Author Topic: Anybody using the Fox 40 Ball Bearing (Read 3724 times)

Chad Hossack · « **on:** March 07, 2011, 02:28:23 PM »

Hello,
I will be building a 66 inch classic stunter that will be flown just for fun, not competition, on calm days only, after years away from CL, just flying RC.

And I was wondering if anyone was using this ball bearing Fox engine and how you like it:

http://www.foxmanufacturing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=157&products_id=275

I had a Fox 35 years ago in a TF Nobler.

I wish not to spend 300 bucks on a blue printed high performance engine, but I like the thought of a ball bearing engine over a bushed one. I think the added bit of weight of the bearings is marginal over a bushed engine. I like ringed engines over ABC ( the Fox is ABC) as most of my RC engines over the last 30 years have been ringed. But I am not stuck on that either. I wish also to stick with a two stroke for this plane.

None of my LHS carry CL engines, so what ever I decide on, it will be mail order to Canada anyhow.

I am open to comments and opinions, and am not brand loyal, so if you think there is a better, more quality product on the market in this price range, please let me know and give me a few links to shop around with and check out what is available out there for the sport CL flier.

Thanks.............Chad.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2011, 03:20:15 PM »

Chad; I know there are some really good running ones out there, but most have been extensively reworked by Lew Woolard in Wichita Ks. If it were me, and I don't have one, I would go for the OS 46 LA engine. It is a sleeve bearing job, but all of them I have seen run well out of the box. It is about the same weight as the Fox, just slightly less. Maybe some others will chime in here that have run them.

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2011, 03:23:48 PM »

If you have a spare RC engine in the right size range you can fly it with the RC carb locked open. I've been running a LA40 this way for several years with good results. You might be able to save the price of an engine.

Garf · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2011, 12:07:16 PM »

I have an earlier version of this engine. It is a real powerhouse and requires rework to make it user friendly. I have found it too cantankerous for everyday flying. The MK-6 Combat Special is more predictable than the 40.

phil c · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2011, 07:22:03 PM »

The Deluxe 40 is a high power high rpm engine. Without mods you need to run it that way, kinda like the FP20. The 40 won't 4 cycle with a 10/6 prop at 9000 rpm. It needs to run at least 12,000 rpm on the ground, which means something like a 10-11/4 or even less pitch. You'll probably need to reduce the compression by opening up the head a bit and adding extra head shims.

Garf · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2011, 08:11:39 PM »

This got me thinking. I got my 40 out and installed a head spacer. I hope I didn't reduce the compression too much. It's now on my Tutor 2 and hopefully I'll try to fly it Sunday.

John Leidle · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2011, 12:30:52 PM »

I ran these BB Fox .40s a while & I agree W/ Jim use the LA .46 instead.
john

Garf · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:45:20 PM »

It's hard to beat the LA 46.

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2011, 10:11:27 AM »

I have a 1981 Fox 40 coffin case on a 38 special. The early ones were basically timed as high as the 36 combat engines. It's a thrill to fly with no tension worries anywhere in the circle. It is not however for the faint of heart. It is fast and furious in it's flying style and require an aggressive hand on the handle.
That said I love the critter and fly it semi regularly and enjoy the experience each and every time. It isn't an engine for serious stunt and I never expect any Fox 40 to ever measure up without some rework. using an 11 inch prop on these engines doesn't seem to help. If anything they tend to run hotter and can do a real lean runaway if your not careful. My experience only. Others may have had better results.
Dennis

dankar · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2011, 04:11:34 PM »

I bought the .40 compact and the .40 Deluxe years ago. Put then on a Noyes Challanger. The compact was not to bad and reasonable. The Deluxe was very erratic. I removed them and sold them as fast as possible. Plain and simple Fox pushes anything out the door. I gave them a chance and they did not even compare to my OS engines. An OS .40H was a sweet engine. Flight after flight for years. I still have three and rebilt another.
Dan

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2011, 06:50:04 PM »

Thanks very much for the informative replies guys from your experience.

I thought maybe this engine was just a deluxe version of the old Fox 35 stunt I had. Obviously it is ported completely different and not at all a good engine just for a little sport stunting fun.

Looks like everyone agrees the OS LA-S C/L is a affordable engine for my needs and I can order it from my LHS.

I don`t have my old Fox anymore, but I still have the battered box with the original owners manual and bill of sale inside . Check out the price tag...........lol.

Thanks..........Chad.

Bill Little · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2011, 08:05:02 PM »

HI Chad,

I have seen Lew Wollard's "Silver Foxx" .40's run, and they were absolutely outstanding stunt engines. Not sure of what retiming he does. But out of the box, they don't really like any type of run we tend to use in stunt.

An OS .46LA is your best bet in that size engine. There are high dollar ones available, that are perfect for stunt, but for good old everyday stunt use, the .46LA is a great choice. I would get the .46 and not the .40. Why? The .46 is lighter (same case), and seems to be a bit more friendly for our needs. And with a smaller venturi it will put out plenty of power, still, and I just cannot see a need for using the .40.

An OS .46LA in a Cobra would be a real nice set up.

Big Bear

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2011, 08:34:18 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on March 11, 2011, 08:05:02 PM

HI Chad,

I have seen Lew Wollard's "Silver Foxx" .40's run, and they were absolutely outstanding stunt engines. Not sure of what retiming he does. But out of the box, they don't really like any type of run we tend to use in stunt.

An OS .46LA is your best bet in that size engine. There are high dollar ones available, that are perfect for stunt, but for good old everyday stunt use, the .46LA is a great choice. I would get the .46 and not the .40. Why? The .46 is lighter (same case), and seems to be a bit more friendly for our needs. And with a smaller venturi it will put out plenty of power, still, and I just cannot see a need for using the .40.

An OS .46LA in a Cobra would be a real nice set up.

Big Bear

Don't worry about the LA40. It hasn't been made or sold for almost 4 years. You would have to buy a used one to get one. New of course is always preferred, you then know the history of the engine.
Dennis

Bill Little · « **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2011, 10:57:33 PM »

Quote from: dennis lipsett on March 11, 2011, 08:34:18 PM

Don't worry about the LA40. It hasn't been made or sold for almost 4 years. You would have to buy a used one to get one. New of course is always preferred, you then know the history of the engine.
Dennis

You're right, Dennis,

New is preferred, but budget means used (sometimes refurbished).

Big Bear

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2011, 11:19:36 AM »

There are still some LA40s about in the model shops here in UK. One dealer is currently selling them at nearly $40 less than the LA46. At that price differential, I might even buy one!

Regards,

Andrew.

YakNine · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2011, 12:46:41 PM »

How about a B40 ?

Bill Little · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2011, 01:04:38 PM »

Quote from: YakNine on March 12, 2011, 12:46:41 PM

How about a B40 ?

If you can find one, they are very good stunt engines. We only have one, but it runs great. I have no clue as to what "Series" it is, though.

Big Bear

Phil Bare · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2011, 06:30:30 PM »

Hi Chad, the Fox .40 Deluxe is a fine engine and will give lots of power. I run mine on FAI fuel and with one added head shim. I use 11x4 props and do not expect a 4-2 type run. Most all of Duke Foxs engines have rather high compression and need no or very little nitro. Learn how to run it and it will make you smile. Lou Wollard drops the sleeve by some amount to change the timing a bit but the engine will run well if used as I have suggested.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2011, 09:14:44 PM »

I read Chad's post, and I'm wondering what this 66" span Classic model is? It sounds like a really large plane, and maybe too large for any .40 or .46. The ST G.51 CL comes to mind, however. If Tower is out of stock, send me a PM!

It also sounds like Chad is in Canada...what part? Might be able to arrange some help on your side of the border.

Steve

Bill Little · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2011, 11:43:15 AM »

Quote from: Phil Bare on March 19, 2011, 06:30:30 PM

Hi Chad, the Fox .40 Deluxe is a fine engine and will give lots of power. I run mine on FAI fuel and with one added head shim. I use 11x4 props and do not expect a 4-2 type run. Most all of Duke Foxs engines have rather high compression and need no or very little nitro. Learn how to run it and it will make you smile. Lou Wollard drops the sleeve by some amount to change the timing a bit but the engine will run well if used as I have suggested.

HI Phil,

I hope all is well! It has been a while, you have to come to Huntersville. I'll even get a "roll out" for you if needed.

The .40 will run a nice "wet 2" as you describe, of course. You would have loved to have seen Tommy Luper's birds with the Lew Woolard Silver Foxx .40s. Man, those runs were as good as 4-2 get. The "Coffin Back" .40s came out when the 4-2 run was still "King", so a lot of guys just moved on to other engines. Kinda like the "big" GMA Fox .40 Stunt of around 1972. I really like that engine even if it is a bit heavier than I would really like. Runs like a Fox .35 on steroids.

Take care!
Bill <><

Robert Schroeder · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2011, 02:51:44 PM »

I have an older one with the same type of venturi. Fox fitted it for me. I bought it used and the threads turned out to be stripped for the muffler. I also had a different needle. At any rate, I haven't had a lot of luck with it, at least not yet, probably starter trouble

. The engine has not been modified. I do have a passel of modrtn Foxes stunt tuned by Byron Barker that run beautifully. I've not had to run faster than a fast 4 cycle yet though. Plenty of power and docile and tame. I also have a reworked new one like yours, but with a different needle that will go into a Commander when I get it finished. It's not been run yet but from my experience with the other ones, it should work well.

Bob

Phil Bare · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:56:34 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on March 20, 2011, 11:43:15 AM

HI Phil,

I hope all is well! It has been a while, you have to come to Huntersville. I'll even get a "roll out" for you if needed.

The .40 will run a nice "wet 2" as you describe, of course. You would have loved to have seen Tommy Luper's birds with the Lew Woolard Silver Foxx .40s. Man, those runs were as good as 4-2 get. The "Coffin Back" .40s came out when the 4-2 run was still "King", so a lot of guys just moved on to other engines. Kinda like the "big" GMA Fox .40 Stunt of around 1972. I really like that engine even if it is a bit heavier than I would really like. Runs like a Fox .35 on steroids.

Take care!
Bill <><

Hey ya Big Bear
I need to get to Huntersville and and hope to do that this next meet. I have the old stunt .40 and it really is a sweet engine, matter of fact, I have two of them. LOL. A friend and I
both bought 'coffin back' .40s when they were first introduced and were impressed with the power that they made. It took some trial and error 'experimenting' to sort out the run and understand that the engine needs to be decompressed a bit and to keep the nitro way down, the .45 is the same game and is as powerfull as any. Hope that you and yours are all doing well and look forward to seeing you again. Phil

Bill Little · « **Reply #22 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:37:40 PM »

Hi Phil,

My first '70 Fox .40 stunt was a gift. My buddy started to get heavy into R/C. For one of his first planes he cut off the top of the venturi stack and added a carb. Ran great, but I needed a .40 so he put the restrictor back into the venturi throat, and put the NVA back in. It runs great that way! LOL!! Later that same year I picked up a new one. it's still in the box, waiting to be broke in. What's 40 or so years of waiting? I used the old one in my Thunderbird II, and it was a good fit for that plane. I like 'em a lot. (of course, you can't just swap any other engine into the mounting holes.........

)

Big Bear

Michael Massey · « **Reply #23 on:** April 06, 2011, 12:31:33 AM »

I have to add my two cents, better yet, my two Fox 40's. After almost 9 hours engine run time on one, it finally runs sorta ok. The other has about 4 hours run time. I has very little needle valve adjustment tolerance. Tends to run too lean, or too rich. If rich, it richens further and quits when inverted. (I have a LOT of practice at inverted landings.) I put Randy Smith needle valves in both trying to "tame" the engine runs.

On the other hand, I have 4 OS 46 LA-S'. After 30 minutes to an hour run time, they are VERY reliable and run great. The only reason I still have the Fox's is that I can not in good conscience, sell them to someone who wants to use them in a stunter.

Bill Little · « **Reply #24 on:** April 07, 2011, 04:34:45 PM »

Quote from: Michael Massey on April 06, 2011, 12:31:33 AM

I have to add my two cents, better yet, my two Fox 40's. After almost 9 hours engine run time on one, it finally runs sorta ok. The other has about 4 hours run time. I has very little needle valve adjustment tolerance. Tends to run too lean, or too rich. If rich, it richens further and quits when inverted. (I have a LOT of practice at inverted landings.) I put Randy Smith needle valves in both trying to "tame" the engine runs.

On the other hand, I have 4 OS 46 LA-S'. After 30 minutes to an hour run time, they are VERY reliable and run great. The only reason I still have the Fox's is that I can not in good conscience, sell them to someone who wants to use them in a stunter.

Michael, I am guessing these are the ones with the tall 6 bolt back plate? Best thing for them is to have Lew Woolard put the "Silver Foxx" on them.

Those are some of the sweetest 4-2 engines i have ever seen.

Big Bear

Michael Massey · « **Reply #25 on:** April 07, 2011, 10:36:59 PM »

Hi Bill. You are correct. They both are. One is the BB and the other is the ABC BB. Do you happen to know how much Lew charges to do the mods.? From a practical point of view, I can get a new OS 46 for about 90 bucks including shipping. The Fox is about the same physical dimensions and weight as the OS 46 but remains a "40." I would like to see them run so all is not a total loss but it would not make sense to spend a lot more to fix them than a new motor.

Thanks, Mike

Jim z · « **Reply #26 on:** April 08, 2011, 02:07:07 PM »

Michael,
The last one I had lew rework for me was
$50.
Powerful, smooth, and great 4-2-4.
Well worth the money.

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #27 on:** April 09, 2011, 10:23:24 AM »

Quote from: Michael Massey on April 06, 2011, 12:31:33 AM

I have to add my two cents, better yet, my two Fox 40's. After almost 9 hours engine run time on one, it finally runs sorta ok. The other has about 4 hours run time. I has very little needle valve adjustment tolerance. Tends to run too lean, or too rich. If rich, it richens further and quits when inverted. (I have a LOT of practice at inverted landings.) I put Randy Smith needle valves in both trying to "tame" the engine runs.

On the other hand, I have 4 OS 46 LA-S'. After 30 minutes to an hour run time, they are VERY reliable and run great. The only reason I still have the Fox's is that I can not in good conscience, sell them to someone who wants to use them in a stunter.

Please dump the Fox needle valves. They are at best problimatic and at worst complete crap. Swap to a ST needle valve or best a PA valve assembly. You will at least be able to get reliable settings. A head gasket and 5% nitro fuel will also go a long way towards taming them. They really don't like to be over proped in stock form. As I've never had a reworked one I can't comment on them at all.
Dennis

Robert Schroeder · « **Reply #28 on:** April 14, 2011, 04:49:19 PM »

Rework is generally a timing change, hemi head, toung muffler and ST needle valve. Some fill in parts or all of various ports inside the case.
I've got reworked .40s, .45s and .46s. The .40 bushed standard and .46ABC are great running engines. I haven't run the .45 yet which is ringed.

Bob

Michael Massey · « **Reply #29 on:** April 14, 2011, 11:09:01 PM »

Thanks all for the feedback. One burning question. I keep hearing about the "timing change." Generally speaking, how is that done?

Tx. all, Mike

Bill Little · « **Reply #30 on:** April 14, 2011, 11:59:09 PM »

Quote from: Michael Massey on April 14, 2011, 11:09:01 PM

Thanks all for the feedback. One burning question. I keep hearing about the "timing change." Generally speaking, how is that done?

Tx. all, Mike

Hi Mike,

The intake ports on the sleeve are milled/ground at the top of their opening to reduce the "blowdown" (around 14* in a stunt engine, or less, generally) in the usual re-timing. Also, the sleeve can be "dropped" into the crankcase by milling the top of the case/bottom of the sleeve. Re-timing is not the hardest thing to do, but real easy to ruin the sleeve if one doesn't have the knowledge/ability/equipment. The easiest way to check the timing simply requires a degree wheel and shining a flashlight into the exhaust port, etc.. When you "see the light", you can tell that the ports are opening, and check the degrees of crankshaft rotation. Probably not the best description, but a condensed version.

On one of Bob Hunt's SFVM tapes Dean Pappas goes into how to check the timing and what needs to be done to change it to more of a "stunt timed" engine.

Big Bear

Michael Massey · « **Reply #31 on:** April 15, 2011, 10:51:57 PM »

Thanks!

Author Topic: Anybody using the Fox 40 Ball Bearing (Read 3724 times)

John Leidle