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Author Topic: Another question about....  (Read 1373 times)

Offline Jim Pollock

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Another question about....
« on: January 16, 2010, 10:24:33 PM »
OK Guys,

Now it's time to mix up the questions.  Next is what was the worst plane that actually won the Nats???
And no, no, no you can't say Checkalaroma...... You know the one that won in 46,47,48......... It was a clark Y airfoil airplane and I don't think it was flown inverted?

My pick would be.......well, lets see...... The, oh, fuey, the Gobbleswantz......   %^@
Another I would pick second to the gobbler would be.......gosh....The stock Nobler   VD~

Anyone else have an idea?????

Jim Pollock   S?P

Offline Trostle

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Re: Another question about....
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2010, 02:28:03 PM »

(Clip)

And no, no, no you can't say Checkalaroma...... You know the one that won in 46,47,48......... It was a clark Y airfoil airplane and I don't think it was flown inverted?

My pick would be.......well, lets see...... The, oh, fuey, the Gobbleswantz......   %^@
Another I would pick second to the gobbler would be.......gosh....The stock Nobler   VD~

(Clip)

Jim Pollock   S?P

Jim,

Maybe I am reading your post wrong, but the Checklaroma flown by the Junior Davie Slagle and won the Walker cup those three years did have a symmetrical airfoil.  Bill Netzeband built won based on the plans published in the April 1947 issue of Air Trails and flew it in OTS at least once at a VSC several years ago.  By most standards, it could be said that it was perforamance challenged.  I think Bill's model is now in the AMA museum.

The "Junkers Gobleswantz" is a Charles Macky twin boom design that won the Nats around 1958 flown by Bob Randall.  Lou Wolgast competed with one in the Southwest in Classic for several years.  By all accounts and its ability, it is a "nice" perfoming airplane as are all of Mackey's designs.

I think it wouild be difficult and somewhat meaningless to compare the generally poorer performance of airplanes prior to the mid 50's to those after that period.
 
Keith

(Edit for typo)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 04:33:53 PM by Trostle »

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Another question about....
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 07:22:43 PM »
OK Guys,

Now it's time to mix up the questions.  Next is what was the worst plane that actually won the Nats???

Jim Pollock   S?P

Oh, I see some arguing comming on this post.
-Clint-

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Finding new and innovated ways to screw up the pattern since 1993

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Another question about....
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 09:06:06 AM »
To me the Nobler was not the most glamorous of stunt planes, but look at its record across the nation.  I have had four of them and the ARF is still in the shop.  There were/are so many that built the Nobler and improved the flying ability with it.  Also I think any model that won a NATS had to be a great flying plane in the hands of the pilot.  I know of one designer that would not give out or sell his plans as he didn't want someone messing the build up and then telling every one what a horrific desing it was.   Did talk to a fellow modeler this past weekend that is building a Rabe Mustang.  Stated he talked to Al quite abit before Al would sell him the kit.  He also had to buy the videos and the construction photos.  He said it was well worth the money. 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Another question about....
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 08:19:26 AM »
I agree with Keith. Comparing airplanes before the mid '50s is useless since airplanes advanced rapidly in the Classic era.

Opinions on airplanes that won the Nats is probably more about what you like esthetically than on the performance of the airplane. Let's use the "Nobler" as an example. I personally feel that it is ugly, but that takes absolutely nothing from its record. The "Nobler's"  performance was obviously very good in its era.

You might not like the "Gobbleswantz" but Bob Randall obviously beat some good competition to win with it. I saw Lou Wolgast fly his "Gobbleswantz". It flew very well in Lou's hands. A person might like or not like boom type airplanes, but that doen't mean they do not fly well.

I had a "Carousel", also designed by Charles Mackey. The "Carousel" also has a very good record. I messed up the controls, so mine could have been better, but the airplane had absolutely no bad tendencies. This brings up the next point. An airplane's performance is subject to the builder. Even the designer cannot produce identical airplanes. And, a good builder cannot produce a perfect airplane every time.

I have seen some very good "Impacts" and some poor ones. The poor ones certainly do not take away from the design.

In short, while some Nats winning airplanes might be a little better than others, they are all good airplanes that were in the hands of an exceptionally good, well practiced flyer.

The picture is of Lou and me at VSC IX


« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 07:30:05 AM by Tom Niebuhr »
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Offline John Sunderland

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Re: Another question about....
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 09:07:29 PM »
I have always been confused about this. Maybe somebody of Sr. position in this crowd could shed some light here.
The beloved Fox characteristic seemed to carry the Nobleresque/ Palmer models for nearly 20 years. At the end of that era in 69'.....OS 35S, McCoy 40, Tigre 46s...had the power to make a big size impression. Had size been refined instead of what seems simply increased. Back in 62 if a Veco 45 with a NEW sleeve could have swung an 11/4 on an airplane a little smiggen smaller than the Shark.....whoa ho. Seems to me like decades of baby steps. Rules often hampered possible gains.

I love all these Classics, but it just seems that size happened before adequate power. Crap flying conditions were negated a bit, and greater field presence was gained. But I would still put an even bigger motor in a USA-1, Shark, Eclipse, what have you. Of course, I was in the field out back flogging a hot Mc Coy on a Ringmaster about then. No disrespect intended here but, everyone could tell the Sea Fury's were massive compared to Gieseke's Noblers and danged sure must have had some grunt...Tigre 60s had some poopby comparison in those days. After all it hauled 11 pounds or more of fiberglass, radio and symmetrical foam core wings not unlike stunt ships...very fast. The RC Pattern crowd was schneurling all over the countryside.

I hope we give some of this new technology coming along some time to develop before we make any hard and fast rules for the entire stunt community. In the long run I bet that the majority of us would find that medium sized and over powered is as good as it gets for seven minutes in the circle. Oddly enough, I dont think we are going backwards here anymore, but this bigger is better deal should really only have gone so far. Maybe now it has




Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Another question about....
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2010, 01:32:18 PM »
I agree with Keith. Comparing airplanes before the mid '50s is useless since airplanes advanced rapidly in the Classic era.

Opinions on airplanes that won the Nats is probably more about what you like esthetically than on the performance of the airplane. Let's use the "Nobler" as an example. I personally feel that it is ugly, but that takes absolutely nothing from its record. The "Nobler's"  performance was obviously very good in its era.

You might not like the "Gobbleswantz" but Bob Randall obviously beat some good competition to win with it. I saw Lou Wolgast fly his "Gobbleswantz". It flew very well in Lou's hands. A person might like or not like boom type airplanes, but that doen't mean they do not fly well.

I had a "Carousel", also designed by Charles Mackey. The "Carousel" also has a very good record. I messed up the controls, so mine could have been better, but the airplane had absolutely no bad tendencies. This brings up the next point. An airplane's performance is subject to the builder. Even the designer cannot produce identical airplanes. And, a good builder cannot produce a perfect airplane every time.

I have seen some very good "Impacts" and some poor ones. The poor ones certainly do not take away from the design.

In short, while some Nats winning airplanes might be a little better than others, they are all good airplanes that were in the hands of an exceptionally good, well practiced flyer.

The picture is of Lou and me at VSC IX

Oddly enough, Lou's "Gobbleswantz" sits in my shop, awaiting an engine transplant (and tailweight reduction). Likely, a Magnum XL .53 will replace the ST .60. And I have a set of plans, and would use the Magnum in it. But maybe a ST G.51.  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


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