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Author Topic: Warren Truss  (Read 2423 times)

Offline John G. Park

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Warren Truss
« on: August 30, 2012, 03:31:26 PM »
Warren Truss how to...
O.K. I posted a question earlier today asking about a "Webber Truss." 
Got lots of views and 2 repies which was kiondly explained by the first responder (Thank you!) whostragitened me out.
I saw a couple of planes recently with diagonal ribs in a truss form for strength and lighter weight.
I am interested in the strengeth part but would like to know more about how to figure it out.
O am guessing that one could take a regular rib, angle it relative to a strong light and trace the shadow to get the shape for an existing plane.
Are there any "rules" to follow or problems to avoid.
I appreciate all the help I can get.
Don't want to build and find out while flying "that wasn't a good idea."
Appreciate all responses.
Stunt Hangar people have been good to me
John Park (again)
Still in Flint MI
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 03:57:59 PM »
HI John,

You can make I-Beam wings with geodesic ribs.  The easiest way to make a "ribbed" wing is to use a "Lost Foam" set up.  A set of foam cores are marked out for the rib layout.  Then cut through the cores on those lines.  The resulting piece of "core" is a perfect rib pattern.  The cores do not need to be cored out, they should be left solid.  Then the cradles are laid out with the proper rib placements and the wing is built in the cradles.  Easy to get a basically perfect wing!

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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 04:16:54 PM »
There are several ways to do it, some more tedious than others.

1) Starting with the most tedious, you can draw the planform of the wing full size and measure the length of each angled rib, then plot the airfoil out the old fashioned way, which is xy coordinate system like a graph. The only difference would be that you'd use the thickness numbers for the straight rib, while using the exaggerated chord of the angled rib.

2) If you're a moderately competent computer guy, you can get a freeware or buy a software for airfoil plotting. Many years ago, I was loaned "Foiled Again" (and subsequently deleted it after I fooled with it awhile). It was not that difficult to make it work, even tho I didn't have the instruction book, was new to computers, and had some trouble with working my email. I could plot straight ribs for an eliptical wing, tapered, etc., no problem. It didn't put in structural members. I figured out that I could plot diagonal ribs by figuring out the diagonal chord and lying to it about the % of thickness. Profili is a program that is available for download from an Italian aeromodeller. I'm not sure if it's freeware or if it costs a bit, but I've read good things about it, and you can find it with Google. And then, the late Larry Cunningham created a software that would do diagonals and elipticals, specifically for stunt, with thick TE's for flaps, etc.  I believe it was called "Stunt Wing" or something like that, and Randy Powell has used it for a few years. I hope we didn't lose that with Larry's recent passing.

3) Once you get a computer involved, it's usually a short hop to getting laser cut ribs made, whether they be diagonal ribs or not.

4) Often, these Warren Truss wings are created using Bob Hunt's "Lost Foam" system. The foam wing core is simply sliced & diced at the rib locations, and the foam used as a guide for cutting ribs. The "shucks" or excess what doesn't look like a wing is saved and used as the building jig. Seems low tech, but it works very well for many Expert level fliers, as Bill 'splained.   H^^ Steve
 
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Online Tim Wescott

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 04:26:39 PM »
My experience with the various "high tech" methods is that you calculate and measure, and cluck to yourself, and fill reams of paper with math, then once you cut balsa you find out that you've slipped a digit someplace and gotten it wrong.

They're great for production systems, though, because once you get it right it's carved in stone, and easy to nudge one way or another. 

But for one-offs, low tech methods are amazingly resilient.
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2012, 04:35:48 PM »
I forgot to mention that you could (potentially) cut out your ribs as rectangles (say 2" high), glue it all together with the LE, spars & TE in the right places and then sand the sucker to shape with a long sanding board. Actually easier with a tapered wing, FWIW.  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2012, 05:09:25 PM »
I thought you were talking about shear webs and diagonal bracing so I posted a pic in the other thread.

It's easy on a parallel chord wing, you just use an airfoil plotting program and adjust the length and max thickness to suit. Tapered wings are more complex but you can still do it one rib at a time. There is a lot of complicated maths if you do it by hand but Compufoil will do it all for you.

Offline EddyR

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 09:11:33 AM »
Here are two I did years ago using I/Beam construction. NO math,no plotting Just Do It. I have used it a lot on I/Beam wings. Please do not ask how to build a I/Beam wing. There are many threads on it.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 01:50:50 PM by Ed Ruane »
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 10:30:41 AM »
Here are a couple of examples of wings being constructed in my Lost-Foam building method. I have a series of PDF instruction manuals available for the Lost-Foam process and I will email them to anyone whos asks for free. My email address is: robinhunt@rcn.com.

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 10:36:00 AM »
Hey Bob,

You make molded leading edges for the Lost Foam wing don't you? I was trying to figure out a way to do it with the Tom Morris Millennium wing but it got to complicated so I just did it the old fashioned way.

Derek

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 10:43:15 AM »
Here are a couple of examples of wings being constructed in my Lost-Foam building method. I have a series of PDF instruction manuals available for the Lost-Foam process and I will email them to anyone whos asks for free. My email address is: robinhunt@rcn.com.

Bob,

The foam you cut, do you use a vectored art file? I may have asked this once before?

Charles
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 01:49:04 PM »
Hi Derek:

Yes, I provide the leading edge mold bucks with all Lost-Foam sets. I can also provide them for wings built in other manners. I also do the custom molding of the leading edges in balsa (for a price of course... ;D).

Charles, to answer your question, I don't use any files to cut my foam wings and cores; I cut them by hand. Always have... y1

Later - Bob

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2012, 02:07:46 PM »
Hi Derek:

Yes, I provide the leading edge mold bucks with all Lost-Foam sets. I can also provide them for wings built in other manners. I also do the custom molding of the leading edges in balsa (for a price of course... ;D).

Charles, to answer your question, I don't use any files to cut my foam wings and cores; I cut them by hand. Always have... y1

Later - Bob

Nice work Bob! Somebody get me a bib! 
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2012, 02:54:09 PM »
The Lost Foam Fixtures are my favorite method of building built up wings, by far!  I have built several wings using the system and they all have come out super straight!

Second on my favorites list is I-Beam. 

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2012, 08:44:16 PM »
Quote
Charles, to answer your question, I don't use any files to cut my foam wings and cores; I cut them by hand. Always have..Later - Bob

Bob,

OK, then you cut them the way I used to with a hot wire and airfoil templates on each side of the core, correct?

I always needed a second guy.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2012, 07:19:55 AM »
As with anything it takes practice and I know Bob has had tons of practice.   I cut mine by myself and yes I did mess up a few cores.   The problem I have is finding a source of virgin foam locally.   So I go with laser cut ribs from a supplier.
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Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: Warren Truss
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2012, 05:13:29 PM »
The lost foam is the most practical, and accurate way of doing it.
I can't wait to get mine so I can get my ThunderGazer going.
And would like to thank Bob for being so supportive and nice to a completely stranger.

Marcus  H^^
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