Author Topic: 1/2A fierce Arrow (Read 49955 times)

Bill Smith · « **Reply #550 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:35:45 PM »

For those of you that might think that the FA is too much work I found this design by Richard Porter in the july 1985 issue of Model Aviation.
Any one want to try it?

Cox tee dee .049

frank carlisle · « **Reply #551 on:** April 14, 2007, 01:12:59 PM »

Hey that looks interesting!!

Bill Smith · « **Reply #552 on:** April 14, 2007, 01:14:21 PM »

I just looked over the artical and this is a busy design.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #553 on:** April 14, 2007, 01:20:15 PM »

Can you scan the plan? and post it?

Bill Smith · « **Reply #554 on:** April 14, 2007, 01:59:30 PM »

this is done with a ten year old scanner don't expect much.
I wonder if this is the precursor to the barecat.
Opps sorry guys didn't meen to highjack the thread.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #555 on:** April 14, 2007, 02:28:02 PM »

Bladder pressure, flying tail, 555 squares...crazy handle from coat hanger wire and duct tape, bellcrank "suspended" on nylon cord (

), 22 d. engine offset (!!!), about a kazillion pieces, looks like complication for complication's sake, and not even very pretty...

You guys are on your own with this one.

--Ray

Bill Smith · « **Reply #556 on:** April 14, 2007, 03:16:34 PM »

not me I thought about it and said no.
maybe in foam and with a lot of changes Call it the "not quit ridiculous".

frank carlisle · « **Reply #557 on:** April 14, 2007, 03:44:51 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on April 14, 2007, 02:28:02 PM

Bladder pressure, flying tail, 555 squares...crazy handle from coat hanger wire and duct tape, bellcrank "suspended" on nylon cord (), 22 d. engine offset (!!!), about a kazillion pieces, looks like complication for complication's sake, and not even very pretty...

You guys are on your own with this one.

--Ray

No FOR ME TOO. For all the reasons Ray said.

Bill Smith · « **Reply #558 on:** April 14, 2007, 06:11:10 PM »

I only brought it up because it makes the FA look easy.
by the way have any of you got to the paint stage yet??

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #559 on:** April 14, 2007, 07:21:28 PM »

Paint stage?
I am just at the "glue stage", took a few weeks off for dog competition, "snow bird company" and now some "stuff" for my Uncle (Sam that is!").
Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #560 on:** April 15, 2007, 06:04:47 AM »

Here's what I've been working on while waiting for you guys to catch up. My FA is ready to cover, just sitting for now.

The Big Bipe has a Max .40 in the nose.

Not yet finished...need to add a tail wheel, hook up the top wingflaps, put some stripes on the fuselage, add a canopy or windscreen. Drill the leadout holes in the wing brace. I think that's all.

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #561 on:** April 15, 2007, 06:14:14 AM »

Hmm, Interesting.
1/2A Squadron = Ray's MM designs as built by Ray and Frank, a 1/2A P'finder or two, a Barecat or two and a Ridiculous!

If Ridiculous flies w/ a Cox .049, a Norvel .061 should be adequate!

Sure has a lot of parts.
The MA article indicates Wild Bill Netzeband was influential on the design, so it "might be" a Barecat predecessor.
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #562 on:** April 15, 2007, 06:27:53 AM »

I was wondering what you were up to Ray..........The bipe looks real good......

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #563 on:** April 15, 2007, 12:15:23 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on April 15, 2007, 06:27:53 AM

I was wondering what you were up to Ray..........The bipe looks real good......

The thing is, it's not even mine. I drew it up for a buddy some 5 years ago or more, who had the .40 and wanted a biplane for it. He built the basic structures, then got married and quit flying, and gave the pieces to me to finish. I tinker on it from time to time, between other projects; I've gotten REAL TIRED of looking at it! When it's ready to fly I'll try to get him out for a flight or two, then give it back to him if he'll take it.

How close is the Heat?

--Ray

P.S. ooops, I just went to the LA Heat thread and saw the disaster...sorry, I wasn't trying to needle you with the question above. Hang in there, you'll get it done I know.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #564 on:** May 15, 2007, 08:47:39 AM »

Well OK, I'm tired of waiting for you guys, my covering film is here and I'm gonna go ahead and finish the FA before it takes on the status of the Big Bipe above.

I'm already Mr. Autogiro for being the only one to fly his such-named plane (see Autogiro thread); now looks like I'll soon be able to add to that "Mr. Frankenstone Arrow".

Boy, flying season really cuts into building season, doesn't it?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #565 on:** May 15, 2007, 03:25:08 PM »

Hey Ray,
I'm going to get back to my ARROW next week.........The thread lives on.

And yes flying season does get in the way of building. I was out flying with Jan the other day and he asked why the ARROW thread was laying dead...........I said because we're all out flying.......duh.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #566 on:** May 15, 2007, 04:24:22 PM »

Yup, I expect any more on-line mutual building projects will need to wait until Autumn. But we do need to get this one wound up.

Hey Frank, if you get to traveling and make it up this way I hope you can bring your (completed) FA. I'd ask you to bring your Heat, but, I know, it won't fit in your truck.

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #567 on:** May 16, 2007, 06:42:26 AM »

Yep!
Wind has subsided down here so time was spent flying the new Baby P'Finder.
It is a fun plane "and" it does make me want to get going on the FA again.
Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #568 on:** May 26, 2007, 07:24:20 PM »

Hey, here's part of what's been occupying my time lately (for the rest, see new thread "LA repair" plus a couple of bonuses): Got the Frankenstone Arrow covered. Just need to paint the fuse, add some trim (TBD), install the pilot and windscreen, and tie the leadouts.

Details include the adjustable over/under leadout guides, and the engine pod vent. You might notice too the sponge stuff filling the landing-gear exits. And the sharp-eyed might spot the screw-cap tipweight "box". Still under my 10-oz. target RTF. I don't think what's left will add more than half/three quarters of an ounce or so. That would make it 10.5 all told; that ain't bad.

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #569 on:** May 27, 2007, 06:36:38 AM »

Ray,
You really are blazing the trail!
Looks great!
Winds down here (up to 30mph) for the past week have been tooo high to fly 1/2A. Maybe a kite would be okay!
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #570 on:** May 27, 2007, 07:59:10 AM »

I like what you done Ray...............the pix are great. 10 1/2 oz. is lite, lite lite. The tip weight box looks good and I think you did a better job on your louvered exhaust port than I did.
What color will you be painting the fuselage?

Bill Little · « **Reply #571 on:** May 27, 2007, 09:19:04 AM »

I'd paint it white and add red and gold trim with a thin black outline to separate the colors. Just my 1 1/2 cents........

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #572 on:** May 27, 2007, 12:07:32 PM »

Thanks for the good words, guys...Plans are for the fuse to be maroon, some kind of white accent and a maroon stripe or something on the wing. I'll sorta make it up as I go along.

Frank, it was your topside louvers that gave me the idea for my down-unders. I wouldn't have tried it otherwise. But I figured "If Frank can do it, maybe I can too." So thanks again. The weight, you know I went to extremes to save every gram possible...covering even is "microlite", really thin, weighs almost nothing. You have to handle it sort of carefully putting it on, but it applies very nicely, shrinks up well.

Roger, winds here have been ridiculous too, especially for (calm) Minnesota. I thought I'd left the wind behind in Okla. Even in my amply sheltered back yard it's been too gusty to mess around with. Sooooo, I'm still building/repairing.

I have a new .020-size plane drawn up, built-up wing. Pics when I get started on it, I promise.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #573 on:** May 27, 2007, 12:40:51 PM »

you go Ray.............

Bill Smith · « **Reply #574 on:** May 28, 2007, 09:22:59 AM »

Looking Good

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #575 on:** June 02, 2007, 10:10:24 AM »

Latest pics...looks kinda plain, can't decide on trim...any suggestions? (Keep it simple).

10 ounces even, RTF! Gotta say I'm pretty pleased with that.

Balances a little ahead of the called-out CG, but I'll fly it before I make any adjustments. With all that elevator (flapilator?) a little noseheaviness might be just the thing.

First flight will be on 48' lines, APC 6x2 prop, 15% fuel. My trusty Norvel .061 of course.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #576 on:** June 02, 2007, 10:38:31 AM »

Nice piece of work Ray

.......And you got yours done first.

The plane looks nice just the way it is.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #577 on:** June 02, 2007, 01:00:30 PM »

Thanks, Frank. Actually, it's not quite done...needs a pilot, and windscreen. And the leadouts tied off.

Bill Little · « **Reply #578 on:** June 02, 2007, 02:44:22 PM »

Ray.......... that is a very nice piece of work yo got there.

I can't wait to hear the flight reports!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #579 on:** June 02, 2007, 04:08:22 PM »

Test flight in the backyard???

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #580 on:** June 02, 2007, 08:58:29 PM »

Naw, I guess not this time, Frank...although I do have another .020-sized creation I threw together out of coroplast, ready to try out in the back yard. Also another more serious 1/4A drawn up and mostly cut out, ready to build (built-up wing). Yes, I'll post pictures soon.

--Ray

Bill Smith · « **Reply #581 on:** June 03, 2007, 06:49:46 AM »

looks great. nice work.

10 ounces is good you can always add weight but taking it off is tough.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #582 on:** June 06, 2007, 11:38:17 AM »

For what it's worth-----------------I'm back to the Arrow.

I really don't like cutting the ribs out one at a time (well two actually) but it's the only way I can think of.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #583 on:** June 06, 2007, 02:38:19 PM »

Yup, they're a pain...I couldn't find a shortcut either, unless you're cutting out half a dozen ships. Then you could cut the ribs 12 at a time on a jigsaw. Or send it out to a laser cutter.

Ribs in the pic look good, by the way.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #584 on:** June 06, 2007, 04:37:52 PM »

It is a pain cutting the ribs this way......I much prefer stacking them. Sigh.

Looks like we're going to be good for another hundred replies or so here. Looks like anything we touch takes an awful lot of yakking and pictures to get it done.

Have you put any trim on your arrow yet? It looks good the way it is but there just isn't enuff fuss put into it yet.
I wonder what color I'll paint mine? I'm sort of thinking red,white& blue.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #585 on:** June 06, 2007, 07:20:46 PM »

Frank,
Sounds like the box is finished, hauler is idling and pointed East!
Have you flown the LA Heat?
Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #586 on:** June 06, 2007, 07:43:25 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on June 06, 2007, 04:37:52 PM

It is a pain cutting the ribs this way......I much prefer stacking them. Sigh.

Looks like we're going to be good for another hundred replies or so here. Looks like anything we touch takes an awful lot of yakking and pictures to get it done.

Have you put any trim on your arrow yet? It looks good the way it is but there just isn't enuff fuss put into it yet.
I wonder what color I'll paint mine? I'm sort of thinking red,white& blue.

Somehow that sounds just about right...good to branch out like that.

I haven't done anything more to the FA yet, still thinking about it. I did find that if I put transparent red film over opaque blue film, it just about exactly matches the maroon color of the fuselage. I wonder if a fella could apply plastic film in two layers like that? I feel an experiment coming on...

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #587 on:** June 06, 2007, 08:04:51 PM »

Roger, I'm still messing with the engines on the LA Heat. And haven't flown it yet.

Ray, guys do double layers of film all the time.

Bill Smith · « **Reply #588 on:** September 30, 2007, 05:36:31 PM »

Sooooo
Other than Ray have any of you guys made progress?
There haven't been any posts for a while.
they do fly well.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #589 on:** September 30, 2007, 06:05:43 PM »

No progress from me Bill. I plan to get mine going again soon. The warm weather got here in May and it was flying season. Building season is knocking agian.
I saw an in flight picture of your 1/2A Fierce Arrow not long ago on SSW Bill. I think from the NVCL contedt. It looks very good.

Bill Smith · « **Reply #590 on:** September 30, 2007, 06:32:30 PM »

Thanks but I screwed up.
I just grabbed the plane and went to the contest.
No practice and grabbed the wrong fuel (norvels do not like caster) and with a plane this size engine run is very important.
so the run sucked, but I made it through the pattern and the FA looked a lot better than my flying.
I love this shot.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #591 on:** September 30, 2007, 06:53:27 PM »

I do too bill.....post a few more please.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #592 on:** September 30, 2007, 06:57:38 PM »

Quote from: Bill Smith on September 30, 2007, 06:32:30 PM

Thanks but I screwed up.
I just grabbed the plane and went to the contest.
No practice and grabbed the wrong fuel (norvels do not like caster) and with a plane this size engine run is very important.
so the run sucked, but I made it through the pattern and the FA looked a lot better than my flying.
I love this shot.

Now that's interesting Bill, I run "doctored" fuel with my Fox .35 in mind, (added castor) and the Norvels seem to run fine on it, just a little sloppy is all...are you using the Galbreath heads/Nelson plugs? If not, that may be the difference.

--Ray

Larry Renger · « **Reply #593 on:** October 01, 2007, 09:27:00 AM »

Currently I run 10/10/10 fuel, and the engines seem to be quite happy with it. Norvels need lots less nitro than C*x engines did.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #594 on:** October 01, 2007, 11:18:14 AM »

Quote from: Bill Smith on September 30, 2007, 05:36:31 PM

Sooooo
Other than Ray have any of you guys made progress?
There haven't been any posts for a while.
they do fly well.

Bill,
No progress since my last post.
Larry,
Agree, less Nitro needed w/Norvel. 15%N gave me more power than needed on the 1/2A P'finder, so why go for more?
Roger V.

Bill Smith · « **Reply #595 on:** October 01, 2007, 03:15:36 PM »

I do it because I can. Really I just got into the habit due to flying reed valve 1/2A combat with the local guys, I always had 25% on hand. But I could tell a real difference between Castor and noncastor fuel. the cool power and Sig that I used to run was never as good as the Norvel. I was told that there are some additives in some of the fuels that can also cause problems but I don't know what they are I just found that the Norvel fuel worked better in Norvel engines and I try to stick with it, though I could probably use less nitro. What I had the other day was 20% Castor Sig which gave a huge 2-4. It would run away in maneuvers and just putt in level flight I kept waiting for it to stall, pulling out of the squares and eights. My friend Gerry brought me some Norvel and after two tanks it was running great again but the contest was over and I hadn't practiced anyway so I still would have lost to Larry.
I am intending to try one of those heads, I hear good things.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #596 on:** October 01, 2007, 03:48:50 PM »

I am intending to try one of those heads, I hear good things.

Bill,
The Galbreath/Nelson combo is great. I used one for a full flying season.
Use a (very small) amount of anti-seize compund on the plug threads. Aluminum head and steel plug body = galling/seizing.

Roger

George · « **Reply #597 on:** October 01, 2007, 10:16:41 PM »

Quote from: Bill Smith on October 01, 2007, 03:15:36 PM

... I was told that there are some additives in some of the fuels that can also cause problems but I don't know what they are I just found that the Norvel fuel worked better in Norvel engines and I try to stick with it, though I could probably use less nitro.

Bill, when there was a NORVEL site, they said that NORVEL engines ran cooler and additives in some fuels would foul the NORVEL plugs instead of burning off. At that time NORVEL fuels were made by Wildcat. I would assume that SIG makes it now.

George

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #598 on:** October 02, 2007, 07:04:01 AM »

I remember when the "Ridiculous" was published.

The main reason for the design was to actually fly a 5 foot radius corner!!!

Video tape any of the current "Great" models and see what is accepted as a 5 foot radius corner.

Not trying to start anything, just remembering the article comments.

Clancy

P.S. I will not be building one!

Bill Smith · « **Reply #599 on:** October 02, 2007, 04:28:26 PM »

You are more than likely right George.
I do know that it runs different. And the additional Castor made the break a lot wider (have it a little wide anyway).
What ever the reason, I'll just keep a bottle of the Norvel around.

Oh for the five foot radius I built a Barecat it will do it but it also needs one hot .049.