Author Topic: The last word on Fox 35 Stunt Speed at The 2016 Brodak Fly In (Read 21442 times)

Paul Smith · « **on:** February 29, 2016, 01:35:54 PM »

My entry form arrived last Friday. I'm sending in my entry today.

We've had months of discussion about what is a modified Fox 35 Stunt. After due consideration, here's how I plan to run the event.

A modified Fox 35 Stunt is an engine that looks like a Fox 35 Stunt from the outside. That is to say the crankcase and head look like Fox 35 Stunt products. I will not look inside the engine.

A FORA or a K&B or a Nelson with a Fox logo attached does not look like a Fox 35 Stunt to me.

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #1 on:** February 29, 2016, 04:21:57 PM »

I just love this hobby

bob whitney · « **Reply #2 on:** February 29, 2016, 04:40:32 PM »

well there go's my JETT pylon engine

Paul Smith · « **Reply #3 on:** February 29, 2016, 05:05:18 PM »

Don't worry. You can still use it in Saint Louis.

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #4 on:** February 29, 2016, 06:45:24 PM »

Good plan Paul

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2016, 04:35:22 AM »

The JETT Pylon Engine with a Fox 35 decal would be allowed in St Louis either

Bottom line - the crankcase of the engine has to be Fox 35 Stunt engine with the plain bearing

Fred

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2016, 09:55:34 AM »

here's a thought Paul.
You could have a prize for the most creative Fox .35 at the contest.........

~if it ain't fun, I ain't doin it~

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2016, 09:25:42 AM »

(and head look like Fox 35 Stunt products)
Paul, I think you need to clarify this a little. There are a lots of aftermarket bolt on parts made for the Fox 35 Stunt like the Hemi head, Smith head and Fox high compression free flight head, plus a few more. Also, all the older Fox 35 Rocket, 35X, 36X heads will bolt up to the Stunt case too. My suggestion would be to allow any head because of all the options that are available and it's easier to police.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2016, 10:24:06 AM »

If the engine has an original Fox 35 stunt crankcase, runs on suction and has the original plain bushed front bearing then that should be only inspection required.

We have not turned anyone away if they have the stuffer back plates, hemi-heads or different needle valves. In fact very few that we have seen are flying with the original Fox needle valves.

Fred

bob whitney · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2016, 10:31:32 AM »

should get extra points if using a Fox needle valve assbly

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2016, 11:24:08 AM »

(should get extra points if using a Fox needle valve assbly)
Would using it as a wing tip skid count?

Dave Edwards · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2016, 06:06:46 PM »

Can I use a fox 35 as wing tip weight and power it with a Nelson?

Paul Smith · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2016, 07:12:43 AM »

You are welcome to change the backplate, glow plug, NVA, bolts prop nut. Just use the Fox 35 Stunt crankcase & head.

If you are good enough to make a new piston, sleeve, rod, and crankshaft, you can rework the head from the inside.

If everyone who entered this discussion enters the contest the event will be a HUGE success.

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2016, 12:09:20 PM »

I want pictures.....all this gives new meaning to "lipstick on a pig"

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2016, 08:02:47 PM »

Here you go

bob whitney · « **Reply #15 on:** March 03, 2016, 08:11:18 PM »

looks more like my perky

Paul Smith · « **Reply #16 on:** March 04, 2016, 11:58:45 AM »

Maybe can have a "disallowed modified Fox 35 Stunt" class. No prize, just recognition.

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2016, 02:40:56 PM »

yah.....make it a "Big Daddy Roth Fox" Best monster award......
Put the fun into the event....I think this link has inspired more speed merchants than anything our AMA or special interest group has done in awhile.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #18 on:** March 04, 2016, 09:34:12 PM »

The rib blanks are the first step towards my Fox 35 plane. I had to settle for re-habed Perky in lieu of a new one to make a Fox plane.

Motorman · « **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2016, 09:43:43 PM »

LOL, another rule change, how many are scraping their billet heads right now?

MM

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09, 2016, 04:39:29 AM »

The information on the Brodak website says the contest will use St Louis Fox 35 rules. The St Louis Fox 35 rules allow for Hemi Heads so be careful on making rule changes on this forum. Any rules changes for a sanctioned contest need to be advertised to everyone thru the official sanction on the AMA calendar. These are basic guidelines that all CD's must follow.

There will be people showing up with non-stock Fox 35 heads that may not have read this forum

Fred

bob whitney · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2016, 07:58:27 AM »

i know of two

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2016, 09:48:36 AM »

Must not forget "secret rules"

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2016, 11:45:59 AM »

I would like to take a poll from all competitors and non-competitors on their opinion of whether this engine meets the St Louis Fox 35 speed rules, which will be used at Brodak.
Al

bob whitney · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2016, 01:30:07 PM »

looks good to me ,, Fox combat special slant plug head

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #25 on:** March 09, 2016, 04:39:37 PM »

if it looks like a skunk.....

Richard Imhoff · « **Reply #26 on:** March 09, 2016, 09:20:34 PM »

Here's one of my 35 racers with an old 36 plain bearing cyl & liner with the slant plug head cut down in diameter. Runs better in the fox stunt case that in the old shiny 36/29 case.

legal or not?

bob whitney · « **Reply #27 on:** March 09, 2016, 10:42:21 PM »

looks good,have u flown it yet??

Richard Imhoff · « **Reply #28 on:** March 09, 2016, 11:05:55 PM »

Not yet I have three to do some testing on and waiting for the white stuff to go away.
This picture was taken three days ago, notice the white crap on the porch.

Looks like this week end might be some flying weather as the snow is almost gone now.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2016, 09:24:33 AM »

Use a Fox 35 Stunt crankcase and head.
Modify them all you want.
An entirely different head is not a modified head.

Vent the tank to the atmosphere.

Have fun.

bob whitney · « **Reply #30 on:** March 10, 2016, 09:35:08 AM »

i would like to see combat special and the Hemi head aloud , both fox parts

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #31 on:** March 10, 2016, 10:45:24 AM »

I agree with the open head idea. It's not too difficult to figure a clamp button system though

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #32 on:** March 10, 2016, 03:03:14 PM »

Paul, Did you get the PM I sent a week or so ago? TS

Richard Imhoff · « **Reply #33 on:** March 10, 2016, 07:50:00 PM »

Well here is a baffle combat head and a stock 35 stunt head used as a clamp.

Looks legal to me.
I don't think i would worry to much about cylinder heads as Smith will be over turned by the masses at Brodak ,and it also states on Brodaks site that St Louis rules are what are being used so Paul has stepped on his foot by trying to change them because he don't have a hemi head for his motor.

All he is doing is killing a fun event by making foolish rule changes

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #34 on:** March 11, 2016, 09:43:04 AM »

I think helmets should be required.

(see Brodak combat thread)

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #35 on:** March 11, 2016, 10:13:51 AM »

here is the completed head for my Fox speed. A bit of work but I have great expectations.

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #36 on:** March 11, 2016, 11:31:41 AM »

Going to need a lot of shims to clear the baffle

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #37 on:** March 11, 2016, 12:00:19 PM »

Baffle isn't needed in this one. It is a little hard to start though, I set the ports at 66 deg....I think that's right. Anyway, I'll use this stuff if it remains balky.

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #38 on:** March 12, 2016, 08:41:56 AM »

OK Ken, I'll bite. What are you using for a piston and liner?

Paul Smith · « **Reply #39 on:** March 12, 2016, 08:46:50 AM »

Quote from: Russell Shaffer on March 12, 2016, 08:41:56 AM

OK Ken, I'll bite. What are you using for a piston and liner?

Nobody need ever know. The INSIDE of the engine is the free fire zone.

goozgog · « **Reply #40 on:** March 19, 2016, 02:36:44 PM »

Hello Paul,
   Well! This evolved FAST from me
entering my good Fox .35 Stunt on a small
airframe, to me dragging out boxes of 1960's
speed equipment and old combat engines
that I "inherited".
Some interesting Fox stuff that I've never really
considered.

  So, I went on Brodak's site and read the rules.
I can't find the "St. Louis rules". Can anyone
guide me to a link?
Also it says 60 foot 0.016 lines. Is that right?
Not 0.015?

  I know I can't use monoline or pressure,
but can I use....

A dolly?

A speed pan?

On board glow driver?

Asymmetrical wing?

A chamber?
I probably couldn't get
a pipe to work well in a short
time. I built a lot of pipes for
my race bikes back in the day,
so I might try if it's legal.

I'd like to adapt some of this old
speed stuff if I can to save time.

Cheers! - K.

OOps! Just found the St. Louis rules.
Yikes!
Please forgive my previous babbling.

Fox 35 Speed rules
This event is to encourage anyone with an
airplane with a Fox 35 STUNT
engine to get involved in an entry level speed event.

1.
The only engine for this event is a Fox 35 stunt engine,
NO Fox 35 Combat motors, engine must run on suction,
No pressure fuel systems, engine can be modified ,
but must remain plain bearing for the crankshaft.
Needle valve can be changed.

2.
Model may be either a full fuselage or profile,
suggestions include:

Skyray,

Flitestreak,

Ringmaster,

or similar models.

3.
Minimum
one (1) wheel, plane must ROG,
any dia
. No dollies!

4.
Spinner okay or acorn prop nut.

5.
Commercially
available propellers only.

6.
The flying wires shall be 60 feet in length
as measured from the center of the fuselage to
the center of the control handle Only

2 wire control systems allowed,
no monolines.

7.
The flying wires are to
be .016 solid steel music wire.

8.
Pull test of 16 g’s shall be applied to
the model, flying wires, handle
, and safety thong
prior to each attempt.

9.
Model will
be timed for 1 mile,
14 laps from point of release.

10.
Pilot is not required to use the AMA speed pylon.

11.
Contestant will be given
four (4) attempts to complete three (3)
official flights.

12.
Awards are to be for 1st, 2nd, 3rd
and best average speed.

13.
All other safety rules in the AMA rule book apply.

14.
Fuel will be provided per AMA Rules

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #41 on:** March 19, 2016, 02:53:29 PM »

St Louis Fox 35 speed rules

https://lafayetteesquadrillecl.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/fox-35-speed-rules-rev-a.pdf

goozgog · « **Reply #42 on:** March 19, 2016, 02:56:18 PM »

Thanks Fred,

The only problem
will be finding 0.016
solid lines.

Cheers! - K.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #43 on:** March 19, 2016, 02:57:37 PM »

You got the rules right....any airplane can be used, but it must have at least one wheel. If I could make a Cox PT-19 stay together for 14 laps with a Fox 35 in the nose I would fly it...but I scratch built my own airplane.

Good luck!

Fred

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #44 on:** March 19, 2016, 02:59:13 PM »

I ordered my lines from Melvin in Kansas...

http://www.mbsmodelsupply.com/Catalog.pdf

Here is my video on how to wrap the solid lines....

Fred

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #45 on:** March 19, 2016, 03:04:05 PM »

Hopefully someone does this at the Brodak contest, but we always have a set of lines available to use if a pilot does not have a set of solid lines. John Moll and myself can make our flying lines available at the St Louis contests if a pilot did not have a set of .016 dia solid lines.

Multiple pilots have told me they don't want to or can't be bothered to make a set of lines for the contest so when we offer to use our lines it makes it easy for them to enter the contest. Making the lines can be a pain so I understand that, that is why we make our personal set of flying lines available for anyone who needs it.

Fred

goozgog · « **Reply #46 on:** March 19, 2016, 03:12:38 PM »

Hello and thanks again Fred,

I'm here reading down the past
posts about Fox Speed, so I'm
learning a lot.
My mistake looking on the Brodak
site for complete rules.

I'm not sure if I understood
what Paul is saying.
Are 0.018 stranded allowed?

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #47 on:** March 19, 2016, 04:57:33 PM »

The information posted on the Brodak website says they are going to use St Louis Fox 35 speed rules, so having said that, they really should have a link to the rules on our club website but they don't.

Because the Brodak website says they are going to use St Louis Fox 35 speed rules the only lines that are legal are the .016 solids. Because this is a speed event the solid lines need to be used. The Brodak CD would need to revise the sanction to allow .018 braided lines since they have already advertised that the St Louis rules will be used. Once you have advertised one set of rules you can't change the rules on the fly, other pilots would have a legal protest if rules are changed on the fly.

Fred

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #48 on:** March 20, 2016, 02:00:33 PM »

I see that John Moll and Bill Hughes (well respected guys) are NOT using the fox 35 stunt head on their entries at the Ice-O-Lated contest this year. So if they came to Brodak to compete they would be DISQUALIFIED as per what Paul Smith wrote earlier. I do not agree with him on this. I'm writing this because I think Brodak should be in sync with the rest of the country that is using the St Louis Fox 35 speed rules.
Opinions please.
Al

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #49 on:** March 20, 2016, 02:35:24 PM »

I would agree, the Brodak website says they will be using the St Louis rules so that means they can not make any changes. If they do not agree with the St Louis rules then they need to write their own rules but that means changing the AMA sanction that says they will be using the St Louis rules. If you look on the AMA website it also says the Brodak fly-in will be using the St Louis rules.

You are right, John, Bill and myself would all be told that are engines do not meet the rules they are using, If I was there I would protest to the CD and claim that the sanction says that they are using the St Louis rules and those same rules allow for the HEMI heads. Hate to put on my lawyer hat but as a CD myself you have to live to the rules that you have advertised on the AMA sanction and you can not make any changes on the fly.

Fred