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Author Topic: Finishing woes  (Read 843 times)

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Finishing woes
« on: October 13, 2007, 11:35:48 PM »
The finish on the Sig Mustang isn't going a well as planned. I tried to follow the info posted by Randy R, and things started out good. I think my first mistake was not getting enough dope filler coats over the paper. I'm so afraid of making the plane too heavy that I'm sanding the stuff off as fast as I'm building it up. I had constant problems with sand-through, which meant having to recoat various spots on the model. After a while I began to loose track of exactly how thick the finish was on all the different parts of the plane. Then, I decided it looked good enough for primer. I was wrong. With some grey color on it, all of the thin areas showed up as fuzzy. Plus I could still see some areas that needed filling. So I sanded ALL the prime off and primed it again. Now it's better, but there is still alot of areas that need work, but at least I think spot priming will work from here. I have almost all the second coat of primer off the wings now. I need to paint the plane white first to get the desired effect from red color thats going over it. I don't want the color to look purple if I spray it over grey primer.

A couple of questions. Is the little stippling spots normal? Sould I leave a coat of primer under the color?

Oh, the base is clear nitrate. The first primer coat is Duplicolor. The second primer coat is Brodak white dope with a few drops of black in it. The color coats will be Brodak. The clear coats will be Randolph no shrink.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Finishing woes
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2007, 11:55:34 PM »
Clint,

Welcome to finishing with lacquer.

Usually, if you fuzz the paper, you didn't get enough clear on before the fillercoat (primer). I usually use 3 to 4 unthinned coats of clear on the paper, then sand it mostly flat and touch up any spots where I fuzz up the paper and sand those areas again. I get a decent matte finish from the clear. Then I shoot primer and sand off everything except what stays in the low spot. If I still have low spot (not a usual occurrence since I tend to go pretty heavy with the primer), I touch those up and sand. Then I shot a coat of very thin (like 80% thinned) clear on to lock the primer down. At this point it should be pretty smooth, but if you manage to still have some low spots, hit them with some more primer, sand and recoat with the thin clear. It can be a tedious process.

This is where I am with the classic plane I'm working on. It has 3 coats of unthinned clear on and I'm sanding because I didn't do the best papering job in the world (I let myself get in a bit of a hurry). So I'm having to sand a lot of paper overlaps. Once I get it sanding down and pretty flat, I'll hit it with another coat of clear and sand again.

Once you are happy with the surface, after the coat of thin clear (don't skip this step or you'll regret it when tape pulls up the substrate), you can use what is called a blocking coat. It's basically a thin coat of some color to give you an event colored surface to paint on the base color. When I've shot red, I've either used silver or gold as a blocking coat. I like it better than white because white is the heaviest color there is.

If you are concerned about weight, the only real answer is backmasking (can you spell tedious?). The idea being that there is only one layer of color on the plane. You tape and spray each color without going over any color. It saves weight but as I say, it's tedious and time consuming.
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Finishing woes
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2007, 04:36:34 AM »
Randy, Thanks for the tips (again)! There really isn't much for trim color on this plane, so I probably wont bother to backmask anything.
-Clint-

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Offline Randy Ryan

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Re: Finishing woes
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2007, 12:10:52 PM »
Clint,

It sounds like you're doing exactly what needs to be done. Following tips is the first part, but development of the techniques is what eventually makes each one easier and better. The sand through you discribe is something everyone who has ever finished over silkspan, silk or tissue has had to learn how to avoid or minimize. Believe me, with practice you will get to a point where you know by feel and sense where and how much to sand. Even learning what the correct texture looks like takes time and experience. No set of tips or instructions will produce a good finish for you until you develop the techniques and skill. Stick with it and you'll do fine, it sounds like your on the right track to learn the things that can't be taught, only experienced.
Randy Ryan <><
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Finishing woes
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2007, 03:17:08 PM »
Hi Clint,

What Randy and Randy said! ;D  It just takes time to gain the experience to put on a light, super looking finish.  But you will get there! y1
Big Bear <><

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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Finishing woes
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 08:08:42 PM »
The two biggest problems I've identified is not getting enough clear down first before touching it with sandpaper, and not paying enough attention to all the little imperfections before silkspan goes on. Two mistakes I won't make on the JVL Chipmunk.
 I'm sanding off the last of the prime and I think I'm ready to put down the white base coat. I'm actually getting happy with it now.
-Clint-

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Finishing woes
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 10:50:10 PM »
One nice thing about using lacquer is that it is pretty forgiving. If you screw something up, it's usually not too hard to go back and fix it. Usually.

Randy and Bill are right. I can pretty much zip through a finish without too many difficulties at this point (though it seems there's always something ...). But that comes because I've probably built 50 or more planes with painted finishes over the years. Each one gets a bit easier and you learn a feel for not only what to do where and how much, but how to fix stuff when it goes south on you. You wouldn't believe the problems I had when I built the Novi classic plane. In the end, it came out pretty well, but it was not an easy road. The PA plane I'm now flying was comparatively easy. No serious problems and it all went on without much of hitch. Goes that way sometimes.
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Offline Randy Ryan

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Re: Finishing woes
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2007, 06:04:16 AM »
The two biggest problems I've identified is not getting enough clear down first before touching it with sandpaper, and not paying enough attention to all the little imperfections before silkspan goes on. Two mistakes I won't make on the JVL Chipmunk.
 I'm sanding off the last of the prime and I think I'm ready to put down the white base coat. I'm actually getting happy with it now.


This is where technique comes in Clint. Its not a mater of abandoning the sandpaper early, its a matter of which paper to use and how much. I start sanding after the 2nd coat, some areas after the first, but if you watched me you'd wonder why I bothered at all. Removing "nibs" and stray fibers is the reason. It only takes a swipe, not concentrated sanding. This helps because if you wait, you get buildup around the fibers and nibs and that makes the surface harder to level. This is why your finish starts when you start thinking about a new model, not after you've framed it up.

Glad you're liking you work on the Mustang, looking forward to PIX!
Randy Ryan <><
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