Author Topic: Sig Ryan STA (Read 1289 times)

Jerry Rauch · « **on:** December 05, 2010, 04:43:37 PM »

Has anyone ever built a Sig Ryan STA ( 72" wingspan) for CL? The plans show kind of a conversion for CL, but I was wondering if anyone actually did it or has seen it done on this particular kit.
Reason I'm asking is I have an original kit, problem is I don't know how to fly R/C, but can fly CL. I've never seen a 60 powered CL, the pull on the lines must be something. Largest I've ever flown was a Veco Thunderbird with Fox 35 power. Was kind of underpowered.

Will Hinton · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2010, 06:12:56 PM »

Jerry, look up Allen Goff's post on this section of the forum for his Ryan. Shouldn't be too far down the list.
Will

John Rist · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2010, 08:15:07 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Rauch on December 05, 2010, 04:43:37 PM

I've never seen a 60 powered CL, the pull on the lines must be something. Largest I've ever flown was a Veco Thunderbird with Fox 35 power. Was kind of underpowered.

My Extra 300S started out with a ST 90 2C I have now converted it to a Saito 120 4C. She does pull like a bear at full throttle but nothing most couldn't handle. Besides most scale aircraft have a throttle and do not fly around at full throttle all the time. For scale I would recommend 4C glow or electric. At the 2010 Nats control line scale the 4C engines seemed to run the best. Saito seemed to be the #1 choice for 4C power.

Allen Goff · « **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2010, 07:03:25 AM »

Jerry, go to page 5 on this scale site, there you will find some ideas on the Ryan. And I am now running the new Saito gas 4 stroke, and it is a great power plant. The pull at full throttle in level flight is a hand full, 9 1/2 lbs. at around 4 to 5 Gs's. At high flight it's not to bad, and you should not have to use full throttle to much, to long at a time. By-the-way, this kit builds like a dream, just follow the planes, Maxey did a great job on this kit. Good luck.

Blessings
Allen

Paul Smith · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2010, 07:35:36 AM »

Jerry, you are correct in your concern.

My highest-pulling model is a 4-pound profile scale job with a very powerful OS AX 40. In addition to the oft-quoted "rock-on-a-string" line pull, there is a lot of "downwind" force on the body and wing, which isn't so easy to calculate, but to me, feels like A LOT of tension.

I use lines a size bigger that The Rule Book requires. The handles, and particularly bellcranks, that you can buy aren't all that strong. The line sizes and pull tests in the CL Scale section are cupcake rules, snuck in by people who want to maximize performance at the cost of safety. Take a look at the Stunt rules (which are also weak) and see if your proposed model would pass them.

I'm not charging that Scale and Stunt rules are a hazard to the public. Only that building to the Rule Book minimum can cost you a model.

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2010, 12:36:15 PM »

The location of the cg and leadouts make for dramatic differences in line tension. Models that pull very hard are not trimmed properly. Models that are heavy do pull more than lighter ones, but the cg and leadouts being adjustable will help immensely. Bench trimming and then flight test is the best way to find the most comfortable and practical cg location and leadout position for a Scale model, or for that matter any c/l model airplane.

I have trimmed a pound off of an R/C kit converted to a Scale model for C/L. Careful selection of wood, and construction techniques as well as substitution of materials especially if lite-ply is used. The Sig Ryan is a nice kit. I think it can easily be a 7 pound model, however.

The pull tests will be a much easier dilemma the lighter the model. My recollection is that many Scale models were built to withstand the pull test, not the flight.

Chris...

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2010, 12:45:55 PM »

Quote from: Paul Smith on December 06, 2010, 07:35:36 AM

Jerry, you are correct in your concern

My highest-pulling model is a 4-pound profile scale job with a very powerful OS AX 40. In addition to the oft-quoted "rock-on-a-string" line pull, there is a lot of "downwind" force on the body and wing, which isn't so easy to calculate, but to me, feels like A LOT of tension.

I'll bet that the modern BB Schnerle R/C Pattern engine that you have in the profile model that you refer to is very hard to hold onto. May i ask where your C/G and leadout locations are? It sounds as if you have selected an engine far too large and heavy for a proper flying Scale model.

I use lines a size bigger that The Rule Book requires. The handles, and particularly bellcranks, that you can buy aren't all that strong. The line sizes and pull tests in the CL Scale section are cupcake rules, snuck in by people who want to maximize performance at the cost of safety. Take a look at the Stunt rules (which are also weak) and see if your proposed model would pass them.

Your use of language in reference to the rules makers and the reasons are, as usual, inflammatory and offensive. That is against the forum rules, Mr. Smith. Please use fact and technology, or have the risk of your posts or membership deleted. Moderators will be notified.

I'm not charging that Scale and Stunt rules are a hazard to the public. Only that building to the Rule Book minimum can cost you a model.

Scare tactics with so little, or no facts to back it up are part and parcel to your personality on this board. it is this type of behavior that keeps potential participants from joining our ranks as modelers in competition events. I implore you to refrain from making these baseless and blankett statements, while you are still allowed to post on these boards.

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2010, 08:57:19 AM »

Many years ago Jack Sheeks showed me how he adjusts the leadout guide on a scale model. I have built several models since and none needed additional adjustment for flight.

The first picture is a bottom view. Adjust the line guide fore and aft to get the model to hang slightly nose low.

The second picture is nose on. Adjust the line guide up or down to get the wings to hang vertical.
Clancy

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #8 on:** December 07, 2010, 11:45:15 PM »

Nice illustration of an easy bench trim, Clancy. Nice White Lightning model hanging in the garage there, too! You should show off some of your Scale models for us with some new 600x800 plus pics, man

Chris...

Bill Little · « **Reply #9 on:** December 08, 2010, 01:04:36 AM »

Quote from: Chris McMillin on December 06, 2010, 12:36:15 PM

The location of the cg and leadouts make for dramatic differences in line tension. Models that pull very hard are not trimmed properly. Models that are heavy do pull more than lighter ones, but the cg and leadouts being adjustable will help immensely. Bench trimming and then flight test is the best way to find the most comfortable and practical cg location and leadout position for a Scale model, or for that matter any c/l model airplane.

I have trimmed a pound off of an R/C kit converted to a Scale model for C/L. Careful selection of wood, and construction techniques as well as substitution of materials especially if lite-ply is used. The Sig Ryan is a nice kit. I think it can easily be a 7 pound model, however.

The pull tests will be a much easier dilemma the lighter the model. My recollection is that many Scale models were built to withstand the pull test, not the flight.

Chris...

Hi Chris, I agree with all you say in this post. And I know you are "in the know" when it comes to scale C/L.

Many still believe in setting the LOs too far back, offsetting the rudder too much, and putting a pound of lead in the wing tip, plus having a nose heavy model. All factors that we know will produce gobs of line tension! (most of which is totally unnecessary!)

Contrary to popular opinion, a really nose heavy plane not only pulls excessively, but it is harder to fly precisely. And I figure that you would want a Scale Model to fly fairly precisely. I'm sure with the inherent high wing loadings of most scale subjects when built for C/L scale diminishes the quality of flight unless some serious trimming is done. Of course, we don't want to go in the opposite direction and get it too tail heavy, either!

I kinda think of building a Scale model in the same terms as building a contest stunt ship. Wanting it to be kept as light as feasible, with out punching the LG through the wings on landing and such! LOL!! Maybe I am on the wrong track.

Big Bear

Allen Goff · « **Reply #10 on:** December 08, 2010, 07:37:07 AM »

Ask Dale Campbell from Huntersville, NC. (I think that is were he is from) about the building or the flying of the Sig Ryan. He gave me good information that I found to be true with this airplane. 7lbs, hum,? don't know about that. My Ryan has two batteries on board, one for the engine and one for the z-tronic controls, three servos. Wing tip weight, when you drag three lines, or coated two lines on a scale ship, you better have adequate weight in the outboard tip. And to help, set the ailerons (inboard slightly down and the outboard slightly up). Ask Steve Couch from Indianapolice, he lost a beautiful SE-5A at the Nats a couple of years ago due to this factor. Jack Sheeks told me many years ago start with more weight up front than you think you need then take out as you flight trim. One time up with a tail heavy airplane will make for more work than you want. In watching R/C scale and C/L scale at the FAI world championships in Muncie in 1994 (?) one common factor, under powered and tail heavy. Scale makes for a fun day of flying, IF the airplane is trimmed right. On the Ryan, make sure the wheel openings are large enough and the tires are strong enough, this airplane will want to tip over because of the wheels rubbing the pants, this happened to me two years in a row at the Nats. This airplane is one great looken bird in the air, I fell in love with the Ryan when Maxey Hester won first place at the worlds in the 1960's. Have fun, that's the main thing.

Blessings
Allen

Author Topic: Sig Ryan STA (Read 1289 times)

Jerry Rauch

Sig Ryan STA

Will Hinton

Re: Sig Ryan STA

John Rist

Re: Sig Ryan STA

Allen Goff

Re: Sig Ryan STA

Paul Smith

Re: Sig Ryan STA

Chris McMillin

Re: Sig Ryan STA

Chris McMillin

Re: Sig Ryan STA

Clancy Arnold

Re: Sig Ryan STA

Chris McMillin

Re: Sig Ryan STA

Bill Little

Re: Sig Ryan STA

Allen Goff

Re: Sig Ryan STA