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Author Topic: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use  (Read 1302 times)

Offline Dennis Saydak

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RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« on: November 11, 2013, 03:04:57 PM »
Recently I was given this unusual engine by an elderly friend. This is an incentive to build my first scale model. I've decided to build a Mr. Mulligan that was designed by Sam Abdow and published in MA back in the 80s. The RCV 60 is a good fit for this design. Has anyone used this engine for C/L? It is a bit heavy but considering Sam had to add a pound of lead in the nose of his model engine weight is a mute point. The engine requires a 16" high pitch prop and the Mulligan certainly has the ground clearance necessary for a large diameter prop.
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2013, 03:24:47 PM »
I would run the engine on a test stand first before building the model. A friend had a twin with a smaller version of this engine. He found the size motor he was running was not as powerful as he expected.

If you knew the maximum weight this engine could fly that would be a good piece of data.

What is the wingspan of the mr mulligan that you want to build? How much do you think it would weigh?

When I was flying with a OS 60 fsr or the fp engine I keep the models around 8 lbs

My 12 lb model was underpowered with an 60fp, but flew great with the os91fx. That 91fx is a nice engine, flew the model at 1/3 throttle

Fred
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2013, 03:39:03 PM »
Dennis,

I did a bit of research on that Brand before I purchased the RCV 120.

That is a great engine. Good for you!

Keep in mind I do the Mulligan graphics.

Great airplane to model!

Charles
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Offline Trostle

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2013, 03:52:22 PM »
The RCV engines are heavy for their displacement compared to regular 2-stroke and even 4-stroke engines.  The extra weight may not be much a a penalty for scale applications where extra nose weight is sometimes needed  for proper balance.  The Mr. Mulligan would be a good fit because of its short nose, but consideration needs to be given based on the expected power from your RCV .60 and the size and overall weight of the model.

These engines swing larger diameter props (and higher pitches) than their more contemporary cousins.  Their prop rotation is half the operating rpm of the piston crankshaft.

Besides being heavier than their equivalent displacement cousins, I have read that the RCV 1.20 is about the same power as a "normal" .90 and that the RCV .90 is about the power of a "normal" .60.  So I would not expect the RCV .60 to be much more power than a "normal .45 or .50 engine.

If your Mr. Mulligan is a good size for say a .46 or .50 engine, that RCV .60 may be a good fit.

One advantage these engines have is that they have a comparatively small frontal cross section which makes them easy to fit in a completely cowled in installation.  But cooling can present a problem unless there is a nice opening in the front of the model like on a scale aircraft with a radial engine and there is a good way for the cooling air to exit the cowl.

A number of articles/reviews have appeared over the years on these engines that give a range of recommended prop sizes.  I can make copies of some of these if you are interested.

I strongly recommend that you follow Fred's suggestion to run the model on a test stand before you make the commitment to build a scale airplane around it.  A report on your findings will be interesting.

Keith
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Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2013, 05:15:41 PM »
The gallery on the RCV web site shows a number of models in the 58" - 63" span and  8 - 9.5#s range powered by the RCV .60. These are all R/C models however. The flying characteristics are said to be quite good. Here's one example: http://rcvengines.com/gallery/rcv60sp_corsair.htm

The Mulligan is 59" span and the prototype weighed in at 9.5#s with a pound of lead in the nose for balance as I recall. I normally build light using good wood & decent building techniques so I'd hope to produce a lighter model.

It would be no problem for me to set the model up for both the RCV .60 as well as a regular 4-stroke mounted engine. I was originally planning to install an OS .56 Surpass and I also have an RCV .58 engineavailable. However, I really do want to install the .60SP because of it's installation ease and uniqueness. I wouldn't have to contend with cooling problems.

Unfortunately, winter recently arrived here so I won't be running any engines outside for many months. I used to fly during the winter but not anymore. I don't enjoy freezing my hands  (LOL).

I'd love to have a RCV .90 but purchasing another engine is absolutely out of the question. I need to put the ones I have to use.

Thanks Fred for the good advice.
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Offline John Rist

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2013, 05:17:05 PM »
I had a RCV 120 in an 80" Eindecker.  See my thumbnail.  It started easy and idled good however it was not a strong engine.  I am not sure why.  The prop runs at 1/2 RPMs requiring a high pitch prop.  I have a Sato 120 in an Extra 300S.  Now that's a strong engine!!  Also RCVs take a lot of breaking in before they are up to full potential.  I have heard as much as a gallon or two.  Anyway the advice of bench running it to see what you have is spot on.  Also if I remember correctly it likes high nitro fuel.  Think I used 15%.  By the way the other problem I had with mine is that it kept striping the muffler threads and dumping the muffler.  RCV muffler was soft aluminum.  Found an OS max 4C muffler the same size - problem solved.  It is a cool engine for scale because it will swing a scale size prop and it fits inside the cowling. Also it is easy to mount.  One other point about the RCV.  You MUST use an electric starter motor to start the bugger. It comes with a starting adaptor.  I had to create a longer one to reach through the cowl.  It is a standard hex key size.  Also check - seems like the starter motor runs backwards?  Mine required a hefty starter motor.
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Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2013, 08:38:15 PM »
Quote from: Ty Marcucci on November 11, 2013, 07:09:08 PM
A tad off subject, but you mentioned a name I have not heard in years, Sam Abdow.  I first met him at a contest in New Bedford. Really nice guy and each contest you could see the quality of his scale planes jump up in detail and craftsmanship. I often wonder what ever happened to him...  D>K

I saw a nice picture of Sam's Mr. Mulligan at the Mike Olson Memorial contest in Fargo this past summer. It was in one of Mike's picture albums, which were graciously made available for people to peruse. I believe that picture was taken at one of the Nationals. Nice model!
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Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 10:48:11 AM »
Well, it's not much to show at this point but it's a start. I have the main plywood fuselage parts ready to be cut out. I have tons of 1/16" plywood so I just laminate the 1/16" ply to get the thickness required. That takes a little extra time but it saves me $s. I use rubber cement to glue the paper patterns to the ply. The paper peels off easily afterwards and the rubber cement just rubs off from the wood. A few swipes with fine sandpaper and the wood is clean again. I can't use an aerosol spray contact cement to place the patterns as it may kill my pet parrot. They have sensitive respiratory systems regarding airborne chemicals.

Once there is more progress I may start a separate build thread.
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 02:17:03 PM »
Dennis, get hold of John Brodak about the RCV.  He ran one on a scale ship as recent as 5 years ago and seemed to like it.  I'm sure he'll be glad to share his experiences with you.
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Offline Paul Wood

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2013, 09:35:35 AM »
Dennis,

I have a RCV 1.20 on a 1/5 scale R/C WACO biplane.  For sake of space here, I'll give you the basics I've found with the engine.  If you want detailed info, PM me and I'd be happy to help.

1.  Excellent for short nosed aircraft such as the Mr. Mulligan. (nose weight).
2.  Pours oil out the crankcase port.  I use a small collection tank.
3.  Must have cooling tunnel around engine or it will overheat.
4.  Large/high pitch prop will tend to pull aircraft to the left at low airspeeds.
5.  Requires on board glow for starting. Cannot get to glow plug due to prop location.
6.  I never got the recommended starter shaft to work.  I start mine using a 12v. starter with my finger over the exhaust to prime. (Safety issue due to large prop).  Cannot get prime to engine thru carb.  No choke.
7.  Once started, runs well.  Never had a flame out.  Idles well with on board glow.

Good luck,
Paul
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 09:53:50 AM by Paul Wood »
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Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 05:02:49 PM »
Thanks for the information and tips guys. I will talk to John Brodak regarding his experience but I've decided to stick my neck out and provide mounting for the RCV .60. After doing considerable research I find a lot of people are happy with their RCV.60 and a few had problems, which were generally fixed to their satisfaction by the manufacturer. The plan calls for a .45 - .60 engine so the RCV .60 should be adequate power. The wingspan is 56.5 inches so a .40 could theoretically fly it (depending on weight). I don't need to install so much power that I need to fly at only 1/3rd power. I'd be quite happy running it flat out for some of the flight time if necessary. Some information I've gleaned says that with the larger RCV engines a larger electric starter is required to light the fire. I believe a regular starter should be adequate for the .60 but I will eventually find out and solve if a problem in that regard occurs.

More to follow as I make more progress. It's a shame to not use such a unique engine but I'll also set the model up for a power plant change if necessary, just in case.
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Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: RCV 60 For Scale C/L Use
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2013, 06:34:42 AM »
Better be safe than sorry, ain't it??

Marcus
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