Author Topic: vintage speed (Read 3359 times)

Joey Mathison 9806 · « **on:** January 16, 2007, 06:20:13 PM »

ruels have been printed in the latest speed times mag. cut off date is 1964. man ol man this is going to be so much fun to watch. i have 1 event with two motors that i could run mccoy 29 and a s/t 29 my bad make that 2 events they brought back B PROTO

Steve Wilk · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2007, 09:12:06 PM »

Hi Joey

After Dad and I attended 2 contests in Portugal were they fly Vintage Speed, we ask Dave Mark what thought about the idea of flying Vintage Speed over here. He said come up with a set of rules and he'll print it. Dad put a lot of time doing the research and I put it all together. Along with the CD of plans that dad offers the AMA also has full size plans of many of the old plans.
We have just added Sidewinder to the Vintage Jet list. It was published in 1971 but flew in the 1964 Nats.

Steve Wilk
swilk@cpinternet.com

1/2A Speed           Price   AMA #   Pond #
73.40     1953 Oct   Flying Models       $3.00   26200   54B1
All Wing Wonder    1953 July   Air Trails       $3.00   24659   41E4
Lil Bomb      1953 Oct   Air Trails     $3.00   26137   53E6
Lil Dusty     1964 Dec   Model Airplane News $7.00   31137   81B7
Midget Speedster 1949 Feb   Model Airplane News $3.00   25740   50D3
Mini Whirlaway 1/2A Kit     Berkley Kit     $3.00   23655   33F6
Mini-Speedster 1951 Jan   Air Trails      $3.00   29201   69B1
Peanuts      1958 Aug   American Modeler      $4.00   10510
Peanuts     1960 July    American Modeler      $3.00   26141   53E7
Peanuts II 1961 Oct   American Modeler      $3.00   29309   70B4
Speed Bug 1953 Apr   Air Trails      $3.00   23613   33D5
Wee Whiz Wagon 1951Oct    Air Trails      CALL   15699
White Lightning      1963 Nov   Model Airplane News $3.00   29290   70A3

A Speed
A-Burner     1961 Dec-Jan   Flying Models      $4.00     30817   87G3
A-Jewel     1960 Jan   Flying Models      $4.00     26260   54E6
Dizzy Boy A/B/C    1956 May   Model Airplane News $8.00     33621   73E4
Dizzy Bug II    1962 Aug   Model Airplane News $8.00     29863   74G6
Hellion      1951 Dec   Flying Models     $4.00     24679   41F6
Hustler      1949 Oct   Flying Models      $4.00     26236   54D4
Little Joe      1951 Nov   Model Airplane News $7.00     20537   8B6
Mono Missile      1956 Sept   Flying Models     $5.00     24589   41A3
New Angle 1953 Apr   Flying Models      $3.00     26419   55G3
Nipper     1956 July   Model Aircraft      $4.00     29937   75E6
Nipper mk.II    1956 July   Model Aircraft     $7.00     31683   88A1
Orbit ‘A’     1958 Aug   Model Airplane News $3.00     26129   53E3
Speed Wagons    Kit     DeBolt Model      $7.00     30828   87G6
Squeaker      1954 Nov   Air Trails     $4.00     30271   78B7
Super Whirlaway    Kit     Berkeley     $4.00     12743   34D2
Super Whirlaway A/B Kit     Berkley Kit     $4.00     12743   34D2
Whammy 1951 Annual   Air Trails      $3.00     35669   35G6
Whirlaway A/B    Kit     Berkley Kit     $4.00     12743   34D2

B Speed
A-Bomb     1956 Jul     Model Airplane News $8.00     24937   43G5
Black Bird     1950 Sept   Model Airplane News $4.00     26051   52G7
Bounder     1952 Sept   Model Airplane News $8.00     25396   47F2
Circulator     1950 Mar     Model Airplane News $4.00 26136   53E5
Desert Streak   Kit     Desert Model Co.     $3.00     28810   65E5
Dizzy Bee     1959 Aug     Model Airplane News $8.00     10458
Dizzy Boy A/B/C   1956 May   Model Airplane News $8.00     33621   73E4
Fling     1951 Oct     Air Trails     CALL     15699
Glo-Debbil 1948 Nov   Air Trails      $4.00 26270   54F4
Green Flash     1946 May   Model Airplane News $4.00     30050   76D1
Hill Special   1954 Mar     Air Trails      $12.00 28519   63B2
Honey B     1962 Apr     Model Airplane News $7.00    23614   70B7
Kansas Twister   Kit     Speed Master Hobby Prod $4.00 30539 80C6
Orbit Ace     Kit     Berkley     $8.00 23922   35E6
Quickie Trainer 1955 Nov     Model Airplane News $8.00     26409   55F7
Roscoe    1949 Oct Air Trails      $8.00     10484
Sky Shark    1948 Mar     Air Trails      $14.00 33573   70A2
Speed Wagons   Kit     DeBolt Model      $5.00     31708   88B3
Speedy-Q     1950 Apr     Flying Models      $4.00     24667   41E7
Super Whirlaway   Kit     Berkeley     $4.00     12743   34D2
Torrid Tyro 1954 Oct     Flying Models      $4.00 33134   75E3

B Proto
Mile Master II     1961 Annual   Model Airplane News $8.00     26768   28A7
Rat Racer   Kit     Midwest     $8.00     25143   45E2
Regal Raider   Kit     Harters     $4.00     25139   45E1
Regal Rodent   Kit     Harters     $4.00     10485
Scorcher 1964 Sept   Model Airplane News $8.00     23858   35B6

C Speed
California 49’er   1949 April   Flying Models     $4.00 24673   41F2
Desert Streak   Kit     Desert Model Co.     $3.00     28810   65E5
Dizzy Boy A/B/C   1956 May   Model Airplane News $8.00 33621   73E4
Dust Devil   1960 Jun-Jul   Flying Models      $4.00     29933   75E3
Gay Lady V 1949 May   Air Trails May     $3.00     10596
Gopher    1952 Jul     Air Trails      $8.00     23676   33G7
Hell Razor    1949 Dec     Model Airplane News $3.00 23493   32E3
Hell's Fire     1951 Jun     Flying Models      $4.00     32904   54C4
Magna Speed   Kit     Magna Models     $9.00     33004   60C4
Monitar    1955 Annual   Air Trails      $7.00     31301   90G5
Orange Crate 1950 Apr     Air Trails     $5.00     24422   39E6
Screamer 60 1950 Nov     Air Trails      CALL     14641
Screamin' Demon     1951 Aug     Air Trails      $5.00     10625
Speed Wagons   Kit     DeBolt Model      $7.00     31051   91A5
Speedwagon 50   1952 Jun     Model Aircraft     $4.00     31464   89C3
Tiger 1946 Nov     Air World      $8.00     29974   75G5
Top C.A.T. 1963 May     Model Airplane News $7.00 21959   68F5
Zing     Kit   American Hobby Specialists Inc $8.00     23658   33F7

Jet Speed
Devil Dart   1953 Sept   Air Trails      $7.00     23945   35F7
Firedart 1961 July   American Modeler $4.00 23492   32E3
Squirt     Kit     Berkley     $13.00 23607   33D3
Super Squirt   Kit     Berkley     $8.00     23661   33G1
Sidewinder   1971 Jan     Model Airplane News $7.00 31695   88A5

Joey Mathison 9806 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2007, 05:38:07 AM »

i have a big ol supply of the old wood props we used back then rev ups top flight and even tornado if someone is looking contact me at mathison205@aol.com

Bill Hughes · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2007, 04:31:32 PM »

Now all that is needed is for there to be a contest. Any club up to the task?
Bill

Sonny Williams · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2007, 07:56:54 PM »

Bill, Am I misinterpreting something with the Speed layout to be used at the 2007 Nats.
It appears by the diagram and explaination in Speed Times that there will only be one circle and that appears to be the practice circle to the left of the circle used in 2006.
First question, where will Vintage speed be flown? Secondly, Does AMA have absolutely no regard for the Speed events to the extent that we are simply being pushed out of the picture for the sake of RC.

dynasoar1948 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2007, 08:24:57 PM »

Joey,

I'm trying to get some Tornado 8/8 wood, or pressed wood props. Have lots of pressed wood 6/9, 6/10, 7/9 and 7/10, but they won't work on my B electric.

Was hoping to fly some vintage speed, but don't think my Arden .19 with less HP than a modern 1/2A, would like having to fly on present day A lines. (119 on 42 X 0.008 lines back in 1948, but I wouldn't want to fly on them today)

Will

Joey Mathison 9806 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:43:10 PM »

will 90% of my old wood props are for the 60's but i will look see and report back

Sonny Williams · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2007, 08:24:04 AM »

Steve & Joey, It's obvious that an ample supply of wooden props is going to be a problem. Given that, will carbon fiber props be allowed in Vintage.

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2007, 08:51:37 AM »

Will,
I would really like to see the info you posted on Electric speed again on the Nass Site. Electric motors and batterys have made a quantum leap since then. Also would like to see your thoughts on what can be done with the current products available today.

Scott

Steve Wilk · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2007, 01:45:18 PM »

Hi Sonny

There is limitations on props. CF & FG are ok to use.

Steve

don Burke · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2007, 04:08:30 PM »

Quote from: Sonny Williams on January 17, 2007, 07:56:54 PM

Bill, Am I misinterpreting something with the Speed layout to be used at the 2007 Nats.
It appears by the diagram and explaination in Speed Times that there will only be one circle and that appears to be the practice circle to the left of the circle used in 2006.
First question, where will Vintage speed be flown? Secondly, Does AMA have absolutely no regard for the Speed events to the extent that we are simply being pushed out of the picture for the sake of RC.

Access to the CL areas is prevented during the R?C Giant Scale Aerobatics due to the possiblilty of one of them causing havoc on the ground. Unfortunate but a reality. No flying at the CL circles from 6 thru 9 July, rats!

Joey Mathison 9806 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2007, 04:58:37 PM »

Will i have some top flight 10-8.5's and 8-9's also some rev up 8-9's others are top flight 9-12,9-12.5,9-13 rossi 9-14 rev up 9-12,9-13 tornado 9-12,9-13

Bill Hughes · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2007, 11:26:35 AM »

With regard to the Map of the AMA Speed Circles shown in the latest issue of Speed Times....
The Whole C/L Area...Speed, Racing and Stunt etc...are CLOSED during the time the AMA flys the Giant Acrobatics competition. The change in the circle layout have been a problem that the AMA has had for some years now. In the past, the way we have set up the Speed Pit Area on the side of the parking lot has been the problem. The AMA (Lawyers??) have said that we have been in the RC Pylon Flyover zone all along. The solution was to move us (parking and Pit Area) to the other side of the Speed Circles. To make things work better, we will have to use the other circle. That is it, plain and simple. The other circle can still be used for testing just as the other was used in the past.

Vintage Speed....As of right now...Vintage Speed will not be flown at the Nats. If it is, it would have to be after the awards for the AMA events are given out, ~515pm or so. One thought was to fly Vintage on the weekend before OR after the AMA Nats. Well, the Giant Acrobatic event closing the C/L area on the weekend before nixed that idea. Also, The F2A Team Selection in the Weekend after the Nats. So, the only option would be after hours. Please note that the NASS Nats management is not committing to hosting or running the Vintage Speed. It would have to be sponsored by and run by some other party. The Nats Management has enough to do during the Week of AMA Flying.

Vintage Speed in the USA is only in it infantsy right now. A preliminary set of rules were laid out. There still are some problems that need to be worked out. Most concerns are safety related,
Model Construction, fuel composition, Wire Length and Dia, etc. The same issues that drove the current AMA C/L Speed Rule toward were they are today. I know that many people are going to say.."well, the models are not going to go as fast as the AMA Speed Models" or "The old Engines will not run on the 10% Fuel (80/20 for Jets)" Well, that is not intirely true, they will run well. And I don't think that you would want them to run the old engines as hard or on the edge as was done in the past. Some of the engines are un-obtainium. We (Control Line Speed) cannot have any more accidents like in the past. I really do not want to see some person bring out his 40-50 yr/old .60 model and put it in the air and there be a problem. Any problem will not only hurt the young Vintage Speed movement but also do damage to AMA C/L Speed too.

Regards,
Bill Hughes
NASS President and CL Speed Contest Board Chairman

Joey Mathison 9806 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2007, 05:10:56 PM »

Bill you are right about the vintage motors running on 10% slugger had a classic speed added to one of his contest in az i ran a top cat with a st 29 at 112 mph it was fun they just won't swing all the prop we used back then on the std contest fuel .

Sonny Williams · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2007, 06:50:41 AM »

Bill, Thanks for response pertaining to the Speed layout at the Nats and Vintage Speed. OK, it is clear now inasmuch as it was the pit and parking area that was the problem and not just using the first circle as the primary circle. As for Vintage safety is and should be a concern and everyone should understand. Nevertheless I hope the interest will grow and Vintage will become an active event. I also agree that there are some pretty good older engines that will still turn some surprising speeds and all seasoned models should be inspected for integrety and soundness. We don't need a good old hot 60 to fly apart in the air. Guys should understand that.

rustler · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2007, 04:55:23 AM »

America is in for a real treat as Vintage Speed takes off. The U.S. was the spawning ground of the event, and the nostalgia associated with the event will produce some wonderful concours standard flying models, powered by superb contemporary classic engines. Of course most people know so much more about engines than was known at the time, so the speeds will be higher. I guess that 163mph with a McCoy 49 will be a good starting point. This class will run and run for some time to come.

Bobby Poisson · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2007, 11:39:02 AM »

With any luck it may produce some new flyers/contestants too.

dynasoar1948 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2007, 11:40:38 AM »

Hi Rustler,

That 163 MPH flight you refer to was widely known at that time, to have been 7/6 the actual speed (139.7). Missed laps are the major reason for requiring a backup flight to establish an AMA record.

I would love to run My Arden .19 (would this be considered Class A or Class B under the present rules?) as well as Fairabend McCOY 49 and Franny's Dooling 61. I've also got McCOY 60, Lapped piston McCOY 29, Dooling 29, Fox 29R in MagnaModel etc. If I can come up with a setup which will fly on one of the line sizes we have had presented to us, I'll sure compete, but it doesn't look practical with the diameters now proposed.

On AMA fuel, a vintage .19 has power well below a piped 1/2A; a .29 or even a vintage 49 is way less powerful than a .21 Sport, much less a Form 40, and the old 60s maybe barely equivalent. Only the vintage DynaJet is in any way comparable with modern equipment. This is an area that needs more thought, if Vintage speed is to become popular. What do the Europeans do?

Will Stewart

Joey Mathison 9806 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2007, 07:29:36 PM »

will you have to out smart the 10%fuel they will run just fine with a smaller prop and last a lot longer. just not as fast who cares they will make a bunch of noise and look real neat tooling around the circle SAFELY. SAFETY FIRST NEVER LAST LIVE A FUTURE NOT A PAST.

dynasoar1948 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2007, 09:30:00 PM »

Hey Joey,

I'm not worried about the 10% nitro, but might want to add some castor oil to keep the old piston rings working. Might be a good idea to include .19s built before 1959 (When the .15s came in) in Class A, like they were then.

Anybody around here fly AMA Rat? Notice that 4lb. airplanes are legal to fly on 60-foot by 0.014" dia lines for .21, 0.016" for .29 and 0.018" for .40.- (with 0.255" max venturi dia, which still allows modern engines to develop power way beyond vintage engine levels.) Four pound airplanes, Wow!

Will

rustler · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:34:42 AM »

G'day. I thought the 163 guy repeated that speed to within a whisker the following week? Did they miss a lap that time?
As to line sizes and fuels, personally I think Vintage is Vintage, not Modified Vintage. Surely the rules apertaining at the time should be used, although o.k. to exclude e.g. tetra and benzene and nitro-benzene. If you fly AMA rules the AMA should recognise the class and specify the old rules. Looks to me as if the event may be dead in the water before it takes off if all modern rules are applied. Maybe limit nitro to 50%, but that's as far as I would go. Good luck, this should be a wonderful event.

dynasoar1948 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2007, 10:33:13 AM »

Hi Rustler,

I was a Sr competitor, attending most East Coast Speed contests with the Trenton, New Jersey gang. My events were usually Classes A and C (.19 and .49) so I was particularly interested in the speeds turned in those classes at that time. I'm aware of the Buffalo, NY claim and the "Speedwagon" ads which followed, but know nothing about any East Coast officials in Class C, thru 1950 at least, that exceeded 140 MPH. Where was the second flight?

Incidentally, I was standing behind the timers with my stopwatch at the Sept 49 Trenton contest, where George Fong flow the first HellRazor 159+. This was an accurately timed flight, which was not backed that day, or ever to my knowledge, within five mph.

With regard to proposed Vintage Speed rules, while I don't blame anyone for being conservative with all the 'slip-and-fall' lawyers looking for work, I believe that the lines may be a little larger in diameter than is necessary. The official AMA Rat rules allow four pound metal pan airplanes to fly on 0.014 dia lines, presumably with adequate safety. The rules need more work for the event to succeed.

Will Stewart.

Steve Wilk · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2007, 11:30:13 AM »

Hi Will

Here is how the Line size came about.
We took the fastest speed of each class at the Nats up to 1965.
We gave that info to Joe Brownlee and that is how the line size was determined.
The speeds may be slower due to the larger line diameter and if we limit nitro. But until that proves, out the NASS official want to error on the side of safety. If we can run a couple of contest and establish slower speeds then we can re-look at reducing line diameter. We have to start somewhere and we don't want a line failure to stop the event before it gets started.

As far as .19 A class and .49 C class. It would be easy enough to have:
.19 A class thru 19?? use the date when the event changer
.15 A class thru 1965
.49 C class thru 19?? use the date when the event changer
.60 C class thru 1965
For the early classes of A & C only those engines and plane up to that date could be used.

Steve & Tom

Vintage (thru 1964) National Winners

1/2A Speed
Jr   1957   96.6   Hardy Lewis Jr.   Dallas, TX   Willow Grove NAS, PA
Sr   1964   103.29   Dubby Jett   Seagoville, TX   Dallas NAS, TX
Open   1962   107.61   Warren Kurth   Bloomington, OH   Glenview NAS, IL

A Speed
Jr   1964   139.16   Danny Wakerly    Napa, CA   Dallas NAS, TX
Sr   1964   148.33   Dubby Jett   Seagoville, TX   Dallas NAS, TX
Open   1957   154.58   Bill Wisniewski   Lakewood, CA   Willow Grove NAS, PA

B Speed
Jr   1964   149.07   Joe Giordano   Pleasanton, Ca   Dallas NAS, TX
Sr   1964   157.69   Dubby Jett   Seagoville, TX   Dallas NAS, TX
Open   1964   161.23   John Newton   Arcadia, CA   Dallas NAS, TX

C Speed
Jr   1963   156.46   Stephen Mueler   Phoenix, AZ   Los Alamitos NAS, CA
Sr   1964   171.85   Dubby Jett   Seagoville, TX   Dallas NAS, TX
Open   1964   174.52   Jim Summersett   San Antonio, TX   Dallas NAS, TX

Jet Speed
Jr   1958   149.19   Duane Kaasa   Seattle, WA   Glenview NAS, IL
Sr   1964   158.33   Mason Mitchell   Winstom-Salem, NC   Dallas NAS, TX
Open   1957   177.27   Ted Reese   Brownstown, IL   Willow Grove NAS, PA

B Proto Speed
Jr   1964   121   Edie Roberts   Huntsville, AL   Dallas NAS, TX
Sr   1964   130.86   Dubby Jett   Seagoville, TX   Dallas NAS, TX
Open   1964   135.49   Harris-Shelton   Baton Rouge, LA   Dallas NAS, TX

jetbill40 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2007, 02:45:01 PM »

Billy as soon as I get this flying site off the ground in Akron I will be happy to have Vintage speed. JB

dynasoar1948 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:15:41 PM »

Hi Tom & Steve

I'm not going to argue against safety, but am reminded of a RAND Corporation survey of factors affecting traffic safety, which had a graph showing that highway fatalities went to zero, when speed went to zero.

Guess I'll wait until there have been official Vintage flights made before building anything except, maybe, Proto (which I never flew in the old days), which appears to have line sizes more like what might be expected for these events. Until then, the line sizes specified have succeeded in providing 100% safety against my older models coming off the wall.

For the record, is a K&B side exhaust .61 legal? I believe that it was available in 1964. If it is, I could try a MonoLine "C", since these engines aren't very expensive.

If there is any interest in earlier classes, I believe .19 A engines were legal thru 1958, and .49 C thru 1952. 0.014 X 52'6" for old A and 0.018 X 60 for old C, might give them a fighting chance.

Best wishes for an ultimately successful Vintage program.

Will Stewart

Joey Mathison 9806 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2007, 05:26:07 PM »

speed times vol 17 #2 list the results from the az. contest where they held classic speed using modern fuel and modern lines top cat b speed put up a 108 mph flight it was a LOT OF FUN. this should not be diffacult to fly this event and realy should not turn into the fiasco that sport jet is turning into all of this is just for fun.

dynasoar1948 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2007, 07:16:01 PM »

Joey,

Sport-Jet is not a fiasco- it's a great event that, in my opinion could be made even better with lighter, longer lines. The problem is no clear-cut way to change the rules exists.

Vintage Speed is another great idea and maybe any set of rules is better than none, but this is a case where (with the possible exception of Proto) I don't believe that I want to try to fly engines, almost worth their weight in gold, in a situation where line weights have been increased by nearly a factor of three. It may be that everything will work out just fine. If so, then I'll admit that I was wrong, and go flying.

Are we going to get a chance to test fly Jets at the Narrows before the season opens?

Will

Joey Mathison 9806 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2007, 09:05:40 PM »

will right now my knee is bothering me and i don't think i could fly anything fast i think it is from the cold and me getting old and fat. fred anderson may have to be our pilot this year

Steve Wilk · « **Reply #28 on:** January 26, 2007, 07:26:35 AM »

The K&B 61 (series 75) was first introduced in January 1975
The Veco 61 (series 200) was first introduced in April of 1966

I get my info from:
American Model Engine Encyclopedia
An Index of Production North American Model Power Plants 1911-1975
by Tim Dannels
http://www.modelenginecollecting.com/
I have several other Engine books but none are as complete as this one. Tim's AMEE has 250 pages with 5 to 7 engine listings on each page. Included Ignition, Glow, Diesel, CO2 and a nice section of Jets for Joey.

Tim has done an excellent job and a must have for your library. I doesn't just list Fox 35 Stunt but over 15 variations of the Fox 35 Stunt, when they we produced and how to tell them apart along with a picture of each. There are a lot engine that I've heard about (and many I haven't) and now I can see a pic (a good pic not a poor copy from a model magazine) and when it was produced and fact about the engine. It sells for $40 plus postage and well worth it.

Steve

dynasoar1948 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 26, 2007, 10:53:08 AM »

Thanks for the info on the K&B 61. Thought it had shown up earlier (in parts at least) in the "flat top" McCOY 60 conversions.

I plan to build a "Vintage" Proto with either a lapped piston McCOY 29 (Dick made this up in 1957, using powdered metal for the piston and a tool steel sleeve), or my old Fox 29R. Both engines have been modified, so their E-Bay value has been reduced.

As for the other classes, I'll wait and see.

Will

Steve Wilk · « **Reply #30 on:** January 26, 2007, 11:55:22 AM »

I just picked up a new OS Max 29R on ebay for $100. So I'm looking at building a B Proto Scorcher.

Steve

dynasoar1948 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 26, 2007, 01:05:43 PM »

Nice looking airplane. Do you plan to build as U-Control or MonoLine? I'm not familiar with the OS 29R. Is it like the 35 Combat Special?

Last night I played hookey from a consulting job and laid out a similar looking Proto using a Desert Streak (remember that one?) pan and aluminum wings. Looking at the sketches, it reminded me of the pre-war Keith-Ryder world speed record project airplane. Hope it flies as fast as my B-Electric.

I'm in the expense doghouse after buying a new Sensenich prop for the Grumman, but plan to get the engine book soon.

Will

Steve Wilk · « **Reply #32 on:** January 26, 2007, 03:00:52 PM »

It will be two lines and my daughter is claiming it as hers. We'll build it out of redwood and balsa/bass with a clear finish, just like in the planes
The OS 29R (Racing) was introduced in 1964.
Here's another B Proto.

Steve

Bill Pardue · « **Reply #33 on:** January 30, 2007, 01:44:40 PM »

Quote from: dynasoar1948 on January 24, 2007, 09:30:00 PM

Hey Joey,

I'm not worried about the 10% nitro, but might want to add some castor oil to keep the old piston rings working. Might be a good idea to include .19s built before 1959 (When the .15s came in) in Class A, like they were then.

Anybody around here fly AMA Rat? Notice that 4lb. airplanes are legal to fly on 60-foot by 0.014" dia lines for .21, 0.016" for .29 and 0.018" for .40.- (with 0.255" max venturi dia, which still allows modern engines to develop power way beyond vintage engine levels.) Four pound airplanes, Wow!

Will

Bill Pardue · « **Reply #34 on:** January 30, 2007, 01:54:06 PM »

Re Vintage Speed Fuels: I think you guys are missing Tom and Steve's wording on fuels: "Max nitromethane content will be 36%. Fuel ingredients are limited by what is current allowed by AMA." This does not say "Limited to AMA fuel FORMULAS." It says "ingrediants". That means any kind of oil that is now allowed by AMA and methanoll, nitromethane and propylene oxide. Are you allowed to running any other ingredients". That wording will allow a jet to run on 1-1-1 fuel formula which is the old Hoyt Sidewinder fuel formula. You recip guys can run 35% nitro, 15% oil (if you go that low), and the rest alkie and p.o. That's just an example of what the "wording" will allow. If the intention is to run only AMA Speed Fuel Formulas, the rules should so state.
Bill Pardue

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #35 on:** February 09, 2007, 09:02:40 PM »

this is great news (vintage speed)
stunt and speed were 2 events i never tryed.(always rat and combat for me)

now i understand why ebay prices on vintage speed kits have risen!

my dad flew b and c?(.60) speed from about 55 to 60
my mom flew b-proto
have various engines/pans /props/new and used and some parts he cut for a .60 mcoy and never assembled.

have partly restored 2 of his b ships with fox.29r
and the mcoy 60 ship
will only display--never to fly agin!
have 2 of moms unfinished protos--one i converted to rat in mid 70s and wounded it mortaly with stuck shut off in full down---these will never fly either

would love to see this vintage speed take off
my only question is if Dads designs would be legal
i would probably only do b proto with mcoy .29 / st.29/k&b.29--dad said the bath tub foxes didnt run to good.
might build for .60 a mcoy or hornnet ship but someone else will have to fly it!

i was thinking 30% nitro would be enough if we lower exaust timing.(shim head as nessary)
my best unspeedexperinced guess is that line size could be smaller than proposed if this were done.
i have his original plans all pre 1960
suitaible props would be a problem finding right dia/pitch i know i would be scared to run any that i have.

this is GREAT!

will be checking back to see where it goes!

David