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Author Topic: Scale flying at the Nats  (Read 2129 times)

Offline Paul Smith

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Scale flying at the Nats
« on: July 14, 2014, 06:27:59 AM »
Static judging was complete by about 1:30 PM on Friday.  The RC side of the event brought in food for their judges and dispensed with the lunch break.  In fact they provided enough for the the RC judges, CL judges, and some substantial scraps for the contestants.  Thank you very much.

On the CL side we had six hours of dead time between the end of static and the meeting at an offsite motel.  After running all four of my planes through one test flight each, I went back to Center Stage and joined the RC'ers for an on-field eat-while-you-fly-and-judge dinner.  I kicked in a contribution for my pizza and lunch.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 08:02:21 AM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 06:37:05 AM »
CL ended up with a scant three hours of flying from 8:30 to 11:30 AM on Saturday.  RC Scale got in SIX hours of good flying while we were waiting for a useless meeting.  Watch & learn.  When you're in Muncie you need to learn to make hay while the sun shines.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 08:03:11 AM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2014, 09:12:34 AM »
If the meeting was so useless (your word) why did you have so many questions about things you didn't undestand?
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 10:18:51 AM »
The way things were said was ambigous, at least to me.  I just wanted to make sure everyting was clear.

The statement about doing everything possible to get the flying done certainly didn't come true.  One round is not four rounds. 
Paul Smith

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 04:35:58 PM »
So you would have rather flown no matter what the AMA said?  They would not have allowed it to begin with, and secondly, you're the only one I have known of other than 1/2A who wanted to fly on Sunday.  Hmmmmm.
Grow up, Paul.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 09:30:32 PM »
Well I know one guy that sure wanted to fly on Sunday and probably would have placed instead of being an also ran. The weather wasn't all that bad and I have a hard time believing no one wanted to fly? Eric
Eric

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 03:08:55 PM »
Those who were sitting on winning (top 3) scores were happy to fold after one flight. There was nothing to discuss since the event directors left the site at 11:30 AM Saturday to avoid discussion.  Contest Director Brenda Schutte came out at 2:30 PM in the "RC-flyable" weather and confirmed that she NEVER ordered flying to stop.  Her position was "no event director - no fly". But the event directors, like Elvis, had left the house.

The event was put on a 3-hour forecast weather hold by Alan Goff at 11:30 AM. The forecast proved to be false and harsh westher never happened.  I came back at 2:00 PM and I was NOT alone. At least half of the contestants returned and were set up to fly by 2:30.

Among the contestants who didn't return were the event directors who were also contestants themselves - and in position win if flying ended.

Having an Event Director walk away from the Nats is unheard of and obviously unacceptable. By the way, he still hasn't turned in the results to AMA. The so-called "National Champions" are like a team that was leading a football game in the first quarter and somehow got it ended.

Thany you, Eric.

Will Hinton - read the Contest Director section of the AMA Rules.  The weather delay rules were violated. Those who built models, travelled to Muncie, and paid entry fees were entitiled to have contest management make every effort to complete the contest during the time alloted.  They did not even try.
Paul Smith

Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2014, 01:51:57 PM »


The event was put on a 3-hour forecast weather hold by Alan Goff at 11:30 AM. The forecast proved to be false and harsh westher never happened.  I came back at 2:00 PM and I was NOT alone. At least half of the contestants returned and were set up to fly by 2:30.

Among the contestants who didn't return were the event directors who were also contestants themselves - and in position win if flying ended.

Having an Event Director walk away from the Nats is unheard of and obviously unacceptable. By the way, he still hasn't turned in the results to AMA. The so-called "National Champions" are like a team that was leading a football game in the first quarter and somehow got it ended.

Thany you, Eric.

Will Hinton - read the Contest Director section of the AMA Rules.  The weather delay rules were violated. Those who built models, travelled to Muncie, and paid entry fees were entitiled to have contest management make every effort to complete the contest during the time alloted.  They did not even try.
[/quote]

Paul,
   As a judge for the event,liscensed pilot,and someone that resides in a TENT on AMA grounds(I love tent camping......shoot me) during the nats I have a unique and VERY different perspective to your little rant.

      First let's be clear about the weather.....It stormed quite heavily Sat. afternoon as I sat in my tent with winds no full scale pilot would ever think of flying in.I saw a few vehicles at the scale site that afternoon.A very few.......It is the contestants responsability to be ready if the weather permits.If the weather permits is an important statement here.Crosswind,downwind,upwind ALL apply to C/L model aircraft.The R/C guys have the availability/option to land into the wind with as little crosswind as possible....just like full size aircraft.I have many hrs. of aerobatic time and a taildragger endorsement.Try landing a Cessna 185 with a 20 MPH gusting crosswind sometime.....or better yet a J3.Be prepared to clean out your britches!!!!SAFETY should always be the top concern of the pilots and models.These are SCALE models and SCALE windspeeds/directions SHOULD be considered in the CD's decision to fly/not fly.With that being said........Sunday was windier.

      Now for the rest.........PLEASE STEP UP and volunteer to be CD next year.You have all this time to RANT you should be able to put the event together with NO problems at all.let it be your only priority.Get volunteers for judges,tabulators,score runners.Get sponsors,buy plaques,ect.........Bring your rule book and crack the whip.Be sure to have the new C/L scale "POOR SPORT" award made.Unfortunately if you are CD no one will be available to accept it!!Did ya bother to thank anyone for their volunteering?Mr.Brodak?Mr.Sheeks?Ya certainly did'nt thank the judges.Everyone I scored(including you)got what they deserved.If theyThe attackeees) were in position to win they flew better/scored higher than you,nothing more/nothing less.1,3,or even 20 flights may or may not have changed your placing.Maybe you should grow Orchids for competition...........but wait............the weather matters there too.
                                                           Jeff Traxler
                                                           2014 AMA C/L scale flight judge.
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2014, 02:44:42 PM »
Well I know one guy that sure wanted to fly on Sunday and probably would have placed instead of being an also ran. The weather wasn't all that bad and I have a hard time believing no one wanted to fly? Eric

Eric, were you even there?  I don't remember seeing your name at all, but I could have missed it.  As to Paul's empty accusation that the top guys didn't want to fly because they were already on top - he's so wrong.  I've judged all of those guys and not a one is willing to give up a flight just for a meaningless trophy.  They aren't of the same mindset he seems to embrace.
I have never known anyone who cries as much or as loud as Paul does and has over the years, then he goes on the try and justify himself with the rule book, usually with misquotes.
THE AMA SHUT THINGS DOWN, NOT OUR E.D.'s.
Then later, if we would have tried to fly, it would have been near dusk when we finished and that is what the others did not want to do.  Then on Sunday, the others, (not just the ones on top already) did not want to assemble their planes and try to get another round in.  Only one guy, (whose plane needs no assembly,) would have done it.
Remember this, Allen had NO qualifying flight on Saturday, so he would have benefited by getting another round in!  Didn't think of that, did you Paul and Eric?

I repeat what I said before Paul - grow up.

John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2014, 05:54:01 PM »
Based on the testimony of Brenda Schutte, AMA DID NOT shut anything down.  They simply relayed a weather forecast and Allen Goff permantly shut down the whole CL scale catagory and went home without even daring to face the contestants.  And that after only three hours of a two-day contest.  Read the Rule Book under contest director!

Thirteen contestant got a prize based one of four rounds that should have been flown.
Five contestants did not get a prize.
Majority rules, eh?
Paul Smith

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2014, 07:04:04 AM »
See my last post in the open sectiuon.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2014, 09:43:19 AM »
Where is the Event Directors response to this?   Of does he even know about it?   Next is why hasn't Paul contacted the Event Director personally by PM or E-Mail instead of stirring things up on this forum? VD~
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2014, 10:53:21 AM »

Thirteen contestant got a prize based one of four rounds that should have been flown.
Five contestants did not get a prize.
Majority rules, eh?

Let me guess.......you are one of the 5.Join a youth soccer league........EVERYBODY gets a trophy even tho they don't score high enough.Heck,go buy a box of Cracker Jacks.Hint.......if ya open the bottom of the box you get the prize faster!
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline John Rist

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2014, 12:22:43 PM »
It's supposed to be fun!!!  If at first you didn't have fun - try, try, try again.  Next chance to have fun is the FCM at the AMA August 23, 2014.  And guess what you can fly both scale and stunt.

 #^   #^   #^   #^   y1    y1    y1    y1
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2014, 09:24:11 PM »
By the way, who was the alternate CD who presided while Goff was competing in his two events?

Did anybody ever read the Rule Book?  Competition by Contest Directors is risky business, and even more risky at The Nats level? 
And it's death in the judgment events, scale and stunt.

So refresh my memoray, who CD'd while Alan competed?
Paul Smith

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2014, 10:15:18 PM »
 Allen was an ED not CD  did u fly Perky at Brodaks while u were running it  . the racing and Speed ED's have been flying for years

if i am not mistaken Will Davis ,the CD at Brodaks flew
rad racer

Offline John Rist

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2014, 10:25:22 PM »
Anybody that is willing to be an ED or CD has my praise.  If we keep burning them at the stake we will need to up what we are paying them!!!

 R%%%%
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Scale flying at the Nats
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2014, 12:35:20 PM »
You see, Paul, you either do not pay attention or are incapable of comprehension - JOHN BRODAK and Allen were the CO ED's the past four nats.  They have done that with the AMA'S blessings so they can both compete.
Now, please go back and re-read this twenty times and try, try, try to understand it for once.  This has been written several times and you still don't get it.  I would ask "what is your problem?" but I'm pretty sure I know.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com


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