Author Topic: sneak preview (Read 5017 times)

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2011, 08:13:06 PM »

Very nice Bill. I guess the price of poker just went up. Keep us informed.
Wayne

bill bischoff · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2011, 08:19:43 PM »

Here's the slider, based on a design I featured in a previous post. I figured out a way to be able to install the wire frame AFTER the wing is covered and finished.

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2011, 04:16:54 AM »

Bill, is there any chance for plans or a kit in the future?
Wayne

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2011, 12:42:23 PM »

I like it!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2011, 04:08:15 PM »

Very nice Bill! What are the dimensions and power?

bill bischoff · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:43:18 PM »

This is another 36 profile carrier. Other than the wing, it's the same as my green Zero from last fall. This wing is a "scale" wing. I blew up a Zero 32 3 view to the maximum allowable wingspan for Class II carrier, which is 44". I plan to eventually build one for Class II, but thought I'd try out the wing first. The sizes and moments of my existing profile Zero are surprisingly close to scale already, so what the heck. I'm actually building two profiles, more or less concurrently. The other one will have the same span, but the last rib bay will be cut off and replaced with big rounded tips, ala Model 52. This planes also allow me to try out my newest slider design.

The Model 32 wing is about 360 sq. in, and the Model 52 will be about 355. 12% symmetrical root, 15% symmetrical tip. I designed the wing structure, Tom Niebuhr of Blue Sky Models did the CAD, and George Hamby of Bluegrass Unique Model Products (the fuselage jig guy) did the laser cutting. Once the models are finished and flown, I hope to have plans and a wing short kit available if there's sufficient interest.

bill bischoff · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2011, 04:41:03 PM »

The base color is on the new Zero. After several test batches of old Hobbypoxy didn't cure properly, I broke down and bought some brand new Klasskote. I've used lots of Hobbypoxy and Superpoxy in the past, but this was my first experience with Klasskote. It went on very nicely. I gave the mixed paint a 45 minute "induction" period before thinning and spraying, as per the instructions. I used equal parts paint, catalyst, and reducer, and this seemed just about right.

BTW, does anybody need about 200 cans of old epoxy paint?

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2011, 08:52:26 PM »

Quote from: bill bischoff on May 09, 2011, 08:43:18 PM

This is another 36 profile carrier. Other than the wing, it's the same as my green Zero from last fall. This wing is a "scale" wing. I blew up a Zero 32 3 view to the maximum allowable wingspan for Class II carrier, which is 44". I plan to eventually build one for Class II, but thought I'd try out the wing first. The sizes and moments of my existing profile Zero are surprisingly close to scale already, so what the heck. I'm actually building two profiles, more or less concurrently. The other one will have the same span, but the last rib bay will be cut off and replaced with big rounded tips, ala Model 52. This planes also allow me to try out my newest slider design.

The Model 32 wing is about 360 sq. in, and the Model 52 will be about 355. 12% symmetrical root, 15% symmetrical tip. I designed the wing structure, Tom Niebuhr of Blue Sky Models did the CAD, and George Hamby of Bluegrass Unique Model Products (the fuselage jig guy) did the laser cutting. Once the models are finished and flown, I hope to have plans and a wing short kit available if there's sufficient interest.

Seriously, put me down for plans and a shortkit. Thanks for the update.
Wayne

wwwarbird · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2011, 09:02:25 PM »

I've never used an epoxy paint. Everything I've ever heard about Klasskote has been positive. When I hear the words "epoxy" and "catalyst" etc., I think of something that is eventually going to cure up hard, like epoxy glue. Assuming this to be the case I've always wondered, if you spray this stuff how do you clean your equipment thoroughly enough that it's not a problem?

bill bischoff · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2011, 09:45:36 PM »

It's no big deal. Unlike epoxy glue, epoxy paint doesn't harden in a matter of minutes. There is plenty of time for a thorough cleaning. My clean up procedure is the same after any kind of paint. After spraying some thinner through it, I always "field strip" the spray gun or airbrush and clean the individual parts, getting down to Q-tips and toothbrush level as required. After reassembly I'll spray a bit more thinner. Cheap automotive lacquer thinner is good enough, and usually works on dope AND epoxy paint.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #11 on:** June 29, 2011, 05:55:29 PM »

Thanks Bill, I'm curious about some of this, I've just never asked the questions.

-Is there any point where it starts to cure and gets noticably "gooey" like epoxy?

-If so, how long from the initial catalyst mixing point is that?

-How long before you would just not be able to clean your equipment?

-What is the total time from spraying for complete drying/curing?

bill bischoff · « **Reply #12 on:** June 29, 2011, 08:01:03 PM »

I may not have good answers for some of these questions, since in normal practice they are largely non-issues. The paint may start to get gooey after 8-12 hours. I don't really know. I know that after a day the leftover paint in the mixing cup turns into a rubbery lump. Leftover mixed paint lasts for days in the fridge, weeks in the freezer.

The paint should be given 30-45 minutes for the chemical reaction to start working before it is thinned or sprayed. Typically the first thing I will do is mix the paint, then do the masking, break out the spray gun, fire up the compressor, etc. This is usually more than enough time, but I never worry about waiting too long.

After painting, there is no urgency to get the gun cleaned up quickly before the paint hardens. I wouldn't wait until tomorrow, but there's no reason to feel like the clock is ticking.

According to the Klasskote web page, a full cure takes several days. You can handle or mask after 24 hours. The paint is dust free in 15-20 minutes, fingerprint free in 4-5 hours.

Don't be worried about it being "epoxy". Think of it like Imron or any other catalyzed car paint. (Except it probably won't kill you as quick as Imron!) Your normal painting routines will be fine.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:08:29 PM »

Quote from: bill bischoff on June 29, 2011, 08:01:03 PM

I may not have good answers for some of these questions, since in normal practice they are largely non-issues. The paint may start to get gooey after 8-12 hours. I don't really know. I know that after a day the leftover paint in the mixing cup turns into a rubbery lump. Leftover mixed paint lasts for days in the fridge, weeks in the freezer.

The paint should be given 30-45 minutes for the chemical reaction to start working before it is thinned or sprayed. Typically the first thing I will do is mix the paint, then do the masking, break out the spray gun, fire up the compressor, etc. This is usually more than enough time, but I never worry about waiting too long.

After painting, there is no urgency to get the gun cleaned up quickly before the paint hardens. I wouldn't wait until tomorrow, but there's no reason to feel like the clock is ticking.

According to the Klasskote web page, a full cure takes several days. You can handle or mask after 24 hours. The paint is dust free in 15-20 minutes, fingerprint free in 4-5 hours.

Don't be worried about it being "epoxy". Think of it like Imron or any other catalyzed car paint. (Except it probably won't kill you as quick as Imron!) Your normal painting routines will be fine.

Thanks Bill, that's all very interesting and exactly the info I was looking for. It does all sound like it's no big deal other than longer drying times for the finished product. It does sound really odd to me to keep any paint in the fridge, and especially the freezer. I would expect moisture to be a potential issue coming out of the freezer, but apparently it's not. Hmmm.

bill bischoff · « **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:41:21 PM »

You only need to do this with already catalyzed paint you want to keep for repairs or touch ups later on. The cold slows down the curing process, just as heat speeds it up. If the paint is well sealed, and allowed to reach room temperature before you open it, it seems to not bother it. Same is true when you take CA out of the fridge.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #15 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:46:43 PM »

I knew that about CA but haven't ever heard that about paint.

Lern sumthin' evrry day!

bill bischoff · « **Reply #16 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:19:58 PM »

One more color to go!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #17 on:** June 30, 2011, 09:59:02 PM »

Looks great so far Bill!

bill bischoff · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2011, 01:33:17 PM »

Painting is done, now time to add all the bits...

skyshark58 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2011, 02:52:43 PM »

How did ypu like the Klasskote? Mike

wwwarbird · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2011, 05:36:17 PM »

That's really nice Bill, another beauty.

I'll PM you with my ship to address.

bill bischoff · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2011, 06:45:02 PM »

The Klasskote paint worked well. If you are used to using Hobbypoxy and Superpoxy, there will be no surprises. In all fairness, the primer and the trim colors are all Superpoxy. Only the light gray is Klasskote, and even it is Klasskote white tinted with Hobbypoxy black and yellow. FWIW, I realized that all my problems with epoxy paint not curing properly have always been with Hobbypoxy, never Superpoxy.

bill bischoff · « **Reply #22 on:** July 05, 2011, 09:48:23 PM »

It's done! Finished weight is 44 oz. I was aiming for 40-42 oz, but oh well. The last Zero with a foam wing and dope and film finish weighed 42 oz, so 2 oz more for the built up wing and a glass & epoxy finish (and a little more wing area) isn't too bad. Different wheels and a plastic tank would be lighter, but I'm not changing it now. The CG is about 1/4" ahead of the spar, which should be a good starting point. The engine is a Reverse rotation Wiley 36, the prop is an APC 9x6 pusher, and the tank holds 5 oz. The lines bolt to the bellcrank as previously discussed, and the slider uses a brass eyelet to lock the lines in high speed, also as shown in a previous post. This will be my first time to try this slider design. Like my other carrier models, the slider is released by the hook, and the hook is released by up elevator.

The next Zero is already under construction. I plan to try a few more different things with it. It may get Klasskote over Monokote on the wings, and maybe a slightly different slider. It will for sure have the more typical rounded wing tips. But for now I need to concentrate on getting all these new carrier planes flown and trimmed!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #23 on:** July 05, 2011, 11:09:30 PM »

That's a great looking model Bill, very, very nice.

Looks like a prime candidate for a kit to me. (Are you laser cutters watching this?)

Here's some food for thought: How about changing the fuse and stab/elev/fin/rudder outlines and making a Hellcat version? It would be very easy to do and that square tip Zero wing you've got there would work fine as is. Could be a great couple of kit offerings.

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #24 on:** July 06, 2011, 04:45:09 AM »

Bill, very nicely done and thanks for taking the time for the tutorial. If plans are in the future I sure would like to get in line.
Thanks
Wayne

bill bischoff · « **Reply #25 on:** July 06, 2011, 10:50:01 PM »

Wayne B, you are first on the list for plans. It may be a while, since I will probably be hand drawing them. That's the limit of my capabilities. If you are interested in building one soon, I can put together enough info for you to build the airframe, and you can fill in all the blanks yourself for systems and hardware.

Wayne W, you are right that the wing could be adapted to many other designs. Again, if you or anyone else needs laser cut ribs, spars etc right away, let me know and we'll find a way to accommodate you

If either of you Waynes know a CAD capable person who needs a project, I'd like to know. I'd have a hard time paying a fair price for the service, since I don't think anything for carrier will be a big seller, but I could offer them a share of the proceeds from plan sales. That way we could both not get rich!

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #26 on:** July 07, 2011, 04:37:31 AM »

Bill, dont know anyone with CAD credentials. I am in no hurry so whenever you are ready. I will pay for them also.
Thanks
Wayne B

bill bischoff · « **Reply #27 on:** July 17, 2011, 07:14:03 PM »

I got three flights on the new Zero today. I guess being a few ounces over target weight didn't really hurt it. On 30% nitro, the one timed flight was 19.1 sec.high, 3:19 low. The new wing design seems to not have any quirks, and the new slider works just as intended. I wrapped some solder around the tail skid to move the CG back before the third flight, and it seemed a bit better in low speed. I may add a bit of permanent tail weight.

Now that I've seen that this one flies OK, I'll press on with the next one!

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #28 on:** July 18, 2011, 04:51:32 AM »

Excellent, glad it worked out.
Wayne

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #29 on:** July 18, 2011, 09:19:11 AM »

Well, I wasn't goint to do any more profile carrier planes for awhile but for this one I'll make an exception. It's just too nice not to build. Sign me up for a short kit and plans...whenever you get around to it will be fine. THANKS!

dale gleason · « **Reply #30 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:14:40 AM »

Just the same as with HobbyPoxy or Superpoxy.......do not inhale KlassKote when spraying.

Lots of familiar faces at the Deck at the NATs, all of 'em lookin' forward to seeing Billy B. back at th' NATs....(push, shove).

No more talk about MO1s, now it will be those dad-gum Zeros! dg

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #31 on:** March 27, 2012, 05:55:08 AM »

Bill, anything new about plans availibility or a short kit on this Zero.
Thanks
Wayne

bill bischoff · « **Reply #32 on:** March 27, 2012, 07:39:03 AM »

No, sorry, not yet. I got sidetracked with the Sportsman Hellcat project and engine testing, but now I'm starting to think about the Zeros again. I started drawing Hellcat plans, but was having a hard time finding the time or enthusiasm necessary to complete them. Now it looks like Steve Moon of Ultra Hobbies will be drawing the formal Hellcat plans. Depending on how that goes, I may have him do the Zero plans also, since he already did my sport combat Zero.

As before, I can probably gather enough information for you to build one, especially if you can fill in the blanks yourself on the systems and hardware. But it looks like you're waist deep in a new profile at the moment anyway, so I'm guessing it's not urgent.

Bill

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #33 on:** March 27, 2012, 08:10:55 AM »

No not urgent but put me down for the plans and let me know so I can send you a check. My Fairey Firefly T 2 is moving along as you can see. This is my first freestyle in a long time although I am using my friend Dan Radway's drawings of a Fulmar as a starting point. He did several airplanes with a non symetrical airfoil and I am trying that on the Firefly. Something differant is fun. So maybe I will have the T 2 ready for some testing in September. Meanwhile the airplane for this year is my XTB3F round tail Guardian in silver and blue.
Thanks
Wayne

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #34 on:** March 27, 2012, 09:59:56 AM »

Bill, with regards to CAD work, PM me and we will talk,, I do cad,, and have some interest in trying Carrier as well

dankar · « **Reply #35 on:** March 27, 2012, 02:25:17 PM »

Bill,
Very nice work and enjoyed the thread. Zero was a great looking airplane. Hope it works out for you.
Cheers,Dan

bill bischoff · « **Reply #36 on:** March 31, 2012, 10:42:21 PM »

Eventually plans should be available for both. With a foam wing, the Hellcat has a minimal parts count. Since I know you are not a hanging kind of guy, the partially completed plans I have for the Hellcat, coupled with a bunch of pictures, would be enough for you to build a fixed-leadout version now if you just can't wait. Send me a PM, or just post, if you want to get started right away. If you'd rather build a Zero with a foam wing, there's probably enough information available for that, too.

BTW, I also have outlines for a F4F Wildcat. So far they're just outlines, and I haven't built one myself, but one of the local guys has one under construction. Dimensions and areas are similar to the Hellcat, so I'm hoping it will fly just as well.

bill bischoff · « **Reply #37 on:** April 02, 2012, 09:46:15 PM »

I'll send you a PM.

Bill