Author Topic: Brodak Fox 35 speed (Read 24322 times)

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #50 on:** February 19, 2016, 11:49:47 AM »

Paul, so are you saying a competitor can use any engine he wants as long as it has some kind of Fox 35 stunt skin or veneer on it with a plain bearing crank? That's going to make the speed in this event way too fast especially for Brodak. The Fox 35 stunt case all by it self will limit the speed of this event, as long as the modification does not deform the outside look of the case.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #51 on:** February 19, 2016, 02:01:26 PM »

Al, I fully understand your very valid points.

But I don't see any way to address your issues AND us Saint Louis Rules.

Even the Fox 35 crankcase is outside the St. Louis rules.

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #52 on:** February 19, 2016, 05:09:59 PM »

Fred, Thank you for your reply. I agree completely and am looking forward to spring testing and the couple of meets that I/we can get to. Look forward to meeting you. TS

Dave Edwards · « **Reply #53 on:** February 19, 2016, 05:44:01 PM »

Personally, I am interested to see what crazy stuff can be crammed into a fox 35 case. I am putting in a box stock motor from my fox racer. The delta between my time and the winner's will be telling. I am guessing 5mph improvement per hour of engine work applied. Lots of hours between now and Brodak. What do you think?

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #54 on:** February 19, 2016, 08:44:29 PM »

These are the only mods we have seen after two years of running this contest:

different needle valves
Hemi-Heads
stuffer back plates
some have reported changing the timing with the ports
inside diameter of the venturi was slightly enlarged

There have not been changes we have seen to the crankcase.......really don't over think this. If you really think about the number of truly stock Fox 35 Stunt engines they few and far between. That is why the rules allow for modifications. Give it a chance and see what shows up at flying site in June.

These are the only inspections that should be done before someone flies

1) Fox 35 Stunt engine with suction fuel system and still has the plain bearing, all other mods are allowed
2) At least one wheel on the model
3) .016 solid lines with 60' center to center length

I hope this helps. It amazes me that lots of people are having a hard time understanding just how flexible the rules are. We are so use to the rigid rules in other events that when we are given a chance to create something that we want to fly it is really refreshing. When I built my model I decided to have one wheel made the model really small by my standards. The wing span on my model is smaller than the elevator span on one of my large CL scale models. At our last Fox 35 speed event the models ranged from a super small speed looking model, a ringmaster, and other variations made from political sign materials.

Keep an open mind and let it play out, I really think some of the gloom and doom predictions are unwarranted. My next Fox 35 Speed model just might look like a Cox PT19! I also have a set of old speed model plans from the 1960's that I think I can cram a Fox 35 Stunt into.

Fred

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #55 on:** February 19, 2016, 08:50:09 PM »

   I've been following this thread for a while and enjoying it. As a stunt guy, I plan on building a plane for the event and have my list of stuff to do to the engine. Most of you sound like die hard speed guys and used to working on "speed" engines or building your own, and may have never really looked at a Fox .35 stunt.
   When the engine first came out and through out it's life span, there have been some cosmetic exterior changes but the "inside numbers" have never changed. One advantage of the engine for stunt that made it a success was it's light weight. Light weight means not much metal in the crank case. Not much metal means you can do too much hogging on it with a Dremel tool or you'll go right through it! Not much room at the main bearing to try to put a needle bearing in there either. I know that would be the gauntlet of challenge to some to say "Just watch me!" but it just won't be worth the time and money spent for the effort. This won't be an official NATS event to no big national glory for the winners. It will be just what it is intended to be, a fun event for the guys that like to tinker with what they have available to them. There are lots of week links to the Fox.35 that I won't go into here. I've worked on lots of them for stunt models and while no great expert, I can get them to run well for stunt where most guys have issues. And trying to skin a real fast engine with a Fox coat just won't be practical. I have watched and timed many speed events that we have held here at Buder park and spent a lot of time talking with the contestants and have come away with one important aspect that will tell the tale at any Fox .35 event. The answer to more speed, after you get a consistent and reliable engine, will be centered around the prop and air frame. Time spent trying to come up with another 100o RPM might be better spent working on props and a airplane! I just intend to see how fast I can go with the basic engine with some of the mods I know how to do, and learn what I need to learn about speed props. I think the biggest factor to level the playing field is using Fox friendly fuel at a fixed nitro content, which translates into club provided fuel for the event.
   Now just gotta find the time to build the airplane and get to work on an engine!
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #56 on:** February 20, 2016, 05:28:41 PM »

Today, I did some baseline bench runs on two healthy Fox 35 Stunt engines. The only non-stock additions are the Fox Stuffer backplate and one has a R.S. NVA. I used an APC 8x8 and Powermaster 10/29 Fuel.
One reached 11,700 RPM ; the other 11,800 RPM.
By rough calculation, I believe that'll it cost $75-$100 per every 1000 RPM increase. So, roughly $300- $400 beyond the cost of the box stock 35 Stunt. And this is just the engine.
I'm not saying this to discourage anyone from trying this event- it sounds like fun and I might try it. Also, I'm not trying to anger anyone. Definitely not casting dispersions on the upcoming Brodak event or the St.Louis rules . What would help is if there were more events to make it cost effective and help amortize things; so to speak.
Appears that one needs to spin at least 15,000 RPM -or more to be competitive.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #57 on:** February 20, 2016, 07:20:31 PM »

Hi Frank;
Those numbers aren't bad. What makes you think either one of those engines wouldn't be "competitive?" You are using stock components for the most part and off the shelf prop and fuel. With some work on a few props and a decent model, who knows how fast it would be on a given day. And this is kind of what the event is all about, how fast it will be on a given day. I don't think too many people will travel any distance to just fly Fox.35 speed. But as a fill in, fun event, it gives a guy something else to fly, and for the contests where there are multiple disciplines, another area for a guy, say like me who primarily flies stunt, a chance to ease into something else. I have always like and admired speed, and have timed who knows how many flights here at our speed contest. But trying one of the many events has just eluded me due to time and money. This is an event where I already have a lot of what I need, except spare time, but I'm working on it! The first time we held the event at last year's speed contest, I entered an old Ringmaster with an engine that had a hemi head and stuffer back plate. I didn't have much time to try a lot of different props, and I don't remember what my speed was, but I wasn't in last place! One of the ways I think this event will work well is the standing start. That can be kind of tricky and presents a challenge to us newbies. I gotta get to work getting my work bench cleaned off and some other irons out of the fire so I can get going on a plane.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #58 on:** February 22, 2016, 09:28:52 AM »

That thar's funny Bob......

Paul Smith · « **Reply #59 on:** February 22, 2016, 11:56:07 AM »

Frank,

If you could honestly offer 1,000 RPM per $100, there are guys who would ante up $2,000 for an extra 20,000. No questions asked.

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #60 on:** February 22, 2016, 03:11:46 PM »

I can make a Fox stunt run at 20,000 RPM.
I get to select the prop though.

Read some stuff I wrote for the LA 25 proto event and apply it to a Fox. Get some of that stuff Bob designed for the engine and be a winner. Since it's a proto event, build a super light model and remember the basics...most easy increase in power is in the prop.

gotta go watch the movie "Grumpy Old Men"

Paul Smith · « **Reply #61 on:** February 22, 2016, 06:37:09 PM »

Ann Margret and Daryl Hannah. Who wouldn't watch that?

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #62 on:** February 23, 2016, 03:25:46 PM »

I'll start by saying that I hear there is a new guy on the block. I heard the team name but don't know who the members are, except they will be at Brodak and have already claimed to be the winner of the Fox Speed event.
If anybody know who they are send me a note.
The team name is:
Bo Diddley Speed Team.
I was sent this through a 3rd party email so I cannot tell who it is.

eric david conley · « **Reply #63 on:** February 23, 2016, 05:51:37 PM »

Looks like a Fox 35 to me.

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #64 on:** February 23, 2016, 08:43:30 PM »

(they will be at Brodak and have already claimed to be the winner of the Fox Speed event)
I don't know if they should give them the trophy just yet

. My engine in it's initial testing, is putting out some amazing RPMs

I can't wait to do some test flying when the weather breaks

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #65 on:** February 24, 2016, 06:30:57 AM »

Finally, a proper Fox!! I'm thinkin' of a mysterious substance to rub on my airframe to help it slip through the air. Or, maybe, carry a hydrogen tank to decrease weight. Lotsa weird thinking going on during this cold NJ winter.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #66 on:** February 24, 2016, 07:16:47 AM »

This is consistant with what was allowed to happen to Profile Carrier in 1976.

It went from "a stock plain bearing 36 RC engine" to "a plain bearing 36" to just plain "a 36". The four guys who still fly the event think it's OK.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #67 on:** February 24, 2016, 09:38:30 AM »

Quote from: Al Ferraro on February 23, 2016, 08:43:30 PM

(they will be at Brodak and have already claimed to be the winner of the Fox Speed event)
I don't know if they should give them the trophy just yet . My engine in it's initial testing, is putting out some amazing RPMs I can't wait to do some test flying when the weather breaks

I hope the picture is just a PhotoShop prank.

Maybe we need to put a lid on such foolishness by requiring (as a minimum) that the engine fit into a standard Fox 35 Stunt mounting profile, which is to say: bolt holes, crankcase size and backplate flanges.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #68 on:** February 24, 2016, 10:34:17 AM »

I like the way some guys are trying to come up with a winner. By the way when Fox came out with his last carrier engine it was discovered to be over size. Weren't the rules changed to allow up to a 40?

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #69 on:** February 24, 2016, 10:42:33 AM »

Just to be clear the St Louis Rules were set up to only use the Fox 35 Stunt. The combat or other versions of the engine are not allowed, I know that John Moll would not allow the two engines that are pictured above to be used at any St Louis event

Fred

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #70 on:** February 24, 2016, 11:38:20 AM »

I agree
Meet me in St Louie...Louie.

eric david conley · « **Reply #71 on:** February 24, 2016, 11:55:23 AM »

Fred, yet John Moll would allow a engine that the only part that was a Fox 35 stunt engine was the crank case? Eric

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #72 on:** February 24, 2016, 12:11:45 PM »

Quote from: eric david conley on February 24, 2016, 11:55:23 AM

...yet John Moll would allow a engine that the only part that was a Fox 35 stunt engine was the crank case? Eric

That's how the rules are written. That's how it worked the first time around with Eric Williams' Formula Fox challenge. That's what hot rodders do. So, what's the issue?

BTW, the only OEM Ford Flathead part used on the race engine was the iron block. That's what hot rodders do.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #73 on:** February 24, 2016, 12:48:58 PM »

Bob

I have never flown a speed event but as I read this long thread it occurred to me that the ubiquitous Fox 35 stunt was just like 50s~60s car engines with a lot of potential within the rules

These are the only inspections that should be done before someone flies

1) Fox 35 Stunt engine with suction fuel system and still has the plain bearing, all other mods are allowed
2) At least one wheel on the model
3) .016 solid lines with 60' center to center length

Lighter stronger crank
Slightly larger bore
Maybe de-stroke or over stroke
optimize fuel delivery and exhaust
Head shape
Porting
Timing
specialty coatings....ceramic piston tops.... Slippery skirts High performance coatings did this for my Harley pistons
Make ringed pistons and use zero gap rings.... Total performance did this from my Harley pistons

Perfectly mated crank shaft bearing and bronze bushed nose bearing ground to micro fine clearance

Total loss pressure OIL system just for nose bearing.... Back side of crank running an o-ring so OIL does not dilute fuel and bladder pressure OIL to the nose for duration of the run

This is jut off top of my head with out even considering cheating with Faux Fox 35 castings

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #74 on:** February 24, 2016, 01:06:54 PM »

Some folks will fully understand

My 1965 first car ( 65 Ranchero) had Ford High Performance 289 CI V8 with (HI PO was a 4BBL carb) that reportedly had 225 HP

I did a bunch of Hot Rod Magazine mods .... over bore x .040, Kieth Black hyper eutectic pistons, Crowler Cam (forget the timing and duration's) Ed Pinks Crank shaft...de stroked, Aluminum heads ( larger exhaust and SMALLER intakes), Roller rockers and lifters, Offenhauser Intake and Holly 650 double pumper carburetor, Tacoma Speed works did most of the engine machining.. decks flat, and lowered, line bored the cam and crank journals, and I think there is a LOT I am miss remembering...

Tacoma speed had a chassis dyno and this combo into a Borg Warner T-10 that I made into a Super T-10 (larger diameter main shaft and bearings) out to a 4.10:1 posi rear gear set with Mickey Thompson N-50/15s produced 487HP...

I took it to PIR and SIR several times and was a real ground ponder but the pinion shaft was weak link and I snapped a lot of them before moving to a TRUCK drive shaft and ended with 3.88:1 gears for 12.34 ETs in the 1/4

You can not do that today with most moder engines but in the day of the Fox 35....lots of power adders are worth trying... even with a inferior crank case design and lakc of materiel to work with

I have a few older Fox 35s I might just pay with for fun...until they explode all over my test stand....grin

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #75 on:** February 24, 2016, 01:13:38 PM »

Have at it!

For those of you who are so inclined, George Moir authored a build article in the March 1955 issue of Model Airplane News for his Rambler AMA Team Racer. He included a companion article on his motor set-up, including a step-by-step rework guide, detail drawings, and before & after photos. It's a good starting point. Plus, buy a decent degree wheel.

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #76 on:** February 24, 2016, 01:21:57 PM »

Fred, That's good stuff!

Sidebar: What Harley?

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #77 on:** February 24, 2016, 03:04:31 PM »

Bob my first was a 77 FLH (AMF) that SUXed and put me off Harley for a long time on Metric bikes

I owned many of the fastest production bikes there were in the 80s and 90s

I got a 93 FXR in Germany on Military sales for a exceptional price but needed much more HP for the AutoBahn
So I reworked the 80CI EvoLoution 42 HP engine to get over 90HP with the correct mods keeping it near 82 CI

I sold it to a friend and he and I are re-working it again to be a born again street ponder

This bike is over geared with a large(est) tanny drive sprocket and smallest wheel drive made (34 tooth Andrews on the tranny and German 60 tooth 0n the wheel)....getting the correct belt was a challenge

Funny..... $8K for basic bike... $ 10K in mods back then...today we have another $6k invested to just make it idle properly....

HP and reliability costs big BUX$$$$$$$

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #78 on:** February 24, 2016, 03:53:12 PM »

Fred,

Cool. Thanks.

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #79 on:** February 24, 2016, 04:23:35 PM »

I'm gonna get me a pair of Harley mittens!

Cool graphics on the Fox .29 timing specs.

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #80 on:** February 24, 2016, 05:06:54 PM »

Hey. I'm enjoying the cool graphics on those two Custom 'FOX STUNT' motors!! Bob. If you want to see Flatties in action check out the ECTA meets in Willmington, Ohio. Some BAD stuff there! TS (aka PRT)

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #81 on:** February 25, 2016, 09:49:49 AM »

Quote from: C.T. Schaefer on February 24, 2016, 05:06:54 PM

Hey. I'm enjoying the cool graphics on those two Custom 'FOX STUNT' motors!! Bob. If you want to see Flatties in action check out the ECTA meets in Willmington, Ohio. Some BAD stuff there! TS (aka PRT)

C.T., 1 hour SE from Dayton. I should have already done this. Thanks for the reminder.

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #82 on:** February 25, 2016, 03:24:12 PM »

This is a bit off thread but..... If we were going I would be sure to meet up out there. This year we are going to Maine the following week. Hope for some good Ju-Ju up there! Also, one of the principles up there is a cl flyer from NY. Joe Daly Sr. In the meantime, will be working on the Fox powered machine.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #83 on:** April 03, 2016, 10:33:04 AM »

I had posted the suggestion quite awhile back to do simple Fox 35 stunt speed event, at first it was "Oh No Anything but a Fox 35". I left it at that, seems some others have ran with it and here we are. I like the idea of the 95+ speed as us more senior flyers can do that, maybe a little longer lines, but OK for now. I also like the phase or class idea that Paul posted. Could be just two, stock and unlimited, but the three work, good starting point. Maybe average best two flights from the three officials, would then require reliability and no one run wonders. As time allows I hope to build one and have some fun.

Best, DennisT

Motorman · « **Reply #84 on:** April 10, 2016, 07:57:07 PM »

What's the spec fuel for Brodaks, what oil?

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #85 on:** April 10, 2016, 08:31:58 PM »

If they are following St. Louis rules, it's standard Fox .35 fuel, 25% all castor and 5% nitro. That is the fuel we've used at our contests so far, all SIG fuel I believe.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #86 on:** April 11, 2016, 06:30:38 AM »

A previous post from Fred in St. Louis states 25 castor/ 10 nitro. That's what we will use in Middlesex and, I am sure, Brodak. TS

Paul Smith · « **Reply #87 on:** April 11, 2016, 07:42:30 AM »

I plan to provide Ritch's Brew fuel with 10% nitro and a variety of oil content, 29, 23, 20 and 17.

Brad LaPointe · « **Reply #88 on:** April 11, 2016, 07:53:15 AM »

All this event needs to tone it down is $100.00 claiming rule . Any "Fox" worth more than that isn't a Fox .

Brad

bob whitney · « **Reply #89 on:** April 11, 2016, 08:21:11 AM »

Put me down for gall of 20% and one of 29% Bob

Motorman · « **Reply #90 on:** April 11, 2016, 08:41:47 AM »

Is that Ritch's Brew all castor oil?

Thanks,
MM

P.S. Is there going to be a trophy or something?

P.P.S. Claiming rule: all my engines will be tuned for max power and explode on lap 16.

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #91 on:** April 11, 2016, 09:42:42 AM »

Quote from: Brad LaPointe on April 11, 2016, 07:53:15 AM

All this event needs to tone it down is $100.00 claiming rule . Any "Fox" worth more than that isn't a Fox .

Brad

"Not a real green dress...That's cruel..."

Ken Burdick · « **Reply #92 on:** April 11, 2016, 12:51:29 PM »

I can live with 100.00.
Fox .35....value 10.00
Aluminum .70 / lb USD

My machine time.....worthless

K

Motorman · « **Reply #93 on:** April 11, 2016, 02:38:51 PM »

Quote from: Ken Burdick on April 11, 2016, 12:51:29 PM

I can live with 100.00.
Fox .35....value 10.00
Aluminum .70 / lb USD

My machine time.....worthless

K

But you have to win for someone to want it.

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #94 on:** April 11, 2016, 04:48:22 PM »

Quote from: Paul Smith on April 11, 2016, 07:42:30 AM

I plan to provide Ritch's Brew fuel with 10% nitro and a variety of oil content, 29, 23, 20 and 17.

For a contest, that is exactly what you should NOT do. There should be just one fuel provided only. That is one of the things that levels the playing field a bit. All these monstrosities that are being cobbled together is what kills fun and entry level events. The idea of this event is to try and get people interested in participating in speed. The Fox .35 Stunt is kind of the 6 cylinder Chevy of the model engine world, and the challenge is to get as much out of it as you can. This will never be a NATS event, never a world champs event, just something else to fly when you travel to a contest and see how well you do against the guys there on that particular day. At first the idea of the event was kind of poo pooed here on this list, and now guys are spending all sorts of time and wasting good parts for other engines just to show off that you can do it. Why not just try and stay within the spirit of the intent of the event? If it were me I would put that time and effort into one of the more established and significant speed events and just see what I can get out of standard engine parts for the Fox .35 event. As a stunt flyer that has a lot of experience with the Fox .35 in that discipline, I will take a lot of satisfaction home knowing that, if my model does well, I did it all the old fashioned way. That is the challenge in my book. The beauty of this event, in my view, is using the engine we picked, and using the fuel we picked. The Fox .35 Stunt isn't the best as far as quality is concerned, depending on what vintage engine you have. It's real light, not much metal to work with, and the case is as soft as a sponge so you can't force it to do too much. Duke designed it that way, and it's light weight is what attracted lot to stunt guys in the first place. If you use OEM stock parts, you need to use the 25% all castor fuel. That is what the engine was designed around, and can also be a limiting factor in how the engine performs as as well, as I'm sure you guys know, and tends to level the playing field a bit. If you fly other events that are flown with club provided fuel, I'm sure there is no choice of oil or nitro there, at least as far as I have seen. So I challenge every one to just try and stay within the spirit of the intent of the event. Build up an engine using the stock OEM parts and do with them what you will, and see what you can do
Unless you don't think you can do it?
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Motorman · « **Reply #95 on:** April 11, 2016, 07:01:36 PM »

Dan I agree there should be one fuel which should be 10 nitro 25 castor. On everything else you said I disagree. This event has attracted top competitors and I can't wait to see their excellent equipment perform. I didn't see any spirit and intent written in the rules and all my stuff conforms to the rules as written. I have flown speed at major contests and I've built an engine using the OEM parts that performs very well. I'm moving into more exotic mods and many are doing the same. This contest has a vintage vibe that has given CL speed a much needed boost.

MM

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #96 on:** April 11, 2016, 08:29:06 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on April 11, 2016, 07:01:36 PM

Dan I agree there should be one fuel which should be 10 nitro 25 castor. On everything else you said I disagree. This event has attracted top competitors and I can't wait to see their excellent equipment perform. I didn't see any spirit and intent written in the rules and all my stuff conforms to the rules as written. I have flown speed at major contests and I've built an engine using the OEM parts that performs very well. I'm moving into more exotic mods and many are doing the same. This contest has a vintage vibe that has given CL speed a much needed boost.

MM

Then don't kill the "vintage vibe" by using modern technology! As thin and light as the .35 Stunt case is, I'm surprised that you were able to bore it out for other liners. You can only drill out the venturi by so much before there isn't sufficient metal to support tightening the spray bar!. Many stunt flyers have drown to hate the engine because of the bad runs they got, not realizing that they caused it by bolting the engine to a crooked and uneven motor mount and distorting the case. But the engine has a lot of history and is abig part of model aviation history. I've done some other racing, motorcycles and karts, but never had a big budget to work with, so I always had to work harder to be successful, and part of being successful, to me is finishing well and having fun. Part of the fun was beating the guys who spent wheel barrows full of money and had flashy equipment with my plain Jane garage specials every once in a while. It's pretty much the same thing now. I have always been interested in speed, and have been helping run our contest here in St. Louis for many years now, just never had the extra time and budget to get into it to any extent. I have learned through the experience of working the contests that speed is an event that requires tedious attention to small details and with my other interests I would have to exclude other endeavors that I don't want to give up. This Fox .35 Stunt class will give me a chance to dabble in the event a bit with out much expense because I already have most of what I need. I think there are a lot of guys like me that feel the same way, but will get turned off if they know they are having to run up against pros with full machine shops that are trying to turn the lowly little Fox .35 into a Ferrari. Like I mentioned before, almost every "entry level" event I have heard of has gone the path of being elevated to much more that what was intended. EZ-B in indoor free flight, slow combat, P-40 stunt, are just a few I can think of off the top of my head and I'm sure there are more. As hard as it is getting people interested in any aspect of model airplanes, and specifically control line and it's different disciplines, I just don't see the need to drive people off before the event really gets going.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Paul Smith · « **Reply #97 on:** April 12, 2016, 06:37:12 AM »

The 29% is all castor. The others are castor/synthetic blend.

In "real" events, like F1C, F2A or F2D, the FAI can dictate a fuel the world designs engines to deal with it.

But this is a casual fun event designed to let people use what they've got or make a special "Fox". 29% might be what an old loose Fox needs, but way too much oil for a tight new AAC Nelson-Fox. I think just one fuel would work great for somebody and hurt everybody else. I'm sticking with 10% nitro and a choice of oil.

I hope at lease half the people in this discussion actually compete.

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #98 on:** April 12, 2016, 10:44:00 AM »

With all the hub-bub about Fox many people have forgotten that the Perky event will also be flown at the same time. So, because of the wide diversity in Perky engine choices, Pauls fuel choice plan is spot on. I for one will not be using 18% oil in my olde Fox or 29% castor in my Perky. TS

bob whitney · « **Reply #99 on:** April 12, 2016, 11:26:32 AM »

my thoughts exactly