of obscene luxury and safety (for 3 generations now) people cannot fathom that there are situations beyond their practical control, and therefore demand a solution on the assumption that there must be one.

 Ultimately, unless a vaccine is found in the next few months, I would guess the ultimate death toll will be about the (deaths per infection) *320 million. That seems to mean around 300,000-500,000 people might die in the USA. Assuming this was a naturally-developed virus, *it is no one's fault*, *nothing practical can be done to alter it*. Nature and the real world are a pretty harsh and there are some problems that *cannot be solved*, thinking that "this is the 21st century, we have moved beyond this sort of thing, this can't be happening to us!" is nonsense. We have been living a charmed life, but eventually probability catches up with you.

 Of course, the "it takes a village" types are all too happy to promise to do something and be seen to be doing something, effective are not, and all too happy to find a "solution" that eliminates any semblance of personal choice, because it plays to their end goals, that is, eliminating the uniquely American concept of individual liberty.

   Every proposed apocalyptic "crisis" for the last 50 years has,  oddly,  had the same solution.

 It also gives you a clearly visible signal of this "compliance", and thus wearing a mask almost immediately became your indication of virtue, or not, so it makes you feel superior to be more conservative about "safety".   

     If you don't want to catch Wuhan Flu, then don't go out and wait at home for a vaccine. That is your only realistic method of avoiding infection. Not practical on a mass scale, of course, and no guarantees at all, but its what little you can actually do that is effective to protect yourself. Otherwise, you wearing a mask, or other people wearing masks, will accomplish exactly nothing for "safety".

     Brett

p.s. Wuhan flu *absolutely is* a health crisis, it is a very real disease that you will almost certainly be exposed to (and maybe already have been), some chance of developing detectable symptoms from, and a very small but realistic chance of dying from. People who think it is entirely fake are probably just doing the same thing as the "safety screechers", they might realize that there is no real defense from it, and for their own peace of mind, must assume that it's just made-up. It definitely is not made up, the effects of been greatly exaggerated for purposes of manipulation, but very real and much more dangerous that a typical seasonal flu.

    For certain groups, in fact, the statistics are staggering, if you are over 75 - 80,  it's just short of a death sentence. Part of that is that in the most incompetent responses (New York and Florida), they had policies that nearly guaranteed exposure of large numbers of people already compromised to the point they were in nursing homes. A lot of this was avoidable with even simple precautions,
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 06:11:43 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: Masks
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2020, 06:09:38 PM »
Say what you will, but the young lady in the Birka in Doc's post looks pretty damn good to me! Gorgeous eyes,she's a 20 pointer I bet.....Skip

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Masks
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2020, 07:17:11 PM »
Say what you will, but the young lady in the Birka in Doc's post looks pretty damn good to me! Gorgeous eyes,she's a 20 pointer I bet.....Skip

Couldn't agree more

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Masks
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2020, 09:21:07 PM »
From Ted  Nugent:

Why do I have to stay home just because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared? How about 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay home....𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal,

I'm done playing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I'm not wearing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I'm no longer staying in my house or catering to 𝘆𝗼𝘂 because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared. I'm not wearing a mask and I'm not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I'm not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it's not because of 𝘆𝗼𝘂, it's because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick.

This virus (or whatever it is) is already circulating. Millions of people have already encountered it, as it's been circulating around the world probably since last September. You WILL have to confront this thing, if you haven’t already. There is no way around it, unless you lock yourself up in your house and it somehow doesn't manage to hop on some mail or some groceries that you ordered online.

𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not an excuse to destroy America. 𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not my fear and your fear does not have the right to interfere with my life, my job, my income or my future as a free American citizen. So if you're scared, you can just put your tin foil hat on, or even wrap foil all around your whole body - or around your whole house if you wish - but please keep your fear contained to your little corner of the world and don't contaminate me or my family or my Country.” 🇺🇸

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Masks
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2020, 09:28:24 PM »
Here is a direct quote i lifted from an article from The New England Journal of Medicine.

"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."

Mike

Offline John Park

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Re: Masks
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2020, 07:48:57 AM »
So - do we ware a mask?   No, unless you have never flown racing or combat and your wife actually likes your hobby (some actually do).

Ken
That sounds about right, Ken!  Way back, there was a jokey bit of correspondence in AeroModeller about possible uses for the balsa dust we generate so freely in our workshops: one suggestion was "head filler for combat modellers"!
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: Masks
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2020, 07:56:02 AM »
From Ted  Nugent:

Why do I have to stay home just because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared? How about 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay home....𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal,

I'm done playing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I'm not wearing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I'm no longer staying in my house or catering to 𝘆𝗼𝘂 because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared. I'm not wearing a mask and I'm not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I'm not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it's not because of 𝘆𝗼𝘂, it's because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick.

This virus (or whatever it is) is already circulating. Millions of people have already encountered it, as it's been circulating around the world probably since last September. You WILL have to confront this thing, if you haven’t already. There is no way around it, unless you lock yourself up in your house and it somehow doesn't manage to hop on some mail or some groceries that you ordered online.

𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not an excuse to destroy America. 𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not my fear and your fear does not have the right to interfere with my life, my job, my income or my future as a free American citizen. So if you're scared, you can just put your tin foil hat on, or even wrap foil all around your whole body - or around your whole house if you wish - but please keep your fear contained to your little corner of the world and don't contaminate me or my family or my Country.” 🇺🇸


Mike, I can't agree with you more! And you said it very well. y1

Now go fly and enjoy life, Jerry

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Masks
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2020, 08:24:41 AM »
That sounds about right, Ken!  Way back, there was a jokey bit of correspondence in AeroModeller about possible uses for the balsa dust we generate so freely in our workshops: one suggestion was "head filler for combat modellers"!

Wasn't for the waste of the balsa dust, I say use it to fill the head of the politicians. LL~ LL~
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Masks
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2020, 09:50:49 AM »
   The masks and other protocols used  by the general public are like putting a screen door on a submarine. Actually protecting yourself from something as small as a virus, or containing it, (which is actually much more difficult) requires far more than could practically be done on a mass scale.

   Masks are an entirely psychological phenomenon, it makes you think you are doing *something", and actually have some control over a situation that you have no real control over. The underlying issue is that, having lived lives of obscene luxury and safety (for 3 generations now) people cannot fathom that there are situations beyond their practical control, and therefore demand a solution on the assumption that there must be one.

 Ultimately, unless a vaccine is found in the next few months, I would guess the ultimate death toll will be about the (deaths per infection) *320 million. That seems to mean around 300,000-500,000 people might die in the USA. Assuming this was a naturally-developed virus, *it is no one's fault*, *nothing practical can be done to alter it*. Nature and the real world are a pretty harsh and there are some problems that *cannot be solved*, thinking that "this is the 21st century, we have moved beyond this sort of thing, this can't be happening to us!" is nonsense. We have been living a charmed life, but eventually probability catches up with you.

 Of course, the "it takes a village" types are all too happy to promise to do something and be seen to be doing something, effective are not, and all too happy to find a "solution" that eliminates any semblance of personal choice, because it plays to their end goals, that is, eliminating the uniquely American concept of individual liberty.

   Every proposed apocalyptic "crisis" for the last 50 years has,  oddly,  had the same solution.

 It also gives you a clearly visible signal of this "compliance", and thus wearing a mask almost immediately became your indication of virtue, or not, so it makes you feel superior to be more conservative about "safety".   

     If you don't want to catch Wuhan Flu, then don't go out and wait at home for a vaccine. That is your only realistic method of avoiding infection. Not practical on a mass scale, of course, and no guarantees at all, but its what little you can actually do that is effective to protect yourself. Otherwise, you wearing a mask, or other people wearing masks, will accomplish exactly nothing for "safety".

     Brett

p.s. Wuhan flu *absolutely is* a health crisis, it is a very real disease that you will almost certainly be exposed to (and maybe already have been), some chance of developing detectable symptoms from, and a very small but realistic chance of dying from. People who think it is entirely fake are probably just doing the same thing as the "safety screechers", they might realize that there is no real defense from it, and for their own peace of mind, must assume that it's just made-up. It definitely is not made up, the effects of been greatly exaggerated for purposes of manipulation, but very real and much more dangerous that a typical seasonal flu.

    For certain groups, in fact, the statistics are staggering, if you are over 75 - 80,  it's just short of a death sentence. Part of that is that in the most incompetent responses (New York and Florida), they had policies that nearly guaranteed exposure of large numbers of people already compromised to the point they were in nursing homes. A lot of this was avoidable with even simple precautions,


I was going to say; The virus is here, It will be here forever, and if you don't get it this year, and you live long enough, you will most certainly get it at some point. Are all you pro maskers going to wear masks for the rest of your life? If you're not prepared to do that, you're wasting your time.

As usual,  Brett's argument was far more eloquent, and 100% correct.

Derek

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Masks
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2020, 10:43:42 AM »
The sad part of this argument is that everybody is right.  The only answer to this Pan(ic)demic is a cure and a vaccine both of which will be here soon.   In the mean time there is nothing wrong with wearing a mask.    I have lived a few years in the Orient and they wear them allot.    What has everybody scared poopless is the spreading with no symptoms.  It is like we are all in a movie starting John Wayne and Henry Winkler.  Both arguments are right, we just need to stop thinking that there is only one.  If we have learned anything from this it is that you cannot have unprotected sex with Mother Nature,  the only thing more useless than our Federal and local governments is, well - nothing,  at least two generations of our kids have been totally brainwashed and you can't trust the Chineese Government (period).

And 2020 is only 1/2 over ~^ - Ken
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Masks
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2020, 10:52:07 AM »
I guess we will see how this turns out in Texas.

I believe that wearing the mask in areas where I can't distance, even if is has minimal impact is worth doing. Something is still better than nothing and for me it can't hurt.

Best,    DennisT

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Masks
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2020, 11:25:21 AM »
I haven't read the multitude of "well-meaning" posts on this subject. Here'a all I really need to know:

I read about a recent experiment, conducted with the utmost care, regarding the effectiveness of a mask.

With no mask, a cough spreads droplets up to 10 ft, indoors with no large air circulation.

A home-brew "bandana" mask spreads 3 to 4 ft.

A proper mask designed for the purpose limits the spread to about 6 inches!

It would be really nice if everyone really understood those numbers.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Masks
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2020, 12:00:58 PM »
 y1
I haven't read the multitude of "well-meaning" posts on this subject. Here'a all I really need to know:

I read about a recent experiment, conducted with the utmost care, regarding the effectiveness of a mask.

With no mask, a cough spreads droplets up to 10 ft, indoors with no large air circulation.

A home-brew "bandana" mask spreads 3 to 4 ft.

A proper mask designed for the purpose limits the spread to about 6 inches!

It would be really nice if everyone really understood those numbers.
y1
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Masks
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2020, 01:01:00 PM »
I haven't read the multitude of "well-meaning" posts on this subject. Here'a all I really need to know:

I read about a recent experiment, conducted with the utmost care, regarding the effectiveness of a mask.

With no mask, a cough spreads droplets up to 10 ft, indoors with no large air circulation.

A home-brew "bandana" mask spreads 3 to 4 ft.

A proper mask designed for the purpose limits the spread to about 6 inches!

It would be really nice if everyone really understood those numbers.

        I can also report a careful experiment, repeated many times with 100% success rate, that shows the ritual sacrifice of a prisoner by ripping out his still-beating heart is what powers the sun. They did it over and over, and the sun never went away. Q. E. D.

    Brett

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Masks
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2020, 01:19:10 PM »
I agree with Floyd's post but there are varying results depends on how the mask is made and worn. I also agree with Brett's earlier post that we all will eventually face this virus, many may already have and didn't know it.

For me the point of wearing the mask and distancing is to help slow the spread and flatten the rate of infection curve. I think the whole purpose of the shut down was to get the heath facilities to where they could handle the case load. I think with the recent surge in some areas that is what we are trying to do, just keep it at a rate the hospitals can keep up with, without running short of PPE or burning out doctors/nurses/staff.

Best,  DennisT   

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Masks
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2020, 03:27:20 PM »
        I can also report a careful experiment, repeated many times with 100% success rate, that shows the ritual sacrifice of a prisoner by ripping out his still-beating heart is what powers the sun. They did it over and over, and the sun never went away. Q. E. D.

    Brett
Not scientific, no control group.  I thought it was virgins?  Maybe they ran out and switched to prisoners. LL~
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Masks
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2020, 06:22:51 PM »
My wife and I went to a restaurant a couple of days ago to eat. Kind of hard to wear a mask while eating. The next day I went ot my eye doctor. He was wearing a mask. I told him I do not hear well but read lips just fine. I told him we were going to have a hard time communicating if he kept the mask on. He said, if you do not mind I will take it off because I believe they do zip to protect anyone. He said He just did it for those who believe it helps.

But, we have only had one or two cases in our county and the next one over. Why wear a mask when there is no threat. Our town swimming pool is open and full of people swimming without masks. Some people are wearing masks when shopping, but most are not. We could save more lives if we outlawed cars. Everyone knows SUV's kill on contact.

I have had the Asian flu, the swine flu, and we never had a lock down for either one. School continued in both cases. Just sayin. Of course that was 60 years ago. If someone back then had said we all have to stay in our houses till the flu season passes they would have sent for the men in white coats.
Jim Kraft

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Masks
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2020, 08:01:44 AM »
Hey Jim Carter...you said "Well, ten days later as you lay in the intensive care ward ...  well, can me and the guys stop by your place and have all your model airplane stuff??   LL~ LL~"

you sir seem to think if I get covid for not wearing and ineffectual mask is roll on the floor funny.....perhaps you meant ironic or sad......
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Masks
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2020, 10:08:05 AM »
After flying my planes yesterday I went home just as a storm was approaching.  Changed to dry clothes as the humidity has me really sweating.  Checked and races were still on. Got to the track and no people lined up at ticket stand.  Was stuck out on the roadway to the track with fans and racers trying to get in.   Seems storm had the track closed for a bit.  Had to wear mask to get ticket and get to the grandstands.  Seems people just wore the mask to get in and go to concession stands.  They were in process of grading the top layer of mud off the track  Was tired when I got home at one AM.

Did see a friend I hadn't seen for a while who claimed he was cured of the China virus(covid-19).  Said none of his family members were infected either while hw had it.  Didn't say what the cure was.  Makes me wonder. ???
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Online Fred Underwood

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Re: Masks
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2020, 12:14:42 PM »
Here is a direct quote i lifted from an article from The New England Journal of Medicine.

"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."

Mike

The NEJM article noted above that seemed to suggest mask as not helpful.  The same authors of the article saw that their article was cited to discredit mask wearing and quickly published the correct interpretation urging people to wear masks.  A short two paragraphs of explanation in their correction.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2020836

In addition, more explanation from a medical viewpoint below.

Viral particles are magnitudes larger that our normal breathable gas "particles" or molecules.  Masks may filter particles and still allow gasses to pass.  Unfortunately odors are not blocked, but then neither is the oxygen that we need nor the carbon dioxide we exhale.  To be fair, virus particles are also smaller that the filter or screen size of many masks, but viral particles are said to be in Brownian random motion, not straight line motion.  That makes the mask more effective.  In addition, most of the viral particles are attached to respiratory secretions from its host, making filtering much more effective. 

A surgeon standing over an open operating site such as heart and lungs, abdominal cavity, or brain will be wearing a surgical mask.  It is to keep his secretions out of the patient through air travel.  His mask is quite permeable to air, but keeps his oral and nasal secretions trapped.  It would not protect him from harmful particles incoming, that would be the n95 mask.  But, I’m sure that you would be happy that he wears it.  Of course a medical worker in a lab with something deadly like Ebola would likely wear a full suit with an air supply.

Simple layered cotton masks have been shown affective at knocking down respiratory secretions with their viral particles.  Your mask can greatly diminish the risk to others.  If all wear them in public and congested areas, then the spread is reduced significantly.

This is not intended as a political statement, but some of the medical information behind mask use.  Medical explanations aren’t law and can’t tell you to wear the masks.  This might help understand why smelling odor through a mask doesn’t mean that it isn’t effective.


« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 04:05:37 PM by Fred Underwood »
Fred
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Offline Gene Martine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2020, 03:38:33 PM »
 
             Mask it
                or
             Casket

Offline Joe Ed Pederson

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Re: Masks
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2020, 12:30:10 PM »

             Mask it
                or
             Casket


 ~^My, of my.   You mean the two million they told us would die of the China flu REALLY HAVE DIED of the China flu and they have hidden the truth from us??!!!!

Hurry boys!  Reserve your casket before there's a run on them like there was on toilet paper!

Joe Ed Pederson

Offline Terrence Durrill

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Re: Masks
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2020, 02:45:34 PM »
Yes this may control our flying, but I intend to fight it   In my area Shawnee has joined the Kansas City area in saying we must wear mask if we are out side homes/houses.  I for one told my wife I will not wear one.  She told me it will be required for me to attend Church.  I told her I guess I will stay home and worship my LORD and Savior there.   Same with shopping, if they say I need a mask I will go back home.  Also if at the flying field if I am alone why should I need a mask.  May need a defense lawyer in time.  Wait and see. S?P

              Just a note of support, John.  I feel the same way about the mask question.  Good luck.   D>K       H^^

Offline Terrence Durrill

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Re: Masks
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2020, 02:57:06 PM »
Yes this may control our flying, but I intend to fight it   In my area Shawnee has joined the Kansas City area in saying we must wear mask if we are out side homes/houses.  I for one told my wife I will not wear one.  She told me it will be required for me to attend Church.  I told her I guess I will stay home and worship my LORD and Savior there.   Same with shopping, if they say I need a mask I will go back home.  Also if at the flying field if I am alone why should I need a mask.  May need a defense lawyer in time.  Wait and see. S?P
 

                       Just a note of support John.  I feel the same way about the "mask issue".  Good luck !       D>K       H^^


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