Hold Off On Registering Model Aircraft

[George Hostler]

I can understand some of the frustrations going through this process of registration. Fred brought up a valid point on thinking in the same manner a government agency thinks. For one, something needed to be done about some of the rogue flying done by various individuals. Most of it I don't think was done maliciously. There were however cases of invasion with privacy, interfering with air traffic patterns of low altitude traffic such as police, ambulatory, news and fire helicopters, and aircraft taking off and on approach, a few instances of higher flying First Person Video (FPV) aircraft.

So, a method was developed. Where we do have the opportunity to influence the system, most remained silent and did not contribute a comment to the FAA, when they asked for it. If they had received an overwhelming response may have changed this outcome.

You still have a chance to comment on the U.S. DOT/FAA - Interim Final Rule Regulatory Evaluation - Registration and Marking Requirements for Small Unmanned Aircraft: http://www.regulations.gov/#!submitComment;D=FAA-2015-7396-0002

Let's not be silent ....

[Target]

Oh, trust me, George, I commented...
And, no not ranting, just statements of fact, put forth in a no derogatory manner.

I think the problem is that there are too many influential folks inside that aren't the most energetic, nor the sharpest tools in the shed.
Because we all know that this solution is an ineffective one. It won't accomplish much, in my prediction.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I wasn't wrong a few years ago when I predicted this mess to my RC soaring buddies.
My fingers (and my eyes) are crossed.

R,
Chris

[George Hostler]

Oh, trust me, George, I commented... And, no not ranting, just statements of fact, put forth in a no derogatory manner. I think the problem is that there are too many influential folks inside that aren't the most energetic, nor the sharpest tools in the shed. Because we all know that this solution is an ineffective one. It won't accomplish much, in my prediction. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I wasn't wrong a few years ago when I predicted this mess to my RC soaring buddies. My fingers (and my eyes) are crossed. R, Chris

Hello Chris, my eyes feel crossed at the moment, too.

I wasn't singling out any one particular person. Even I felt a tinge of frustration just now when I completed commenting about exempting CL "tethered flight sUAS". (Contract Law, written governs over spoken. I commented on what I saw written.) Yes, I agree with you, with all the modelers out there, those who responded earlier were relatively few in comparison. To those who did comment, kudos to you all.

[Scott Richlen]

So now AMA issues a confusing advisory saying that all AMA members should register with FAA and then in the next sentence says that all RC modelers should register.  So, which is it?

[okcub2015]

My 2 cents worth, if you are an AMA member your stuck. The FAA will sooner or late get the membership list and
if you have not registered you will be between a rock and a hard place. I dont see them taking the membership list
in place of their own registration

Bruce

[George Hostler]

So now AMA issues a confusing advisory saying that all AMA members should register with FAA and then in the next sentence says that all RC modelers should register. So, which is it?

That is a good question, Scott. I know that AMA filed a legal petition with the US Court of Appeals last August, requesting a review and calling on the FAA actions contrary to law passed by Congress. Perhaps wheels turn slow enough in government that their legal team advised modeler compliance?

My 2 cents worth, if you are an AMA member your stuck. The FAA will sooner or late get the membership list and if you have not registered you will be between a rock and a hard place. I dont see them taking the membership list in place of their own registration. Bruce

Bruce, I see a greater caveat. Just because an RC'er doesn't register doesn't mean they will be hammered. Key is whether they are flying. An FAA inspector drops by the local municipal airport to do his/her rounds. They decide also to drop by the nearby local modeling field. They watch a flier take off, land the plane, asks to see their FAA number. Aircraft is not identified, he has no proof of the number on him. There's where the problem lies.

I registered, because I fly RC, too. I posted my opinion since the door is still open for comments. Here is the link for those who want to comment:
http://www.regulations.gov/;#!docketDetail;D=FAA-2015-7396

[okcub2015]

George i think you summed it up correctly, I too registered as its not worth
the risk.

Bruce

[john e. holliday]

The AMA has all our current info and if they are willing to bow down to the fat arses at FAA, just send them all the AMA records and be done with it.  Used to have some respect for AMA officials, but not any more.  I will fly my Control Line planes and park when I want and in a designated area.

[George Hostler]

George i think you summed it up correctly, I too registered as its not worth the risk. Bruce

Thanks, Bruce, this is true. Actually FAA kept the process as simple as possible. I printed out the E-mailed card and trimmed it, will get it laminated and stick it in my wallet. To comply both with AMA and FAA, To keep things simple, I'm making labels with my Brother label maker to include my name and address (to comply with AMA) and my FAA number (to comply with FAA). Stick is somewhere inconspicuous (like the bottom of the fuselage).

Stick the labels on my CL aircraft as well. Labels stick good, but can be peeled off also if need be. Now go and fly. 

[George Hostler]

The AMA has all our current info and if they are willing to bow down to the fat arses at FAA, just send them all the AMA records and be done with it.  Used to have some respect for AMA officials, but not any more.  I will fly my Control Line planes and park when I want and in a designated area.

John, regarding AMA giving FAA access to member database, that will have to be codified in the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). I don't foresee that happening right away. FAA in their interim final ruling:

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/12/16/2015-31750/registration-and-marking-requirements-for-small-unmanned-aircraft
(Paper print version: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2015-12-16/pdf/2015-31750.pdf) stated,

VII. Discussion of the Interim Final Rule, H. Registration Marking, IFR Requirement: Information that may be used to identify an aircraft.
Regarding the comment seeking to display an AMA number in particular, the Civil Aircraft Registry and the registration system implemented in this IFR are premised on the ability to uniquely identify and owner and their aircraft. The FAA does not govern the membership structures of section 336 organizations and cannot be assured of the uniqueness of those organizations' identification systems. Therefore, the FAA has no assurance that such a member number will provide the requisite unique identifier. Thus, the FAA will maintain an FAA-issued registration number for the marking scheme for small unmanned aircraft used as model aircraft.

FAA may politely discuss, but that doesn't mean they will do it.

[BillP]

For what its worth...I just spoke with an FAA guy named "Andrey" who answered the FAA 877-396-4636 line for questions about registration. I asked if CL had to register and he asked if a control line airplane was one with wires to a handle?. I replied yes.  Anyway, he said CL does not have to register and only rc and drones have to. I didn't ask about free flight, tethered whatevers or anything else. So this at least verbally confirms what the AMA has been saying. Sure would be nice to see it in writing from the FAA because their pictures of what doesn't have to register are basically very small drones.

bp

[George Hostler]

Well, today I went back to that site and saw a slightly different screen, downloaded the document. It is an economic analysis for registration costs done by FAA's financial comptrollers, has nothing to do with what gets registered. Don't know what happened, because I could not find a closing date. The other document comment period closed 1/15/2016. What I commented on has no relevance to this document, so, my apologies for giving out erroneous info.

[Fredvon4]

This is all still very young and early in the process.

 I would assume, some day, that the DoT/FAA might carve out some exceptions and most likely PURE control line will be written in as an exception, and eventually some Free flight with R/C support will be NON exempt

For now we are getting too much rumor and I have seen ZERO change to the WRITTEN rules/Public LAW

Like many citizens my biggest frustration with all the Law maker rules- to try and prevent something- they impose crap on ONLY the law abiding citizen

If we can't change that for Gun Control or simple drivers license there is no way to ever reverse this new rule

The good news is the FAA (even if not ever going to meet the stated goal) has a virtually painless and low cost process

I complied because I do NOT fear the DoT/FAA weenies...but I DO fear the local Park rangers and LEOs who never seem to read, get trained, and grasp some common sense attributes of things

Again...fellow model airplane friends...pleas read ALL the other FAQs especially those to Law Enforcement....then think about your local deputy sheriff, park ranger, or town cop.... mostly brain dead

Yea Yea Yea..I know there are good police...but too many duds exist and THEY are always the ones dispatched to deal with me...the stories are countless

At least out here in rural central Texas...If I get questioned...the duddly doo right is not trained or educated enough to NOT know my paper FAA Certificate is NOT cart blanch to fly where ever and how ever I desire .....What a bunch of Maroons....grin

Think I will head over to the Lampasas Municipal airport ( I helped pay for) and fly a 1/2a ringmaster for a bit until the sheriff deputy comes to stop me... I will politely show him my OFFICIAL FAA registration for me and my model and tell him how I tried to contact the NON manned tower as per the directive--- having no one say NO--- I proceeded to conduct flight training and some touch and goes

The more I think on that, the more inclined I am to do it...I am a C/L flier of one in the entire 17,890 population of my county

[George Hostler]

This is all still very young and early in the process. I would assume, some day, that the DoT/FAA might carve out some exceptions and most likely PURE control line will be written in as an exception, and eventually some Free flight with R/C support will be NON exempt. For now we are getting too much rumor and I have seen ZERO change to the WRITTEN rules/Public LAW. Like many citizens my biggest frustration with all the Law maker rules- to try and prevent something- they impose crap on ONLY the law abiding citizen. If we can't change that for Gun Control or simple drivers license there is no way to ever reverse this new rule.

Law enforcement is just that. There is the letter of the law. If the law doesn't state then the so called exception does not apply. I have even seen changes in non-government accreditation and building trade organizations, where the norm has changed to permitting ambiguity in language. Code ought to be forthright, leaving no doubts. "Do. Or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

The good news is the FAA (even if not ever going to meet the stated goal) has a virtually painless and low cost process. I complied because I do NOT fear the DoT/FAA weenies...but I DO fear the local Park rangers and LEOs who never seem to read, get trained, and grasp some common sense attributes of things. Again...fellow model airplane friends...pleas read ALL the other FAQs especially those to Law Enforcement....then think about your local deputy sheriff, park ranger, or town cop.... mostly brain dead. Yea Yea Yea..I know there are good police...but too many duds exist and THEY are always the ones dispatched to deal with me...the stories are countless.

Beyond the scope of this discussion, we get what we pay for. the LEO's are perhaps some of the lowest paid professionals, second next is teachers. The 2 cornerstones of society, law enforcement and education have all taken a back door to entertainment and spectator sports.

At least out here in rural central Texas...If I get questioned...the duddly doo right is not trained or educated enough to NOT know my paper FAA Certificate is NOT cart blanch to fly where ever and how ever I desire .....What a bunch of Maroons....grin Think I will head over to the Lampasas Municipal airport ( I helped pay for) and fly a 1/2a ringmaster for a bit until the sheriff deputy comes to stop me... I will politely show him my OFFICIAL FAA registration for me and my model and tell him how I tried to contact the NON manned tower as per the directive--- having no one say NO--- I proceeded to conduct flight training and some touch and goes. The more I think on that, the more inclined I am to do it...I am a C/L flier of one in the entire 17,890 population of my county.

Out in rural areas, there isn't the urgency. I've stopped and talked to LEO's on stops with my motorcycle at rural convenience stores, chewed the fat. They're people like all else. I doubt seriously anyone will say anything.

It is why I enjoy a certain amount of rural living. We aren't under as strict a rule as within large cities. People don't seem to get bent out of shape doing activities like CL and RC flying.

[George Hostler]

Latest from AMA.

Member Communications
Monday, January 25, 2016

Dear Members,

Last month the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced that it would require owners of model aircraft to register with the agency by February 19. AMA participated in the task force designed to provide recommendations to the FAA on the registration of small recreational unmanned aircraft, and we urged the FAA to exempt AMA members from registration. AMA also recommended the FAA consider several factors, not just weight, when determining which model aircraft would need to be registered.

Instead of exempting our community, the FAA created an unnecessary burden for our more than 188,000 members who have been flying safely for decades. As you know, AMA members already abide by a voluntary registration system that fulfills the safety and accountability objectives of the federal registration system. We made this point very clear to the FAA and other task force members.

We are exploring all options to alleviate this burden on our members and we are actively engaged in talks with the FAA.  For now, the requirement is federal regulation and therefore we must advise all of our members to comply by the February 19 deadline. 

We have an existing petition with the US Court of Appeals regarding FAA's 2014 interpretation of the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft" and we will continue our advocacy work in Washington D.C.  Recently, our leadership brought representatives from the FAA to one of our flying fields to witness AMA's safety protocols, observe club camaraderie and mentoring, and speak with AMA members firsthand about their concerns. In addition, this week AMA staff and the Executive Council will arrive at Capitol Hill to speak to members of Congress and their staffs about the importance of protecting model aviation for future generations.

We will continue to work on behalf of our members, but since a solution to the registration requirement is unlikely by February 19, members should register at www.faa.gov/uas/registration . Once registered pilots will receive a Federal registration number that is to be placed on or within aircraft over 250 grams (0.55 lbs.).  Members are encouraged to continue placing their AMA numbers on their aircraft as well.  Members only have to register once, they do not have to register each unique aircraft.  The FAA requires registration regardless if you fly a multirotor, helicopter, fixed wing, or any other type of radio control model aircraft that uses a ground control system with a communication link, such as a transmitter.  You can read more in our Frequently Asked Questions at www.modelaircraft.org/gov.

Thank you for your continued support. Together, we can ensure the future of our hobby.

© 2016 Academy of Model Aeronautics.
5161 E. Memorial Dr., Muncie IN 47302
Tel.: (800) 435-9262; Fax.: (765) 289-4248
All rights reserved.
www.modelaircraft.org

[Dick Pacini]

As I read that, it seems to exempt C/L models.  Not sure if the wording includes C/L models with R/C controls of any kind.