Future of Control Line

[john e. holliday]

The following pictures are what to me will keep control line going.  Bad on my part for writing down names.  I think this was Son, Father an Grandfather.  The young lad did great.  These were taken at past weekend TOPClass stunt meet.

By the way the young lad put up the first official flight.

[Scott Richlen]

Congratulations to whoever was working with that young fellow!

[Gary Dowler]

Last year a flying mentor arranged a small scale flying clinic at the air show at Paine Field in Everett. He exposed quite a number of people, especially kids, to CL flying.
I plan to take a page from this playbook and approach the organizers of the local air show at Felts Field here in Spokane. Every year at this time they have an open house and air show. Thousands show up. I want to put together an area to fly and show the crowd what CL aviation is. I can even have kids get a chance to try it with my 1/2A wizard (me actually in control of course).  Perhaps we could arrange to really wow them and get Mr Walker to do a stunt demo!
It could be a great opportunity, as long as it doesn't conflict with Roseburg next year.

Gary

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Congratulations to whoever was working with that young fellow!

And to ALL involved in mentoring!

When I was a kid, the sound of an aircraft overhead had most young eyes scanning the sky.  Today, it's most often considered just "noise".  Change is certain … young people today have infinitely more distractions and activities to engage in.  And it's a waste of time to condemn that.

But one thing hasn't changed: what young people want most from their parents and elders is TIME.  ATTENTION.  Those who spend time and share their passions with young people are most likely to plant a seed that grows.

Dennis

[Skip Chernoff]

Doc,I wish I shared your optimism. There are so few kids being "taught" control line presently that I'm certain that when all of us old farts are gone control line will be gone as well. I hate to say that,but kids these days are into their tech toys,not building model airplanes. You and I and the rest of the mugs here grew up in different times....Sorry, PhillySkip

[Mike Griffin]

We have had quite a few young people, anywhere from 12 to 20 years old come to the field to watch.  We let them fly our planes and in some cases even gave them a plane.  Non of them stuck.  We had Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts (or whatever they call them now) come out and we went to them.  Didn't stick.    They came out a couple of times, said that was cool, and never came back.  The average age of our club is probably about 70.  This topic has been discussed over and over and hope springs eternal but longevity sucks.   I am afraid Skip is right.  In about 10 to 20 years, CL is going to take a lethal blow, If it even takes that long.
Ride that mule till it dies.

Mike

[Dwayne]

We have had quite a few young people, anywhere from 12 to 20 years old come to the field to watch.  We let them fly our planes and in some cases even gave them a plane.  Non of them stuck.  We had Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts (or whatever they call them now) come out and we went to them.  Didn't stick.    They came out a couple of times, said that was cool, and never came back.  The average age of our club is probably about 70.  This topic has been discussed over and over and hope springs eternal but longevity sucks.   I am afraid Skip is right.  In about 10 to 20 years, CL is going to take a lethal blow, If it even takes that long.
Ride that mule till it dies.

Mike

Our RC club holds an auction every year and it always draws a huge crowd, this year I sat in the back and about half way through it dawned on me, about 50% of the people sitting in front of me won't be here in about 7 to 10 years, it's a very real possibility that one of the most active and vibrant clubs in Canada that started in 1952 will cease to exist. It's not just control line I'm afraid, it's the whole hobby. 

[Scott Richlen]

Why would you expect otherwise?  We live in a culture of people looking for their "nannies".  But there are still some glimmerings of the culture of the 50's, the do-it-your-selfers.  That is the Maker movement.  There really aren't too many of them and the culture of "buy it cheap from China" is doing its best to infiltrate it.  Maybe forge a relationship with them on the basis of building.

In every school in America there are kids interested in building model airplanes.  But the only way that they will be able to do that is if someone like us reaches out and teaches them to build.

[bob whitney]

at age 7 I had never seen a real airplane of any kind But saw my first U/C plane flying and was Hooked for Life after moving to Florida and the big city, I found a Hobby Shop (remember them).I talked my dad into helping me build my 1st 1/2 A .other than a 10year lay off to race some motorcycles it has been my full consuming Passion
 my son went to at least 4 nationals with me doing well with Dads airplanes but never built one himself and found his passion in Hockey. now I have a hard time getting him to come to the field to launch for me

like most here I am getting to that time when I need to slow down ,But then what would I do with all my stuff

[Mike Griffin]

Bob Hunt , I think you pretty well nailed it with your response and it was very well stated.

Mike

[john e. holliday]

Yes Bob has it nailed.   By the way that is a Father -Son flying at the field and grandpa was also flying.  I was lucky in that my son stayed with me when we were flying and competing.  He loved to fly and racing is what he enjoyed most.

[Ken Culbertson]

I’ve been wanting to write my feelings on this subject for a long time,

Point is, our sport is aging out. We can either wring our hands and stress out over that fact, or we can resolve to enjoy the remaining years of flying “our way.” 

Bob Hunt               

Sometimes accepting reality is difficult but I agree with Bob.  As I look back it was my Uncle who flew B-24's and B-26's and my Father who flew TBF's in the Navy and step father who was the maintenance officer for the P-38 squadrons that shot down Yamamoto.  I grew up surrounded by aviation and aviation stories.  There were maybe 3 or 4 kids on our street that flew planes.  On any calm afternoon you could hear one or 2 Baby Bee's running somewhere and we would all grab ours and run out and chase the sound.  I was 11. 

None of that exists today.  My brother was a chief test pilot in the Navy and is a "top drawer" civilian test pilot still.  Do any of his 4 kids have anything to do with airplanes - no.  I have my planes hanging on the wall in my office.  My grandson asked my daughter if he cold buy one at the toy store.  When she said that "grandpa" made it he said "wow, you can make them" but never once asked "Mom, can I make one?"

Let's face it, it all dies when the next generation reaches our age.  I am 71 and there are still enough good fliers under 60 to keep it going for a while, but when they are gone the sport dies with them and the AMA can rename itself to the "American Independent Drone Society"

Aside from nothing, we could perhaps relax the BOM rule to let the hundreds of planes that get orphaned as we age fly again and there is my favorite, adding an "Old Fart" PAMPA class.

Thanks Bob for giving the elephant in the room a face.

Ken

[Dan Berry]

Several years ago Larry Kruse sent  me copy of a letter. I do not have the letter any more.
I am going to paraphrase from memory and include some thoughts of my own. The letter was a response to a guy who lamented that R/C Modeler magazine went belly-up because the publisher died. The letter writer explained that the magazine died because there wasn't a market for it, not because the publisher died.

We live in a disposable world. Nobody repairs televisions. The are no shoe repair shops. When something breaks, it gets replaced.
The US has no manufacturing base any more that is reality.

We grew up making things. Popular Mechanics and Mechanix Illustrated would have an article on how to make an arc welder and the next month would have an article on making a recumbent bicycle using that welder. One of the magazines is gone and the other is just a product review for new cars and high-tech weapons.


We went to a ballfield and had 7 guys and tried to find a way to play a baseball game. Now, the field is empty until practice or a game. A practice for said team will have more cars in the lot than kids on the field. If it isn't an organized activity the parents aren't gonna let the kids do it. The parents don't have a problem putting a kid on a travelling team and spending weekend after weekend at out-of-town tournaments. Kids don't paly on their own, partly because parents are scared witless that the kid will be abducted and sold into slavery.


We have 12 and 14 yr old kids who have never used an Exacto knife or razor blade. The parents are scared the kids will cut their arm off with it. Let'em use model airplane glue? Holy crap! The kid will be a glue-sniffing junkie! We can't risk that!


Parents lament that they cannot get a plumber or electrician to their house to fix things that we all do as a matter of course. Because we read Popular Mechanics and Mechanix Illustrated and we did things with our hands. These same parents will send their kids to a therapist if the kid says he wants to avoid college and be an electrician or a plumber. Holy moly! " My kid is too smart to be a lowly workingman! He needs help!" .


The only chance there is of getting a youngster to spend ANY appreciable time with our toy airplanes is to involve the parent.


I truly wish that I had not lost the letter. The guy really nailed the issue.
Yes, I have contacted Larry and he does not have it any more.

[Jason Cunningham]

One of the best pilots in Dist 8 Don Cranfill has time to share the joy of CL flying with a girl spectator at the May John Gunn Stunt Contest in ElDorado, AR..

[Jim Carter]

Hi guys!  I know I probably should stay out of this but I truly understand and can accept all of the thoughts as written.  Years ago, while on active duty, I had a ball teaching my son and daughter, wife too, how to fly control line.  None of them seemed to embrace the idea of building or repairing though.  Now, fully grown both, my son (an executive with Calvin Kline and my daughter and son in law (missionaries) have reminisced with me about those days with love and laughter; they have even gone out (once) to enjoy the experience once more.  Both have said they will have me show the grand kids one day when they're old enough.  But they all live so far away.  A few year ago my buddies and I had the opportunity of teaching three young guys (one in middle school and two in high school).  Believe me they had a ball and they learned so fast.  Unfortunately, they all grew up.  One is now in the USN, one family moved somewhere in N.C. and the third is away in college.  As mentioned, by Dan, we just don't see any kids coming out to play in the evenings and on Saturday mornings at the sport and recreation fields where we fly, anymore .... not like when we were kids!  It's so sad but then again, I have no idea of what "coding" is and just barely understand how to setup an iPhone, iPad or computer but they sure can, generally speaking!

[Dave_Trible]

Ty I’m trying to look at the glass half full too.  In the last few years we’ve seen encouraging numbers in Beginner and Intermediate at the Nats.  We’ve  gone back and purchased the full 1-2-3 slate of Junior and Senior trophies this year thinking some of these kids are coming back this year.  Hope springs eternal. 

Dave

[Tom Luciano]

I too, agree, Bob is spot on with his remarks. I will reiterate with my own experience.

 I'm one of the younger members here at age 53. I am  a second generation modeler. I had coached a travel baseball team up to age 12. In our final season I brought a few of the boys out and let them fly my twister. They had a bunch of fun flying and all flew level laps without my hand on the handle.(great right?) I then figured let me put up a pattern. By the time my level laps were done, they were skipping stones in puddles 50 yards away! I had one more option, called to my son "get the Voodoo out of the truck" . We hooked it up, fire it up, and let it loose. That peak their interest . They loved the speed, maneuvers and noise. Since then, not one parent called to ask, "can little Johnny go flying with you again."

 Stunt is Ballroom dancing in the sky, not many kid wants to do that! At least not at first. Most who flew stunt as a junior were exposed to it for a while. I got interested in Stunt at age 48!

 I can't get my own sons ages 21&14 interested. There is still hope on the 14 year old. His teammates are who I speak of. Think back, when we were young, where did we gravitate? At a meet like Union, who had stunt, carrier, scale, balloon burst, and combat going on at the same time. All the boys were at the combat circles 2 fast, 1 slow. Second was balloon burst. Even at Hazelton last year. The most exciting event of the day, where all the pilots sat and watched was..... Balloon Burst.
   I think, if I could get my younger son to a combat meet or even a vintage combat fly in, I would Hook'em.
 I think Stunt events with Fun fly events (that are exciting) going on simultaneously is a possible draw. There is the other issue, we have been stuck so far removed from everyone because of noise complaints that, we lack drive by exposure.

Best,
Tom

[john e. holliday]

Yes combat and balloon were the spectator shows.   The people like a plane all kinds of maneuvers, especially when I do a wing over right at them.   They just know the plane is going to hit them.  I am one of those that took to flying stunt as it was hard flying racing planes from a stooge.

[Peter Germann]

In Switzerland, the number of aeromodellers has been increasing for many years. Most of our flyers use attractive ARF or RTF R/C models and operate them for their own pleasure, without ambitions to participate in competitions. This positive development was made possible by the commercial commitment of the industry and the wide range of products and services offered.  The industry drives this development and a large mail order company from Asia alone now offers more than 100 different R/C aircraft at a price range of 50 - 210 USD. All are ready to fly and do not require any construction work.

There is no comparable offer for C/L models and so a potential beginner is faced with considerable problems. Often he does not have a suitable workshop and he lacks the basic knowledge and tools to build a model aircraft.  Furthermore, the fact that he finds neither suitable accessories nor C/L related support from his local dealer is often sufficient to prevent an entry into the flying of control line models. But it is exactly this flying which is the real fascination of our sport and which forms the basis for an often lifelong passion. It is more the rule than the exception that in c/l one's own innovative power almost automatically leads to the construction of one's own aircraft.

I assume that the availability of a really suitable, ready to fly c/l aircraft would promote the entry of interested individuals of all age groups. An attractive and very good flying electric c/l model, together with the necessary accessories and offered ready to fly, would be useful for our common cause.

rgds, Peter

[Scott Richlen]

I think about this very differently:
1) The value and interest for a substantial number of participants is (was?) the building activity
2) For them, flying what you built is much more interesting than flying what someone else built
3) Our recent culture has gravitated to passivity and the "nanny-state" and many of us have allowed that to influence us (a lot!!)
4) There are still people who have an interest in model airplane building (just as there are a lot of people who participate in the "making" activities)
5) We (or at least those of us who recognize the value of the building activity) just have to develop better ways of reaching out to find them (the ones with a building interest)
6) Just because we haven't found a slam-bang way of doing this doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  It just means that we haven't found it yet
7) Surrendering to the current culture is the easy way out and is not healthy for the nation.  We are loosing a critical part of our culture and who we are as Americans
AMA leadership is "leading" at 180 degrees opposite to what is needed.  Almost every decision they make is the wrong one and they are consistently selecting pathways that are destructive to the hobby
9) Greater availability of ARFs may result in a couple more flyers, but they are here for the light entertainment and, for the most part, are simply passing through.  Unless a way is found to channel them into building activities, the use of ARFs is non-productive
10) As I have found, there are at least a few kids at the Junior High level who are interested in building model airplanes.  We need to come up with better ways of identifying and connecting with them

[M Spencer]

Check This Out , https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/real-flash/ . Peter .

Those Elec Rc warbird 1/12th scale foamies'dve made good .049 control liners.
better wing loading than the plastic RTFs , maybe .

15 or 20 ft lines you could likely have a remote battery pack , to melt the lines rather than bury the aircraft .

Our First flying experiments only succeded after we'd cut the lines to suit a vacant lot , with a 049 profile .
Those string lines are hideous , but if theyre under 20 ft , youve got a chance .

Lines like string graffite HT leads . ?  battery pack on belt , so you get 1 hour duration .
Taught half the club to fly in one aftewrnoon with a Mills .75 Gnat ( sortofa Phantom Mite . Modelair N Z )
With a 100 cc squeeze bottle strapped on the side . The first 1/4 tank was precarious ,
nose up & narrow control margin . Fair ripped along in comparison on the last 1/4 .

Think Itd do 45 or 50 minutes on one fueling .

Analogy of the weights relevant .

[Ken Culbertson]

I think about this very differently:
1) The value and interest for a substantial number of participants is (was?) the building activity
2) For them, flying what you built is much more interesting than flying what someone else built
3) Our recent culture has gravitated to passivity and the "nanny-state" and many of us have allowed that to influence us (a lot!!)
4) There are still people who have an interest in model airplane building (just as there are a lot of people who participate in the "making" activities)
5) We (or at least those of us who recognize the value of the building activity) just have to develop better ways of reaching out to find them (the ones with a building interest)
6) Just because we haven't found a slam-bang way of doing this doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  It just means that we haven't found it yet
7) Surrendering to the current culture is the easy way out and is not healthy for the nation.  We are loosing a critical part of our culture and who we are as Americans
AMA leadership is "leading" at 180 degrees opposite to what is needed.  Almost every decision they make is the wrong one and they are consistently selecting pathways that are destructive to the hobby
9) Greater availability of ARFs may result in a couple more flyers, but they are here for the light entertainment and, for the most part, are simply passing through.  Unless a way is found to channel them into building activities, the use of ARFs is non-productive
10) As I have found, there are at least a few kids at the Junior High level who are interested in building model airplanes.  We need to come up with better ways of identifying and connecting with them

I think you may be on to something here, at least I hope you are.  When I think back to my first models (I think I was 6) it was my Dad building one of those old 5 cent Comet rubber band kits that got me started.  Before long I would find myself stopping at the Drug store (small town, they carried everything) every day after school to see if any new kits had come out.  They were little and almost never flew but I would build them anyway.

That is what is missing - the building.  My grandson thinks it is boring to watch us fly and he is right, it is boring to watch but it is a blast to fly.  Got to get them into building first.  Don't know how.

Ken

[Jim Roselle]

Kids are interested in the current cutting edge technology of the day. Today’s kids are no more interested in propeller driven aircraft than we were in the telegraph or the pony express.

[Scott Richlen]

ken:

Maybe try a building session using Mountain Lion kits.  It is not CL, but FF and it builds fast and easy and flies really well.  Host a building session for your grandson and a bunch of his buddies and follow up at a local park or school ground with a competitive fly-off.  I notice that the kids like to build in groups, not by themselves.  They also really like mass-launches where everyone launches their plane at the same time.

The Mountain Lion is available from lasercutplanes for a very low price.  The kids should be able to build it in an hour.

I do not teach CL building for a host of reasons (one of which is how long it takes to build one.)  But the short time span for building the Mountain Lion fits in with their attention span.  Just remember that one of your (unstated) goals is to stretch that attention span which has been conditioned by our current culture to be very short.   If you can get them to stretch that attention span and find value in investing time in building, then a CL plane might make sense to them.

Good luck!

[john e. holliday]

I know the thought just hit me.  Instead of kids how about younger adults that maybe need a past time to relax(building & flying)and forget the daily rat race of making a living.   I have planes for the use of flying and besides look at the time we could spend at the field solving problems.

[Ken Culbertson]

I know the thought just hit me.  Instead of kids how about younger adults that maybe need a past time to relax(building & flying)and forget the daily rat race of making a living.   I have planes for the use of flying and besides look at the time we could spend at the field solving problems.

On the TV Show "Madam Secretary" the White House Chief of Staff was having a hard time relaxing and it was suggested that he make model airplanes - he did!  Over the top liberal propaganda show but well acted and fun to watch.

[Jim Carter]

On the TV Show "Madam Secretary" the White House Chief of Staff was having a hard time relaxing and it was suggested that he make model airplanes - he did!  Over the top liberal propaganda show but well acted and fun to watch.

Yep!  Saw it .... good show!  Bet his stress level drops like crazy!! 

[GERALD WIMMER]

Hello
I have two boys aged 9 and 11 and have tried brainwashing them from birth on into believing control line models planes are the best hobby and sport on the planet . Surprisingly it seems to be working as they grow older and they see what their peers do, like look at screens and play sport the teachers and parents force them into.
Sport in New Zealand is Rugby (and religion some would say) and that puts a lot of kids off sport altogether as most kids don't mind the mud but hate the injuries and bullying that goes on.
Making aviation part of my sons lives is fun as it means trips to airshows and aviation museums and some neat movies/tv shows that boys like e.g Thunderbirds, The Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, and Disney's Planes movie and they enjoyed some of my old favorites classic movies like Torra Torra Torra and Battle of Britain and Midway. Pitty there are no longer the classic hobby shops around anymore we can visit easily as I enjoyed as a young person but a least I can show them pictures in my old model magazines of places like AHC and we can still look on the internet at some neat online shops together!
 Both boys now admit to enjoying our routine of flying most weekends but this is largely due to my wife Alina who encourages them to build and fly and learn.
A supportive wife that enjoys time behind the handle is a great asset and she has built many a model and helped run contests and keep 'Team Wimmer' as we are often referred to running and performing at events.
We are not the only family here in New Zealand that flies together and it is great when we meet up with other similar families at our Nats or competitions and it makes us all seem normal for a change with our fellow Aeromodelling peers and the future seems more positive for control line and model flying in general ! 

Regards Gerald

[Ken Culbertson]

Hello
I have two boys aged 9 and 11 and have tried brainwashing them from birth on into believing control line models planes are the best hobby and sport on the planet . Surprisingly it seems to be working as they grow older and they see what their peers do, like look at screens and play sport the teachers and parents force them into.
Sport in New Zealand is Rugby (and religion some would say) and that puts a lot of kids off sport altogether as most kids don't mind the mud but hate the injuries and bullying that goes on.
Making aviation part of my sons lives is fun as it means trips to airshows and aviation museums and some neat movies/tv shows that boys like e.g Thunderbirds, The Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, and Disney's Planes movie and they enjoyed some of my old favorites classic movies like Torra Torra Torra and Battle of Britain and Midway. Pitty there are no longer the classic hobby shops around anymore we can visit easily as I enjoyed as a young person but a least I can show them pictures in my old model magazines of places like AHC and we can still look on the internet at some neat online shops together!
 Both boys now admit to enjoying our routine of flying most weekends but this is largely due to my wife Alina who encourages them to build and fly and learn.
A supportive wife that enjoys time behind the handle is a great asset and she has built many a model and helped run contests and keep 'Team Wimmer' as we are often referred to running and performing at events.
We are not the only family here in New Zealand that flies together and it is great when we meet up with other similar families at our Nats or competitions and it makes us all seem normal for a change with our fellow Aeromodelling peers and the future seems more positive for control line and model flying in general ! 

Regards Gerald

You are a lucky man.

Ken

[john e. holliday]

Yes he is.

[Jim Kraft]

I think what has hurt control line the most is exposer. We back in my younger years we flew in city parks, ball diamonds, foot ball fields and vacant lots. Before the noise police. People came out to watch. Some got interested. My folks and my two brothers had no interest at all. I on the other hand was an addict. I stated early building stick and tissue models at about age 6, I made planes out of orange crate parts and tied a string to them and swung them around and made my own engine noise.

Built my first Hollow Log Scientific model witih an OK Cub .049 when I was ten. Built a few of those until I got interested in motorcycles, cars, and of course those whose clay is shaped different than ours.

After I got married I started flying contol line again. Built a few Fox 35 powered planes that I flew a lot. But the guys I flew with all went to R/C. So I did too. I flew R/C pattern for 24 years. Then I got the bug to fly control line again. Things have changed. The fields I use to fly in 25 years ago are no longer in existance. The R/C club put in a control line circle for me as I was the only one at the time that flew it. But I have to drive 58 miles round trip to fly there.

 Now at 77 years old, I have physical problems that I doubt I will ever overcome. I ruined my back making a living. I was able to live with the pain and numbness in my left leg for a long time, but now I lose concentration on flying after a few minutes.

I still love it and do repair old Spark Ignition engines of which I also have a pretty good collection which i run in the back yard. No close neigbors back there.

But as said above, we just do not get the exposure. Most now days have never heard of contol line. Almost everyone has heard of R/C.

Control line died when the younger generation did not take up the hobby 30 to 40 years ago. If they had, even if they dropped out, there is always the good chance they would take it up again when they got older like so many of us did.

These are just my own thoughts. Maybe true and maybe not. I taught all my kids to fly on a Cox trainer, but none of them took to it. I beleive it does no good to try to interest someone in something they have no interest in. We are all different in our makeup.

Back when we were kids, those that took an interest would let nothng stop us. We were hooked. But others could care less. I think it's in our genes. But with exposure those out there that don't know it, are already hooked, they just don'know it. I think that makes sense. We have millions of fish, but only a few are catchable. But if we do not fish they will not be caught.

[Ken Culbertson]

I think what has hurt control line the most is exposer. We back in my younger years we flew in city parks, ball diamonds, foot ball fields and vacant lots. Before the noise police. People came out to watch. Some got interested. My folks and my two brothers had no interest at all. I on the other hand was an addict. I stated early building stick and tissue models at about age 6, I made planes out of orange crate parts and tied a string to them and swung them around and made my own engine noise.

Built my first Hollow Log Scientific model witih an OK Cub .049 when I was ten. Built a few of those until I got interested in motorcycles, cars, and of course those whose clay is shaped different than ours.

After I got married I started flying contol line again. Built a few Fox 35 powered planes that I flew a lot. But the guys I flew with all went to R/C. So I did too. I flew R/C pattern for 24 years. Then I got the bug to fly control line again. Things have changed. The fields I use to fly in 25 years ago are no longer in existance. The R/C club put in a control line circle for me as I was the only one at the time that flew it. But I have to drive 58 miles round trip to fly there.

 Now at 77 years old, I have physical problems that I doubt I will ever overcome. I ruined my back making a living. I was able to live with the pain and numbness in my left leg for a long time, but now I lose concentration on flying after a few minutes.

I still love it and do repair old Spark Ignition engines of which I also have a pretty good collection which i run in the back yard. No close neigbors back there.

But as said above, we just do not get the exposure. Most now days have never heard of contol line. Almost everyone has heard of R/C.

Control line died when the younger generation did not take up the hobby 30 to 40 years ago. If they had, even if they dropped out, there is always the good chance they would take it up again when they got older like so many of us did.

These are just my own thoughts. Maybe true and maybe not. I taught all my kids to fly on a Cox trainer, but none of them took to it. I beleive it does no good to try to interest someone in something they have no interest in. We are all different in our makeup.

Back when we were kids, those that took an interest would let nothng stop us. We were hooked. But others could care less. I think it's in our genes. But with exposure those out there that don't know it, are already hooked, they just don'know it. I think that makes sense. We have millions of fish, but only a few are catchable. But if we do not fish they will not be caught.

Excellent observation!

[Avaiojet]

This organization has grown rapidly.

They have experienced nothing but growth over the years.

[john e. holliday]

But how many youngsters?

[Alexey Gorbunov]

https://www.gofundme.com/5o36acg

You have not blown the future right now?

[Dwayne]

This organization has grown rapidly.

They have experienced nothing but growth over the years.

Yes, this is one segment of our hobby that is very healthy at the moment, we have a few Hucksters at our field, great fun watching these big planes go through their paces, and I'm quite surprised at how affordable a used plane ready to fly is, less than a new Yatsenko

[Steve Thompson]

Good point Alexey!

Above "go fund me" is to help finance sending Samantha Hines to France to compete in World Cup competition.

[Avaiojet]

Yes, this is one segment of our hobby that is very healthy at the moment, we have a few Hucksters at our field, great fun watching these big planes go through their paces, and I'm quite surprised at how affordable a used plane ready to fly is, less than a new Yatsenko

I had them up to 90".

[Dan McEntee]

I know the thought just hit me.  Instead of kids how about younger adults that maybe need a past time to relax(building & flying)and forget the daily rat race of making a living.   I have planes for the use of flying and besides look at the time we could spend at the field solving problems.

   This has been my thought for a long time. Don't focus on the kids, focus on their 20 to 30 something parrents, because they have the bank account and the minivan. If you get the Dad or the Mom interested, the kids are likely to think it's cool and come along, like father like son so to speak. This age group, like John says, may be looking for something different.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Peter Germann]

Control line died when the younger generation did not take up the hobby 30 to 40 years ago.

Check this for an "epitaph"

http://www.f2cmbl.org/phocadownload/WC2018/CompetitorsList.pdf


and:

Think of retired people as potential c/l builders & flyers, too

[Robert Dible]

I think if CL is to survive it needs widespread exposure aimed at novice entry level modelers.  it would need the backing of an outfit like Hobby Lobby, which has around 600 stores and thousands of feet of shelving to fill in each store.  An attempt at introducing people to flying would need to severely restrict the range of products needed for success.  In fact, I would suggest limiting everything to a single .15 sized plain bearing engine with handful of airframes designed for progress from basic flight to profile scale and profile stunt on 52 foot lines.  This would only require limited fuel (qt.), a couple prop sizes, a tank or two etc.  You would want to use just 3 or 4 feet of space to cover everything, and it would have to be affordable to a parent.  Can a $30 engine still be produced?

[dennis lipsett]

I think if CL is to survive it needs widespread exposure aimed at novice entry level modelers.  it would need the backing of an outfit like Hobby Lobby, which has around 600 stores and thousands of feet of shelving to fill in each store.  An attempt at introducing people to flying would need to severely restrict the range of products needed for success.  In fact, I would suggest limiting everything to a single .15 sized plain bearing engine with handful of airframes designed for progress from basic flight to profile scale and profile stunt on 52 foot lines.  This would only require limited fuel (qt.), a couple prop sizes, a tank or two etc.  You would want to use just 3 or 4 feet of space to cover everything, and it would have to be affordable to a parent.  Can a $30 engine still be produced?

I'd never advise using glow engines to recruit new modelers. Flying sites are hard enough to find with the accompanying noise. Also, todays potential modeler is not willing to put up with the storage,mess and cost of fuel.
I would recommend electric power and a 25 sized model. Do whatever it takes to remove the toy image from the association with model aircraft.
Having flown glow for over 60 years I don't miss it and electric power has opened other flying sites to us simply because we are not an annoyance.

[Scott Richlen]

There is an assumption that seems wide-spread in control line that if someone is handed a handle and taught to fly they will catch "the bug" and want to join the hobby: that somehow the experience of flying will entice them into the hobby.  Our club used to sponsor flying sessions at various events for years and we put a CL handle in hundreds of kid's hands to give them the flying experience.  It just didn't work.

I think that our mistake was to think of the hobby as flying.  But the hobby is actually building and flying what you built.

I would like to propose a different thought: it is the experience of flying a plane THAT YOU BUILT that is enticing.  In fact, that is how many of us first entered the hobby: we built plastic airplanes but wanted more than to sit them on a shelf when they were done.  That is why I built my first CL model.  I then spent the rest of the summer (having no one around that knew anything about CL) trying and learning to fly it.

Consider this alternative: if you can get someone interested in building, then they will want to fly what they built.

If we incorrectly view this hobby as solely flying, we cannot understand how to promote it.

If we realize that the hobby is actually two-fold (building and then flying what we built) we may have more chance of attracting new participants.  Since "building" has all kinds of benefits to kids (including the whole STEM issue that gets so much press these days) it would be easier to sell to parents (which some of you noted as a potential avenue for CL growth.)

But it is a steep climb: our current culture is against CL for many of the same reasons that STEM is struggling.

[Ken Culbertson]

the hobby is actually building and flying what you built.

AMEN!

[dennis lipsett]

There is an assumption that seems wide-spread in control line that if someone is handed a handle and taught to fly they will catch "the bug" and want to join the hobby: that somehow the experience of flying will entice them into the hobby.  Our club used to sponsor flying sessions at various events for years and we put a CL handle in hundreds of kid's hands to give them the flying experience.  It just didn't work.

I think that our mistake was to think of the hobby as flying.  But the hobby is actually building and flying what you built.

I would like to propose a different thought: it is the experience of flying a plane THAT YOU BUILT that is enticing.  In fact, that is how many of us first entered the hobby: we built plastic airplanes but wanted more than to sit them on a shelf when they were done.  That is why I built my first CL model.  I then spent the rest of the summer (having no one around that knew anything about CL) trying and learning to fly it.

Consider this alternative: if you can get someone interested in building, then they will want to fly what they built.

If we incorrectly view this hobby as solely flying, we cannot understand how to promote it.

If we realize that the hobby is actually two-fold (building and then flying what we built) we may have more chance of attracting new participants.  Since "building" has all kinds of benefits to kids (including the whole STEM issue that gets so much press these days) it would be easier to sell to parents (which some of you noted as a potential avenue for CL growth.)

But it is a steep climb: our current culture is against CL for many of the same reasons that STEM is struggling.

Scott,
I don't disagree with you at all except that the times have changed. It was the allure of building a model and then flying it that made the hobby so appealing to me and no doubt everyone else on this forum.
But having tried to get youth interested in the hobby by building or flying has been basically pointless. They are interested if you do everything for them and hand them the handle but actually doing any of the work is almost a forgotten virtue among most of the youth that tried it.
Electric models seem to interest most of them much more than glow or gas powered models but their interest cannot be sustained very long.
Sadly I think that the only outcome for this hobby will probably be its extinction when the last of us is gone.

[mark romanowitz]

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[mark romanowitz]

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[Ken Culbertson]

One more thing.

Another way to damage the future of control line is to run people off.

I know several club members who refuse to learn the whole pattern. No interest in moving up and competing due to perceived attitudes.
I know another gentleman who got out of the hobby because he saw some guy throw his handle down and stomp around ranting at the Nats years ago.
I know of another club member who got out of RC Pattern due to "A**holes".. He also refuses to be in any contest. His participation in control line is limited at best.
I've seen people on this site rip other people on this site for the most trivial reasons.. IC vs Electric, AMA, drones, rules disputes.

I personally have been called an 'Effin Moron" for expressing an opinion regarding the AMA that apparently wasn't the agreed position of some of the more active members here.

Does that mean the people who leave the hobby or limit their participation have thin skins and need to "grow up"? 

No, it means that the people who are ripping other people need to grow up.

Right now we need to help people find reasons to continue or get back in this hobby, not go elsewhere.

Remember, these are the guys who could be buying the engine or kit you have for sale in the classifieds, or they could be customers at Sig, Brodaks, Aero Products, RSM, or Stunt Hangar Hobby.

When I got back into this hobby I bought a lot of engines and kits..  Over the past year I've sold off all of my kits and all but 5 of my engines..  If I died of a heart attack I didn't want my wife to have $5000 of hobby stuff to try to get rid of. Thankfully there were still enough people in the hobby to absorb that flood on the market. I took a loss on most of it..

But as the hobby dwindles it will be harder and harder to sell off that kit collection or engine collection.

I personally am pretty close to letting this hobby go for a second time.  Why? Time, cost and yes, attitudes.

I'm still working, and will be for some time. I'm a programmer at a hospital. I get called at all hours of the night whenever there is a system problem.. I have an art business. I play several musical instruments. I have a wife and a family. 

When I have time for model airplanes I want it to be light hearted and fun..

If it becomes work, too serious, or I have to deal with jerks, I'll go elsewhere and do other things.

Also, just my 2c..

I tend to agree with most of what you have posted but in some ways I disagree with your reaction.  It may just be the part of the country you are from.  I am from Texas and I can't name a single flier here that fits your descriptions but we have a different problem.  It is 300 miles to the nearest non club contest so we don't get out much.  It is not that we don't produce great fliers, it is just that we don't produce a lot of fliers. 

I agree that some at the top are complete snobs and really resent us of lesser accomplishment cluttering their circles and forums but they are very easy to ignore.  I know it is difficult to be called names when all you are trying to do is get answers to questions or float ideas but, so what, if you get the feedback or the answer.  Another thing that a lot of the newer "elites" seem to miss is that the sport/hobby has undergone a real change.  We have gone from 40oz planes that barely held out on the lines in overhead maneuvers on a calm day to 60oz beasts that pull your arm off overhead in a 20mph wind.  Engines that cost $35 in today's $$$ to ones that cost $600.  It was all gradual and unless you sat out the change you can't fully understand the culture shock coming back in.  Just politely ignore them, most of them mean well.

As to your main point though, the impression these people make to someone considering the sport is disastrous.    We should do all we can to discourage it but one thing we can't hide is that the road to the top is long, expensive and generally requires someone that is already up there to open up a slot by making a mistake or dropping out.  The elites totally control the sport and it is Invitation Only.  Once you recognize that a 70+ year old body will never again possess the reactions to turn 10 out of 10 5' bottoms or look up at an overcast sky while turning, you start to have fun again and being around people having fun IS what attracts others to the sport or gets them to return.

"And that is just me, and I could be wrong."

Ken

[mark romanowitz]

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[Al Rabe]

I hope nobody minds if I stick my Al's Models 4 download link on here.  It includes  190,000 words, 1640 photos and pages and 25 minutes of video.  Maybe it is too much for newcomers to the hobby but there is an awful lot about building, painting and competition, some of which should please most.  This is all free just for clicking the link.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkHUtj971Jgk_k-N5vVQX_as0dcVexiz4Al

Al