General control line discussion > Ukraine Info
Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
Dennis Leonhardi:
When the Soviet Union fell in 1991, thousands of nuclear arms were left in Ukraine. The country was, in fact, the third-largest nuclear power in the world at the time.
In 1994, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize - based on an agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum, in which the U.S., the U.K. and Russia guaranteed the country's security.
Does the word integrity mean anything to you? If you lived somewhere else, would the word of this spineless administration have any value?
Just asking for a friend ...
Dennis
Ken Culbertson:
--- Quote from: AirClassix on April 05, 2022, 10:10:41 PM ---When the Soviet Union fell in 1991, thousands of nuclear arms were left in Ukraine. The country was, in fact, the third-largest nuclear power in the world at the time.
In 1994, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize - based on an agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum, in which the U.S., the U.K. and Russia guaranteed the country's security.
Does the word integrity mean anything to you? If you lived somewhere else, would the word of this spineless administration have any value?
Just asking for a friend ...
Dennis
--- End quote ---
Do you seriously expect a Democrat to live up to a commitment? Especially one made by another Democrat?
Mike Alimov:
--- Quote from: AirClassix on April 05, 2022, 10:10:41 PM ---In 1994, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize - based on an agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum, in which the U.S., the U.K. and Russia guaranteed the country's security.
Dennis
--- End quote ---
Let's get some facts straight.
According to the Budapest Memorandum, the U.S., the UK and Russia have agreed: (1) to respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders [in exchange for them giving up nuclear weapons], (2) refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine, (3-6) etc. See full document for details. Or simply look up "Budapest Memorandum" in Wikipedia.
So your statement that the US, UK and Russia "guaranteed the country's security" is misleading at least. Which makes your later insinuation about the inaction of the US or its lack of integrity a moot point. There is NO explicit document or agreement where the US has promised to defend Ukraine using military means (in the same way as, say, Article 5 of NATO).
The only signatory to the Budapest Memorandum which has breached it in a major way is Russia - first by annexing Crimea in 2014, then in 2018 by firing on Ukrainian ships in the Strait of Kerch, and finally by staging a full blown invasion in 2022.
So if you have some unkind words to say about this conflict, address them to Russia who started this aggression in the first place. If, on the other hand, you are just looking for an opportunity to twist a couple of facts and take a cheap shot at your own country's government, just say so, it won't be the first time.
Now, I have donated to the Ukrainian refugee charity. What have you done to help?
Dennis Leonhardi:
--- Quote from: Mike Alimov on April 06, 2022, 09:17:16 PM ---Let's get some facts straight.
According to the Budapest Memorandum, the U.S., the UK and Russia have agreed: (1) to respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders [in exchange for them giving up nuclear weapons], (2) refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine, (3-6) etc. See full document for details. Or simply look up "Budapest Memorandum" in Wikipedia.
So your statement that the US, UK and Russia "guaranteed the country's security" is misleading at least. Which makes your later insinuation about the inaction of the US or its lack of integrity a moot point. There is NO explicit document or agreement where the US has promised to defend Ukraine using military means (in the same way as, say, Article 5 of NATO).
The only signatory to the Budapest Memorandum which has breached it in a major way is Russia - first by annexing Crimea in 2014, then in 2018 by firing on Ukrainian ships in the Strait of Kerch, and finally by staging a full blown invasion in 2022.
So if you have some unkind words to say about this conflict, address them to Russia who started this aggression in the first place. If, on the other hand, you are just looking for an opportunity to twist a couple of facts and take a cheap shot at your own country's government, just say so, it won't be the first time.
--- End quote ---
Yes, let's get the facts straight! The Ukrainian (and Russian) translation would be our word "guarantee". I'm sure you can fact-check that ...
--- Quote from: Mike Alimov on April 06, 2022, 09:17:16 PM ---Now, I have donated to the Ukrainian refugee charity. What have you done to help?
--- End quote ---
Where should we send the trophy?
You're damn right I'm criticizing our current administration! Statistically ZERO COVID Deaths in our country in Americans 17 years and younger, with 46,000 reported adverse reactions to the vaccines, including death. In studies COVID deaths in that age group in the unvaccinated were no higher than in the vaccinated group. Yet our military is discharging recruits who refuse the jab.
Our military: Chairman of The Joint Chiefs of Staff Milley predicted in February a Russian invasion of Ukraine could take Kyiv in "just 72 hours". He also predicted Ukraine would likely lose 15,000 troops compared to Russia's 4,000. Is he too busy dealing with his whiteness to get real intelligence?
Inflation: It's out of control. Why?
Crime: It's out of control. Why?
While we're discharging young men from the service for refusing that jab, we're allowing thousands of illegals to enter the country every day, knowing literally nothing about their health or background. And giving them cash, transportation, and cell phones!
My wife works literally every day with people who had to purchase very limited health coverage - which legally excludes pre-existing conditions - because they couldn't afford the new Obamacare premiums. What are YOU doing to meet that need?
(Oh, and you did keep your doctor and save $2,000 a year on insurance premiums, right?)
If you're not upset by the current state of affairs in this country, you either (1) have your head in the sand, (2) don't give a rat's a-- about anyone but yourself, or (3) simply look the other way rather than acknowledge the failings of your political heroes.
Avaiojet:
I've Posted enough information in this Forum about our Government. Keep in mind, our Government is made up of people. People who aren't perfect. In fact, eventually, politicians become criminals. Really bad criminals. As we're starting to see, thank you Donald Trump.
For over 40 years, I've said the US Government is the most corrupt government on the planet. People learn slowly. Plus American Citizens are mislead. Lied to, each and every day for as far back as I can remember. Democrat Socialist Communists, right out in the open now.
Since 1996, I've been making plans to get out of this s---hole called America. And don't lecture me saying it's the best place to live on the planet. I know better. Not only has our political leaders ruined the Country, they've had help from citizens as well. Really ugly people some have become, by conditioning and design. Low moral standards? Look around, you don't have far to go to see these terrible people.
It's cost myself and two other lifetime friends and families a small fortune to make our "escape."
I told you I'm going to the Azores. We're winding down with loos ends but getting it done.
BTW. Anyone want to buy a horse? We'll give him away if we cannot sell him. ;D
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