I have a Veco .19 BB that has been sitting around unused for ages.  When I first ran it on the bench it performed very poorly and so I just chucked it back in the box and left it.  I decided to have a closer look and have probably found why it didn't go so well.  the wear marks in the bore show that there are 2 sections of the wall that haven't been touched by the piston, so I can only assume that either the piston or barrel is drastically out of round.  That however was not my question.  I notice that the baffle on the piston seems to be very low compared to other engines.  It is only about 90 thou (3/32") high and about half of the transfer port is clearly visible when looking through the exhaust port, while in my plain bearing Veco .19 the baffle seems higher and completely obscures the transfer port when looking through the exhaust port.  I don't know anyone with another BB model Veco .19.  Does anyone know if this low baffle is a feature of these engines or have I just got a bum one.
Thanks    Charlie

Does anyone know if this low baffle is a feature of these engines or have I just got a bum one.

If the notch in the head that clears the baffle is equally short, then it's by design.  If not -- who knows?

I'll dig out a few of mine and check to see if the baffle is the same as yours.

The Veco .19BB was the strongest engine of the .19 size when they were new.  Very strong, and very loud!   They would fly a model the size of a Dolphin or Nobler pretty good for the day.  I used 10-4 wood props, and ran them in a strong 2 cycle.  Dave Fitzgerald and Ted Fancher were flying a Ringmaster with the Veco .19BB and cleaning up in OTS a while back.

  The Veco is about the only engine from that era that will run in the same ballpark with the 20FP. Not quite as much power but it's less unhappy with a 10" prop so you can get most of the difference back. It also came with a usable muffler, although it is prone to falling off or breaking in hard landings since it's held on with one bolt and a "dogbone" through the exhaust stack.

   Perfectly capable of flying Twisters/Banshees, etc, in fact, I think Jim McClellan won Junior with Banshee/Veco 19 with minor mods. The best of the bunch was apparently Bill Fitz's Dolphin.

    Brett

Don't you love that feeling?

Every once in a while, when I'm stuck on some problem, I stand back and ask myself "now what would I do if I were smart like (insert name here)"?.

Every once in a while, it actually works.

I kick myself because we flew these things through extremely good patterns and never really gave any thought as to whether we should be learning anything about what might work on our "pro stunt" class C ships...continuing to plug in the same old Foxes, McCoys and Max .35s. 

  Note that after hearing this story, and seeing the results of it from a local flier who was flying his Ringmaster with a 15FP, I just reproduced it. That's where the Skyray 35/20FP came from. I confirmed that the original observation was true - that the small, low-pitch/high rev powerplants yielded performance generally *much better* than these old crock Fox/McCoy 4-2 break motors.

    That when I keep reading the endless procession of posts about Foxes, McCoys, etc, and various threads about how to take current engines and make them run just like 40-year-old slag motors* my head just explodes.

       Brett

*Why in the name of God Almighty does a *beginner* need an aftermarket modified engine? The hot-shots run dead stockers, for the most part. Who needs a 46LA "modified for lucky best stunt run" that has less power than a McCoy 35 Red-head? Particularly when you have to pay $150 or more for the privilege.  Ay Carumba!

This may come as a surprise to you, Brett, but some people will turn their backs on you and not give you any advise at all unless you do things exactly the way they say.  It's like they can't tell the difference between "giving advise" and "ordering someone's life".  So if you're a beginner, and everyone at your field who will talk to you sets up their motor in one particular way, that's how you're going to set up your motor -- or you're going to be hoeing your row all alone for quite a while.

Tim,
Assuming your not a younger flyer when you start and have a few years of life experience you then make a  more informed decision. Do you listen to the local field hotshot who never enters any competition, who has been flying the same stuff since the 50's and has no idea of what is new or has changed in the hobby in the intervening years, and who would'nt change even if he had to. Or the guy who perhaps has contest wins under his belt, perhaps even a past national or current nats champ, is current with the latest state of affairs and has relevent,useful data for you to use. You can make your own decision.
I quote that past paragraph from actual experiences of people returning to the sport. Use your own judgement and make informed decisions, don't be led like a lamb to the slaughter.
Dennis

This may come as a surprise to you, Brett, but some people will turn their backs on you and not give you any advise at all unless you do things exactly the way they say.  It's like they can't tell the difference between "giving advise" and "ordering someone's life".  So if you're a beginner, and everyone at your field who will talk to you sets up their motor in one particular way, that's how you're going to set up your motor -- or you're going to be hoeing your row all alone for quite a while.

    Oh, I don't have any agenda, it's just frustrating. I provide complete details because I want anyone who wants to take advantage of my experience to exactly reproduce it, and that (as with everything else) the tiny details matter. I have long since lost count of the number of people who say " I tried it but it didn't work" and then find out that "well, of course I ditched that heavy muffler and I am using a Rev-Up 10-6 because thats a real stunt prop".

   I actually don't care very much about what people use, but it does frustrate me do see people doing stuff that completely disregards the vast steps forward we have made in the last 25 years or so, because *having good engines has utterly transformed the event*. Yes, I can make a stock Fox 35 work about as well as it can run, but I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone try it as a serious stunt motor, at least.

    Brett

addage , add simplicity and lightness .

Era's pre muffler & post muffler , unfortunately.

We have the tecnology ! we can reinvent the wheel !

If the plane doesnt fall on your head , and the lines stay tight , its a good start.
This involves the engine staying going.Bludge some fuel that isnt stale if it doesnt
when useing commercial fuel.
These stupid plastic Commie F2D models on 55 ft lines would get anyone with
hand / eye co-ordination the ability to complete the scedule , manouvre wise ,
at a lot less time and expense than anything else. They bounce .
Suction tank & a nylon prop .

Not every motorcyclist races , not every flyer competes .
Turkeys tried to steer us into RD350s to race .
The 61 T120 would hold them , in third gear .
About the same as top on the RD. That left you
the option of changeing into top.Depends on the track etc.

You use what you have , and make the best of it, not nessesary to run with the pack.
often you have what you have for good reason , and it pays to hang onto it.
One lesson from pommy bikes . DONT change anything , UNLESS your improveing it .
Though a bit of Loctite doesnt go amiss, and after 75 it was all pretty much downhill.

We dont nessesarilly need Concorde Era Tecnology, one can build a fair dinkum
1965 or whatever authentic brand new aeroplane.

Though the new fangled muffler doesnt impove anything.

Veco's are Still $ 69 Brand new and complete from Mecoa.
Second hand stuff , unless complete , is a good way to waste money.
There plenty of new engines to suit any pocket.IF youve got any nouse.

    Oh, I don't have any agenda, it's just frustrating. I provide complete details because I want anyone who wants to take advantage of my experience to exactly reproduce it, and that (as with everything else) the tiny details matter. I have long since lost count of the number of people who say " I tried it but it didn't work" and then find out that "well, of course I ditched that heavy muffler and I am using a Rev-Up 10-6 because thats a real stunt prop".

   I actually don't care very much about what people use, but it does frustrate me do see people doing stuff that completely disregards the vast steps forward we have made in the last 25 years or so, because *having good engines has utterly transformed the event*. Yes, I can make a stock Fox 35 work about as well as it can run, but I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone try it as a serious stunt motor, at least.

    Brett

HI Brett,

I have benefited from your, and so many of the top level fliers, knowledge and experiences over the years that it isn't funny!  The OS .20FP set up works as stated if everything is done "as stated".  I have seen several of them now and they all do the "right things".  I do see that there are many who move along and have never really experienced a real great engine run.  Even very accomplished local level fliers can fall into this group.  It is amazing once you have flown a set up that is working right and then you know what you are looking for, at least, from then on.  A "traditional" 4-2 run was great when that was all there was.  It still works, but it isn't as "easy" to get repeatable runs under varying conditions as a well set up "modern system".  I believe the OS .46LA has garnered so much of a following because it will run basically the same way every time if run in a wet 2 with a flatter pitch prop.  It is just so much easier to get a "usable" run with a flat pitch set up.  Even if it is missed slightly, a pretty decent flight can be made.  A traditional 4-2 will suffer a bunch if the setting is missed a little bit.  Then the flight is just made that much more difficult.

The good thing is, you guys will share what works for you, and the rest of us can simply follow the directions given.  Some just don't want to follow directions, unfortunately.  Not your fault for giving great, sound, directions though.  I may be dumb, but I ain't stupid.  I have enough sense that if the best do it a certain way, I just might ought to follow that lead.  I have neither the background, nor time, to invent a new wheel!  And when it comes to flying time, I need to maximize the time spent with practice and not engine run sorting.  I learned that way back with a certain OS .40VF set up.  It was really plug and play and I got more practice time during the flying time than ever before!  Keep on giving out the information that works.  Many of us really appreciate it.

Bill