Author Topic: SCALE SCHOOL IN SESSION...Name these 69 addicted scale junkies (Read 2190 times)

Shultzie · « **on:** January 26, 2009, 04:05:20 PM »

Take a look at the seriousness of all these scale addicted grunters....GOING TO SCHOOL ON ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL CL CONTROL ARTIST MODEL MAKERS that made me want to go out and bury that old Sting Ray in the Philly field next to the tarmac where this photo was taken.

Shultzie · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2009, 04:28:42 PM »

Here is the last shot...."CLEAR SKIES, CLEAN TARMAC AND HAPPY LANDINGS! SCALE CLASS NOW IN SESSION.

Trostle · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2009, 06:54:22 PM »

Don,

You might want to check the year. I am pretty sure that is the Chicago 1970 Nats. That first picture shows me sitting by Gerry McMillin. The guy in the blue cap is Bob Adair. Bob and I were on the Air Force team at the Nats that year. And 1970 is the only time that picture could have been taken.

The airplane is a Lancaster by Dr. Linton Keith. He is/was a dentist, a really nice guy to talk to and obviously, a world class builder. The airplane flew quite well. It was heavy, but had good power. I think he competed and won the Nats several times with that airplane. I also think he was on the US team to the World championships in that time frame, but I do not know how he did. (The model press does a lousy job of documenting our teams - a past and current problem.) If I remember, the turrets rotated and the bomb bay doors opened and closed. I do not remember if it had retracting gear.

The young lady standing by that guy in the blue jump suit (me) in the one photograph was Dr. Keith's companion. (The guys in that photo are just pretending to be paying attention to the model airplane.)

I would be interested if you have any shots taken that day of a Messerschmitt Bf 109G.

Keith

Shultzie · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2009, 09:05:07 PM »

The "MALE NURSE..actually Tim, my nats travelin partner...is the guy walking into the photo on the left side with camera in hand....(I don't remember him being at the 70 nats? He was in poor health and passed away around 70 or 71?
However if Tim did travel to the 70 nats... Perhaps these slides (although not marked with any date) taken of that model...just MAY have been given to me by him?...

and the girl in the next slide I thought was this young lady standing next to the guy in the light blue suit..(which I thought was you, Keith?) The young lady holding this senior's stunt model...looks so much like that SAME YOUNG LADY?
Hummm?
(The last nationals that Tim and I attended together was the Olatha 68?)

Shultzie · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2009, 09:19:46 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on January 26, 2009, 06:54:22 PM

Don,

The only German aircraft that I can remember taking this RC model...I gave away the other 3 shots to Mark Freeman who built a CLPA stunt model of that version for reference. He may still have those slide...but I only have these two left?
These slide mounts are not dated...If this was the model...THAT WAS AN EQUALLY AMAZING HUGE SCALE MODEL...
take a look at Jim VanLoos tummy..(same funny shorts and shirt at the 69 nat?

I doubt it but look who's talking...me..with long term memory loss for dates and places?

Also check the green suit flyer? Isn't that the owner of that same control line Mig?

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2009, 10:33:41 PM »

Keith:
Were you flying your original MB5 then - or was that a little later?

Trostle · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2009, 12:26:47 AM »

Quote from: Shultzie on January 26, 2009, 09:05:07 PM

(clip)

and the girl in the next slide I thought was this young lady standing next to the guy in the light blue suit..(which I thought was you, Keith?) The young lady holding this senior's stunt model...looks so much like that SAME YOUNG LADY?
Hummm?

(clip)

Don

The girl holding the stunt ship could well be the one in the other photo with the Lancaster, but there are different shoes, different shorts, different shirt and different hair.

The Lancaster pictures might have come from the 68 Olathe Nats, but I am almost positive that Bob Adair was not there. I also know that Adair and I were together at the 70 Nats where we both flew CL scale. I do know that I saw Linton Keith at several Nats, but those could have only been 68, 70 and 72. I do know that he was always accompanied by an "assistant" which made me think that I should have been a dentist.

Keith

Trostle · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2009, 12:31:16 AM »

Quote from: Shultzie on January 26, 2009, 09:19:46 PM

(clip

Also check the green suit flyer? Isn't that the owner of that same control line Mig?

Don.

Roland Baltes built the MiG in the photos in the other thread. I knew Roland fairly well and I am certain that the "green suit flyer?" is not Roland.

Keith

Trostle · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2009, 12:50:48 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on January 26, 2009, 10:33:41 PM

Keith:
Were you flying your original MB5 then - or was that a little later?

Dennis,

Thanks for asking about my MB 5. That MB 5 was not completed until just before the 79 Lincoln Nats. If I remember, that is one of the times you helped me fly that thing. It did not do well in the wind that year and placed 3rd that day. It took 2nd at the 96 Nats and then 1st in 2000. (Maybe it was in 96 that you helped me with it??) It is now in the AMA museum in Muncie.

Keith

Mike Gretz · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:36:18 AM »

Quote from: Shultzie on January 26, 2009, 09:19:46 PM

The only German aircraft that I can remember taking this model...I gave away the other 3 shots to Mark Freeman who built a CLPA stunt model of that version for reference. He may still have those slide...but I only have these two left?
These slide mounts are not dated...If this was the model...THAT WAS AN EQUALLY AMAZING HUGE SCALE MODEL...

Don,

In your post with the Focke-Wulfe, I believe the guy sitting on the ground wearing the orange turtle-neck is none other than my good friend Dave Platt. The '68 NATS in Olathe was his first, and he blew everyone away in the static (scale) portion of R/C Scale with his Douglas Dauntless. The U.S. had never seen a "weathered" model in competition before. Not 100% sure, but my foggy memory is telling me that Dave's '68 Dauntless received the only perfect static score ever awarded in NATS history, and naturally that was quite controversial with the other contestants. Nonetheless, Dave didn't win R/C Scale that year .. Granger Williams did with a Nieuport 28. Dave ended up in 2nd. "Ya gotta fly 'em good too!"

I think this picture of Dave must have been taken at the '69 NATS. That Focke-Wulfe was his entry in R/C Scale at Willow Grove. He placed 5th with it - see Nov. 1968 MAN page 29.

FYI, Dave could always be found around the C/L Scale circles if not busy in R/C Scale. He is a true modeler .. well experienced in F/F, C/L, and R/C.

Mike

Mike Gretz · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2009, 07:06:07 AM »

Quote from: Trostle on January 26, 2009, 06:54:22 PM

The airplane is a Lancaster by Dr. Linton Keith. He is/was a dentist, a really nice guy to talk to and obviously, a world class builder. The airplane flew quite well. It was heavy, but had good power. I think he competed and won the Nats several times with that airplane. I also think he was on the US team to the World championships in that time frame, but I do not know how he did. (The model press does a lousy job of documenting our teams - a past and current problem.) If I remember, the turrets rotated and the bomb bay doors opened and closed. I do not remember if it had retracting gear.

Keith,

Dr. Linton Keith's Lancaster was unbeatable at several NATS in the late 60's. My records show that he took 1st in Open C/L Scale at the '68, '69, and '79 NATS. I don't know who won in '66 and '67 .. like you said the old magazines are sometimes lacking in results .. but he may have been in there too. Doc Keith was on the first-ever U.S. C/L Scale WC Team in 1970, flying the Lancaster. The WC was in Cranfield, England. He placed 4th. Didn't he leave the Lancaster in England??? I think so.

I have fairly complete records of the C/L and R/C Scale events in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s. Here's what I have for the '68-'70 time period...

1968 NATS Olathe, Kansas
C/L Scale
Jr. ?
Sr. Dale Hungerford, Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Op. Linton Keith, Avro Lancaster
R/C Scale
Op. Granger Williams, Nieuport 28 (Dave Platt 2nd; perfect static score!)

1969 NATS Willow Grove, Pennsylvania
C/L Scale 52 entries
Jr. Elliot Dickson, Fairchild PT-19
Sr. James Romano, Martin B-26 Marauder
Op. Linton Keith, Avro Lancaster (also Sterling Award winner for top static score at the NATS)
R/C Scale 45 entries
Op. Maxey Hester, Zlin 526 Akrobat

1970 NATS Glenview, Illinois
C/L Scale 50 entries
Jr. Cathy Burnstine, Nesmith Cougar
Sr. John Glab, P-51 Mustang
Op. Linton Keith, Avro Lancaster
R/C Scale 43 entries
Op. Ed Ellis, Spirit of St. Louis (Sterling Award)

1970 SCALE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS (first official "Scale World Championships")
Cranfield, England Aug. 23-28, 1970
U.S. C/L Scale Team 1st place team award
Bill Harney, Focke-Wulfe FW-190 3rd place
Dr. Linton Keith, Avro Lancaster 4th place
Andy Sheber, Cessna 320 Skynight 9th place
U.S. R/C Scale Team 2nd place team award
Maxey Hester, Ryan StA Special 2nd place
Hale Wallace, DH Chipmunk 4th place
Walt Moucha, Bowers Fly Baby 5th place

Keith, what airplane did you fly in scale at the 1970 NATS?

Mike

Mike Gretz · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2009, 07:41:51 AM »

POPULAR SCIENCE JULY 1970

Trostle · « **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2009, 09:30:58 AM »

Quote from: Mike Gretz on January 27, 2009, 07:06:07 AM

Keith,

(clip)

Keith, what airplane did you fly in scale at the 1970 NATS?

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for setting the record straight on the exploits of Linton Keith. That airplane was definitely in a class by itself. And he was (is?) really a nice guy to talk to.

I wondered about that one photo that it might be Dave Platt. He is another one of those gentlemen you find in this activity model aviation. Few can match his skill in the construction/finish of his masterpieces. He always seems genuinely interested in the airplanes I have.

Also, thanks about asking about what I flew in scale at the 70 Nats. It was (and I emphasize "was") a Bf 109G in 1/10 scale. It was just a basic airplane that sort of looked OK. It flew pretty well with its OS .49. It had looped successfully several times over the years that I had flown it (like 8th at the 66 Nats). Anyway, that day, I called for a loop. I had done several wingovers in that flight to see how tight I could make the loop. At the top of my loop attempt, the engine went to low throttle and I just ran out of air, it pancaked at the bottom of the loop. It was ironic because the judges had already scored one of my wingovers as a loop. If I would have finished the flight with a decent landing, it would have placed in the top 5 or so. It was also sort of bittersweet because I lost the airplane in a loop after just winning Open stunt earlier that day.

Keith

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2009, 10:04:36 AM »

Quote from: Trostle on January 27, 2009, 12:50:48 AM

Dennis,

Thanks for asking about my MB 5. That MB 5 was not completed until just before the 79 Lincoln Nats. If I remember, that is one of the times you helped me fly that thing. It did not do well in the wind that year and placed 3rd that day. It took 2nd at the 96 Nats and then 1st in 2000. (Maybe it was in 96 that you helped me with it??) It is now in the AMA museum in Muncie.

Keith

Hi Keith, yeah I remember helping you with the MB5, but I thought it might have been i '71 or 72! Sheesz won't be long and I'll need my fingers & toes to help me count.

Now another memory - or lapse! I seem to remember the top being in a darker shade of gray and the bottom of the bird being a medium gray-blue color. Was it painted that way originally?

Shultzie · « **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2009, 10:47:06 AM »

YES! THIS PHOTO IS THE REAL...DAVE PLATT!

He too was also the "Pied Piper" of control line scale....ALWAYS COLLECTED A CROWD AT THE FAMOUS BUILDING TABLES AT THE NATIONALS...

Trostle · « **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2009, 10:48:27 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on January 27, 2009, 10:04:36 AM

Hi Keith, yeah I remember helping you with the MB5, but I thought it might have been i '71 or 72! Sheesz won't be long and I'll need my fingers & toes to help me count.

Now another memory - or lapse! I seem to remember the top being in a darker shade of gray and the bottom of the bird being a medium gray-blue color. Was it painted that way originally?

Dennis,

When I first finished the MB 5, the single most authoritative 3-views I had was from Aeromodeller. I think most will agree that Aeromodeller 3-views are generally accepted as the standard for documentation. Those 3-views showed that the bottom was medium gray while the top was dark gray and dark green. So, when you first saw that MB 5 it was painted that way, though there was some question at the time that the bottom might have been painted the trainer yellow that British prototype aircraft used. In fact, there is a B&W photograph that is of the type that shows yellow as black. That photo of the MB 5 shows the ""circle P" for prototype, which is always trainer yellow, as black and it appears the bottom is black as well (or it could just be a dark shadow). At the time, I felt that perhaps the bottom might have been originally yellow, then painted gray. Then I got a factory drawing that showed the color scheme and it specified yellow undersides. Also, several articles and publications showed the MB 5 in color profile with yellow undersides. Then, another long story, I had the opportunity to send a note to Martin Baker through a company representative asking several questions about the Martin Baker aircraft, including the bottom coloring of the MB 5. The question was if the bottom coloring was always trainer yellow. Through that company representative, I received a note signed by Sir James Martin with answers to my questions. His answer regarding the bottom coloring was a cryptic "Yes". His note also clarified several other inconsistent points of information that has appeared in the aviation press over the years about the Martin Baker aircraft. Of course that note is in my files. It was signed less than 6 months before his death.

So, I needed to repaint the model anyway following repairs needed from that 79 Nationals flight. My scale documentation presentation was changed accordingly. Now you know more than you ever wanted.

Kieth

Mike Gretz · « **Reply #16 on:** January 27, 2009, 11:46:00 AM »

Quote from: Shultzie on January 27, 2009, 10:47:06 AM

YES! THIS PHOTO IS THE REAL...DAVE PLATT!
He too was also the "Pied Piper" of control line scale....ALWAYS COLLECTED A CROWD AT THE FAMOUS BUILDING TABLES AT THE NATIONALS...

Don, on page 1 of the Popular Science article, note the picture of Dave P. talking to Doc Keith. The shirt Dave is wearing and the location of the name tags appears exactly as in your color photo. Probably taken the same day in 1969(?). I'm guessing '69 because the article was printed just before the 1970 NATS.

On page 2 of the Popular Science article, how many of the airplanes in the stunt lineup can you guys identify?

Mike

Shultzie · « **Reply #17 on:** January 27, 2009, 01:06:47 PM »

Quote from: Mike Gretz on January 27, 2009, 11:46:00 AM

Don, on page 1 of the Popular Science article, note the picture of Dave P. talking to Doc Keith. The shirt Dave is wearing and the location of the name tags appears exactly as in your color photo. Probably taken the same day in 1969(?). I'm guessing '69 because the article was printed just before the 1970 NATS.

On page 2 of the Popular Science article, how many of the airplanes in the stunt lineup can you guys identify?

Mike

Yes...Photo,Clothing and tags..really NAIL DOWN our brain damaged memory cells...However even the Cover Issue of MAN Nov. 69 IN ERROR...on the inside cover shot info...CALL THIS BEAUTIFUL CL MODEL AN R/C MODEL?
Since I don't remember the Cenna modeler(s) names, as they were TWO CESSNA CL ENTRIES THAT YEAR.
Without a doubt the model on the cover took up...a good % of my slide film that was almost at the end of a 36 exposure roll.

Take a look at the magazine cover...see those tell all LEADOUTS HANGIN DOWN.

Shultzie · « **Reply #18 on:** January 27, 2009, 01:50:36 PM »

Quote from: Mike Gretz on January 27, 2009, 11:46:00 AM

Don, on page 1 of the Popular Science article, note the picture of Dave P. talking to Doc Keith. The shirt Dave is wearing and the location of the name tags appears exactly as in your color photo. Probably taken the same day in 1969(?). I'm guessing '69 because the article was printed just before the 1970 NATS.

On page 2 of the Popular Science article, how many of the airplanes in the stunt lineup can you guys identify?
Mike

THE LATE ICON DON BAMBRICK IN WHITE..standing in the foreground in his "NURSEMAID" shirt.
His models are such pieces of art.
That color is soooooo coooool and perhaps was driving young Chris Mc' bongers. Surely..that color reminded not only Chris...but many of the other folks...that it gave "VISIONS OF MINT ICE CREAM CONES" not suga'-plums...that danced in all our heads while standing on that large expanse of tarmac.

Anyone got Don Bambrick stories...(that a sure way to KIDNAPP A FORUM TITLE.

Trostle · « **Reply #19 on:** January 27, 2009, 02:00:02 PM »

Let me offer a plausible assignment of years to some of these photos.

It sounds like a good idea that the photo of Dave Platt is from 69 as explained by Mike in the preceding post.

Now for the several photos of the Lancaster built by Linton Kieth:

The very first one that shows me sitting by Jerry McMillin and shows Bob Adair in the light blue cap could only have been in 70 when Adair and I were together on the Air Force team. I was not at the 69 Nats and Adair was not at the Olathe 68 Nats.

The second photo shows Dr. Keith with his Lancaster - date - unknown.

The next photo, the one with the group around the Lancaster including Dr. Kieth's assistant could very well have been taken at the 68 Olathe Nats. (It seemed that he was always accompanied by an assistant.) It is not the same paved surface or background as the first Lancaster photo

Thanks to Mike Gretz for the information that shows the Linton Keith Lancaster was at the 68, 69 and 70 Nats.

Keith

Shultzie · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2009, 02:23:14 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on January 27, 2009, 02:00:02 PM

Let me offer a plausible assignment of years to some of these photos.

It sounds like a good idea that the photo of Dave Platt is from 69 as explained by Mike in the preceding post.

Now for the several photos of the Lancaster built by Linton Kieth:

The very first one that shows me sitting by Jerry McMillin and shows Bob Adair in the light blue cap could only have been in 70 when Adair and I were together on the Air Force team. I was not at the 69 Nats and Adair was not at the Olathe 68 Nats.

The second photo shows Dr. Keith with his Lancaster - date - unknown.

The next photo, the one with the group around the Lancaster including Dr. Kieth's assistant could very well have been taken at the 68 Olathe Nats. (It seemed that he was always accompanied by an assistant.) It is not the same paved surface or background as the first Lancaster photo
Thanks to Mike Gretz for the information that shows the Linton Keith Lancaster was at the 68, 69 and 70 Nats.

Keith

Then why is the building, the tarmac and the lighting and the clothing all the same if these two slides (possibly shot at about the same moment in time.....) strange how THE HUMAN MIND'S EYEBALLS seem to work?

Trostle · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2009, 02:47:31 PM »

Quote from: Shultzie on January 27, 2009, 02:23:14 PM

Then why is the building, the tarmac and the lighting and the clothing all the same if these two slides (possibly shot at about the same moment in time.....) strange how THE HUMAN MIND'S EYEBALLS seem to work?

Oops, I guess I was not very clear in what I was comparing. At the beginning of this thread, there is your first post that shows two photos, the first with a group around the Lancaster, the second photo is of Linton Keith and his Lancaster. Your second post shows another photo with a different group around that airplane. The pavement, the background and the battery hookups are different between those two "group" photographs. I am certain that the first could only have been taken in 1970. I was there in 70. I was not at the 69 Nats but I was at the 68 Nats but not with Bob Adair. That is why I suggested that the first group photo was in 70 and that the second group photo was in 68. It is possible that the second was taken in 70, but it could not have been in 69.

Keith

Mike Gretz · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2009, 03:16:04 PM »

I wonder if that Cessna on the cover is Andy Sheber's C/L entry?

Isn't that the same one as in the pic you just posted Don?

Keith - isn't that you and Chris McMillin holding the airplane for starting? Do you remember who the airplane belonged to?

Trostle · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2009, 03:57:46 PM »

Quote from: Mike Gretz on January 27, 2009, 03:16:04 PM

(clip)

Keith - isn't that you and Chris McMillin holding the airplane for starting? Do you remember who the airplane belonged to?

I was not at the 69 Nats and I do not recall holding any twin Cessna. I think I would remember that one. I will have to look through my pictures from the 68 Nats to see if something was there like this. I know that Jerry McMillin and Chris were there in 68. Chris remembers the chocolate milk dispensers in the Navy barracks.

Keith

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #24 on:** January 27, 2009, 07:47:38 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on January 27, 2009, 03:57:46 PM

I was not at the 69 Nats and I do not recall holding any twin Cessna. I think I would remember that one. I will have to look through my pictures from the 68 Nats to see if something was there like this. I know that Jerry McMillin and Chris were there in 68. Chris remembers the chocolate milk dispensers in the Navy barracks.

Keith

YESSSS! the BEST chocolate milk in the universe.

Mike Gretz · « **Reply #25 on:** January 27, 2009, 09:30:21 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on January 27, 2009, 03:57:46 PM

Chris remembers the chocolate milk dispensers in the Navy barracks.

OH YEAH!!! The Navy chow hall. Just what a couple high school kids needed to make the NATS possible. The Navy NATS were the greatest in so many ways. Glad I got to experience the last three.

Here is my home at the 1970 NATS in Glenview. And that's my red '60 Chevy. And in the back is the legendary NATS HANGER .. a behive of activity 24 hours a day. Camping wasn't so bad .. with the Navy Barracks for showers and the Navy Mess for chow .. and all cheap enough that two high school kids from Minnesota could afford it all on their own.

It was a life changer for me.

Mike

Mike Gretz · « **Reply #26 on:** January 27, 2009, 09:32:02 PM »

forgot the picture .. how ironic when reminiscing about my (long lost) youth.

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #27 on:** January 28, 2009, 01:47:08 PM »

Quote from: Mike Gretz on January 27, 2009, 03:16:04 PM

I wonder if that Cessna on the cover is Andy Sheber's C/L entry?

Isn't that the same one as in the pic you just posted Don?

Keith - isn't that you and Chris McMillin holding the airplane for starting? Do you remember who the airplane belonged to?

Hi Mike,
Dad and I were at the '69 Nats but that isn't me. The man in glasses is certainly as internationally handsome as Keith, but it's not him either.
Chris...

wwwarbird · « **Reply #28 on:** January 28, 2009, 06:15:51 PM »

Chris, I about messed my pants on the rear turret photo of the Lanc!!!

WOW-WHAT AN INCREDIBLE MODEL-COOL-COOL-COOL!!!

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #29 on:** January 29, 2009, 09:23:02 PM »

Dentists seem to have a knack for miniaturization. There are several in the plastic model groups I follow and their stuff is as well done, and smaller than Dr. Keith's. I'm always fascinated by the Scale entries, and am a hacker at Scale by comparison!
Chris...

wwwarbird · « **Reply #30 on:** January 31, 2009, 05:21:12 PM »

Yeah Chris, I used to do a LOT of superdetailed, weathered and all plastic models long ago. Mostly 1/48th scale WWII stuff so I'm familiar with the patience and effort required. I once worked on just the cockpit of a P-51B for a month. Ahh, Winter in Minnesota...

That Lanc looks like it was really something to see. I am always super impressed by an accurately and well detailed scale or semi-scale flying model though, just cool stuff!