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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: john e. holliday on May 28, 2018, 06:37:41 PM
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The following pictures are what to me will keep control line going. Bad on my part for writing down names. I think this was Son, Father an Grandfather. The young lad did great. These were taken at past weekend TOPClass stunt meet. D>K
By the way the young lad put up the first official flight.
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Congratulations to whoever was working with that young fellow!
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Last year a flying mentor arranged a small scale flying clinic at the air show at Paine Field in Everett. He exposed quite a number of people, especially kids, to CL flying.
I plan to take a page from this playbook and approach the organizers of the local air show at Felts Field here in Spokane. Every year at this time they have an open house and air show. Thousands show up. I want to put together an area to fly and show the crowd what CL aviation is. I can even have kids get a chance to try it with my 1/2A wizard (me actually in control of course). Perhaps we could arrange to really wow them and get Mr Walker to do a stunt demo!
It could be a great opportunity, as long as it doesn't conflict with Roseburg next year.
Gary
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Congratulations to whoever was working with that young fellow!
And to ALL involved in mentoring!
When I was a kid, the sound of an aircraft overhead had most young eyes scanning the sky. Today, it's most often considered just "noise". Change is certain … young people today have infinitely more distractions and activities to engage in. And it's a waste of time to condemn that.
But one thing hasn't changed: what young people want most from their parents and elders is TIME. ATTENTION. Those who spend time and share their passions with young people are most likely to plant a seed that grows.
Dennis
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Doc,I wish I shared your optimism. There are so few kids being "taught" control line presently that I'm certain that when all of us old farts are gone control line will be gone as well. I hate to say that,but kids these days are into their tech toys,not building model airplanes. You and I and the rest of the mugs here grew up in different times....Sorry, PhillySkip
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We have had quite a few young people, anywhere from 12 to 20 years old come to the field to watch. We let them fly our planes and in some cases even gave them a plane. Non of them stuck. We had Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts (or whatever they call them now) come out and we went to them. Didn't stick. They came out a couple of times, said that was cool, and never came back. The average age of our club is probably about 70. This topic has been discussed over and over and hope springs eternal but longevity sucks. I am afraid Skip is right. In about 10 to 20 years, CL is going to take a lethal blow, If it even takes that long.
Ride that mule till it dies.
Mike
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We have had quite a few young people, anywhere from 12 to 20 years old come to the field to watch. We let them fly our planes and in some cases even gave them a plane. Non of them stuck. We had Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts (or whatever they call them now) come out and we went to them. Didn't stick. They came out a couple of times, said that was cool, and never came back. The average age of our club is probably about 70. This topic has been discussed over and over and hope springs eternal but longevity sucks. I am afraid Skip is right. In about 10 to 20 years, CL is going to take a lethal blow, If it even takes that long.
Ride that mule till it dies.
Mike
Our RC club holds an auction every year and it always draws a huge crowd, this year I sat in the back and about half way through it dawned on me, about 50% of the people sitting in front of me won't be here in about 7 to 10 years, it's a very real possibility that one of the most active and vibrant clubs in Canada that started in 1952 will cease to exist. It's not just control line I'm afraid, it's the whole hobby.
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Why would you expect otherwise? We live in a culture of people looking for their "nannies". But there are still some glimmerings of the culture of the 50's, the do-it-your-selfers. That is the Maker movement. There really aren't too many of them and the culture of "buy it cheap from China" is doing its best to infiltrate it. Maybe forge a relationship with them on the basis of building.
In every school in America there are kids interested in building model airplanes. But the only way that they will be able to do that is if someone like us reaches out and teaches them to build.
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at age 7 I had never seen a real airplane of any kind But saw my first U/C plane flying and was Hooked for Life after moving to Florida and the big city, I found a Hobby Shop (remember them).I talked my dad into helping me build my 1st 1/2 A .other than a 10year lay off to race some motorcycles it has been my full consuming Passion
my son went to at least 4 nationals with me doing well with Dads airplanes but never built one himself and found his passion in Hockey. now I have a hard time getting him to come to the field to launch for me
like most here I am getting to that time when I need to slow down ,But then what would I do with all my stuff
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Bob Hunt , I think you pretty well nailed it with your response and it was very well stated.
Mike
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Yes Bob has it nailed. By the way that is a Father -Son flying at the field and grandpa was also flying. I was lucky in that my son stayed with me when we were flying and competing. He loved to fly and racing is what he enjoyed most.
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I’ve been wanting to write my feelings on this subject for a long time,
Point is, our sport is aging out. We can either wring our hands and stress out over that fact, or we can resolve to enjoy the remaining years of flying “our way.”
Bob Hunt
Sometimes accepting reality is difficult but I agree with Bob. As I look back it was my Uncle who flew B-24's and B-26's and my Father who flew TBF's in the Navy and step father who was the maintenance officer for the P-38 squadrons that shot down Yamamoto. I grew up surrounded by aviation and aviation stories. There were maybe 3 or 4 kids on our street that flew planes. On any calm afternoon you could hear one or 2 Baby Bee's running somewhere and we would all grab ours and run out and chase the sound. I was 11.
None of that exists today. My brother was a chief test pilot in the Navy and is a "top drawer" civilian test pilot still. Do any of his 4 kids have anything to do with airplanes - no. I have my planes hanging on the wall in my office. My grandson asked my daughter if he cold buy one at the toy store. When she said that "grandpa" made it he said "wow, you can make them" but never once asked "Mom, can I make one?"
Let's face it, it all dies when the next generation reaches our age. I am 71 and there are still enough good fliers under 60 to keep it going for a while, but when they are gone the sport dies with them and the AMA can rename itself to the "American Independent Drone Society"
Aside from nothing, we could perhaps relax the BOM rule to let the hundreds of planes that get orphaned as we age fly again and there is my favorite, adding an "Old Fart" PAMPA class.
Thanks Bob for giving the elephant in the room a face.
Ken
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Several years ago Larry Kruse sent me copy of a letter. I do not have the letter any more.
I am going to paraphrase from memory and include some thoughts of my own. The letter was a response to a guy who lamented that R/C Modeler magazine went belly-up because the publisher died. The letter writer explained that the magazine died because there wasn't a market for it, not because the publisher died.
We live in a disposable world. Nobody repairs televisions. The are no shoe repair shops. When something breaks, it gets replaced.
The US has no manufacturing base any more that is reality.
We grew up making things. Popular Mechanics and Mechanix Illustrated would have an article on how to make an arc welder and the next month would have an article on making a recumbent bicycle using that welder. One of the magazines is gone and the other is just a product review for new cars and high-tech weapons.
We went to a ballfield and had 7 guys and tried to find a way to play a baseball game. Now, the field is empty until practice or a game. A practice for said team will have more cars in the lot than kids on the field. If it isn't an organized activity the parents aren't gonna let the kids do it. The parents don't have a problem putting a kid on a travelling team and spending weekend after weekend at out-of-town tournaments. Kids don't paly on their own, partly because parents are scared witless that the kid will be abducted and sold into slavery.
We have 12 and 14 yr old kids who have never used an Exacto knife or razor blade. The parents are scared the kids will cut their arm off with it. Let'em use model airplane glue? Holy crap! The kid will be a glue-sniffing junkie! We can't risk that!
Parents lament that they cannot get a plumber or electrician to their house to fix things that we all do as a matter of course. Because we read Popular Mechanics and Mechanix Illustrated and we did things with our hands. These same parents will send their kids to a therapist if the kid says he wants to avoid college and be an electrician or a plumber. Holy moly! " My kid is too smart to be a lowly workingman! He needs help!" .
The only chance there is of getting a youngster to spend ANY appreciable time with our toy airplanes is to involve the parent.
I truly wish that I had not lost the letter. The guy really nailed the issue.
Yes, I have contacted Larry and he does not have it any more.
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One of the best pilots in Dist 8 Don Cranfill has time to share the joy of CL flying with a girl spectator at the May John Gunn Stunt Contest in ElDorado, AR..
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Hi guys! I know I probably should stay out of this but I truly understand and can accept all of the thoughts as written. Years ago, while on active duty, I had a ball teaching my son and daughter, wife too, how to fly control line. None of them seemed to embrace the idea of building or repairing though. Now, fully grown both, my son (an executive with Calvin Kline and my daughter and son in law (missionaries) have reminisced with me about those days with love and laughter; they have even gone out (once) to enjoy the experience once more. Both have said they will have me show the grand kids one day when they're old enough. But they all live so far away. A few year ago my buddies and I had the opportunity of teaching three young guys (one in middle school and two in high school). Believe me they had a ball and they learned so fast. Unfortunately, they all grew up. One is now in the USN, one family moved somewhere in N.C. and the third is away in college. As mentioned, by Dan, we just don't see any kids coming out to play in the evenings and on Saturday mornings at the sport and recreation fields where we fly, anymore .... not like when we were kids! It's so sad but then again, I have no idea of what "coding" is and just barely understand how to setup an iPhone, iPad or computer but they sure can, generally speaking!
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Ty I’m trying to look at the glass half full too. In the last few years we’ve seen encouraging numbers in Beginner and Intermediate at the Nats. We’ve gone back and purchased the full 1-2-3 slate of Junior and Senior trophies this year thinking some of these kids are coming back this year. Hope springs eternal.
Dave
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I too, agree, Bob is spot on with his remarks. I will reiterate with my own experience.
I'm one of the younger members here at age 53. I am a second generation modeler. I had coached a travel baseball team up to age 12. In our final season I brought a few of the boys out and let them fly my twister. They had a bunch of fun flying and all flew level laps without my hand on the handle.(great right?) I then figured let me put up a pattern. By the time my level laps were done, they were skipping stones in puddles 50 yards away! I had one more option, called to my son "get the Voodoo out of the truck" . We hooked it up, fire it up, and let it loose. That peak their interest . They loved the speed, maneuvers and noise. Since then, not one parent called to ask, "can little Johnny go flying with you again."
Stunt is Ballroom dancing in the sky, not many kid wants to do that! At least not at first. Most who flew stunt as a junior were exposed to it for a while. I got interested in Stunt at age 48!
I can't get my own sons ages 21&14 interested. There is still hope on the 14 year old. His teammates are who I speak of. Think back, when we were young, where did we gravitate? At a meet like Union, who had stunt, carrier, scale, balloon burst, and combat going on at the same time. All the boys were at the combat circles 2 fast, 1 slow. Second was balloon burst. Even at Hazelton last year. The most exciting event of the day, where all the pilots sat and watched was..... Balloon Burst.
I think, if I could get my younger son to a combat meet or even a vintage combat fly in, I would Hook'em.
I think Stunt events with Fun fly events (that are exciting) going on simultaneously is a possible draw. There is the other issue, we have been stuck so far removed from everyone because of noise complaints that, we lack drive by exposure.
Best,
Tom
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Yes combat and balloon were the spectator shows. The people like a plane all kinds of maneuvers, especially when I do a wing over right at them. They just know the plane is going to hit them. I am one of those that took to flying stunt as it was hard flying racing planes from a stooge. HB~>
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In Switzerland, the number of aeromodellers has been increasing for many years. Most of our flyers use attractive ARF or RTF R/C models and operate them for their own pleasure, without ambitions to participate in competitions. This positive development was made possible by the commercial commitment of the industry and the wide range of products and services offered. The industry drives this development and a large mail order company from Asia alone now offers more than 100 different R/C aircraft at a price range of 50 - 210 USD. All are ready to fly and do not require any construction work.
There is no comparable offer for C/L models and so a potential beginner is faced with considerable problems. Often he does not have a suitable workshop and he lacks the basic knowledge and tools to build a model aircraft. Furthermore, the fact that he finds neither suitable accessories nor C/L related support from his local dealer is often sufficient to prevent an entry into the flying of control line models. But it is exactly this flying which is the real fascination of our sport and which forms the basis for an often lifelong passion. It is more the rule than the exception that in c/l one's own innovative power almost automatically leads to the construction of one's own aircraft.
I assume that the availability of a really suitable, ready to fly c/l aircraft would promote the entry of interested individuals of all age groups. An attractive and very good flying electric c/l model, together with the necessary accessories and offered ready to fly, would be useful for our common cause.
rgds, Peter
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I think about this very differently:
1) The value and interest for a substantial number of participants is (was?) the building activity
2) For them, flying what you built is much more interesting than flying what someone else built
3) Our recent culture has gravitated to passivity and the "nanny-state" and many of us have allowed that to influence us (a lot!!)
4) There are still people who have an interest in model airplane building (just as there are a lot of people who participate in the "making" activities)
5) We (or at least those of us who recognize the value of the building activity) just have to develop better ways of reaching out to find them (the ones with a building interest)
6) Just because we haven't found a slam-bang way of doing this doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means that we haven't found it yet
7) Surrendering to the current culture is the easy way out and is not healthy for the nation. We are loosing a critical part of our culture and who we are as Americans
8) AMA leadership is "leading" at 180 degrees opposite to what is needed. Almost every decision they make is the wrong one and they are consistently selecting pathways that are destructive to the hobby
9) Greater availability of ARFs may result in a couple more flyers, but they are here for the light entertainment and, for the most part, are simply passing through. Unless a way is found to channel them into building activities, the use of ARFs is non-productive
10) As I have found, there are at least a few kids at the Junior High level who are interested in building model airplanes. We need to come up with better ways of identifying and connecting with them
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Check This Out , https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/real-flash/ . Peter .
Those Elec Rc warbird 1/12th scale foamies'dve made good .049 control liners.
better wing loading than the plastic RTFs , maybe .
15 or 20 ft lines you could likely have a remote battery pack , to melt the lines rather than bury the aircraft .
Our First flying experiments only succeded after we'd cut the lines to suit a vacant lot , with a 049 profile .
Those string lines are hideous , but if theyre under 20 ft , youve got a chance .
Lines like string graffite HT leads . ? S?P battery pack on belt , so you get 1 hour duration .
Taught half the club to fly in one aftewrnoon with a Mills .75 Gnat ( sortofa Phantom Mite . Modelair N Z )
With a 100 cc squeeze bottle strapped on the side . The first 1/4 tank was precarious ,
nose up & narrow control margin . Fair ripped along in comparison on the last 1/4 .
Think Itd do 45 or 50 minutes on one fueling .
Analogy of the weights relevant .
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I think about this very differently:
1) The value and interest for a substantial number of participants is (was?) the building activity
2) For them, flying what you built is much more interesting than flying what someone else built
3) Our recent culture has gravitated to passivity and the "nanny-state" and many of us have allowed that to influence us (a lot!!)
4) There are still people who have an interest in model airplane building (just as there are a lot of people who participate in the "making" activities)
5) We (or at least those of us who recognize the value of the building activity) just have to develop better ways of reaching out to find them (the ones with a building interest)
6) Just because we haven't found a slam-bang way of doing this doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means that we haven't found it yet
7) Surrendering to the current culture is the easy way out and is not healthy for the nation. We are loosing a critical part of our culture and who we are as Americans
8) AMA leadership is "leading" at 180 degrees opposite to what is needed. Almost every decision they make is the wrong one and they are consistently selecting pathways that are destructive to the hobby
9) Greater availability of ARFs may result in a couple more flyers, but they are here for the light entertainment and, for the most part, are simply passing through. Unless a way is found to channel them into building activities, the use of ARFs is non-productive
10) As I have found, there are at least a few kids at the Junior High level who are interested in building model airplanes. We need to come up with better ways of identifying and connecting with them
I think you may be on to something here, at least I hope you are. When I think back to my first models (I think I was 6) it was my Dad building one of those old 5 cent Comet rubber band kits that got me started. Before long I would find myself stopping at the Drug store (small town, they carried everything) every day after school to see if any new kits had come out. They were little and almost never flew but I would build them anyway.
That is what is missing - the building. My grandson thinks it is boring to watch us fly and he is right, it is boring to watch but it is a blast to fly. Got to get them into building first. Don't know how.
Ken
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Kids are interested in the current cutting edge technology of the day. Today’s kids are no more interested in propeller driven aircraft than we were in the telegraph or the pony express.
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ken:
Maybe try a building session using Mountain Lion kits. It is not CL, but FF and it builds fast and easy and flies really well. Host a building session for your grandson and a bunch of his buddies and follow up at a local park or school ground with a competitive fly-off. I notice that the kids like to build in groups, not by themselves. They also really like mass-launches where everyone launches their plane at the same time.
The Mountain Lion is available from lasercutplanes for a very low price. The kids should be able to build it in an hour.
I do not teach CL building for a host of reasons (one of which is how long it takes to build one.) But the short time span for building the Mountain Lion fits in with their attention span. Just remember that one of your (unstated) goals is to stretch that attention span which has been conditioned by our current culture to be very short. If you can get them to stretch that attention span and find value in investing time in building, then a CL plane might make sense to them.
Good luck!
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I know the thought just hit me. Instead of kids how about younger adults that maybe need a past time to relax(building & flying)and forget the daily rat race of making a living. I have planes for the use of flying and besides look at the time we could spend at the field solving problems. H^^
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I know the thought just hit me. Instead of kids how about younger adults that maybe need a past time to relax(building & flying)and forget the daily rat race of making a living. I have planes for the use of flying and besides look at the time we could spend at the field solving problems. H^^
On the TV Show "Madam Secretary" the White House Chief of Staff was having a hard time relaxing and it was suggested that he make model airplanes - he did! Over the top liberal propaganda show but well acted and fun to watch.
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On the TV Show "Madam Secretary" the White House Chief of Staff was having a hard time relaxing and it was suggested that he make model airplanes - he did! Over the top liberal propaganda show but well acted and fun to watch.
Yep! Saw it .... good show! Bet his stress level drops like crazy!! LL~ LL~
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Hello
I have two boys aged 9 and 11 and have tried brainwashing them from birth on into believing control line models planes are the best hobby and sport on the planet . Surprisingly it seems to be working as they grow older and they see what their peers do, like look at screens and play sport the teachers and parents force them into.
Sport in New Zealand is Rugby (and religion some would say) and that puts a lot of kids off sport altogether as most kids don't mind the mud but hate the injuries and bullying that goes on.
Making aviation part of my sons lives is fun as it means trips to airshows and aviation museums and some neat movies/tv shows that boys like e.g Thunderbirds, The Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, and Disney's Planes movie and they enjoyed some of my old favorites classic movies like Torra Torra Torra and Battle of Britain and Midway. Pitty there are no longer the classic hobby shops around anymore we can visit easily as I enjoyed as a young person but a least I can show them pictures in my old model magazines of places like AHC and we can still look on the internet at some neat online shops together!
Both boys now admit to enjoying our routine of flying most weekends but this is largely due to my wife Alina who encourages them to build and fly and learn.
A supportive wife that enjoys time behind the handle is a great asset and she has built many a model and helped run contests and keep 'Team Wimmer' as we are often referred to running and performing at events.
We are not the only family here in New Zealand that flies together and it is great when we meet up with other similar families at our Nats or competitions and it makes us all seem normal for a change with our fellow Aeromodelling peers and the future seems more positive for control line and model flying in general ! :)!
Regards Gerald
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Hello
I have two boys aged 9 and 11 and have tried brainwashing them from birth on into believing control line models planes are the best hobby and sport on the planet . Surprisingly it seems to be working as they grow older and they see what their peers do, like look at screens and play sport the teachers and parents force them into.
Sport in New Zealand is Rugby (and religion some would say) and that puts a lot of kids off sport altogether as most kids don't mind the mud but hate the injuries and bullying that goes on.
Making aviation part of my sons lives is fun as it means trips to airshows and aviation museums and some neat movies/tv shows that boys like e.g Thunderbirds, The Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, and Disney's Planes movie and they enjoyed some of my old favorites classic movies like Torra Torra Torra and Battle of Britain and Midway. Pitty there are no longer the classic hobby shops around anymore we can visit easily as I enjoyed as a young person but a least I can show them pictures in my old model magazines of places like AHC and we can still look on the internet at some neat online shops together!
Both boys now admit to enjoying our routine of flying most weekends but this is largely due to my wife Alina who encourages them to build and fly and learn.
A supportive wife that enjoys time behind the handle is a great asset and she has built many a model and helped run contests and keep 'Team Wimmer' as we are often referred to running and performing at events.
We are not the only family here in New Zealand that flies together and it is great when we meet up with other similar families at our Nats or competitions and it makes us all seem normal for a change with our fellow Aeromodelling peers and the future seems more positive for control line and model flying in general ! :)!
Regards Gerald
You are a lucky man.
Ken
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Yes he is. H^^
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I think what has hurt control line the most is exposer. We back in my younger years we flew in city parks, ball diamonds, foot ball fields and vacant lots. Before the noise police. People came out to watch. Some got interested. My folks and my two brothers had no interest at all. I on the other hand was an addict. I stated early building stick and tissue models at about age 6, I made planes out of orange crate parts and tied a string to them and swung them around and made my own engine noise.
Built my first Hollow Log Scientific model witih an OK Cub .049 when I was ten. Built a few of those until I got interested in motorcycles, cars, and of course those whose clay is shaped different than ours.
After I got married I started flying contol line again. Built a few Fox 35 powered planes that I flew a lot. But the guys I flew with all went to R/C. So I did too. I flew R/C pattern for 24 years. Then I got the bug to fly control line again. Things have changed. The fields I use to fly in 25 years ago are no longer in existance. The R/C club put in a control line circle for me as I was the only one at the time that flew it. But I have to drive 58 miles round trip to fly there.
Now at 77 years old, I have physical problems that I doubt I will ever overcome. I ruined my back making a living. I was able to live with the pain and numbness in my left leg for a long time, but now I lose concentration on flying after a few minutes.
I still love it and do repair old Spark Ignition engines of which I also have a pretty good collection which i run in the back yard. No close neigbors back there.
But as said above, we just do not get the exposure. Most now days have never heard of contol line. Almost everyone has heard of R/C.
Control line died when the younger generation did not take up the hobby 30 to 40 years ago. If they had, even if they dropped out, there is always the good chance they would take it up again when they got older like so many of us did.
These are just my own thoughts. Maybe true and maybe not. I taught all my kids to fly on a Cox trainer, but none of them took to it. I beleive it does no good to try to interest someone in something they have no interest in. We are all different in our makeup.
Back when we were kids, those that took an interest would let nothng stop us. We were hooked. But others could care less. I think it's in our genes. But with exposure those out there that don't know it, are already hooked, they just don'know it. I think that makes sense. We have millions of fish, but only a few are catchable. But if we do not fish they will not be caught.
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I think what has hurt control line the most is exposer. We back in my younger years we flew in city parks, ball diamonds, foot ball fields and vacant lots. Before the noise police. People came out to watch. Some got interested. My folks and my two brothers had no interest at all. I on the other hand was an addict. I stated early building stick and tissue models at about age 6, I made planes out of orange crate parts and tied a string to them and swung them around and made my own engine noise.
Built my first Hollow Log Scientific model witih an OK Cub .049 when I was ten. Built a few of those until I got interested in motorcycles, cars, and of course those whose clay is shaped different than ours.
After I got married I started flying contol line again. Built a few Fox 35 powered planes that I flew a lot. But the guys I flew with all went to R/C. So I did too. I flew R/C pattern for 24 years. Then I got the bug to fly control line again. Things have changed. The fields I use to fly in 25 years ago are no longer in existance. The R/C club put in a control line circle for me as I was the only one at the time that flew it. But I have to drive 58 miles round trip to fly there.
Now at 77 years old, I have physical problems that I doubt I will ever overcome. I ruined my back making a living. I was able to live with the pain and numbness in my left leg for a long time, but now I lose concentration on flying after a few minutes.
I still love it and do repair old Spark Ignition engines of which I also have a pretty good collection which i run in the back yard. No close neigbors back there.
But as said above, we just do not get the exposure. Most now days have never heard of contol line. Almost everyone has heard of R/C.
Control line died when the younger generation did not take up the hobby 30 to 40 years ago. If they had, even if they dropped out, there is always the good chance they would take it up again when they got older like so many of us did.
These are just my own thoughts. Maybe true and maybe not. I taught all my kids to fly on a Cox trainer, but none of them took to it. I beleive it does no good to try to interest someone in something they have no interest in. We are all different in our makeup.
Back when we were kids, those that took an interest would let nothng stop us. We were hooked. But others could care less. I think it's in our genes. But with exposure those out there that don't know it, are already hooked, they just don'know it. I think that makes sense. We have millions of fish, but only a few are catchable. But if we do not fish they will not be caught.
Excellent observation!
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This organization has grown rapidly.
They have experienced nothing but growth over the years.
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But how many youngsters? ???
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https://www.gofundme.com/5o36acg
You have not blown the future right now?
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This organization has grown rapidly.
They have experienced nothing but growth over the years.
Yes, this is one segment of our hobby that is very healthy at the moment, we have a few Hucksters at our field, great fun watching these big planes go through their paces, and I'm quite surprised at how affordable a used plane ready to fly is, less than a new Yatsenko
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Good point Alexey!
Above "go fund me" is to help finance sending Samantha Hines to France to compete in World Cup competition.
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Yes, this is one segment of our hobby that is very healthy at the moment, we have a few Hucksters at our field, great fun watching these big planes go through their paces, and I'm quite surprised at how affordable a used plane ready to fly is, less than a new Yatsenko
I had them up to 90".
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I know the thought just hit me. Instead of kids how about younger adults that maybe need a past time to relax(building & flying)and forget the daily rat race of making a living. I have planes for the use of flying and besides look at the time we could spend at the field solving problems. H^^
This has been my thought for a long time. Don't focus on the kids, focus on their 20 to 30 something parrents, because they have the bank account and the minivan. If you get the Dad or the Mom interested, the kids are likely to think it's cool and come along, like father like son so to speak. This age group, like John says, may be looking for something different.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Control line died when the younger generation did not take up the hobby 30 to 40 years ago.
Check this for an "epitaph"
http://www.f2cmbl.org/phocadownload/WC2018/CompetitorsList.pdf (http://www.f2cmbl.org/phocadownload/WC2018/CompetitorsList.pdf)
and:
Think of retired people as potential c/l builders & flyers, too
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I think if CL is to survive it needs widespread exposure aimed at novice entry level modelers. it would need the backing of an outfit like Hobby Lobby, which has around 600 stores and thousands of feet of shelving to fill in each store. An attempt at introducing people to flying would need to severely restrict the range of products needed for success. In fact, I would suggest limiting everything to a single .15 sized plain bearing engine with handful of airframes designed for progress from basic flight to profile scale and profile stunt on 52 foot lines. This would only require limited fuel (qt.), a couple prop sizes, a tank or two etc. You would want to use just 3 or 4 feet of space to cover everything, and it would have to be affordable to a parent. Can a $30 engine still be produced?
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I think if CL is to survive it needs widespread exposure aimed at novice entry level modelers. it would need the backing of an outfit like Hobby Lobby, which has around 600 stores and thousands of feet of shelving to fill in each store. An attempt at introducing people to flying would need to severely restrict the range of products needed for success. In fact, I would suggest limiting everything to a single .15 sized plain bearing engine with handful of airframes designed for progress from basic flight to profile scale and profile stunt on 52 foot lines. This would only require limited fuel (qt.), a couple prop sizes, a tank or two etc. You would want to use just 3 or 4 feet of space to cover everything, and it would have to be affordable to a parent. Can a $30 engine still be produced?
I'd never advise using glow engines to recruit new modelers. Flying sites are hard enough to find with the accompanying noise. Also, todays potential modeler is not willing to put up with the storage,mess and cost of fuel.
I would recommend electric power and a 25 sized model. Do whatever it takes to remove the toy image from the association with model aircraft.
Having flown glow for over 60 years I don't miss it and electric power has opened other flying sites to us simply because we are not an annoyance.
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There is an assumption that seems wide-spread in control line that if someone is handed a handle and taught to fly they will catch "the bug" and want to join the hobby: that somehow the experience of flying will entice them into the hobby. Our club used to sponsor flying sessions at various events for years and we put a CL handle in hundreds of kid's hands to give them the flying experience. It just didn't work.
I think that our mistake was to think of the hobby as flying. But the hobby is actually building and flying what you built.
I would like to propose a different thought: it is the experience of flying a plane THAT YOU BUILT that is enticing. In fact, that is how many of us first entered the hobby: we built plastic airplanes but wanted more than to sit them on a shelf when they were done. That is why I built my first CL model. I then spent the rest of the summer (having no one around that knew anything about CL) trying and learning to fly it.
Consider this alternative: if you can get someone interested in building, then they will want to fly what they built.
If we incorrectly view this hobby as solely flying, we cannot understand how to promote it.
If we realize that the hobby is actually two-fold (building and then flying what we built) we may have more chance of attracting new participants. Since "building" has all kinds of benefits to kids (including the whole STEM issue that gets so much press these days) it would be easier to sell to parents (which some of you noted as a potential avenue for CL growth.)
But it is a steep climb: our current culture is against CL for many of the same reasons that STEM is struggling.
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the hobby is actually building and flying what you built.
AMEN! y1 y1 y1 y1
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There is an assumption that seems wide-spread in control line that if someone is handed a handle and taught to fly they will catch "the bug" and want to join the hobby: that somehow the experience of flying will entice them into the hobby. Our club used to sponsor flying sessions at various events for years and we put a CL handle in hundreds of kid's hands to give them the flying experience. It just didn't work.
I think that our mistake was to think of the hobby as flying. But the hobby is actually building and flying what you built.
I would like to propose a different thought: it is the experience of flying a plane THAT YOU BUILT that is enticing. In fact, that is how many of us first entered the hobby: we built plastic airplanes but wanted more than to sit them on a shelf when they were done. That is why I built my first CL model. I then spent the rest of the summer (having no one around that knew anything about CL) trying and learning to fly it.
Consider this alternative: if you can get someone interested in building, then they will want to fly what they built.
If we incorrectly view this hobby as solely flying, we cannot understand how to promote it.
If we realize that the hobby is actually two-fold (building and then flying what we built) we may have more chance of attracting new participants. Since "building" has all kinds of benefits to kids (including the whole STEM issue that gets so much press these days) it would be easier to sell to parents (which some of you noted as a potential avenue for CL growth.)
But it is a steep climb: our current culture is against CL for many of the same reasons that STEM is struggling.
Scott,
I don't disagree with you at all except that the times have changed. It was the allure of building a model and then flying it that made the hobby so appealing to me and no doubt everyone else on this forum.
But having tried to get youth interested in the hobby by building or flying has been basically pointless. They are interested if you do everything for them and hand them the handle but actually doing any of the work is almost a forgotten virtue among most of the youth that tried it.
Electric models seem to interest most of them much more than glow or gas powered models but their interest cannot be sustained very long.
Sadly I think that the only outcome for this hobby will probably be its extinction when the last of us is gone.
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One more thing.
Another way to damage the future of control line is to run people off.
I know several club members who refuse to learn the whole pattern. No interest in moving up and competing due to perceived attitudes.
I know another gentleman who got out of the hobby because he saw some guy throw his handle down and stomp around ranting at the Nats years ago.
I know of another club member who got out of RC Pattern due to "A**holes".. He also refuses to be in any contest. His participation in control line is limited at best.
I've seen people on this site rip other people on this site for the most trivial reasons.. IC vs Electric, AMA, drones, rules disputes.
I personally have been called an 'Effin Moron" for expressing an opinion regarding the AMA that apparently wasn't the agreed position of some of the more active members here.
Does that mean the people who leave the hobby or limit their participation have thin skins and need to "grow up"?
No, it means that the people who are ripping other people need to grow up.
Right now we need to help people find reasons to continue or get back in this hobby, not go elsewhere.
Remember, these are the guys who could be buying the engine or kit you have for sale in the classifieds, or they could be customers at Sig, Brodaks, Aero Products, RSM, or Stunt Hangar Hobby.
When I got back into this hobby I bought a lot of engines and kits.. Over the past year I've sold off all of my kits and all but 5 of my engines.. If I died of a heart attack I didn't want my wife to have $5000 of hobby stuff to try to get rid of. Thankfully there were still enough people in the hobby to absorb that flood on the market. I took a loss on most of it..
But as the hobby dwindles it will be harder and harder to sell off that kit collection or engine collection.
I personally am pretty close to letting this hobby go for a second time. Why? Time, cost and yes, attitudes.
I'm still working, and will be for some time. I'm a programmer at a hospital. I get called at all hours of the night whenever there is a system problem.. I have an art business. I play several musical instruments. I have a wife and a family.
When I have time for model airplanes I want it to be light hearted and fun..
If it becomes work, too serious, or I have to deal with jerks, I'll go elsewhere and do other things.
Also, just my 2c..
I tend to agree with most of what you have posted but in some ways I disagree with your reaction. It may just be the part of the country you are from. I am from Texas and I can't name a single flier here that fits your descriptions but we have a different problem. It is 300 miles to the nearest non club contest so we don't get out much. It is not that we don't produce great fliers, it is just that we don't produce a lot of fliers.
I agree that some at the top are complete snobs and really resent us of lesser accomplishment cluttering their circles and forums but they are very easy to ignore. I know it is difficult to be called names when all you are trying to do is get answers to questions or float ideas but, so what, if you get the feedback or the answer. Another thing that a lot of the newer "elites" seem to miss is that the sport/hobby has undergone a real change. We have gone from 40oz planes that barely held out on the lines in overhead maneuvers on a calm day to 60oz beasts that pull your arm off overhead in a 20mph wind. Engines that cost $35 in today's $$$ to ones that cost $600. It was all gradual and unless you sat out the change you can't fully understand the culture shock coming back in. Just politely ignore them, most of them mean well.
As to your main point though, the impression these people make to someone considering the sport is disastrous. We should do all we can to discourage it but one thing we can't hide is that the road to the top is long, expensive and generally requires someone that is already up there to open up a slot by making a mistake or dropping out. The elites totally control the sport and it is Invitation Only. Once you recognize that a 70+ year old body will never again possess the reactions to turn 10 out of 10 5' bottoms or look up at an overcast sky while turning, you start to have fun again and being around people having fun IS what attracts others to the sport or gets them to return.
"And that is just me, and I could be wrong."
Ken
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I hope nobody minds if I stick my Al's Models 4 download link on here. It includes 190,000 words, 1640 photos and pages and 25 minutes of video. Maybe it is too much for newcomers to the hobby but there is an awful lot about building, painting and competition, some of which should please most. This is all free just for clicking the link.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkHUtj971Jgk_k-N5vVQX_as0dcVexiz4Al
Al
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John,
Would my free download link help?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkHUtj971Jgk_k-N5vVQX_as0dcVexiz4
Al
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Ken,
It isn't my intention to call out any particular group of people..
I do know a few top fliers and the ones that I interact with have been genuine, down-to-earth and pleasant with me..
So while I do know and have seen what you are referring to, I haven't directly had to deal with that, thankfully.. Although I generally don't go to many contests because to me dealing with that sort of thing isn't worth the cost, time and effort.
In any hobby you get folks who are pompous know-it-alls who find a perverse joy in showing off their knowledge and belittling others. I've seen it in Model Train clubs, car clubs, plane-spotter clubs, Classical Music societies (often they are the worst) and art clubs. And it isn't generally the "top" people in the group.. Often it's the one who isn't quite at the top but who desperately wants to be. Although yes, there have been some I have seen where the "Top" person does throw his/her weight around and you either cow-tow to them or you are run off..
Online Forums in general tend to elicit this type of behavior, however. People say things on a forum they would NEVER say to a person's face.
Yet behind a computer screen we seem to find it so easy to launch a vicious attack and "verbally" destroy someone over the most trivial of topics.
"If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names." - Elbert Hubbard
And when people leave for this reason, they generally just disappear..
And finally someone notices they are gone and says "Where is so and so? And someone else says: "He got out of the hobby.." And someone else says "Why?" "Don't know, said he just doesn't have time for it anymore."
Maybe.. But maybe he also just got tired of dealing with attitudes..
My point is that for a hobby that is in decline we cannot afford to run folks off.
To do so we only hasten our demise and hurt ourselves in the long run.
How many in the membership list here used to be active but now aren't?
Something to think about..
Last of my 2c..
All the best,
Mark
I quite agree with everything you just said. My point, though clumsily made is that the group of fliers that make up what I would call the "Elite" are not as concerned with the general health of the hobby as they are with improving their rankings within it. As a result we sometimes see their frustrations as rudeness or arrogance when in reality they are simply reacting to having not achieved a goal that they have dedicated so much time and money towards. Away from competition most are some of the finest and most supportive people you can find. A lot of it is us not understanding or appreciating just how seriously they take winning and some of it is simple jealousy. There are very few "naturals" in this sport. Most have made it to the top by studying and relentless practice. They deserve our respect but that does not give them a license to act like fools either. The sad part is that there are so few that act this way yet the damage they do is horrific.
As for this forum, I see very little of what we are discussing here. Most everyone is civil, some are a bit arrogant at times but compared to most social media forums, this one is a winner.
Ken
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Quite a few JRs. flying combat these days.
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Hello Mike
Yes the allure of combat attracts the young fliers when they reach that age, even young Max is displaying combat flying tendencies now (another crunch with Otto's stunt model yesterday, trying to invent a whole new pattern ;D ).
Regards Gerald #^ ~> #^ ~>
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I hope nobody minds if I stick my Al's Models 4 download link on here.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkHUtj971Jgk_k-N5vVQX_as0dcVexiz4Al
Al
Thank you for posting this. I learned a lot from you back in the late 70's. I will never forget the first time I saw you fly the Sea Fury. I still think it was the most innovative and beautiful stunt ship ever built even if the Mustangs flew better. It is going to be fun reading through all of this.
Ken
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I fully agree, it is flying AND building, ARFs will not trigger creativity, such model is for kids only a toy - play, and then take somethink else. We have lot of kids here, just because there are people able to take their attention making models with them. Just check front row on first picture. It is from out latest contest. The other pictures show how they were attracted on schools with gyms. Kid which see that he can can build model with the same quality of flying like old guys flying contests for years are really motivated to do it further.
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One point often overlooked is the sparsity of flying friends and the ability to have access to an advanced flyer that can actually improve your flying ability.
In my instance it was over 90 miles either north or south to get to a flying session and there were only 3 people in 3 counties that were actually engaged in the hobby.
we are a relatively small group of people left doing this and it is basically pointless to have a solitary hobby. It is tragic to build and have as your flying associate your trusty stooge. Having a few contests spread out over 5/600 miles or more is not an answer to the problem.
Point is that it is nice to remember the past but tragic to live in the past. we really are a group headed to extinction.
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If I had only realized this years ago, it is not contests that draw people to model flying. It is the building sessions followed by flying for the fun of it that will keep it going. Yes, I pushed youngsters into competition and where are they now? Igor is lucky in that has an area that promotes the activity for the youngsters. Here in the US where do we have the planes he has that young people can afford. Those look easy enough to build/assemble and fly. I remember the late Jim Walker saying the Fire Baby was an almost give away plane ready to fly. It was the Fire Cat and other of his kits that made money. D>K
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Once upon a time in a land far away we used to fly indoor at our local grade school gym. They would leave it open for us in the evenings and the janitor would lock up when we left. That same school today would have me arrested. As long as we have lawyers running everything we will never be able to have the kind of success Igor is experiencing.
Ken
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Igor,
Are the plans for those indoor electric control line planes available somehwere? Do you sell them?
Is there a materials list somewhere?
Something like this would be very useful getting younger folks into it. Low cost, no mess, no noise.. In my area being able to fly indoors in a gym would be an advantage due to hard winters and often windy conditions.
Let me know..
Thanks,
Mark
We had home page for indoor GeeBee, unfortunatelly it has gone. I can post link to Youtube wher Paul W. comments his visit on our contest. BUt YT has more videos from such actions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KflatMocXbc&t=596s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KflatMocXbc&t=596s)
Luis O. did plan for GeeBee, I cannot upload here, because of size limit, I uploaded it on my home page for some time and you can download here:
http://maxbee.net/download/geebee_cl.pdf (http://maxbee.net/download/geebee_cl.pdf)
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I've flown my version of Igors Indoor Gee Bee for the past couple of winters. It's been a lot of fun, thank you Igor for the great design. FWIW I've attached a PDF of my version of the foam parts (both the full ANSI "E" size sheet and tiled for US Letter size sheets). Search this forum for lots of detailed build information. Unfortunately, there are challenges, the North American manufacturers of Depron have stopped supplying the hobby market several years ago. Igors timers work very well, I used a low RPM version of the KR Governor. Good Luck.
Paul
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That should be a great combo. I may try electric one of these years, but having too much fun taking it out on the IC engines. By the way the Hobo is flying great for me again. H^^
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Just a few things that haven't turned up so far... A great deal of excellent comment so far!
The first CL I ever saw was flown on the ruins of Luna Park, Coney Island, Brooklyn. NY. The Park had burned down either just before or early during WW2 and remained undeveloped for several years. The circles used were just below the elevated easternmost tracks at the Stilwell Avenue terminal of BMT subway lines. Date? About 1946-47. All BMT lines converged there to bring people to the Coney Island beaches and circus-like Boardwalk rides and concessions. Tried to get a closer look on next beach outings. No luck. Timing?
Next was a legendary Armory toy and recreation show in Manhattan, about 1948, where several fliers demonstrated CL in a cage maybe 45' across! Too cramped!! But the sound and aroma were there...
Found model aircraft magazines soon afterwards. They covered of all aspects about equally, whether it was the dozen or fewer RC pioneers, the hundred or so indoor microfilm FF specialists, the thousands of outdoor FF fliers or the growing hundreds and thousands in CL's boom years. it read as if all were happening universally, and heavily attended.
Succeeded with a very few dime Comet "scale" rubber FF kits, then discovered engines, Not really room in my Brooklyn neighborhood to fly even the AJ sheet wing, balloon tank profile, and no car in the family..
Motivation will out, anyhow. At about 12, did succeed with CL, an own-design on McCoy 098 'power.' It could fly level with a strong enough hand launch. Overweight. I did "loop" it occasionally. More of a lap with one side higher and me leaning way back to see it instead of turning with it. From there, onward and upward. As when I got three laps behind my first flight on a Flite Streak before it completed one lap! A case of PIO!! Repaired, it lasted a several more years.
So far, no need for outside encouragement. The magazines practically pushed RC, in days when an airborne pack could weigh several pounds. Controls only gave Neutral -or Left rudder -or Right rudder, with a possibly a blip to shift the engine between high and low speed... Much progress since, but it not a huge involved number back then. Reeds, Galloping Ghost, proportional and other approaches were years later.
Then as now, magazines must make money to stay in business. They favor "the industry," which buys advertising space, and is sweetened by featured and favorable reviews of their latest toys uh, products.
Coverage of other aspects doesn't pay as well, and the most intricate expertise in, E.g., Indoor FF techniques, or a reduced depth coverage of World Championship results for one aspect or another, may appear. The few who do create are still appearing IF it's RC.
I did several AMA Delta Dart sessions with local middle schoolers. X-Acto knives, CyA glues, etc. The kids were nervous at first, but got into it. Didn't believe their own 'monstrosity' would ever fly. The looks on their faces when that foolproof baby actually did? A deep reward to me, as their guide to that point. But none of them ever came back to go further with building model planes.
Groups of kids that age and a bit older, offered a CL flight on a Guillow's profile trainer type. Both of us on the handle until the kid got the feel. Most crashed, damaging the plane. Their comments? "Gee, that was cool. When you get it fixed I'd like to do it again." No sign of interest in putting their own Ukie together. This occasionally over the past 25 years. Finally decided that my head was not going to break down that brick wall..
The concept of building something to fly is alien to a lot of people, today. Why bother? The department store toys look much nicer and they are ready to go almost as soon as you open the box. But they ARE all junk. Whaddya mean did I read the instructions? Or ask somebody to get me started? You think I'm stupid or something? They just won't fly; it's a ripoff...
We occasionally have parent, and/or 'local hero' problems, too. Dad feels it would be nice to do something together with Junior. They find, or may have seen, a local RC club flying. They connect. The local self-appointed Flight Instructor guides their purchases and trains them to the basics. He is often of limited ability. A trainee going beyond his ability would lower his 'hero pilot' standing. Meanwhile, Junior learns quicker and better than Dad. Dad loses interest in carrying Junior out to the field for him to be humiliated. Neither has a 'next step up' to pursue, or a reason to seek one. They gradually slip away.
In several years as an RC Club Officer, I saw large Membership turnover cycles of about two years, as this stagnation point took effect.
It's fine for the industry. They get to sell to a steady, consistent beginner level market.
Traditionally, we in CL SHOULD have less of this, since we need someone to launch for us and help us clear the circle. We also encourage and help new buddies to improve. We take pride in seeing a new guy develop beyond our level. Those who carp and abuse may be few, but they can be loud. In our present days of hypersensitivity, few see reason to keep that in perspective.
My prognosis for the future of CL? It won't long survive us. I am one of the oldest fliers in this discussion - I'll be 80 late next year - and to my knowledge only Lew Woolard and possibly Glen Allison and Keith Trostle "outrank" me. We've had a good time. and several younger guys enjoy being part of what we started. Whether they can form that into something that will endure for their active futures, is something I might see, but probably won't. Not gloomy or morbid! Not eager to "look up at the grass" either, but can accept that will eventually happen.
Anyway, smile! It really bugs those who disagree with you....
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The future is here. Well, we can see it anyway. My kids fly, they tell their friends. Maybe more will join us. We have a lot of fun, and I guess we'll see where it goes.
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Wonderful!!
The kids have to want to do it. We should work at passing along the pleasures we've enjoyed, too. But NOT to force it, or drag any into it. Unwanted force almost always meets a counterforce...
The skills of any constructive hobby apply in so many areas of our lives that that alone should encourage support for such activities. Instead, we have to rely on trained and licensed specialists for simple things that are now regulated to extremes. Used to tinker with car engines, but now when you open the hood of many cars you can't even see the engine. Plumbing? Wiring repairs? Etc., etc. ... A constructive hobby can give the confidence to DO many simple things for ourselves.
It is still possible, though many don't see it worth the effort. Our hobby does require individual effort, and that can - usually does - bring a sense of reward and accomplishment that others will never know. It also instills a sense of advancement by further effort. In CL we can easily go beyond boring circular holes in the sky, which too easily turn into VERY boring holes in the sky...
It's worth it, and you meet great friends... You go around in the BEST circles!
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YES , was going to say ' Overseas ' , Latin America , Europe etc , China & Japan , Er ASIA ?? . there still appears to be a ' Air Age ' .
Perhaps peopleee aircraft as destructive or as buses , in some places , :o :-\ . To high a population density to have any room , in walking / cycling distance for kids .
Though once 50 miles return was ' no problem ' , for stroppy youths on bicycles .
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I think that because we’re looking from our perspective of satisfaction, pride, patience, problem-solving, the achievement of thinking through, then completing a multi-faceted task, then finally flying a worthy aircraft, I think we’re not seeing the wood for the trees.
Today I can go buy a fully aerobatic RC Pitts Special, screw the wings on, add battery, receiver and fly, for a hundred bucks. On top of this, I can cyano it back together and be flying again within fifteen minutes of crashing. And possibly most importantly, it hasn’t cost much more than dinner and a movie for two.
This is what today’s generation is used to, and to try to entice new modellers with all the things which tickle our funny-bones, is using the wrong bait. If we want to get with the times, we need to make it easy to assemble and fly a plane that’s capable and looks realistic. You can do it with RC.
I started with a plastic PT-19 with a Cox 049, held together with rubber bands. The firewall had 3 positions – training (very nose-down), intermediate (little nose-down), and advanced (no nose-down), and oh-boy, the trainer position was stable. So maybe an e-foamie that looks cool - like a Pitts special? Who doesn’t love a biplane? Or maybe a Spitfire, or Mustang, or maybe a WWII range which includes a Me-109 and Fw-190 (with all the same specs just different shapes so they’re ‘even’, and maybe only 2 firewall positions nose-down and level) so a few kids can buy them and combat. Or more importantly for US to buy and combat ;) Imagine how good that would look from the road :)
I’m no expert, but I do watch my kids’ reaction to listening to me talk about what makes me happy about flying, and the only thing that lights their eyes up is the ‘flying’ bit. Sad but true. We can @#$%’n’moan about “the old days” and “values”, but “today” is what it is, and people are used to “now”.
Flying a cool capable plane is instantly accessible in RC. I think if we have any chance of keeping our sport alive, we need something like this - cheap’ish, easy to get going, flies well, easy to repair, and most importantly, looks cool so the kids can be proud to show their plane off to their mates. They need to gain cred-points, not be labelled a nerd, and let's face it, an RC WWII fighter is just plain cool. So why not a CL WWII fighter?
Am I pissing in the wind here...? Do I have my head so far up my perceptions that I can't see out anymore? Please howl me down if I’m barking up the wrong tree… If you don't, I WILL continue to gnaw this bone 'coz I think I'm onto something here. And now I've run out of dog metaphors...
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In hind sight I think the flying is what the kids want to do with out all the fuss of building a plane. Also I think I made a mistake into talking the three grandkids into fly in a contest. Only Emmy flew in more than one contest but then friends convinced her she shouldn't be playing with toy planes. I would be so happy if I could get them all out to fly the planes I have for just flying. Back when I had a few guys flying back in the 70's it was for fun. First weekend I went to a contest most quit coming to the circle. Now I go fly and seldom do a pattern. Get my kicks flying the Vagabond that flies like a Bi-Slob and the B-25 that people say shouldn't do aerobatics. Have one grand child that I don't think will grow up so I can have my vehicle so I can set a schedule. Grandma is no help either. But, Dane it is great you have those youngsters that want to fly.
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I’m no expert, but I do watch my kids’ reaction to listening to me talk about what makes me happy about flying, and the only thing that lights their eyes up is the ‘flying’ bit. Sad but true. We can @#$%’n’moan about “the old days” and “values”, but “today” is what it is, and people are used to “now”.
I am not sure there is any answer to the problem. Certainly the hook for new blood is flying but, because we have been shoved out of virtually any flying place where the general public can see us makes that rather difficult. When I was a kid there wasn't an afternoon that you couldn't hear an .049 running somewhere within earshot. I haven't heard one in 30 years. Most of us can remember when line length was half the distance between the trees in the back yard. My point is, how are we going to get them excited about flying if there is no place to fly? My submission to the "Ideas that probably won't work" list would be to have low cost electric ARF planes fully built available at a reasonable price and start convincing schools and parks that our new silent toys are not dangerous and we need a place to fly them. It would also be nice if we started thinking in terms of .15 sized planes more. It is easier to find a 100' clearing than it is a 150'. Finally, BOM and appearance points are for Classic/N-30 and Expert only.
OR - maybe we are just Dinosaurs looking for a tar pit.
Ken
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How much would it cost to replicate one of Carl Goldbergs slab wing planes with an RSM Dist power set up. I think the late Jim Walker of A-J Aircraft stated the 1/2A Fire Baby was his break even product which then people bought the Fire Cat. D>K
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Just a thought ,
it appears that the northern latitudes types provide AVIATION as a school skylable , With MODEL Aviation as a Sector of THAT .
With that the model aircraft bit is more of a science , and part of a broader plot and scheme of futer trades / tecnitions / scientists / designers ,
Rather than ' toy aeroplanes ' . So is taken in a rather more serious / studious vein .
All in the PRESENTATION ??
When it was encouraged by corporations and for armed forces recruitment , in the U.S. it was hugely popular .
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Do they look like dinosaurs? ;D
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I would love to have such a program in the US but first you would have to find a school that would allow it. Matt is 100% correct, "When it was encouraged by corporations and for armed forces recruitment , in the U.S. it was hugely popular ." Now it is encouraged by no one and between the lawyers and pinheads in local government this could only happen here if it were in some way a progressive fundraiser.