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Author Topic: A single engine B-17 to model  (Read 1320 times)

Offline Clancy Arnold

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A single engine B-17 to model
« on: March 23, 2010, 07:49:23 AM »
If you would like an unusual B-17 to model here is a good one.
5 engines and flying on just one engine.  Think of a profile with a 40 up front.
Clancy
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Offline Robert McHam

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 10:13:58 AM »
What a good idea that is. Should have thought it myself when I saw this photoshopped version of this plane on one of those 'guess the mystery plane' threads on another forum.

Robert
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 03:35:43 PM by Robert McHam »
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline John Witt

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 01:55:57 PM »
Another interesting engine test bed model was the B-47 used to test a twin turboprop configuration. Joe Martin, who started the Sherline tools company built and flew a model of it. Here's a link to the Sherline site, which has a lot of interesting things, including this picture of a much younger Joe and his model:

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/joecover800.jpg

John W
John Witt
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Online John Rist

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 02:12:18 PM »
If you would like an unusual B-17 to model here is a good one.
5 engines and flying on just one engine.  Think of a profile with a 40 up front.
Clancy

Do you still get the multi engine points for non running engines?   n~
John Rist
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Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 06:00:50 PM »
John
Sorry!  The Multi engine points are proportional to the time all engines are running.
Clancy
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Offline Thomas Wilk

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 07:57:18 AM »
here is another view of the 5 engines prototype.

Tom Wilk  S?P S?P

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 10:07:49 AM »
The twin turbo prop B47 was featured in M.A.N. as a CL project. As I recall it was in the same issue as Frank McMillan's "Gambler" stunter. I think that was April 1959.
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Online John Rist

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 12:24:52 PM »
How about one gas and 4 electrics?  One of the monuvers could be 4 engines out - fly on one.

 y1
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Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2010, 01:28:19 PM »
John
In Control Line Sport Scale for event 509.
Page SC-7, Section 11.4:  Please read the whole rule.  The rules on mixed power plants say that the electric(s) must be providing a significant part of the actual flight power and you may be requested to demonstrate that they are.

In Control Line Scale rules Section 4.  Judging the Flight,
Page SC-11, Section 4.14:  Other Scale operations/Flight Maneuvers Not Listed.  A contestant may elect to perform a scale operation or an optional flight maneuver of choice, provided it is within the capabilities of the prototype aircraft.   Such a maneuver should be explained to the judges before flight.  A short description of the maneuver may be requested by the judges.


Beware of Page SC-12 Section 4.17:  Engine Control (option).  This needs to be addressed prior to flying, that one or more of the engines will be stopped and later restarted as part of the flight option demonstration.
Clancy Arnold
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Offline Thomas Wilk

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2010, 02:51:50 PM »
Boeing B-47D Stratojet * mag. 1958 MAN May p10 * span 54.00 * area 275.00 * power .15x2 * Scale * plan FSP05582 * designed by Parks, Bob L.

send me an email off forum for the scans of the magazine construction article.

[tawilk636@live.com]

Tom Wilk

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2010, 09:05:20 PM »
I have the plans and keep looking at them every so often.  They used to fly over our farm in Calhoun MO back in 60-62. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2010, 02:02:58 PM »
Note,

Keith Trostle flies a profile scale model of the two turbo-prop B-47(? whatever leter it was...) test aircraft. I believe he has scored well at NATS 1/2A or Profile Scale "a few times..." Power: a pair of NorVels - or AMEs.

Believed to still be flyable, but 'superceded in service' by his Tu 'Bear.' I don't thnk this B-47 model dates back to 1958-59...

\BEST\LOU

Online Trostle

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2010, 04:45:50 PM »
Note,

Keith Trostle flies a profile scale model of the two turbo-prop B-47(? whatever leter it was...) test aircraft. I believe he has scored well at NATS 1/2A or Profile Scale "a few times..." Power: a pair of NorVels - or AMEs.

Believed to still be flyable, but 'superceded in service' by his Tu 'Bear.' I don't thnk this B-47 model dates back to 1958-59...



Lou,

Thanks for remembering my XB-47D.  This was built in the late 1990's for a 1/2A profile scale contest at Supulveda.  Power is by two Norvel Big Mig .049 RC engines.  It has placed well at a few contests here in the Southwest and was third at the 2000 Nats in Profile Scale.

The scale is 1/36 or 1" = 3'.  Span is about 38 inches and length is about the same, so it is smaller than the Cub 14 powered model by Bob Parks in the 1958 Model Airplane News.  There were two of the full size XB-47D aircraft built by Boeing from modified B-47B's as test beds for the Curtiss Wright turboprop engines which produced 9,700 horsepower each.

Second picture shows the B-47 with the Tupolev Tu-95 Bear built to the same scale with four Norvel .061 Big Mig engines for the 1/2A profile multi-engine profile scale contest held here in Tucson.  Plans are that the Bear is retired.   

Offline Mike Keville

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2010, 06:05:36 PM »
...and here (hopefully) is a shot of Keith's TU-95 flying --- or, as we like to say, "the Bear in the air".

mk
FORMER member, "Academy of Multi-rotors & ARFs".

Offline Elwyn Aud

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2010, 11:05:52 PM »
One of the 5 engined B-17's is still active. It flies today as the "Liberty Bell". It took a lot of work to get it back in the original configuration since the cockpit had been moved back some distance for the turboprop installation. I seem to remember reading something about it getting damaged in a tornado while on outside display in some museum before being rebuilt to the factory delivered configuration.

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2010, 07:39:04 AM »
You are correct!
Here is some more info on the two 5 engined B-17's.

The B-17G (SN 44-85734)[2] did not see combat in World War II, and was originally sold on June 25, 1947 as scrap to Esperado Mining Co. of Altus, OK, it sold again later that year to Pratt & Whitney for $2,700. Pratt & Whitney operated the B-17 from November 19, 1947 to 1967 as a heavily modified test bed for their P&W T34 turboprop engine under the registration N-5111N [3]. Similar to registration numbers 44-85747 and 44-85813 [4], it became a “5-engine aircraft”, having the powerful prototype engine mounted on the nose. The aircraft was flown “single-engine,” with all four radial engines feathered during test flights. Following the test flights, it was donated to the Connecticut Aeronautical Historic Association, where a tornado on October 3, 1979 blew another aircraft onto the B-17’s mid-section, breaking the fuselage.
B-17 44-85734 was eventually purchased by aviation enthusiast Don Brooks who formed the Liberty Foundation to exhibit the plane as the "Liberty Belle." Restoration began in 1992 with parts from another damaged B-17 (44-85813). Restoration by Tom Reilly and company/Flying Tigers Warbird Restoration Museum (aka "Bombertown USA") located at that time at Kissimmee Gateway field Kissimmee, FL. Evidence of the rebuild may be seen in very professional stringer splices aft of the waist gun positions. She returned to the air December 8 2004, and has been touring the air show circuit since then. The Liberty Foundation also planned a historic overseas tour in July 2008 along the northern ferry route to England.
12/31/2009. After WW II, two Vega-built B-17Gs were drastically modified as flying test beds for engines, so a revised Boeing model number of 299Z was assigned to these airframes. The military features were removed, the pilot's compartment was moved aft, and the nose was modified to accommodate the test engine. Each turbo-prop test engine was more powerful than all four standard engines operating together.

The first, s/n 44-85813, was leased to Curtiss-Wright from October 1945, being converted by Boeing in 1946, after which it was designated EB-17G by the USAAC. Test flights with the XT-35 turboprop started in September 1947, tests with the J65 Sapphire jet engine started in 1951. The designation was changed to JB-17G in 1956, while the aircraft was sold to Curtiss-Wright on August 30, 1957, registered as N6694C. Thereafter an R-3350 radial engine was fitted in the nose for propeller research, last engine tested was the T-64G turbine-prop.

Curtiss-Wright sold the aircraft and subsequently it was registered to Ewing Aviation from December 1, 1966, Ewing-Kolb Aircraft from August 15, 1969, Arnold Kolb/Black Hills Aviation from July 30, 1970. The latter had the aircraft fitted with a standard forward fuselage, that was taken from s/n 44-83316, and used it as an aerial tanker, listed as number C12; it crashed near Bear Pen, North Carolina on April 16, 1980.

The wreckage was bought by Tom Reilly Vintage Aircraft in 1985, and parts were used to restore 44-85734/N5111N (mentioned below). The remaining wreckage was obtained for another B-17 project, and is presently registered as N3154S to Tech II, being rebuilt to airworthiness using parts of B-17s, s/n 44-85813, 44-83316, 44-83525, and 44-83722.

The pictured second engine test bed is described in photo 6021.

"JB-17G 1945 = Civil and USAF test-bed for an added 6000hp P&W XT34 "Turbo-Wasp," Wright XT-35, Wright R-3350, and Allison T-56 POP: 3 [N5111N, 44-85747, x]. While results were encouraging, the armistice and dawn of the jet age curbed the project."

"JB-17G-VE B-17G s/n 44-85813. Flying test aircraft. Civil registered N6694C and later N5111N "

"This particular B-17 was modified by Boeing for Pratt & Whitney to become a postwar engine testbed. Operated as N5111N, the airframe was substantially modified to accept a large radial engine in the nose. The cockpit was moved several feet aft and the fuselage was extensively reskinned for additional strength. Pratt & Whitney donated the airplane to a museum at Hartford, Connecticut, where it was displayed outdoors for a number of years. In 1979, however, it was nearly destroyed by a tornado that swept through the museum complex"

"Tight Lines!"

Wes

P.S.: The remaining parts are being used for a B-17 restoration in Urbana, Ohio at Grimes Field. Took several pics of it during the Doolittle Raiders Reunion last month.
        Purchased by Tech II, Inc./Shiffer Family. Being Restored at Grimes Airport in Urbana, OH
Wes Eakin

Offline John Witt

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2010, 01:42:32 PM »
One of the things that fascinates me about scale is doing the research, and in particular the back stories of individual aircraft and how they intersected the lives of people along the way. One can only imagine the number of hours of labor put into the modified aircraft and then again during their re-birth as they became valued historical artifacts. I'd sure give someone $2700 for a B-17 today!

Thanks for the great story about the 5-engined B-17s.

John W
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Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2010, 02:01:16 PM »
Well fellow scale modelers, there is the research for you to start your next CL Scale project.

Clancy
Clancy Arnold
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Offline Thomas Wilk

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Re: A single engine B-17 to model
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2010, 06:52:23 AM »
here is a photo.

TA Wilk


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