Fuel Jugs

[dennyleo]

I had frequent problems with plastic fuel jugs (especially SIG) leaking some years ago and found an alternative.  My wife loves Arizona Sweet Tea and buys it in gallon jugs - which make great fuel jugs.  The caps are thick and accept a Du-Bro Fuel Can Cap Fittings Set quite nicely.

No leaking after several years.

Dennis

[Brett Buck]

I strongly recommend this fitting:

https://www.amainhobbies.com/dubro-kwik-fill-fuel-can-fitting-dub807/p29357?msclkid=0f2b275e76fc140aa3b64f6d898503c8&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=AH%20-%20MS%20-SHP-U-All%20Products%20-%20(0-25)%20-%20Branded%20-%20TROAS%20-%20MM&utm_term=4585581971792825&utm_content=dubro


   over the brass type. The brass type does not seal properly and allows the fuel to "breathe" and it will just corrode away over time. The kwik-fill seals airtight with an o-ring, will not breathe even when left in a hot car, and the aluminum and plastic seem to be nearly eternal.

     Plastic jugs are OK for temporary use, but I much prefer metal cans (like powermaster comes in, Type F), opaque, much more durable than plastic.

     As in the other thread - fuel will last almost forever if it is stored in an opaque, airtight container, and doesn't have contamination to begin with. I leave my fuel in the back of my minivan, it cycles from 35 to maybe 140 degrees over the years, no apparent ill  effects.

    Brett

[Steve Thompson]

Poly Carbonate jugs are incompatible with nitro glow fuels.

Years back I used some really nice 1-liter laboratory media storage bottles for fuel that were made of Poly Carbonate.  A great size and shape for me and very tough.  I got one out in the Spring that had contained fuel all winter and the entire bottle was covered in (crazing) cracks.  A whole network of cracks that left maybe 1/4-inch space between like a spider web.  The cracks did not go all the way through, and nothing leaked, but it sure looked, crazed.  As I recall straight methanol did not craze and is compatible with PC.  Nitromethane is incompatible and I got to see why. 

I store fuel in an old Coleman Metal cooler that fits 6 1-gallon jugs real nice.  Keeps light out and moderates temperature swings in garage storage.

[Lauri Malila]

Yep, polycarbonate + alcohol is a no-no.
I usually mix only 1-2 litres at time, enough for weekends flying.
As total overkills are nice, I have these 1L Nalgene teflon bottles. I think they are the best (maybe after metal) when it comes to chemical resistance and impermeability. They are also mechanically quite bulletproof, I think they could be run over by car with no damage. L

[dennyleo]

No such problems at all with the Arizona Tea containers after several years - perfectly fine containers and fuels.

I agree metal containers are better but suspect if we took a poll we'd find most here purchase fuel in plastic jugs.  Your own mileage may vary, as the saying goes ...

Dennis

[Brett Buck]

Yep, polycarbonate + alcohol is a no-no.
I usually mix only 1-2 litres at time, enough for weekends flying.
As total overkills are nice, I have these 1L Nalgene teflon bottles. I think they are the best (maybe after metal) when it comes to chemical resistance and impermeability. They are also mechanically quite bulletproof, I think they could be run over by car with no damage. L

      I am using Nalgene bottles to store Klass-Kote thinner, to get around the tendency to leak out/evaporate out of the quart metal cans it comes in. For whatever reason, it manages to worm it's way out of the seams, and while I have one can that I soldered up the seams, it still gets through any of the various seals I have put in the cap. 

       I am a little nervous about the durability of the Nalgene with the pretty nasty solvents, but so far so good. I am told that either glass or *teflon* is a better choice for lacquer thinner-like storage, but toughened glass or teflon containers are ridiculously expensive and I am a model airplane guy ,therefore cheap.

     It's a bit different with fuel, that seems to be perfectly fine in the cans it comes in, and you have to carry it around and leave it outside for long periods. As  far as I can tell, sealed or tightly capped in the original can, sealed, you can do almost anything you want as far as storage goes, with no ill effects.

     Brett

[Lauri Malila]

 Yes, I have small std Nalgene cans, for diluted contact cement for covering and such. They seem to evaporate a little and the plastic hardens up in time, but nothing catastrophic for such small quantities.
The teflon bottles are ridiculously expensive, something like 100USD/pce, but sometimes you find them cheaper, new old stock or stolen, from Ebay.
The thing is, that we don't have have the original cans here. Methanol comes in metal cans which I think is good, I wouldn't trust plastic with pure methanol. When mixed with oil, it seems to hold better. L

[GallopingGhostler]

I put some mixed with water orange radiator coolant in an empty gallon windshield washer fluid jug. Say 5 or 6 months later, it developed a weep, spotting the garage concrete floor. I temporarily put it in another to hold the liquid.

Those jugs probably would not be good for glow fuel.

[Steve Thompson]

Methanol is not the main contributor with plastic incompatibility.  Nitro is the problem.

Searching for, "nitromethane chemical compatibility with plastic" gets:

https://media.suweb.site/2016/04/chemical_compatibility_for_nalgene_containers.pdf

[Brett Buck]

Methanol is not the main contributor with plastic incompatibility.  Nitro is the problem.

Searching for, "nitromethane chemical compatibility with plastic" gets:

https://media.suweb.site/2016/04/chemical_compatibility_for_nalgene_containers.pdf

   Exactly. Almost everyone we fly with uses the original metal cans it comes in. David, ever the radical, takes it out of the cans to mix whatever he mixes in*, then filters and puts it in a "use jug" that he takes back and forth to the field. That way, at least it is not in the plastic for long, a few months at most. We harrased him into putting a towel over it to keep the sun off. It's looking pretty stained and questionable at this point and I won't let him put a jug with fuel in it in my van for our trips.

    Brett

*And, for goodness sake, don't take this as something everyone should emulate, so they can fly just like David if they put some goop in the fuel!  Based on very recent evidence and years of experience, *almost everyone should leave their fuel exactly as it comes from the factory*, do not put anything additional into it, in particular not:
   Castor Oil
   2-stroke Oil
   KL-198, KL-200, etc
   Anything anyone else tells you is "secret oil"
   Acetone
   Anthing else from the paint thinner aisle of Home Depot
   Anything ever used as a monopropellant rocket fuel  (that includes nitromethane, because *it already has nitromethane in it*)
   Anything with a chemical name ending in "zine"
   Armor All
   RainX
   "Lubricin" (which might be almost anything at this point, you do not know what is in that Walgreen's pill bottle, since no obe actually buys an entire quart of it).
   
Your 46LA, Brodak 40, etc is an ABN, ABC or AAC engine, it does not want lots of castor oil, or anything else. There have been a bunch of threads here about "bad fuel" recently, the last few flying sessions and contests, people were having inordinate issues with engine runs tracable to fuel, all of it in some effort to replicate the bad advice about some magic mystery substance (note to self, add "Marvel Mystery Oil" to list of things not to put in your fuel) they picked up somwhere.

    For reference, I run Powermaster 10 or 15% "Air" regular sport RC fuel) straight out of the can most of the time. David Fitzgerald runs Powermaster 10 of 15% "Heli" most of the time.   I know *a few* very minor changes I occasionally make in rare circumstances, David, too, but *it runs perfectly OK straight out of the can* (and, sometimes it was a 20-year-old formerly opened can...).

       Before the next thread, I will give this as premium stunt advice, no charge - if anyone is  going to start a thread about how their engine won't run right or start reliably, you can type in my advice before you even finish - go get reputable fuel from a known manufacturer, do not modify it ,and then test again.
 BWB

[dennyleo]

LOL Brett!  But, do you even know what Lubricin is!?!

“Lubricin is a surface-active mucinous glycoprotein secreted in the synovial joint that plays an important role in cartilage integrity.  In healthy joints, lubricin molecules coat the cartilage surface, providing boundary lubrication and preventing cell and protein adhesion.” - ScienceDirect

Seriously guys, there’s a lotta theory here …

“Plastics are a wide range of synthetic or semisynthetic materials that use polymers as a main ingredient.” - Wikipedia

Some Facts:

Thousands of gallons of model airplane fuels are sold and shipped in plastic containers every year.  My guess is the vast majority of readers here buy their fuel that way.  Maybe nitro doesn’t equally attack all plastics?

Lubricin N-1: an ester of ricinoleic acid (the primary component of castor oil).  Works absolute wonders with castor oil, formerly available from Baker until they stopped supplying it in anything less than 55-gallon drums.  Previously discussed here:

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/lubricin-n-1/

Long ago a modeler I knew sent a new Fox 36X back to Fox several times to deal with “flaws”.  Duke finally sent the engine back with a note that read , “Quit worrying, go flying!”  Doesn't theory tell us bumblebees can't fly?

Dennis

[Brett Buck]

LOL Brett!  But, do you even know what Lubricin is!?!

“Lubricin is a surface-active mucinous glycoprotein secreted in the synovial joint that plays an important role in cartilage integrity.  In healthy joints, lubricin molecules coat the cartilage surface, providing boundary lubrication and preventing cell and protein adhesion.” - ScienceDirect

Seriously guys, there’s a lotta theory here …

    I know what Lubricin is. I also know that it comes in a bottle with a label on it, sealed from the factory.

     What I do not know is what some guy at a stunt contest giving you some "lubricin" in a CVS pill bottle from the bottom of his toolbox might be. Because at least two of the specific issues I have seen in recent years was *exactly* that. With the result of engines that would not start and run for more than 10 seconds, and solved by using straight fuel that had been sitting in the back of my van for the last 4 year.

    BTW - I am not sure what you are talking about "theory" or "facts". My post was motivated by the problems I see repeatedly (as recently as 24 hours ago) with people doctoring or incorrectly storing fuel over the years in real life with real consequences.   There are 20-30 threads about fuel additives coming to grief in the engine setup forum and a couple in a the last week or so.

     Engine flaming out with no warning and wrecking the airplane - because of incorrect or otherwise contaminated fuel -  is not a "theory".

    Some of us have had to run down these fuel issues repeatedly, that's how we know about it.

      Brett

   

[Motorman]

I buy Torqo 100% nitro in plastic bottles and use it up over the year. Never had a leak. Go figure.

I still have a pint of Lubricin from Red Max. You only add 2% to the mix. Said to make castor more slippy. I never noticed any increase in speed or range so, I don't bother with it. I wouldn't use it with synthetic, might turn gummy.     

MM

[Dave_Trible]

Yes most all fuel sold in the last 30 years came in plastic jugs.   The cost of the jugs is pennies.   Very few metal cans are still made today and that’s because of the cost in comparison.   That doesn’t mean plastic is better,  just competitive price wise.   Can you keep fuel in plastic- yes- if they don’t eventually leak .  Is the fuel as good over time?  Personally I doubt it.   When I first started mixing fuel I ordered about a dozen nice new plastic jugs- F type- I liked the shape,  from ULine.  They are a major supplier of these.   I found pretty soon that the fuel caused the bottom to swell and in short order split at the seam.   I had much better luck with windshield washer fluid jugs( which also have a rubber seal on the cap).   I’d buy the fluid and dump it out, then let the jugs dry out before using them.  Still cheaper than Uline jugs.   I still sometimes store methanol short term in those but I’ve collected a good supply of empty acetone and lacquer thinner gallon metal cans that I use those mostly and feel comfortable about storing fuel and ingredients.

Dave

[Geoff Goodworth]

In Australia most of the 1 Litre bottles are PET.

It would be 20 years ago now but I managed to get hold of several high density polyethylene (HDPE) bottles marked as poison and used them with similar bottles made of PET thinking they would be good for fuel.

For some bizarre reason, the fuel kept in the PET bottles separated and would not remix. The HDPE bottles in both 1 L and 1 gallon sizes have been fine all this time.

[Brett Buck]

For some bizarre reason, the fuel kept in the PET bottles separated and would not remix. The HDPE bottles in both 1 L and 1 gallon sizes have been fine all this time.

    That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected any reaction at all, at least over the short time. 

     Brett

[Dan McEntee]

   As I remember it from my time working part time at a local hobby shop starting in the late 70s, most of the fuel we carried came in cans at that time. K&B, and Fox, and  Rich's Brew, and there might have been some others. Powermast came along at some point. SIG fuel was even in gallon cans back then. I have one in my collection.Then the concerns about HAZMAT regulations came about, and everyone switched to plastic " for safety reasons " because some carriers wouldn't ship it if it was in cans. I also remember reading some safety concerns in Model Aviation magazine about fuel in metal cans. There were incidents and accidents reported about fires caused when the can came in contact with a glow clip or anything else powered by the 12 battery in a typical field/ flight box. And cost I'm sure had some influence on the decision. Then several years down the road, Power Master bucked the trend and went back to cans, and according to them, it was for "safety reasons." In this day and age, I imagine it is quite expensive to produce a gallon can such as what VP Powermaster has now with all the colors is uses. And volume purchase doesn't help at all with the decreased sales of engines and fuel these days. Whoda thunk it would ever get to be this way!!??
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[dennyleo]

I know what Lubricin is. I also know that it comes in a bottle with a label on it, sealed from the factory.
Brett

Brett, can you tell me where I can buy Lubricin “in a bottle with a label on it, sealed from the factory?”

Just asking for a friend of course … But, unless you have a special connection, I suspect you’re looking at a minimum 55-gallon drum purchase.  And cost has been mentioned here, check out the cost of that drum.  Which probably explains why Lubricin N-1 isn’t being used to any great extent with castor oil-based fuels.

I don’t know anything about that product stored in CVS pill bottles, but I have considerable experience using it in fuels sold in several states in the ‘60s.  I have great respect for Randy Smith - even joined with him in cheering for his Georgia Bulldogs in a couple of recent NCAA championships - but I’ve found Lubricin N-1 to be a great compliment to castor oil in our fuels.

Fox identified it as a “detergent” and it does have that quality, but I can’t overstate its incredible affinity to metal surfaces.  It pretty much ensures a layer of lubricant on moving surfaces.  And one has to wonder why Fox and several others included it in their fuels and SIG sold it as an additive if it’s not effective …

My introduction to it was in the early ‘60s.  A combat teammate and I got together early on a Saturday morning.  Before we started practicing and wringing out Sneekers, I started 3 McCoy .19 Red Head engines, setting them as lean as possible (yes, we all know quality control wasn’t the greatest on those McCoys, but the test results speak for themselves).  Each engine was fed with the same fuel other than the lubricants.

Engine #1 was run on 25% synthetic oil, most likely Ucon LB-525 or 625 at the time.  It quit within an hour or two - it’s been many years - and the insides were remarkably clean, but the engine had the compression of a toothpick in a sewer pipe.  Completely unusable.

Engine #2 ran on 25% castor oil.  It ran a bit longer, but the insides were just plain ugly.  It could be cleaned up but would never be the same.

Engine #3 ran on 20% castor oil and 5% Lubricin N-1.  It was still running late in the afternoon - remember, it had been set to run as lean as possible - and I shut it down.  The insides were surprisingly clean, and it still had great compression.

I mounted that engine on a Top Flite Streak Trainer and dragged it to flying sessions, teaching several to fly with it over the years.  I finally left that plane and engine with a 15-year-old about 21 years later; he had mastered inside and outside loops, inverted flight and figure eights with it and was having a ball.  And the engine started and ran beautifully.

We included N-1 with all of our castor oil-based fuels, and they sold well.  That’s my personal experience - nothing to do with pill bottles, just a commercial venture.

Dennis

[dennyleo]

Forgive me, I just gotta add advice from Don Nix of Powermaster:

Some Answers about Fuel . . .
We get dozens of calls every month asking questions about model engine fuel. These are among the most frequently asked:

Q: What's the shelf life of fuel — how long will it stay good?
A: Glow fuel will last almost indefinitely if it is protected from contact with air as much as is practical. Most often, fuel is "killed" by absorption of moisture from the air. Unlike gasoline, methanol - the primary ingredient in fuel - is hydroscopic and absorbs moisture aggressively. A container of fuel left slightly open for an hour in humid weather will be pretty well ruined.

Q: How can I know if my fuel has absorbed too much moisture? Is there a simple test I can perform?
A: The "simple test" is to run the fuel. The first sign of moisture absorption is an inability to obtain a normal idle — or any idle at all. Typically, the engine will be difficult to start and will die, or it will begin to run roughly as soon as you remove the glow battery. To verify, drain the tank, fill with fresh fuel, and restart. If the engine runs smoothly, then there's little doubt that moisture's the problem.

Q: Why doesn't someone invent a pill that can be dropped into fuel to absorb all the moisture, such as the little moisture absorbing packets packed with alot of products?
A: A wonderful thought. Unfortunately, it's not possible. Methanol is 100% soluble in water, and short of an expensive distillation process, there's no way to "unabsorb" it.

Q: What can I do to protect my fuel?
A: Keep fuel tightly sealed and minimize air space in the container. Open only when necessary and keep all tank vents sealed (hook the filler and pressure lines together after each flight with a short piece of tubing). Plastic keeps fuel better and longer than metal, and the containers don't rust. If you do use a metal can, replace it from time to time to prevent corrosion.

       - Product Focus publication, May 1996

Dennis

[Lauri Malila]

[quote author=dennyleo
Engine #1 was run on 25% synthetic oil, most likely Ucon LB-525 or 625 at the time.  It quit within an hour or two - it’s been many years - and the insides were remarkably clean, but the engine had the compression of a toothpick in a sewer pipe.  Completely unusable.

Engine #2 ran on 25% castor oil.  It ran a bit longer, but the insides were just plain ugly.  It could be cleaned up but would never be the same.

Engine #3 ran on 20% castor oil and 5% Lubricin N-1.  It was still running late in the afternoon - remember, it had been set to run as lean as possible - and I shut it down.  The insides were surprisingly clean, and it still had great compression.


Dennis
[/quote]

Nice test, but remember that what works with one metallurgy/quality standard, is counter-productive with another. For sure the old school engines benefit from increased lubrication, especially castor-based. But with modern stuff it’s quite opposite. At least my experiments show that less oil improves every aspect of engine run; power, reactivity, running symmetry and thermal hysteresis. Also the running temperature dropped. Even a drop from 20 to 17% (Klotz Super techniplate) was noticeable, next step is 15% and the lower viscosity Lite Techniplate.
The weakest point in these experiment were crank/piston pins, but the wear issues were 100% solved with diamond coating. L

[Dave_Trible]

Just as an aside to what I spoke about in my previous post;   just priced some cans/jugs.     
Best price I found on metal;   the can  $5.81 the lid .67 or $6.48 ea. for a plain can-no labels or paint applied yet.

Best price on the plastic jug;  $2.35 in bulk of 40+-add paper label.

I believe this shows why most fuel is provided in plastic jugs.   I also think this is where the premium price for VP fuel comes from-more about the metal can than the fuel itself though I know it's good fuel generally.  If you were buying 1000+ containers you could negotiate a price break I'd guess but today you couldn't sell that much fuel to justify fronting that much money at once.  Also,  where you gonna store them?

Dave

[Brett Buck]

Nice test, but remember that what works with one metallurgy/quality standard, is counter-productive with another. For sure the old school engines benefit from increased lubrication, especially castor-based. But with modern stuff it’s quite opposite. At least my experiments show that less oil improves every aspect of engine run; power, reactivity, running symmetry and thermal hysteresis.

      Exactly. I would only add that the larger the engine, the more difference it seems to make. After a bunch of experiments with it, at least on conventional engines, the viscosity effects on the fuel draw are probably have the biggest effects. But it also stands to reason that running high-precision fits everywhere, with tens of thousands of an inch clearances, you have to shear any lubricant by large amounts of a a very short space. That has to cause heat and drag, both of which are highly detrimental to good stunt runs.

    These are not Fox 35s with massively sloppy fits everywhere, to be filled up with the thickest oil you can get.

           Brett

[dennyleo]

Nice test, but remember that what works with one metallurgy/quality standard, is counter-productive with another.
L

Which is why I specifically advocated for Lubricin N-1 with castor oil-based fuels.

I’ll add another caveat to metallurgy: what are our expectations of an engine?  At the same time as those tests, I was running Fox 36X engines in Combat on 30% nitro and 23% synthetic oils, consistently having a speed advantage over opponents.  And completely rebuilding or replacing the engines every spring.

Incidentally, Lubricin N-1 isn’t “the thickest oil you can get.”  I mentioned it’s known for a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces.  Seems to me an ideal lubricant would be a one-molecule thick layer on moving surfaces, but what do I know?  I’ll leave that to the Experts.  But I do know when something works …

Dennis

[Brett Buck]

Which is why I specifically advocated for Lubricin N-1 with castor oil-based fuels.

I’ll add another caveat to metallurgy: what are our expectations of an engine? 

   The only competitive production/semi-custom stunt engines as of 2025 are the PA Series (AAC), in particularly the 75, the RO-Jett 61 BSE and 67LS BSE (AAC),  and in a stretch the OS 40/46VF (ABN). Generally decent stunt engines are OS20/25FP (ABN), and the 40/46FP (ABN) but those are not really competitive with the piped engines.

   Lauri makes his own engines, he is an exception to the caveat of production engines.

   The expectations are instant starts, proper tunability, repeatability, and, as Lauri mentions *run symmetry*. All of the competitive engines have capability to produce 2x to 10x the power you actually need to fly any practical stunt airplane, the issue is how to get them regulated in a way that makes the airplane easy to fly. All of the above have proven to be incredibly durable, I have been running the same Jett 61 since the 2007 team trials.

    In any of the examples above, castor in small amounts is probably OK, but both from the perspective of both oil drag and varnishing, it can be highly detrimental, to the point it won't run at all or quits unexpectedly.

   Another thing to remember  - all IC engines in stunt are arguably obsolete, anyway, so getting the run absolutely perfect to compete with electric is critical. I still think there are conditions in which IC might have some advantage. But most people have never had a decent stunt engine run in their entire lives, and even the "no-brainer" sport flying systems (like the "new" 25LA) are usually destroyed in short order by "stunt tribal knowledge" AKA bullsh*t, frequently before the first run.

     Brett

     

[Brian Hampton]

I would only add that the larger the engine, the more difference it seems to make.

That's logical. Oil is needed in the cylinder to have an oil film between the piston and liner. Surface area of the cylinder increases linearly but the volume of the cylinder increases by the square of its radius. IOW, the larger the engine the more oil is provided for lubrication.

[Brett Buck]

That's logical. Oil is needed in the cylinder to have an oil film between the piston and liner. Surface area of the cylinder increases linearly but the volume of the cylinder increases by the square of its radius. IOW, the larger the engine the more oil is provided for lubrication.

     I was considering a different mechanism, that is, the viscosity of the fuel going through the fuel lines and metering.

      Brett

[Brian Hampton]

.... Lubricin N-1..  I mentioned it’s known for a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces.  Seems to me an ideal lubricant would be a one-molecule thick layer on moving surfaces....

That's reminiscent of my mention in another topic of lanolin which has essentially the exact same properties as the Lubricin with both being a product of naturally occurring components.

[Lauri Malila]

Which is why I specifically advocated for Lubricin N-1 with castor oil-based fuels.
Incidentally, Lubricin N-1 isn’t “the thickest oil you can get.”  I mentioned it’s known for a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces.  Seems to me an ideal lubricant would be a one-molecule thick layer on moving surfaces, but what do I know?

You are correct of course, you found a solution to your problem.
But the secret of castor is not it’s superior slipperiness, for that here are better synthetic options. What makes castor unique ability to stay on high friction/temperature spots and even locally reinforcing the lubrication in those places by forming longer and longer molecule-chains. In same conditions the synthetic oil desintegrates.
That’s why it’s necessary in old engines made from materials with wrong expansion coefficients and with bad geometry/fits.
And you need a 3-molecule thick layer, 1 is not enough. L

[Dan McEntee]

  I have a full, one quart can of SIG Lubricin N-1 oil, with a price tag of $4.50 from the old Afton Hobby Shop in South St. Louis County. I think it was in Bob Arata's stuff when we cleared out his basement for his daughter. I've just kept it for the nostalgia and the cool can that it's in.

  What exactly is the oil additive that Randy Smith sold? I have a couple of bottles of that also and I think he called it Aero-One oil?? I just never think to add it to my fuel.

 Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[dennyleo]

  What exactly is the oil additive that Randy Smith sold? I have a couple of bottles of that also and I think he called it Aero-One oil?? I just never think to add it to my fuel.
 Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

Randy's additive is proprietary; he won't reveal its formulation.  But many here swear by it.

Dennis

[Brett Buck]

Randy's additive is proprietary; he won't reveal its formulation.  But many here swear by it.

    David uses it. I could never tell any difference with or without.

     Brett

[Lauri Malila]

    David uses it. I could never tell any difference with or without.

     Brett

 If you can't see a difference, try a little less in the mix. Maybe it's a homeopathic product..?

[Brett Buck]

If you can't see a difference, try a little less in the mix. Maybe it's a homeopathic product..?

  I *thought* about using it, that should be even better than a 10^6 dilution.  Taking the concept of "less is more" to it's absurd extreme.

    I don't want to tar Randy with the same brush - I have never seen anyone using Aero-1, whatever it is, seem to have any problems as a result. All of my list items above, I certainly *have* seen someone who caused a problem for themselves that was directly traceable to the secret sauce, many times, over and over.   There are tons of threads like that here, too. "I only got 13 appearance points, so I added 8 ounces of castor oil"

      Between this and carving up engines for similar secret super-duper modification they heard about somewhere, it is rare to see people who *don't* have problems any more. That's a sort of black hole of BS -  enough nonsense has accumulated to cause an implosion that sucks everything in.

     Brett

[Rusty]

Wouldn't you know it, that I had a Morgan Fuels, Omega 25% plastic jug split and leak in an air conditioned closet?  Luckily, I need some fuel and caught it before it leaked a lot.  Where the seam is on the handle it split.   I have about 12 gallons in there.  I checked the other 11 and they are fine.   It wasn't more than a few months ago, that the leaking one was fine.  I had an empty 1 gallon lacquer thinner can to put the leaked fuel in.    Those jugs are hazardous for sure.

[Dan McEntee]

Wouldn't you know it, that I had a Morgan Fuels, Omega 25% plastic jug split and leak in an air conditioned closet?  Luckily, I need some fuel and caught it before it leaked a lot.  Where the seam is on the handle it split.   I have about 12 gallons in there.  I checked the other 11 and they are fine.   It wasn't more than a few months ago, that the leaking one was fine.  I had an empty 1 gallon lacquer thinner can to put the leaked fuel in.    Those jugs are hazardous for sure.

    I think problems with jugs can be manufacturing defects, but also in how they are handled along the way. I've watch people toss jugs, drop them and whole cases onto hard pavement. Most wouldn't treat a metal can of anything that way. Truck drivers delivering cases just don't care one way or the other as long as it isn't leaking in his truck or when he delivers the case or cases. I think I have had one just leak on me in my history, at least that's all I can remember. It was still in it's 4 jugs cardboard case and that absorbed the oil as the methanol evaporated and surprisingly left very little mess on my basement floor! I keep anything that is not being used in the cardboard cases for that reason.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Brett Buck]

    I think problems with jugs can be manufacturing defects, but also in how they are handled along the way. I've watch people toss jugs, drop them and whole cases onto hard pavement. Most wouldn't treat a metal can of anything that way. Truck drivers delivering cases just don't care one way or the other as long as it isn't leaking in his truck or when he delivers the case or cases.

     I have had metal cans from unopened cardboard cases that show indications of being dropped to the point that one side of the can was a half and inch shorter than the other.

    Brett

[Dan McEntee]

     I have had metal cans from unopened cardboard cases that show indications of being dropped to the point that one side of the can was a half and inch shorter than the other.

    Brett

   Some truck drivers are over achievers!! I meant the way most modelers treat their fuel jugs for the most part, including while they are in the case boxes. I remember articles in the safety columns in the magazines encouraging people to get away from using cans when some lazy modelers didn't disconnect their glow clips from their power panels and when putting them in the back of their cars, the clip shorted against the cans and the rest can be imagined!!  Some people can mess up a two car funeral. If you gave them a cold 6 pack of beer and set them down at a bench and told them that was their job for the day, they would still screw something up and then complain about it!
     Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Dave_Trible]

     I have had metal cans from unopened cardboard cases that show indications of being dropped to the point that one side of the can was a half and inch shorter than the other.

    Brett

Coming from a long time in "Big Box" retail stores I will say most of that sort of damage comes from stacking pallets three or four high in the 18 wheel freight boxes for shipment.   Then the forklift operators jamming pallets in or running into them while unloading.   There is a pretty high loss rate for things like this.  (Both in product and freight handlers)

Dave

[Jim Svitko]

I have had plastic fuel jugs leak.  Mostly somewhere on a seam.  I used to keep fuel in the garage.  Maybe the temperature difference played a part in causing these plastic jugs to leak.  Below freezing in winter, and over 100F in summer.  Once I brought the fuel inside, no more leaks.

I also had one plastic jug of motor oil leak.  Just like the fuel jugs, a crack at a seam.  What a mess to clean up since I did not notice it until I saw a puddle of oil on the garage floor.  So, even though the plastic might not be able to resist fuel components for very long, I think the temperature difference was enough to contribute to the leaking of plastic jugs.

[Rusty]

    I think problems with jugs can be manufacturing defects, but also in how they are handled along the way. I've watch people toss jugs, drop them and whole cases onto hard pavement. Most wouldn't treat a metal can of anything that way. Truck drivers delivering cases just don't care one way or the other as long as it isn't leaking in his truck or when he delivers the case or cases. I think I have had one just leak on me in my history, at least that's all I can remember. It was still in it's 4 jugs cardboard case and that absorbed the oil as the methanol evaporated and surprisingly left very little mess on my basement floor! I keep anything that is not being used in the cardboard cases for that reason.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

I forgot to say the jugs are kept in factory card board boxes.

[Steve Thompson]

     I have had metal cans from unopened cardboard cases that show indications of being dropped to the point that one side of the can was a half and inch shorter than the other.

    Brett

Like this?

Measures out to 3/8" of smash.

Never has leaked a drop of SIG Thinner

[Brett Buck]

Like this?

Measures out to 3/8" of smash.

Never has leaked a drop of SIG Thinner

   Yes, very similar, including the bulge from hydraulic pressure.

   Interestingly, I have a lot of various cans of thinner with similar damage, same thing, no leaks. Klass-Kote thinner, either type, leaks/evaporates pretty quickly out of even intact cans.

      Brett