A Conservative estimate on a new stunter

[RC Storick]

1 3/4 spinner   34.95
PA .65          369.95
header           29.95
pipe             119.95
Phelps prop     40.00
dubro tank        5.95
fuel filter           3.95
air filter             6.95
LG                   29.95
wheels               5.00
Wheel pants       40.00
pipe mount          4.95
fuel line              5.00
bell crank          15.00
push rods approx   15.00
horns                20.00
hinges                5.00
Polly span          15.00
adjustable LO      4.95
-------------------
                      771.50

wood         100.00
paint        100.00

I am sure I have missed some things.

[Matt Colan]

It's always a lot of the little things the total cost for a new stunter up.  There are only 6 items on that list that are over $40, everything else is below.

[RC Storick]

I figure I am way low on wood and paint. This does not include any glue ,epoxy,resin,glass cloth, primer or fillet material.

So in my best guess you could easily have $1500 in material on a full blown ship. Not including labor which is free if you build it, but even that comes with a price.

[Matt Colan]

I figure I am way low on wood and paint. This does not include any glue ,epoxy,resin,glass cloth, primer or fillet material.

So in my best guess you could easily have $1500 in material on a full blown ship.

I think with wood, you are just about there, I priced wood for USA-1 that I was going to build and came to around $100.  my grandfather spent about $100 of wood on his P-47, a mid size stunter.

Also it kind of matters how big a plane you're building, right?

[RC Storick]

I think with wood, you are just about there, I priced wood for USA-1 that I was going to build and came to around $100.  my grandfather spent about $100 of wood on his P-47, a mid size stunter.

Also it kind of matters how big a plane you're building, right?

It matters on what your willing to pay for great wood. The paint I know I am low on, Lets see. I use Wicks paint (Randolph dope) 1 quart of clear is 14.95, 1 quart of white is 19.95 red ,black,blue etc.. Gal of thinner is 26.95. I use Urethane its 19.95 a quart and 14.95 for activator. So depending on the color scheme you choose with sandpaper and tape you could have 3-400 dollars wrapped up in paint. Sand paper at a dollar a sheet and 3 M tape at 6.95 a roll it adds up quick. Not including the regular masking tape.

[bob branch]

Anyone picked up on  another reason people are buying arfs yet?

$

bob

[RC Storick]

Anyone picked up on  another reason people are buying arfs yet?

$

bob

Buy away just don't expect appearance points.

[Paul Smith]

** Sandpaper

*** Masking tape.

********Wife appeasement costs.

[Randy Powell]

My costs are somewhat cheaper since I make a lot of that stuff, but it's still not cheap. Engines and paint you can amortize overmultiple planes, I guess. For instance, the 40VF I'm using in the new plane had been sitting in the drawer. It's been in several planes. the original purchase cost (about $125) is spread over at least 4 planes right now.

I make my own bell cranks, landing gears, wheel pants and such so the cost is a lot less, though I do it because enjoy it. The cost savings is a nice side benefit. I buy sandpaper in bulk and tend to look for deals on other stuff.

[Bob Reeves]

Buy away just don't expect appearance points.

Not really true... We are using Marvin's sliding scale AP system in Tulsa and so far it has been received well.

[RC Storick]

Not really true... We are using Marvin's sliding scale AP system in Tulsa and so far it has been received well.

Its true at the only contest that requires it the NATS. Thats the only contest I hope never changes. Elsewhere in the country they can do as they wish. It would not be worth a weeks time off and 1 thousand dollars to go look at ARF'S.

[FLOYD CARTER]

If you want to really spend some money on a hobby, try golf, or  tennis.  Greens fees, club memberships, and zoot equipment can set you back a lot!  And these hobbies leave you with nothing to do on a cold, rainy day except watch the TV sports channels.

Floyd

[Larry Cunningham]

I'm disconnected, I suppose. I typically expect to spend about $200 total on the model, and the engine, muffler, tank, prop and spinner are beyond that. I've always been a cheap bastard I suppose; at one point I was saving my balsa dust..

But such things as gear and wheel pants, I just make myself, electra lite wheels, 1/8" music wire, balsa. I guess I am also ignoring thin CA which I buy in a large bottle and use blood pipettes, and of course 30 minute and slow epoxies, and epoxolite. I make my own custom control horns, expocranks, control rods (years ago I got a huge supply of fiberglass arrowshafts and a couple of square feet of scrap aluminum sheet as well as 1' square samples of 1/8" nylon, PVC, and other plastic sheets), and cut out my own 1/8 aluminum New Mexico Universal Engine Mount Pads. I have hundreds of items like 4-40 bolts and blind nuts, as well as assortments of small hardware that I have left over, when I would buy 10 or 50 or 100 when I needed one. (This is why my garage and storage are full of stuff too..)

Also, I have probably four dozen sheets of medium and heavy silkspan on hand, a box of 1/8" OD brass tubing, etc. As well as stockpiled sandpaper, nitrate dope, clear butyrate, and on.

So, maybe if I counted all the supplies I keep on hand and actually use, my true costs are more. But nowhere in the rarified air where you guys are. But, then of course, I don't have the quality piped and 4S engines you do.

However, there is one thing I have learned about this hobby (and any worth having), that it does not need to be justified on a financial basis. That goes for motorcycles, guns, etc. right down to watercolor painting supplies.

L.

"There's no problem that you can't add some guilt to it and make it even worse." -Calvin and Hobbes

[Bradley Walker]

Its true at the only contest that requires it the NATS. Thats the only contest I hope never changes. Elsewhere in the country they can do as they wish. It would not be worth a weeks time off and 1 thousand dollars to go look at ARF'S.

Yah, like that USA Team Trials contest they have in Muncie every year... all ARF's...

We should boycott those stupid World Championships too.

[Shultzie]

Yah, like that USA Team Trials contest they have in Muncie every year... all ARF's...

We should boycott those stupid World Championships too.

 
OOOOPS! Here we go again? IS CLPA "A BEAUTY EVENT...OR A FLYING EVENT?"

Until we can BEGIN to wrap our heads around the ages old question? Is this  a beauty contest and flying contest?
...(like oil and water...never seem to mix just right in my krawwwwwww?

So until we make Donnie Shultz,Teeegurrr' Woods or Kinneee'Grippeee' make their own toy airplanes, sport-kites, golf clubs and baseball bats...I guess this conflict will forever rain-rein down on our heads?

[Bob Reeves]

No reason it can't be and stay both which is what I believe we are doing in Tulsa. Even a well done or recovered/painted ARF can be pretty.

[john e. holliday]

I see Bradley has forgotten there is no BOM in FAI competition.  I think Robert is trying to show what he spends trying to make the ultimate stunt plane for his self.  Some of us reuse a lot of stuff from the planes we construct.  I have a Fox .35 Stunt that has been in at least 6 different planes.  I like to build and fly.  When I have a good engine it usually goes in the new plane.  In the past I tried to keep track of what I was spending.  Then it hit me, what if the wife found the list.  Having fun.  DOC Holliday

[James Mills]

Bob,

Doc made a good point about our wives finding the cost list so if you make if down for the clinic in May no tabulating when Beth is within ear shot and I just got a new compound bow for next season and don't want her comparing to much .

James

[mike hartung]

What a bunch of wimps; try full scale planes and really watch the MONEY GO, gas @$5.00/gal, hanger rent @$150.00/mon., AD's at annual inspection time ( the sky is truly the limit$$$$$$).  Its hard to to think that you work all your life and then in the last two decades you find you simple can't afford to do the things you want. Makes models look really good; so back to my roots.

[Randy Powell]

>>Give or take, this is not a cheap hobby...<<

Compared to what? The RC guys I know spend a lot more than this. Trust me, the horse people and car racing people I know (even hobbyists) spend a ton more. As hobbies, pastimes or whateven you want to call this go, it's pretty cheap compared to other activities one might engage in. My son and I, back in the day, played competitive Magic. We went to tournaments and such pretty regularly. We each easily had $1500 just in the cards in our tournament decks. That's not even touching the thousands and thousands of cards in our compete sets and tournament stock. Then there was travel to tournaments, entry fees, etc. Even then it wasn't horrible compared to other things we might have done.

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

[Peter Ferguson]

In general model airplanes is a cheap hobby RC or CL. Anything to do with competition is expensive compared to sport events. I know a Wakefield guy who was tallying his expenses. You wouldn't think it was much to fly a rubber powered model unless you bought rubber like fine wines (parelli 96 etc), titanium thinwall tubes from the Ukraine, heaters for the rubber, 2 weather setups for tracking thermals, a computer and something to haul this stuff to the desert.
I like CL, I sold one of my IMAC 28-10 3 blade carbon props and bought a new Strega and some accessories. What a bargain.

[Leo Mehl]

My7 Hobbies used to be women and booze. I think modeling is way lot cheaper?

[RC Storick]

Yah, like that USA Team Trials contest they have in Muncie every year... all ARF's...

We should boycott those stupid World Championships too.

Really? Ted,Brett,Matt,Billy,Bob,David,Howard and a bunch more.Which of those guys is flying a ARF?

There just is no argument.

[RC Storick]

Until we can BEGIN to wrap our heads around the ages old question? Is this  a beauty contest and flying contest?
...(like oil and water...never seem to mix just right in my krawwwwwww?

This is a modeling contest which includes Building and flying. Not just flying or not just building. Its a all out modeling contest. National Aero Modeling Contest. If someone wants to fly FAI we have that too.

[John Stiles]

That's why I make many of my own parts........my Veteran's pension doesn't allow for much flair.....but I'd certainly pay more for better balsa and plywood!

[Matt Colan]

Really? Ted,Brett,Matt,Billy,Bob,David,Howard and a bunch more.Which of those guys is flying a ARF?

There just is no argument.

And others at the Worlds build there own planes.  No ARFS!

[jim gilmore]

While you call it a conservative estimate you are using 1 very expensive engine I think ?

[Larry Cunningham]

If you are cool about it, the shock of the cost of balsa (etc.) is easily handled with the wife. Use my technique.

Carrying in about $60 worth of balsa, I looked at my wife and said, "it's ridiculous how little balsa $20 buys any more.." and shook my head. (I didn't say THIS was $20 worth of balsa.. ;-> )

L.

"There is an art of reading, as well as an art of thinking, and an art of writing." -Isaac Disraeli

[RC Storick]

While you call it a conservative estimate you are using 1 very expensive engine I think ?

Back in the day I had a mcgas .40 then supertiger.60's. The thing is, I use what works best for me. The PA is the strongest engine out there for the weight. Hi quality comes with a price (Buy American).

[Bradley Walker]

I see Bradley has forgotten there is no BOM in FAI competition. 

No.  I understand that completely.  I was being sarcastic.

Of course, the Team Trials (people drive from all over the country to compete at that contest) and Worlds  (people travel from all over the world for that contest) have no BOM, and they certainly are not dominated by ARF's...

[Jim Pollock]

Ty,

If you buy just one set of clubs and you never hit any balls into the woods or water hazards, then I think golf is actually cheaper that model planes.  Trouble is that my balls find all the woods and water hazards which evens things out between the two.

Hope all you landings are happy ones with the new planes!

Jim Pollock   

[Dan Labine]

I fish, golf, snowmobile, ski, sail and play numerous sports. Control line flying and building is by far the least expensive. My tackle box is conservatively estimated at over $2000. My rods and reels easily top that. The boat, downriggers and trailering are costs I try to forget. Snowmobiling is a 2-3 month exercise that cost me over $2500 in insurance, trail passes and gas. A new machine costs over $10000. Golf last year cost me $3500. I didn't ski this year but lift tickets are ~$45.00 per day. I usually have to travel to the Rockies to get hills worth skiing.

With the economy the way it is I have lost my job after 34 years and am now retired. Of all the hobbies I have, CL will probably be the last one I give up.

I spent ~$2000 on control line last year. I now have enough kits(35) and engines(24) to last me a lifetime.
This is an inexpensive hobby which I can do 365 days a year. I love it..

Dan

[Jim Kraft]

Try R/C IMAC competition. Around $6,000 to $7,000 for a competitive plane.

I have been very fortunate to have had a very good R/C pattern flying friend that quit flying about 15 years ago. He called me one day and told me to come over and pick up some balsa he had left over. I ended up with the back of my van clear full of contest balsa, all weighed, marked, and graded. I have given some away and still have more than I will use in my lifetime. The only thing is I can not justify ever buying a kit again. But then I like to scratch build so much that I built very few kits before I had this stash.

[Randy Powell]

Jim,

Yea, isn't that interesting? I have 4 kits under my bench. Pretty good ones, too. But I never seem to build them. I keep telling myself I will, but I haven't yet. Instead there's some new idea I want to try or some new bird I've drawn that I think will be good. And the kit's just don't get built. I suspect they will since my balsa stash is getting a bit low and no money to buy more right now, but still...

[Brett Buck]

And others at the Worlds build there own planes.  No ARFS!

  Not quite. The *winners* and most of the highly competitive guys build their own, but in the field there are quite a few RTFs from Yatsenko, etc. The Yatsenko airplanes are highly competive and there's doubt in my mind that if the likely winners chose to fly one they would have a chance of winning.

    Brett

[jim gilmore]

Mr. James Mills, So you also shoot a compound bow. How many lbs and what bow. I doo not mean to jack the thread..

[Jim Pollock]

Brett,

So, you are saying that Orestes Hernandez doesn't have a chance of winning the Nats?  Really, he's flying a Yasentko simi-arf Shark!   

Jim Pollock, Nuff said about arfs!

[Paul Smith]

Ty,

If you buy just one set of clubs and you never hit any balls into the woods or water hazards, then I think golf is actually cheaper that model planes.  Trouble is that my balls find all the woods and water hazards which evens things out between the two.

Hope all you landings are happy ones with the new planes!

Jim Pollock   

I play golf and fly model airplanes.  Golf is infinately less expensive.

I don't buy golf balls, I find them in the woods and cricks. 
I never find glow plugs, props, engines, or gallons of fuel, except at stores that take my money.

You can lose a golf ball, take a 2-stroke penalty, and still win the match.
If you crash a stunter, you've lost the contest, a winter's work, and maybe the remainder of the season.

I like both sports, but unless you golf at Palm Springs, modeling costs a lot more.

[Bradley Walker]

Golf is infinately less expensive.

Greens fees?  Last time I checked, flying at the local flying field is free.  Golf is cheaper than CL is you are chipping in your yard, I suppose.  If you actually go to play, at $20 to $80 bucks a pop (depending on when and where you play) I do not think you can make any comparison at all.

You can fly every day for free.

Of course, frisbee golf *IS* cheaper.  It might be the cheapest sport on the planet.

[Larrys4227]

Nobody has even mentioned the clothing-factor to play golf.  Geez, ya gotta drop a small fortune just to LOOK like your playing golf. I've got 2 sets of clubs that have balsa dust all over them ....  I love the game, but cant justify it. If I do wanna play, I grab a beer and pull out the Playstation .... :-)

FlySafe!  Larry (Larrys4227)

[Brett Buck]

So, you are saying that Orestes Hernandez doesn't have a chance of winning the Nats?  Really, he's flying a Yasentko simi-arf Shark! 

   Uh, that's precisely the opposite of what I said! I said the ARFs were highly competitive and could easily win in the WC if the guys who had a chance were using them. Yuri and Andrei, and Orestes, flew BOM versions of the same models and they do just fine.

    And, for the 1000th time, Orestes's airplane IS NOT AN ARF! Why is it that the competitors have no issue with it, and the guys watching from the sidelines seem to be obsessed with denigrating everything about it and Orestes' achievements. I've had about enough of hearing about it, Orestes earned everything he has gotten, period. If I of all people don't have an issue with it, you and everybody else with the same axe to grind don't really don't have any standing to say anything about it.

    Over the line, Jim.

     Brett

[John Stiles]

Mr. James Mills, So you also shoot a compound bow. How many lbs and what bow. I doo not mean to jack the thread..

I do too....killed two deer last october with it....it's a Martin Sabre.........I shoot 49lbs at 27" and 214fps! Uncle Ted turned me on to it!

[Paul Taylor]

Nobody has even mentioned the clothing-factor to play golf.  Geez, ya gotta drop a small fortune just to LOOK like your playing golf. I've got 2 sets of clubs that have balsa dust all over them ....  I love the game, but cant justify it. If I do wanna play, I grab a beer and pull out the Playstation .... :-)

FlySafe!  Larry (Larrys4227)

Larry you need to try http://ezeegolf.com/

[jim gilmore]

Robert Storick, If I  spell it wrong please excuse me.
Point taken on the PA. A conservative estimate is after all relative to what one is trying to accomplish. my shark 402 is the biggest I think I can get away with in my rv and have room to move about.Might be too big time will tell. One's goal determine size and needs for best engine or cheapest working engine also.
 Magic.. been trhere done that... still play magic just only the computer game by microprose .aand play it in seled deck mode.
Another example of where the guys with the bucks can afford the best stuff.

Still the bottom line isn't whats the cost... it's what does it give you back ?

[Phil Hawkins]

Hmmm...

My level of participation:

Sig Banshee kit    $40
eBay OS MAX 40  $40
CYA, epoxy         $10
Roll Monokote      $15
Rustoleum X2       $12
Hardware             $6
                         ___
                         $123
Notice I really splurged with TWO colors of Rustoleum...And I use sanding sealer for my substrate. The tank,wheels, props etc... all from the slightly used drawer, bought and paid for years ago... $0

My not be worth the effort to photograph, but fun all the same...

[Howard Rush]

I went to the World Championships last year.  There were some really nice airplanes, but most folks elected to save weight and build something functional.  Overall, the airplanes there were a lot less impressive that what you'd see at the US Nats or the NW Regionals.  Yes, there were ARFs. In fact, a European member of the FAI F2B Judging/Scoring Committee said that the plethora of eastern European ARFs is causing them to consider reinstating the BOM. 

I have flown a Yatsenko Shark in a stunt contest.  It flew well, and I did OK with it.   

[Larrys4227]

Larry you need to try http://ezeegolf.com/

Hahaha  ... I've never seen that!  Pretty cool, but I wonder if it will get me a discount on greens fees. :-)

FlySafe!  Larry (Larrys4227)

[Matt Colan]

Here is what I am spending on my Oriental Plus.

PA 40UL  $319.95

           ________

             $319.95

It is nice when you have a grandfather in this hobby/sport that buys all the other little stuff    Also Bill Hummel gave me the kit at a contest.  Thanks again Bill

[RC Storick]

Here is how I look at it. I know I have close to 2000 in my Thunderbolt. It gave me approx 200 hrs building fun and I know I have flown it another 200 hrs (time at the field). Thats five bucks a hour. Not bad entertainment money.
Plus I have something to show for it besides a hangover.

My cable TV is 90 a month. It brings me Internet and TV. So for 3 dollars a day I can watch TV and be here. Not bad. Its all relative to how you look at things.

[Bradley Walker]

In fact, a European member of the FAI F2B Judging/Scoring Committee said that the plethora of eastern European ARFs is causing them to consider reinstating the BOM. 

Begin holding breath...  1 2 3...now.