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Author Topic: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .  (Read 1285 times)

Offline Larry Fulwider

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If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« on: April 07, 2010, 12:58:44 PM »
. . . your engine will ??. If your prop is too small, your engine will ??

Someone published a list like this on one of the forums a while back, which I can’t find.

For non-piped “modern” engines – say, LAs, FPs, and Brodaks – what are the tell-tale “signs” of over-propping and under-propping?

   Larry Fulwider

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 05:13:19 PM »
I know I've seen it. Maybe it's with the article/discussion. Is your nose too long?
http://www.clstunt.com/noselong.htm

Offline Larry Fulwider

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Re: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 05:58:10 PM »
I know I've seen it. Maybe it's with the article/discussion. Is your nose too long?
http://www.clstunt.com/noselong.htm

Jim --

Close, but No; Leonard has the "your prop is too small" blurb there, but no mention of engine effects. I thought it was in Randy's lead-in here, but not there either.

OK, let's start from scratch, and make a new list. For example, too sharp a break is helped by a smaller / larger prop?

        Larry Fulwider

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2010, 06:16:25 PM »

Offline Larry Fulwider

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Re: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2010, 08:10:13 PM »
How about here http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=15595.0

Jim --

Thanks! Point 3! Don't see how I missed it before!

       Larry Fulwider

Online Brett Buck

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Re: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2010, 09:09:29 PM »
. . . your engine will ??. If your prop is too small, your engine will ??

Someone published a list like this on one of the forums a while back, which I can’t find.

For non-piped “modern” engines – say, LAs, FPs, and Brodaks – what are the tell-tale “signs” of over-propping and under-propping?


Underpropping - unable to get to top of circle
Overpropping - lose a lot of stunt contests but win the "static thrust bragging contest"

    THE single most important thing to know about prop selection on modern engines - *run the smallest prop that provides acceptable overhead/vertical performance*. The old conventional wisdom from 40 years ago about big props is just that - 40 years old. With current engines you can just let a smaller prop spin faster and get back the performance. Any bigger than the bare minimum creates a bunch of trim problems (and sorry, Leonard, running the CG back doesn't solve it).

     Brett

Offline richardhfcl

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Re: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2010, 07:49:06 AM »
Wasn't the old Army Air Corp. saying, "The bigger the watch, the smaller the prop.?"

'Hope that this is of help to you.
Richard Ferrell

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Offline Larry Fulwider

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Re: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2010, 12:51:13 PM »

Underpropping - unable to get to top of circle
Overpropping - lose a lot of stunt contests but win the "static thrust bragging contest"

    THE single most important thing to know about prop selection on modern engines - *run the smallest prop that provides acceptable overhead/vertical performance*.  . . .
 . . .

I don't think there is any conflict -- unless I'm missing something -- between what Brett is saying vs what Randy said in his prop advice? I think Randy's advice is useful in applying Brett's advice.
 
". . .
 . . . 3. Correct Props:
Props are also critical for achieving good engine runs; a prop needs to “load” the motor correctly without over or under loading the motor. It also needs to be the correct size and pitch to pull the airplane. This is an over simplication, but generally the diameter will be what you use to “load” the engine and the pitch will be what you pick to set the plane speed.
       Some of the things you will run into when over propping an engine are; hard to set the needle on the ground; the engine will unload a lot and go rich in the air; the engine will run hot, or not cycle very rapidly.
       When under propping generally you will notice the engine will also not cycle correctly. They at times will just 4 stroke thru everything, sometimes going into a 2 cycle at weird times.
       A properly loaded engine will use a prop that if running a 4-2 break, will come onto a 2 stroke a 10 O’clock and back to a 4 at 2 O’clock. There are variations on this; You can have a strong motor just beep 2 stroke at the tops of maneuvers, but you shouldn’t have one that 4 strokes uphill and switches to a 2 stroke on the downhill parts of maneuvers.  . . ."


     Larry Fulwider


Offline Randy Powell

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Re: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2010, 11:46:04 AM »
Larry,

Just as a side note: Paul Walker once told me about an experiment. He put a very small prop (like a 9x4 or something) on his Impact with a piped 61 (I think - could have been the OS40VF). He flew a complete pattern on a fairly calm day. While the plane didn't have a great deal of penetration or vertical performance and you sure wouldn't want to do it in wind, he said that it was the smoothest flight he'd had with the plane. It was amazing the trim problems that resolved when you didn't have a bit prop on the front. That sort of flight sticks with you. The point is much what Brett said. I use the smallest prop I can get away with and still get the vertical performance and ability to penetrate the wind.
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 Randy Powell

Offline phil c

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Re: If Your Prop is Too Big . . .
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 08:26:25 PM »
I've had some recent experience with this.  I'd been trying to fly the Giles VI(65 in. 695 sq.in. 46 oz.) with an la 40, stock muffler.  I ended up with a 10/4 APC and 25% nitro.  Any less nitro and the motor would overheat and/or not produce enough power(very weather sensitive).  Any larger prop would cause the same problems with trying to figure it out compounded by the weather problems.

Found an LA 46 at the hobby shop and said why the heck not.  Bolted it in place, with the stock muffler, and the same prop, 10/11/11 fuel and it ran like a top.  11,200 rpm in a fast 4 cycle with very little effect from the weather.  Just tweaked the prop pitch a bit to slow it down to a 5.2 lap(62.5 ft lines).  I tried an 11/3 APC to slow it down, but it just overheated while flying the same speed.  So, get the right prop the motor will run happily.  Overprop and it will tend to overheat and be hard to set, as mentioned above.
phil Cartier


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