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Author Topic: Masks  (Read 8534 times)

Offline Mark wood

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Re: Masks
« Reply #100 on: July 12, 2020, 11:12:32 AM »
WOW...

Something to ponder. The gasoline molecule is larger than the water molecule that COVID 19 virus rides on. There is a lot of scientific testing which concludes that the masks being worn are at best shown to be null at preventing the spread of viruses. That is, not sown to be effective and not shown to be ineffective. In all tests, when there was a positive effect, that positive was in combination with other elements such as washing hands which is considered far more effective.

If you want to know how effective your mask is, a simple test can be done. Since a gasoline molecule is much larger than a water molecule it should be more readily stopped by a mask. Put your mask on, remove the cap on your gas tank and give it a sniff. If you can smell gasoline, your mask is not sufficient to stop the gasoline molecule which large than the water molecule with the virus on it, your mask is not preventing the passage of the virus. In other words, that mask is neither keeping you safe nor is it keeping others safe.

You don't have to accept what I say and your opinion is your opinion. Two of us disagree. The common ground is I allow you to go about your day wearing your mask and keeping you distance and you allow me to go about my day not wearing a mask and giving you your space you want. Tyranny is when either of us forcibly impose our will on the other.
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Offline BillP

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Re: Masks
« Reply #101 on: July 12, 2020, 11:19:21 AM »
Can you blame him..... now that he is not under the constraints of Trump's bogus national virus taskforce he is speaking more freely and telling the public the real facts.

If you think fauci didn't have the balls to tell the "facts" when under Trump, what makes you think he is credible now? It sounds like you are saying he was untruthful then but truthful now. You have one choice of four options with fauci...right, wrong misleading and all of the above.
 
Bill P.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Masks
« Reply #102 on: July 12, 2020, 11:51:21 AM »
Who can believe any body these days.   My eighth grade teacher used to tell us not to tell stories with out fact or as she would say it, " believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see".  In Church this morning the Pastor's wife did the service.  Lesson on English and Treason.  As she went I wonder why no lawyer has guts enough to charge the people for treason as they started impeachment procedings before our President Trump was even elected as well as before he even took the oath of office.  But, I guess when you are rich enough you can buy your way out of any crime as has happened in the past with several that are still running free  If you don't believe it go look at the stuff that has been aired and has been proven false or not verifiable.  Nothing like ruining a person life also by making him say things and making it look like he is guilty.  What happened to the laws of purjury when when keep saying what they different from what they said months before.   Any way I wear my mask to get past the entrance and then keep distance from people.  No shaking hands or hugging any more. D>K
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Offline Dwayne Donnelly

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Re: Masks
« Reply #103 on: July 12, 2020, 12:49:39 PM »
Here you go.  n~ LL~
My purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Masks
« Reply #104 on: July 12, 2020, 01:24:29 PM »
Coups, tyranny, treason whatever wander on..... somewhere in the middle is the truth as they always say. The fact is we have some states that have decided not to practice safe distancing, closing down gathering environments, or insisting people wear masks and they are in big trouble. Whatever numbers you want to get behind check out Arizona, as of this morning the hospitals reported they are almost out of ICU beds statewide, cases are hitting highest in the country and deaths are climbing daily. Now compare New York where people got smart, they learned the benefits of the expert's recommendations, and even are you ready WORE MASKS. Believe what you like and when we hit 200K COVID deaths by the election no big deal right?

Offline Tim Just

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Re: Masks
« Reply #105 on: July 12, 2020, 02:41:36 PM »
I recently purchased a handle from Chris Cox. Included in the package were a couple of wonderful hand made masks courtesy of Joan Cox.  My flight test wearing my new mask this morning were inconclusive.  More testing to be conducted soon.

Tim

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Masks
« Reply #106 on: July 12, 2020, 02:52:23 PM »
Coups, tyranny, treason whatever wander on..... somewhere in the middle is the truth as they always say. The fact is we have some states that have decided not to practice safe distancing, closing down gathering environments, or insisting people wear masks and they are in big trouble. Whatever numbers you want to get behind check out Arizona, as of this morning the hospitals reported they are almost out of ICU beds statewide, cases are hitting highest in the country and deaths are climbing daily. Now compare New York where people got smart, they learned the benefits of the expert's recommendations, and even are you ready WORE MASKS. Believe what you like and when we hit 200K COVID deaths by the election no big deal right?

      You are just buying into the fear mongering that they are perpetrating. All of that was said about New York when all of this crap started so Trump ordered a US Navy hospital ship to deploy to New York Harbor after Cuomo threw a few hissy fits. A week later, it was pulled out after it was discovered it was not really needed and I don't think it ever saw a patient.  Notice that they did not close down the subway system, which is just a really long underground petri dish!  Lots  and lots of verified stories of news footage being staged for the cameras to keep the fire stoked. I don't believe anything that comes out of New York or anyone with the last name of Cuomo.
   Type at you later,
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Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Masks
« Reply #107 on: July 12, 2020, 02:52:58 PM »
Tim,

Did you experience spatial disorientation or hypoxia? If the latter I'd look for another mask.

Steve

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Masks
« Reply #108 on: July 12, 2020, 03:11:48 PM »
Dan,

That's a real pile of confusion and misinformation I won't even bother responding to. I guess though I should have tossed in the Florida example as well but I know it wouldn't have made much difference, you don't accept the facts.  Why don't we just table the argument until after November when Trump is asked to leave his safety bunker claiming to be our hero. I suspect (hopefully) perhaps by then the non-believers will eventually catch on but what's another 70K deaths right no big deal.

Steve

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: Masks
« Reply #109 on: July 12, 2020, 04:28:24 PM »
Steve:

If you're indeed concerned about innocent lives being killed, please say something to your chosen party about abortion/Planned Parenthood. The abortion figures are staggering. There will be something like 800,000+ babies aborted this year alone. Some years that figure is above 1 million.

Last total figure I heard some time ago is that 35+ MILLION babies have been killed since abortion was legalized.

SO, do you sincerely want to get onboard and protect the innocent in a known and factual struggle? Do you honestly want to stop destruction of life that is fact-based? Then join us and help vote out those lawmakers that support such atrocities.

Oh wait, you think we conservatives are the "bad guys/gals"... so you'll likely continue to buy into whatever lunacy and hypocricy your party tells you to.

Thus, you can peddle your false concern elsewhere, for if you won't take a stand against abortion, then whatever you say about saving the innocent is pretty much empty words and feigned concern.

Andre
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Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Masks
« Reply #110 on: July 12, 2020, 05:00:42 PM »
Andre,

False concerns???  You have to learn to pick your battles, I voted and was behind Mr. Trump until he let me down. I also don't agree with abortions as a practicing Catholic so don't lay that on me. I'm not a lefty listening to the lunacy of that side either. Regardless of the higher death rate from other means such as auto accidents, viruses and abortions why should I stand by and consider the COVID 19 as a mundane annoyance driven by political thinking when people are dying from it every day. This makes no sense. You'll have to do better to convince me to side with your thinking. Keep in mind the number 200k dead by November, if the thought doesn't have an impact on you I feel sorry for you and the right base blindly standing behind Donald Trump.
 
Steve

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Masks
« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2020, 07:25:38 PM »
Andre,

False concerns???  You have to learn to pick your battles, I voted and was behind Mr. Trump until he let me down. I also don't agree with abortions as a practicing Catholic so don't lay that on me. I'm not a lefty listening to the lunacy of that side either. Regardless of the higher death rate from other means such as auto accidents, viruses and abortions why should I stand by and consider the COVID 19 as a mundane annoyance driven by political thinking when people are dying from it every day. This makes no sense. You'll have to do better to convince me to side with your thinking. Keep in mind the number 200k dead by November, if the thought doesn't have an impact on you I feel sorry for you and the right base blindly standing behind Donald Trump.
 
Steve

   And everything that you just quoted you learned from the left leaning liberal media, and that includes the death meter, which we know is greatly inflated. If it wasn't held under a micro scope, you wouldn't hear anything about it. It it wasn't being driven by some nefarious agenda, it wouldn't be of anyone's interest. 200K by November? Howe about more than a million from Tuberculosis by then?   It's even an air borne disease, no one has to spit on you. Forget about abortions if you want, doctors kill people every day. The numbers are staggering, but all the focus is put on the covid bug, and we know why!
   Type at you later,
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Offline Jared Hays

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Re: Masks
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2020, 10:30:08 PM »

I was going to say; The virus is here, It will be here forever, and if you don't get it this year, and you live long enough, you will most certainly get it at some point. Are all you pro maskers going to wear masks for the rest of your life? If you're not prepared to do that, you're wasting your time.

As usual,  Brett's argument was far more eloquent, and 100% correct.

Derek

What they said,,, I wont be wearing one, oh you don't like it, then stay away from me, at least 6 feet lol   #^

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #113 on: July 13, 2020, 05:04:21 AM »
Andre,

False concerns???  You have to learn to pick your battles, I voted and was behind Mr. Trump until he let me down. I also don't agree with abortions as a practicing Catholic so don't lay that on me. I'm not a lefty listening to the lunacy of that side either. Regardless of the higher death rate from other means such as auto accidents, viruses and abortions why should I stand by and consider the COVID 19 as a mundane annoyance driven by political thinking when people are dying from it every day. This makes no sense. You'll have to do better to convince me to side with your thinking. Keep in mind the number 200k dead by November, if the thought doesn't have an impact on you I feel sorry for you and the right base blindly standing behind Donald Trump.
 
Steve

Steve, do you understand how COVID-19 deaths are counted?

John Doe is walking down the street when 3 thugs decide to riddle him with bullets.  He falls and bleeds to death.  The coroner determines that, while he completely recovered, he had active COVID-19 at one time.

He's a COVID-19 fatality.  Yup, with all the folks dying of heart failure, strokes, cancer, auto accidents, etc., it'll be a wonder if we don't hit at least 300,000 by election time.  SOME will actually die due to the virus!


Dennis
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #114 on: July 13, 2020, 05:21:40 AM »
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, in a recent CNN interview, said the Big Apple is going to have to do without parades, fairs, concerts, and other gatherings that allow citizens to gather and socialize.  But Black Lives Matter protests are - to paraphrase - "just too important at this time".  No curtailing them.

Think you're being played?


Dennis

PS: Mask or no mask not an issue here, I don't mind making others feel more safe.  But it can't be more obvious that much of what we see is an abuse of power.  Example: The Governor of Washington State declared masks mandatory in about 4 Counties, but made it optional for people of color.

Again: Think you're being played?






Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: Masks
« Reply #115 on: July 13, 2020, 06:15:57 AM »
"I also don't agree with abortions as a practicing Catholic so don't lay that on me."

Steve, if you intentionally vote for the very party that most vehemently advocates abortion/Planned Parenthood, then you are indeed part of the problem with that issue. I'm not laying anything on you, you're taking it upon yourself. You are saying by your vote: "Go for it. These unborn children are much less important than getting rid of Trump".

I'm not a staunch Trump advocate. As I've mentioned in other threads here, this upcoming election is FAR MORE IMPORTANT and FAR TRANSCENDS the personality quirks of the one's that are in the running. It's the IDEALS of the party that must be gravely considered before casting the vote.

In addition to my stance on the abortion issue, I'll also say that as a person that is trying to follow the teachings of Christ, I can NOT for the life of me understand how ANY person that wants to follow the teachings of Christ as a guideline for their lives, could EVER vote for such an anti-God, anti-American, anti-freedom, anti-capitalist, anti-Constitution, anti-Bill of Rights, anti-everything that helped make this Nation the greatest nation on earth, could EVER vote for what the Democrat party has become.

I will be voting for the party (in this case the GOP) that I feel will give me the best chance of holding on to as many freedoms as I can and hopefully stave off socialism/communism/totalitarianism/etc for 4 more years.

I sincerely implore you to consider the above points. This upcoming election is SO MUCH MORE than "not liking Trump". Our very foundations as a Nation are at stake. Please let that sink in.

Andre
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Offline GEORGE CONNORS

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Re: Masks
« Reply #116 on: July 13, 2020, 06:34:26 AM »

Ohio man, 37, dies from coronavirus after claiming the pandemic which has killed more than 135,000 people was just 'hype' in a facebook post

A 37-year-old Ohio man who claimed the coronavirus pandemic was just 'hype' and repeatedly refused to wear a face mask has died from COVID-19.

Richard Rose, a staunch supporter of Donald Trump, wrote on facebook on July 1 that he was experiencing COVID-19 symptoms, and went to get tested.

The US Army veteran, who served for nine years and did two tours of Iraq and Afghanistan, tested positive.

He died from the virus at his home in Port Clinton, Ohio, on July 4.
Richard Rose (left), 37, of Ohio, who claimed the coronavirus pandemic was just 'hype' in a facebook post (top right), has died from COVID-19. Rose wrote on facebook that he was experiencing symptoms on July 1 and went to get tested. The US Army veteran tested positive and died from the virus at his home just two days later. He claimed on April 28 that the pandemic was just 'hype', saying: 'Let make this clear. I'm not buying a f**king mask. I've made it this far by not buying into that damn hype.' Leading up to his death, Rose shared updates about his health, writing on July 1: 'I've been very sick the past few days. Symptoms of Covid-19. This morning I finally got swabbed. I should know soon what the results are. I just want to feel good again!' Later that day he revealed that he had tested positive for the virus


Mr. Rose died on July 4, 2020.;   PLEASE STAND AT ATTENTION AS HIS CASKET PASSES BY.

GC
george connors

Offline Frank Imbriaco

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Re: Masks
« Reply #117 on: July 13, 2020, 06:44:55 AM »
Here you go.  n~ LL~

Like that.
 Had one just like that on my 71 Nova SS back in the day.
God how I wish that I kept that car !

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Masks
« Reply #118 on: July 13, 2020, 08:36:32 AM »
The sheeple are being programed to obey the new rule of the day. Why we are going to lose our hobby over the next few years. The do gooders are trying to save the world while doing their best to kill the world.

That guy in that video made more sense than 97 percent of what you hear on the lying news media every day. Thanks   for putting that up Dan. A guy with some common sense which is very lacking these days. The hypocrisy of these do gooders is so off base.
Jim Kraft

Online John Park

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Re: Masks
« Reply #119 on: July 13, 2020, 09:50:05 AM »
Something to ponder. The gasoline molecule is larger than the water molecule that COVID 19 virus rides on.
Something else to ponder: how many molecules of various elements and compounds does it take to make up a single Coronavirus spore (or whatever they're called)?  The idea of one of those 'riding' on a single water molecule is not something that will stand up to serious examination.  It's droplets on which the virus can ride, not individual molecules, and a good mask can filter out even 'aerosol'-sized droplets.
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Offline BillP

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Re: Masks
« Reply #120 on: July 13, 2020, 10:01:47 AM »
Coups, tyranny, treason whatever wander on..... somewhere in the middle is the truth as they always say. The fact is we have some states that have decided not to practice safe distancing, closing down gathering environments, or insisting people wear masks and they are in big trouble. Whatever numbers you want to get behind check out Arizona, as of this morning the hospitals reported they are almost out of ICU beds statewide, cases are hitting highest in the country and deaths are climbing daily. Now compare New York where people got smart, they learned the benefits of the expert's recommendations, and even are you ready WORE MASKS. Believe what you like and when we hit 200K COVID deaths by the election no big deal right?

Nobody is saying covid is no big deal except you.

As far as following NY because they "got smart"...NY and Florida have almost the same population hovering around 20M. NY deaths are 32k+ and Fl deaths at 4k+. NY sent covid patients to senior facilities and infected 1000s. Fl locked senior facilities down in March and they are still on lock down. Florida cases are increasing rapidly while the death rate dropping. NY govt never listened to the experts until it was too late, they just killed 1000s of innocent citizens due to stupidity.   
Bill P.

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #121 on: July 13, 2020, 10:31:20 AM »
Just for fun take a look at South Dakota and real leadership.  No mandatory shutdown.  Governor Kristi Noem - beautiful as well as smart and decisive - maintained it's government's job to educate people as well as possible, then let them make decisions.  109 deaths so far,

Sure, you can argue the population is low, but Rapid City for example isn't exactly the wilderness.  We love it there, would leave Minnesota in a heartbeat but my son will be a senior in the fall and leaving his friends now would be a bummer.

Protests: She had National Guard troops in place in several cities BEFORE any significant problems could arise.  Sioux Falls had ONE night of rioting and vandalism in one particular area as I understand it; next day TV station began running videos and citizens started turning troublemakers in.

Vehicles blocking roads were towed away promptly, with applauding citizens lining streets as they went by.

Wahoo!  Leadership!  Go Girl!


Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Masks
« Reply #122 on: July 13, 2020, 10:40:13 AM »
She must not be a true democrat or leftist. D>K
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #123 on: July 13, 2020, 11:17:19 AM »
Republican all the way, Doc!  South Dakota is a great Conservative state ... and blessed by Mother Nature!


Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Masks
« Reply #124 on: July 14, 2020, 12:58:23 AM »
Prof. Denis Rancourt of Canada has recently written a letter to the boss of the WHO to debunk the insistence of masks for the general public. The paper has many scientific references to back up what the scientific understanding of this highly emotional subject has always been. It's not like this virus is a sudden huge difference from any other bad virus that has hit the world before, so the real question that any critical thinker should ask is why all of a sudden is this over-reaction being perpetrated? . If you are really interested then watch of few of his other YouTube videos. This document is well worth the read and make sure to check out the references as well.

Keith R
Keith R

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #125 on: July 14, 2020, 03:40:06 AM »
Prof. Denis Rancourt of Canada has recently written a letter to the boss of the WHO to debunk the insistence of masks for the general public. The paper has many scientific references to back up what the scientific understanding of this highly emotional subject has always been. It's not like this virus is a sudden huge difference from any other bad virus that has hit the world before, so the real question that any critical thinker should ask is why all of a sudden is this over-reaction being perpetrated? . If you are really interested then watch of few of his other YouTube videos. This document is well worth the read and make sure to check out the references as well.

Keith R


That's an earful - and well written.  Thanks Keith!

I spent 7-1/2 year in scientific research - and don't recall ever using the terms "stigmatization", "making people feel", "reminding people", "encouraging the public", "offer a source of income", "cultural expression" in reports on my projects.

In other words, the letter points out what we already know - WHO may or may not offer correct information, but they are beyond doubt a biased political entity that doesn't serve American interests.

As far as the science summarized - we could obtain recommendations from a local garbage collector that would be about equally fact-based.

Once again: Are we being played?


Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Masks
« Reply #126 on: July 14, 2020, 11:25:44 AM »
Big difference between past epidemics and now is the inter-net.  Here in the USA is politicians who didn't accomplish what they started  back before an election was even done.  Now the media reports what the politicians want them to report with the exception of a couple of reporters who can't be bought.  Who is getting the profits from the manufacture of the face masks?  I asked the wife, "Why $9.95 for a face mask"?   She stated it is the little port hole filters that filter the air.   Went to Wal-Mart and the young man counting number of people entering did not have a mask, but I didn't bring it up as he was already inside and was over 6 foot from partition between him and customers. D>K
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Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: Masks
« Reply #127 on: July 14, 2020, 02:02:02 PM »
WOW...

Something to ponder. The gasoline molecule is larger than the water molecule that COVID 19 virus rides on. There is a lot of scientific testing which concludes that the masks being worn are at best shown to be null at preventing the spread of viruses. That is, not sown to be effective and not shown to be ineffective. In all tests, when there was a positive effect, that positive was in combination with other elements such as washing hands which is considered far more effective.

If you want to know how effective your mask is, a simple test can be done. Since a gasoline molecule is much larger than a water molecule it should be more readily stopped by a mask. Put your mask on, remove the cap on your gas tank and give it a sniff. If you can smell gasoline, your mask is not sufficient to stop the gasoline molecule which large than the water molecule with the virus on it, your mask is not preventing the passage of the virus. In other words, that mask is neither keeping you safe nor is it keeping others safe.

You don't have to accept what I say and your opinion is your opinion. Two of us disagree. The common ground is I allow you to go about your day wearing your mask and keeping you distance and you allow me to go about my day not wearing a mask and giving you your space you want. Tyranny is when either of us forcibly impose our will on the other.


Mark, That goes right along with Sparky's analogy of the "Fart"...........molecule.  LL~ LL~

Jerry


Offline Tony Drago

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Re: Masks
« Reply #128 on: July 14, 2020, 02:06:38 PM »
Excellent question Doc!

Nearly $1 billion deal to receive 200 million masks per month from a Chinese manufacturer.
The California Senate and Assembly have also been kept in the dark about the deal.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/05/gov-newsom-rejects-request-for-details-on-1b-china-mask-deal/

Id like to see his bank account and tax records.

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Masks
« Reply #129 on: July 15, 2020, 03:48:45 AM »
Heartening to hear this conversation. A bit of moderation. Rate of infection down to .98 percent in NYC. Looks like strict clear guidelines of simple health practices, which include wearing masks,  have turned the situation around. There have been days without any deaths. 8.5 million people in NYC, more population than 37 states. Everyone densely pact. This is quite an achievement.


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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Masks
« Reply #130 on: July 15, 2020, 06:07:31 AM »
Heartening to hear this conversation. A bit of moderation. Rate of infection down to .98 percent in NYC. Looks like strict clear guidelines of simple health practices, which include wearing masks,  have turned the situation around. There have been days without any deaths. 8.5 million people in NYC, more population than 37 states. Everyone densely pact. This is quite an achievement.


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      And you really don't have any idea that any of that wasn't true before?  You are getting this information from the same sketchy sources as when this all started. And you really think everyone is wearing masks?
  Type at you later,
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Masks
« Reply #131 on: July 15, 2020, 08:12:12 AM »
Not sure what the big deal is about wearing a simple mask and keeping some distance when with a group of people is, even if it is only minimally effective. This is one of those things that seems like a no brainer. Seems it works in other countries that have gone through this.

Looking at the NATS videos it seems that only a very few people are wearing masks in the group bull sessions. I can see when you are out on the flight line as there is plenty of space but under the tents is a different story. I guess they will be a medical experiment. We will see.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #132 on: July 15, 2020, 03:50:00 PM »
Not sure what the big deal is about wearing a simple mask and keeping some distance when with a group of people is, even if it is only minimally effective. This is one of those things that seems like a no brainer. Seems it works in other countries that have gone through this.

Looking at the NATS videos it seems that only a very few people are wearing masks in the group bull sessions. I can see when you are out on the flight line as there is plenty of space but under the tents is a different story. I guess they will be a medical experiment. We will see.

Best,   DennisT


I agree with you Dennis; my son and I were out running errands for several hours today and wearing a mask for a brief time is fine with me if it makes others more comfortable.  But - as Dad used to say - "It's the principle of the thing".

The video posted above points out a few absurdities.  Why is it OK for hundreds of people to scream and shout in Minneapolis for several days, but typical hour-long worship services must be limited to "about 12 people"?  I can't step into McDonald's to place an order, but I can step into the adjoining gas station to purchase lottery tickets?

I believe the real issue is "control".  Politicians typically love it, especially those of a particular flavor!

Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: Masks
« Reply #133 on: July 15, 2020, 05:01:38 PM »
Something else to ponder: how many molecules of various elements and compounds does it take to make up a single Coronavirus spore (or whatever they're called)?  The idea of one of those 'riding' on a single water molecule is not something that will stand up to serious examination.  It's droplets on which the virus can ride, not individual molecules, and a good mask can filter out even 'aerosol'-sized droplets.
Just to expand on that a little after a bit of checking.
A water molecule is ~.3 nanometres in diameter.
The virus is ~125 nanometres in diameter so about 420 times larger than water molecule.
Experiments have shown that some of the smallest water vapour from breathing is ~6000 nanometeres in diameter or roughly 15 times larger than the virus.

Of course these figures are simply diameters but if you then consider VOLUMES the differences get rather dramatic (roughly speaking the cube of the diameters so 15x15x15 or ~3000 viruses in the smallest water vapour).

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Masks
« Reply #134 on: July 15, 2020, 07:25:03 PM »
Heartening to hear this conversation. A bit of moderation. Rate of infection down to .98 percent in NYC. Looks like strict clear guidelines of simple health practices, which include wearing masks,  have turned the situation around.

    When you kill tens of thousands of the vulnerable in the first six weeks, you don't have many people left to kill 3 months later. That doesn't seem like much to be proud of.

   New York is a perfect example of what NOT to do, Cuomo and De Blasio have exhibited deadly incompetence. 32,000+ deaths, population 19 million. California 7300 deaths, population 40 million - and that's a guy whose chief job qualification is filling a suit.

   New York has 6% of the US population, and 24% of the deaths. That's a national disgrace, typical of totalitarian governments run like a banana republic, give a lot of stupid orders, kill a lot of people through bumbling (including more-or-less intentionally infecting senior citizens who make up the vast majority of the victims), and proclaim it a success.

   Figures you would be bragging about it.

     Brett

Offline peabody

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Re: Masks
« Reply #135 on: July 15, 2020, 07:31:18 PM »
Of course Brett is right....he's NEVER been wrong. NY pioneered response, and TREATMENT. Lots was learned and lots dies while finding treatment.
I'm enjoying a week of self-quarantine while awaiting test results.

They have learned a ton about treatment.

I watch the videos of the Nats....talk about thinning the herd.....

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Masks
« Reply #136 on: July 15, 2020, 08:24:20 PM »
Dennis,
I understand the idea of being told vs advised to do something. I think we need to think of this a not a political issue but simply self preservation by doing something that could help prevent one from getting infected with something that could be deadly. In some states they have mandated mask and others (like here in FL) recommend but don't require. It seems that officials are not explaining the possible benefits. In states without the requirement there seems to be a lot who think "well its not a requirement so its ok to go back to normal".  Seems some people need to have a mandate, they don't think it through and take it as "control" rather than public heath.  The reality is that there is no way that the government could enforce the requirement to any great extent but just having it in place works for some that need to be told. So for them OK we have rules. For the rest of, we will use common sense and protect ourselves, family and friends whether the tell us to or not.

As far as NY most of the cases were in the burbs close around NYC. For these people they used mass transit (packed subways, trains and busses not to clean at that) and worked in high rise buildings, just lots of people in very close quarters. It seems places where people were very close together were the hot spots. It then spreads outward to the surrounding communities. When this started no one really understood how fast it could spread. No one had any better ideas as to how to handle this and slowly they have learned things that can help we but are still learning,

Best,    DennisT

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #137 on: July 15, 2020, 10:12:25 PM »
Dennis,
I understand the idea of being told vs advised to do something. I think we need to think of this a not a political issue but simply self preservation by doing something that could help prevent one from getting infected with something that could be deadly. In some states they have mandated mask and others (like here in FL) recommend but don't require. It seems that officials are not explaining the possible benefits. In states without the requirement there seems to be a lot who think "well its not a requirement so its ok to go back to normal".  Seems some people need to have a mandate, they don't think it through and take it as "control" rather than public heath.  The reality is that there is no way that the government could enforce the requirement to any great extent but just having it in place works for some that need to be told. So for them OK we have rules. For the rest of, we will use common sense and protect ourselves, family and friends whether the tell us to or not.

As far as NY most of the cases were in the burbs close around NYC. For these people they used mass transit (packed subways, trains and busses not to clean at that) and worked in high rise buildings, just lots of people in very close quarters. It seems places where people were very close together were the hot spots. It then spreads outward to the surrounding communities. When this started no one really understood how fast it could spread. No one had any better ideas as to how to handle this and slowly they have learned things that can help we but are still learning,

Best,    DennisT


DennisT, I think we will have to agree to disagree.  As previously stated, I spent 7-1/2 years in scientific research.  Please read the open letter to the WHO and point out the fact-based scientific proof that masks reduce infections or deaths.

Then please point out the CDC’s basis for concluding the same - oh wait, their recommendations seem to depend on the day of the week.  Last I heard they recommend masks but add lots of qualifiers, especially with regard to daily washing of cloth masks.

We here in Minnesota have a very experienced doctor who also serves as a Republican State Senator.  He’s often interviewed on national television programs.  Early on he pointed out the ridiculous guidelines issued for counting “COVID deaths” and also the very contradictory statements issued - literally simultaneously - by the CDC.  As a reward he’s now being investigated on the basis of complaints filed - by individuals he’s not allowed to know - for what is essentially malpractice.  You really think it’s not political?

How about some forecasts:

(1) Our economy will continue to suffer greatly - my wife and I noted just a couple of hours ago two businesses that have just closed in a mall we frequent.

(2) Schools here in Minnesota will not re-open for in-person classes.  Our Democratic Governor, who is operating under “Emergency Powers”, and the Teachers Union will determine that course without regard to the experiences of other states/nations with schools that are in session as I write this.

(3) Forget any notion of Presidential Debates.  Joe Biden today called Arizona a “great city”.  His handlers cannot in any way let him be put to the test.  The pandemic will be the excuse.

(4) Watch the number of suicides and mental health issues escalate.  We’ve had ONE COVID death in my county - and bear in mind, anyone who had the virus but recovered fully and then dies in a car accident is counted as a COVID death.  In the meantime, we’ve had ONE suicide I’m aware of and other deaths that - reading between the lines - are also.  And of course, the drug overdoses, auto accidents, domestic abuse ...

When Minnesota began to re-open a few weeks ago, we had a very-alarming rash of fatal accidents.  The State Patrol reported people were driving at incredibly high speeds rather routinely, releasing pent-up frustration.

(5) Political messages that fit the agenda will be exempt from many requirements.  How else can you explain de Blasio insisting Black Lives Matter Protests must be allowed to go on, or the Governor of Washington State exempting “People of Color” from requirements?  Here in Minnesota, while our Governor insisted church services must be limited to 12 people or something like that, he sat front and center at a packed memorial for George Floyd.

I could go on (and on) - but to deny much of what is happening is politically motivated strikes me as completely disregarding the facts and logic.  Your own mileage may vary ...


Dennis
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 11:01:29 PM by AirClassix »
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Masks
« Reply #138 on: July 15, 2020, 10:20:52 PM »
It is still amazing that an ex convict that was in prison at least a half dozen times is made a hero and died while the police man was trying to put him under arrest.    mw~
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #139 on: July 15, 2020, 11:24:28 PM »
It is still amazing that an ex convict that was in prison at least a half dozen times is made a hero and died while the police man was trying to put him under arrest.    mw~


That would be (Saint) George Floyd, yes.  High on 2 drugs and in possession of a third, it appears, after serving time for armed robbery.

Don't forget (Saint) Rayshard Brooks in Atlanta, with a very long record of theft, false imprisonment, obstructing an officer, felony cruelty and more.  His wife described him as a simply wonderful husband, father, person.  Never mind he was at Wendy's to meet his (white) girlfriend, who saw fit to set the Wendy's on fire following Rashard’s death.

Do you suppose the wife is in denial, or simply playing along with the script?

With men like these as martyrs, do you suppose the very young children who die in the violence are regarded as just "trailer trash" or some equivalent?  I’m not seeing any real protest over their deaths ...


Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Stuntflyn

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Re: Masks
« Reply #140 on: July 16, 2020, 01:33:15 AM »
Interesting discussion. Each of us has a right to believe and act as.we want as it pertains to the coronavirus. We are Americans after after all and many good men and women have died to give us that choice. Personally, I like to look at the big picture, so a world comparison is more my cup of tea.

Here is an article from CNN, not my favorite news outlet, but you can google any number of sources and find the same information elsewhere. The article is comparing the COVID response and statistics from Taiwan with other parts of the world.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/04/asia/taiwan-coronavirus-response-who-intl-hnk/index.html

You can draw your own conclusions.

While we are mostly disgusted with the media's attacks on our police, men who have sworn to protect us, we should not bury our heads in the sand thinking our criminal justice system is without serious flaws. It’s not every policeman, just as there are good and bad apples within every occupation in life. And it is not just police, the problem extends to prosecutors and judges as well. Again, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the barrel.

If you do not think there are serious problems within our criminal justice system, I would urge every American to listen to podcasts of “Wrongful Convictions” to see some real life examples of the criminal justice system gone haywire.

https://www.wrongfulconvictionpodcast.com/

You can also learn more at The Innocence Project:

https://www.innocenceproject.org/

Again, you can draw your own conclusions, but I guarantee you will be appalled as a good American at what you hear and read.

Becoming more educated is always a good thing. We should all learn something new each day to keep our brains active and our minds alert so we can design that next great stunt ship.

Though this thread is far from on topic on model stunt flying, everyone has been well behaved, so I don’t mind participating. It has been an interesting read so far.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Masks
« Reply #141 on: July 16, 2020, 04:06:54 AM »
Of course Brett is right....he's NEVER been wrong. NY pioneered response, and TREATMENT. Lots was learned and lots dies while finding treatment..

   The fact that they killed 32,000 people in the process - many needlessly exposed in nursing homes they could not escape - is just the cost of doing business?

     Thank goodness the rest of us don't have that level of, uh, consideration for our fellow human beings.

    Brett

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Masks
« Reply #142 on: July 16, 2020, 04:59:17 AM »
Infection rate in NYC is way down. New Yorkers brought it down through discipline and common sense. A response that is possible when strong clear leadership sets the tone and guidelines. Brett regarded the virus as a Euro Asian hoax. The deaths and infections a function of socialized medicine. Agree with him if you’re inclined. The twisted logic and incoherence amuses and saddens.


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Online Robert Zambelli

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Re: Masks
« Reply #143 on: July 16, 2020, 06:02:38 AM »
DM posted: "Infection rate in NYC is way down. New Yorkers brought it down through discipline and common sense. A response that is possible when strong clear leadership sets the tone and guidelines."

Kindly list the names of those responsible for "strong clear leadership".

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Masks
« Reply #144 on: July 16, 2020, 06:23:03 AM »
I completely side with Dennis M. on leadership and managing a problem. If you wish to remain "hung up" about your rights just look at the numbers. Early on the highest density part of the country was learning, could they have done some things different, sure, did they over react in some ways, yes but thank God they took the initiative and lead the state out of trouble. Numbers are numbers, liars figure and figures lie or something like this, the fact is the death rate in NY has diminished while other areas that wished to ignore the recommendations are now in deep do do. Thank goodness we are not a dictatorship here compared to some contries where failing to stay home results in an arrest and fines. Here some are mandating for the safety of the public where some peoples behavior can be detrimental to the health safety and lives of others. Why is this so controversial, how is there an argument here?

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #145 on: July 16, 2020, 08:31:22 AM »
DM posted: "Infection rate in NYC is way down. New Yorkers brought it down through discipline and common sense. A response that is possible when strong clear leadership sets the tone and guidelines."

Kindly list the names of those responsible for "strong clear leadership".

 LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline BillP

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Re: Masks
« Reply #146 on: July 16, 2020, 12:06:51 PM »
Thank goodness we are not a dictatorship here compared to some contries where failing to stay home results in an arrest and fines.

Evidently you aren't aware the mayor of NY city imposed a curfew in May/June making it unlawful to be outside during the PM hours. He had normal citizens arrested who were neither protesters or looters...exactly like a dictatorship.
Bill P.

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Masks
« Reply #147 on: July 16, 2020, 01:14:18 PM »
Good for him I hope he continues I love life.

Offline Tony Drago

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Re: Masks
« Reply #148 on: July 16, 2020, 02:40:31 PM »
 "DM posted: "Infection rate in NYC is way down. New Yorkers brought it down through discipline and common sense. A response that is possible when strong clear leadership sets the tone and guidelines."

 Just proved that the numbers are/were manipulated.

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Masks
« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2020, 05:52:34 PM »
It's a sad commentary on the human species when it becomes necessary for mayors, governors to MANDATE behavior.

If citizens had any common sense, they would have implemented  "social distancing" and masks without prodding or laws.

Humans seem slow to learn.  The survivors will be the ones with brains that work.
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