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Author Topic: Plans Sources and Fidelity  (Read 3953 times)

Offline John Witt

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Plans Sources and Fidelity
« on: May 29, 2009, 09:23:40 PM »
I'm shopping around for a good scale subject for my next electric U/C airplane and I have the perennial problem in that I'm in love with too many airplanes.  I'm trying to winnow down between several criteria and locate a source of good plans. By good plans I mean, at a minimum, those that can be relied on to be pretty exact in outline and the major details.  I'm a reasonably competent builder and can do my own structural details, but I want to begin with a good outline.

General criteria:

About 50-60 inch wingspan
no more than two engines (though I'll admit to thinking about Nexus Plans for a Lancaster)
Prefer late 20s through beginning of the jet age, which I guess would be the late 50s
Not any of the standards: Zero, P-51,P-47, etc., gotta be interesting cause it will take a year or two to build.

So many planes, so little time...

Nexus offers several good U/C candidates through Pepino's plans services, such as a 60 inch DC-3. Has anyone used their plans?

I've seen a couple of different Cleveland plans, has anyone checked their scale fidelity?

Wendell Hostetler now offers to make versions of their giant RC plans in different sizes. He has Lindberg's Sirius which would be nice at about 60% of the 102 inch span plan he offers. I have the Wylam plan set from MAN for the Lockheed Altair/Vega/Sirius for details, so that one is high on the list.

Anybody care to offer suggestions/reviews of plans sources? Should I just make my own?

Thanks in advance -- John Witt


John Witt
AMA 19892
Edmonds, WA
"Houston, Tranquillity Base here. The Eagle has landed."

Offline Trostle

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2009, 12:56:27 AM »
John,

What you have explained above is fairly general.  You suggest that you could start with an existing large RC design and scale it down.  You suggest that you could start with a Cleveland kit plans.  You suggest you want to build an electric UC scale design.  You suggest that you want to build from an existing design.  You suggest that you could do a multi-engine design.  So, I will sort of shoot in the dark here with a response that may or may not answer what you are looking for. 

You mention Nexus plans.  Nexus is located in England and has made available a large number of plans from various sources, like primarily Aeromodeller and Model Aircraft magazines and some of the British RC magazines.  Also listed by Nexus are plans from other RC plans services, again primarily from England.  Many of those CL scale plans in the Nexus listings were published as long ago as 50 years.  Some of those Aeromodeller plans are excellent though most will be on the small side.  Many of the Model Aircraft published plans are of more dubious quality, in my personal opinion, or in other words would make little more than some comparatively small sport scale designs.

First, there are few if any CL designs published of any decent electric powered scale design.  However, I have compiled a list of CL Scale design articles that have been published over the years.  The selections below are from my listing of twin CL scale designs.  Many of these plans are available from the AMA plans service.  I can attest that the plans sold by the AMA are first rate accurate duplicates of what was published and in many cases is the only source for these plans.  Plans would be available from the magazines for the more recent articles.

You asked about the Cleveland plans.   These were for stick and tissue models, though the wings could be sheeted and the fuselage/nacelles planked.  Their outline are very close to scale, but my be lacking good and accurate details.  If you are willing to start with something like the Cleveland plans, it would be just as easy to get a good set of 3-views, blow them up to the size you want and engineer your own design.

If you are looking for 3-views and reference material on any particular airplane, suggest you contact Bob Banka of Bob's Aircraft Documentation at

http://www.bobsairdoc.com

He has 40,000 three views and 8,000 color "Foto Paaks" that will have as many as 25 different photos.  Bob has a great collection and provides a great service.

(In no particular order:)

DeHavalland Hornet - Flying Models Jan, 2001, by Chuck Snyder (who frequents this board) Twin profile scale, 56 in span, sets the standard on how good a CL profile scale cam be.  Won Profile Scale at the 2000 Nats

Martin B-26 Model Airplane News, Aug 67, 53 inch span.  Fairly nice plans.

Martin B-26 , Model airplane News, Dec 2004  (This is an electric foam and balsa RC ship)  42 inch span, no LG details.

Heinkel 219, American Modeler, NovDec 64 by Walt Musciano.  One of Walt's better plans. a large model showed two Fox 59's.

Junkers Ju-88 by Roland Baltes, Model Builder Feb 1980, 65 inch span.  this Model was on the US scale team at least once.

P-38 by Clancy Arnold.  Model Aviation, Mar 86, 65 inch span.  Excellent details on drawings.

P-38 by Don Yearout.  Model Airplane News, Jun 65, 52 inch span.  Nicely done plans by an expert modeler.

P-38 by Jack Stolly, Model Aviation, Feb 88, super detailed plans, won Nats in 86, 55 inch span.

B-47D, Model Airplane news, May 58.  for twin 15's of this neat turboprop version of the B-47.  (Two full size airplanes were built.)

XB-35, Model Aviation, Jul 96.  RC, electric motors of this 4-engine pusher flying wing, 64 inch span.

Dornier Do 335, Flying Models, Feb/Mar 63.  Plans show a Fox 35 tractor and a Fox 19 pusher for his CL design, about a 41 inch span.  (More of a sport model than a serious scale project.)

P-61 Black Widow, Aeromodeller, Nov 70.  Smallish for two .15's. about a 50 inch span.

deHavilland Comet 88 by Ernest Violett.  Model Aviation, Oct 75.   Another nats winner.  Super drawings by a master craftsman. about 60 inch span

Focke Wulf Ta 154 by Marvin Martinez.  Model Airplane News, Nov 78,  Nice sport scale model of this attractive little known twin. two .35's

Avro Lancaster  Aeromodeller Oct 81 (?)  1/2 inch to the foot, 52 inch span,  for .09 or .10 engines  (actually four of the current .061's would fly this airplane nicely

this is by no means an exhaustive list.  It does show the twin engine construction articles that caught my attention over the years.

Keith

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2009, 08:21:19 AM »
John,
given your goals and abilities I would suggest a scratch-build from available documentation drawings. Scaling up or down will be as much work as designing your own. And you will have to make your own canopy and molded parts in either case. Any plan based on IC engines will be over-built (ie too heavy) with electrics.

Keith, thanks for your comments on the Hornet. I had to create a set of plans when Allen Brickhouse talked me into doing the magazine article. The model was built from enlarged copies of the documentation three-views I used, no "plans" involved. Actually only copied he curved parts like the vertical stab and canopy outline. Some of to outline accuracy was lost between me drawing plans, and the draftsman inking them for publication. Same design method on my Henschel 129.

John, top prioity: a prototype you love enough to devote the effort.

In any case get your documentation before you start building and compare to the plans--but I bet they won't match.

Some things i look for in a candidate: wide-track, tailwheel landing gear. Lots of wing area relative to the amount of fuselange that has to be hauled around (aspect ratio of 6 or less). This pushes you towards the thirties and away from long-range bombers, airliners, and such as the Westland Whirlwind. If you are going to have retracts, pick a prototype where the gear fold backwards (or forward like the DC-3); the centrifugal force of flying in a circle raises the challenge for retracts that fold towards the centerline. Or at least pick something with short legs like an AT-6 or SBD--not an FW-190 or Bearcat. (advice from a guy who had a 190 with retracts).

Back to your original question. Consider the Brian Taylor plans available (I believe) from Traplett in Britian. They are bigger than you want, but have a reputation for accuracy. My Typhoon is from Taylor plans and is quite accurate. I think they have a 65" Mosquito. (narrow wingtips don't meet my wing area criterion above). There are many Japanese WWII planes that would make excellent models, and are rarely modeled.

further free advice availableon request n~

Chuck


Offline John Witt

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2009, 09:32:03 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to make an extensive reply. Very good info. I have indeed given thought to just doing my own from some of the Wylam and Nye plans I've been carting around for years, and that may be the way to go in the end. The Lindberg Sirius is one I've actually been thinking about, off and on, since I saw a really nice static model in the late 50s. Always liked the planes of the 30s, in fact I think the Sirius would make a really nice stand-off scale stunter, stretched just a little. At 60" it would have just about the right proportions and has a nice thick wing.

Sounds like you may have some experience getting plans enlarged. Do you just use a commercial copy center to do that, if so how much trouble is it to get them to hit the right size?

John

John Witt
AMA 19892
Edmonds, WA
"Houston, Tranquillity Base here. The Eagle has landed."

Offline Trostle

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2009, 10:20:10 AM »

(clip)

Sounds like you may have some experience getting plans enlarged. Do you just use a commercial copy center to do that, if so how much trouble is it to get them to hit the right size?

John


As Chuck suggested, gather as much information as possible about the airplane before you start on the plans.  You really need to have an interest in the specific airplane you plan to model. 

Suggest you Google the name of the airplane, then when the Google page comes up, there may be any number of hits, though most will not be of much use.  But click on "Images" at the top of the page and some interesting material might show up.  Also, do a search on eBay.  Books, kits and other stuff show up.  Check Bob Bankas for more 3-views and photos.  Sometimes the Wylam plans are not always that accurate though they are, by the rulebook, an acceptable reference.

As far a enlarging plans are concerned, you can do your own at Kinko's, though a bit expensive.  Their oversize printers can enlarge to whatever size you want.  It might take several steps as their machines (at least the ones I have seen) can only enlarge up to 400% at one time.  You can get the span/length you want to probably less than 1/8" accuracy. 

Or you can go to a regular print or blueprint shop and they can do it for you and it will be usually cheaper than Kinko's.

Whatever source you use to enlarge the drawings, sometimes the machines are not calibrated very well.  There could be distortion in one dimension or the other.  In other words, to enlarge 10 inch lines to say 30 inches, you can get 30 inches in one dimension (like the X axis) and be off 1/2 inch or more in the Y axis.  This will be more of a problem at Kinko's than the blueprint shops.

Keith

Offline Thomas Wilk

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    • Tom Wilk's old mag plans on CD
Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2009, 05:38:21 PM »
From my C/L Scale CD - old magazine plans on cd - tawilk36@cpinternet.com

A-17A Nomad   1968 MAN Feb p11   46.50   356.00   .45   Scale   FSP02682   Wilson, Jim A.
A-28 Hudson 62   1962 FM Ap-My p21   41.00   240.00   .19x2   Scale   CF150   Palanek, Paul J.
A-28 Hudson 67   1967 FM Jul p40   40.00   238.00   .19x2   Scale   MPS-64   Palanek, Paul J.
A-2D Skyshark   1950 MAN Dec p15   28.50   131.00   .19-.49   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
A5M4 Claude   1962 AM Jan p16   36.50   238.50   .29   Scale   162   Musciano, Walt A.
A6M Zero   1954 ATH Feb p29   28.75   135.75   .14-.29   Scale   254   Musciano, Walt A.
Aero Commander   1953 MAN Sep p21   49.00   360.00   .15x2   Scale       Moynihan, Jim
Aeronca 7-AC Champ   1948 ATP Feb p50   37.00   212.75   .35   Scale       Seidler, Bill
Aeronca C-3 Collegian   1949 ATP Feb p41   50.00   320.00   .29   Scale   107   Hollinger, Chuck
AF Guardian   1955 FM Apr p9   30.00   138.00   .19-.60   Scale       Dulaitis, David V.
AO-1 Mohawk   1960 AM Oct p14   37.00   278.00   .15x2   Scale   1060   Plecan, Paul
AT-6 Texan-SNJ 50   1950 AT Jan p38   42.00   256.50   .32-.60   Scale   150   Smith, S. Cal
AT-6 Texan-SNJ 52   1952 AT Annl p40   42.00   256.50   .32-.60   Scale   150   Smith, S. Cal
B-24 Liberator   1954 ATH Aug p21   68.00   445.50   .29x4   Scale   854   Lashek, Frank & Smith, Cal
B-25H Mitchell 62   1962 MAN Oct p11   56.50   469.44   .45x2   Scale   A-12   Piorkowski, Florian S.
B-26 Marauder 53   1953 AT Mar p33   48.50   363.75   .29x2   Scale   353   Shulman, Leon
B-26 Marauder 67   1967 MAN Aug p11   53.25   344.50   .29x2   Scale   A-70   Simmance, John
B-47D Stratojet   1958 MAN May p10   54.00   275.00   .15x2   Scale   FSP05582   Parks, Bob L.
Ballerina   1972 MAN Aug p17   44.00   387.00   .60   Scale   FSP08721   Wills, Lloyd A.
Beagle Basset   1972 AM-e Jan p16   45.00   218.00   .09x2   Scale   1140   Barrett, Ian
Bede BD-9   1979 MA Jun p40   40.00   240.00   .15-.25   Scale   266   Mathews, D. B. & Kruse, L.
Bell XP-77   1945 MAN Aug p18   33.00   128.00   .29-.60i   Scale   fs-parts   Everett, Dick
Bellanca Cruisair   1947 AW Jan p47   37.50   191.25   .19i   Scale       Granai, Joe
Bellanca Skyrocket   1951 AT Annl p45   33.00   148.00   .099   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
Bellanca XRE-1   1959 MAN Jul p12   47.50   320.50   .19-.35   Scale   60   Musciano, Walt A.
Benny Howards' Pete   1980 MA Feb p48   35.00   240.00   .20    Scale   289   Schaaf, Paul H .J.r
Bf-109 80   1980 MAN Feb p58   50.00   400.00   .40   Scale   FSP02803   Felton, Chuck A.
Bf-110 Zerostorer   1980 MAN Jul p53   39.50   227.00   .15x2   Scale   FSP07802   Musciano, Walt A.
Bf-110 Zerostorer  MA   1980 MA Jun p27   60.00   664.00   .25x2   Scale   31   Ashby, Steve
Bleriot Flyer   1978 MAN Aug p15   28.00   184.50   .15-.25   Scale   FSP08783   Musciano, Walt A.
Boeing L-15   1948 ATP May p63   33.00   140.25   .19i   Scale   f-size   Plecan, Paul
Brewster Buffalo   1960 MAN Jul p12   35.00   215.00   .35-.60   Scale   72   Clements, Vern
Buster   1947 MAN Dec p14   32.00   208.00   .09i   Scale   1-4 fs   Noonan, Jim J.
C-130 Hercules   1956 ATH Jun p32   64.00   384.00   .09x4   Scale   656   Edwards, Henry G.
C-3603 Swiss Fighter   1976 MA Mar p22   45.00   310.00   .29-35   Scale   132   Felton, Chuck A.
C-47 Goony Bird   1954 ATH Dec p20   48.00   258.00   .19x2   Scale   1249   Musciano, Walt A.
CA-65 Sky Fly   1971 FM Oct p32   50.00   452.00   .40   Scale   CF241   Adair, Bob
Cassutt Special   1965 AM My-Jn p34   2900   300.00   .35   Scale   565   Beatty, Frank W.
Cessna 150 Aerobat   1975 MA Sep p32   36.00   200.00   .09   Scale   113   Schaaf, Paul H. Jr.
Cessna 310   1956 MAN Sep p9   36.50   187.50   .15   Scale       Williamson, Harry A.
Cessna 320D Skynight   1965 MAN Jan p11   54.00   462.00   .35x2   Scale   A-39   Hudson, Homer J.
Cessna 336 Skymaster   1964 AM Jl-Ag p16   38.00   220.00   .15x2   Scale   764   Welch, Robert
Channel Wing   1951 AT Oct p66   12.50   62.50   .25   Scale       Christensen, L. W.
Chilton DW1A   1966 AM Mr-Ap p12   40.75   265.00   .35   Scale   366   Beatty, Frank W.
Corben Super Ace   1950 ATP Aug p50   29.251   32.00   .09-.19   Scale       Frake, Warner
Curtiss Hawk 75   1962 FM Ot-Nv p14   38.00   254.75   .29-.45   Scale   CF164   Palanek, Paul J.
Curtiss Robin   1977 MAN Aug p23   64.00   634.20   .40   Scale   FSP08772   Felton, Chuck A.
Davis Manta   1964 FM Fb-Mr p32   33.50   451.00   .35   Scale       Del Gatto, Paul E.
DC-3 (Douglas)   1950 MBM p32   48.00   295.00   .20x2   Scale       Kohn, Greg
Defiant    1967 AM Aug p14   52.50   520.00   .35   Scale   867   Price, Harold L.
Defiant 73   1973 MAN Aug p17   39.25   277.50   .35   Scale   FSP08732   Felton, Chuck A.
Dewoitine D510 62   1962 AM Oct p32   30.25   122.00   .15   Scale   1062   Mowrer, Don E.
Dewoitine D510 80   1980 MAN Sep p46   40.00   217.00   .15   Scale   FSP09804   Khan, Raja S.
DGA-3 Pete   1945 MAN Oct p14   30.00   180.00   .19-.29   Scale   fs-parts   Ehling, Frank V. B.
DGA-5 Ike 61   1961 AM Mar p30   41.00   321.25   .35   Scale   361   Beatty, Frank W.
DGA-5 Ike 62   1962 MAN Annl p11   34.75   230.00   .35   Scale   A-3   Musciano, Walt A.
DH-88 Comet    1950 AT Sept p44   32.75   121.50   .09x2   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
DH-88 Comet 75   1975 MA Oct p12   60.00   390.50   .35x2   Scale   114   Violett, Ernest R. Jr.
DH-89A Dominie   1964 FM Ot-Nv p28   36.50   260.00   .15x2   Scale   CF233   Swanstron, S. B.
DH-98 Mosquito   1963 FM Ju-Jl p8   38.00   238.00   .25x2   Scale   CF184   Palanek, Paul J.
Eindecker E3   1962 MAN Annl p57   59.00   606.75   .35   Scale   79   Carkhuff, Don
Ercoupe   1947 MAN Sep p9   22.62   125.00   .23i   Scale   fs-parts   Mountjoy, Morris
F-11-C Hawk    1979 AT CFM-W p34   24.00   153.75   .09   Scale       Michaels, Sid
F4F-3 Wildcat    1963 AM My-Jn p25   38.00   271.50   .60   Scale   663   Musciano, Walt A.
F4F-4 Wildcat   1953 AT Sep p27   29.50   160.00   .19-.35   Scale   953   Musciano, Walt A.
F4U Corsair 57   1957 MAN May p14   30.00   192.75   .29-.35   Scale       Atkins, E. R. Jr.
F4U-1 Corsair   1950 MAN Nov p18   22.00   88.00   .09   Scale   f-size   Ealy, Dick
F4U-1A Corsair   1963 AM Nv-Dc p20   38.00   290.00   .59   Scale   1263   Musciano, Walt A.
F4U-4B Corsair    1971 FM Jul p26   62.00   786.25   .60   Scale   CF228   Kulp, Ira
F6F Hellcat    1979 AT CFM-W p62   42.00   308.00   .29   Scale       Gurnieri, Chuck
F6F-6 Hellcat   1948 ATP Jan p61   20.00   63.00   .09i   Scale       Lee, C.
F7F Tigercat   1957 AM Jun p18   41.50   310.00   .29-.35x2   Scale       Plecan, Paul
F-82 Twin Mustang   1947 AW Sep p16   25.00   90.00   .09dx2   Scale      Seidler, William
F-82 Twin Mustang 51   1951 AT Annl p8   61.00   633.00   .29x2   Scale       Smith, S. Cal
F8F Bearcat (Gulf Hawk)   1961 AM Feb p19   26.50   138.50   .19   Scale   261   Musciano, Walt A.
F8F Bearcat 79   1979 AT CFM-S p89   24.00   102.00   .23 i   Scale       Noonan, Bill
F8F Gulf Hawk   1961 AM Feb p19   26.50   138.50   .19   Scale   261   Musciano, Walt A.
F8F Gulfhawk 68   1968 AAM Annl p30   33.50   221.75   .35   Scale   A-68   MacZura, Warren
F8U-1 Crusader 60   1960 MAN Aug p9   27.50   231.00   .D-jet   Scale   73   Atkins, E. R. Jr.
F8U-1 Crusader 62   1962 MAN Annl p59   27.50   231.00   .D-jet   Scale   73   Coles, Jes
Fairchild FC-22   1972 MAN Oct p17   48.00   384.00   .40   Scale   FSP10722   Hague, Don E.
Fairey Firefly mk1   1964 FM Fb-Mr p30   40.00   333.00   .60   Scale   CF207   Swanstron, S. B.
FJ-3 Fury   1962 MAN Apr p11   37.50   306.75   .D-jet   Scale   A-6   Coles, Jes
Fly Baby 78   1978 MA May p27   42.50   301.00   .35-.40   Scale   223   Haught, Dave
Fokker D VIII 69   1969 MAN Jun p11   31.00   164.00   .19   Scale   A-92   Sutton, John H.
Fokker D-8 46   1946 AW Nov p45   26.75   99.00   .19i   Scale      Tyler, Bill F.
Fokker D-8 56   1956 FM Oct p10   34.50   202.00   .35   scale      Stevenson, Harold
Fokker E-III Eindecker   1961 MAN Feb p11   53.00   408.75   .35   Scale   79   Carkhuff, Don
Fw190 53   1953 AT Sep p27   25.75   126.50   .14-.29   Scale   953C   Musciano, Walt A.
Gee Bee R1   1961 MAN Annl p11   28.00   144.00   .35   Scale   0A611   Del Gatto, Paul E.
Gee Bee Z   1951 MAN Oct p32   30.75   165.00   .19   Scale       McBrayer, Les
Globe Swift   1947 AW Jul p16   27.00   108.00   .19i   Scale       Lee, Chuck
Hawker Tempest   1962 AM Mar p27   42.00   336.00   .60   Scale   A-362   Musciano, Walt A.
He-219 UHU 64   1964 AM Nv-Dc p41   60.00   575.00   .60x2   Scale   1164   Musciano, Walt A.
Heath Midwing    1950 AT Dec p42   38.50   216.00   .099   Scale   1250   Plecan, Paul
Hm-14 Pou-du-Ciel   1949 MAN Aug p24   24.00   235.00   .099   Scale       Hollinger, Chuck
Hughes H-1 63   1963 MAN Nov p20   43.50   485.00   .60   Scale   A-25   Musciano, Walt A.
Hughes HR-1 50   1950 HMB p44   25.00   149.00   .49i   Scale       Smith, Stinson
Hurricane 53   1953 AT Sep p27   30.25   151.00   .14-.29   Scale   953   Musciano, Walt A.
Hurricane 64   1964 AM Annl p24   36.50   228.00   .35   Scale   640   Musciano, Walt A.
Ju-88   1980 MB Feb p60   66.00   608.35   .40x2   Scale   2802   Baltes, Roland H.
Junkers D1   1978 MAN Oct p15   44.50   409.00   .30-.40   Scale   FSP10783   Felton, Chuck A.
Ki61 Hein-Tony 59   1959 AM Aug p18   29.00   122.00   .09-.15   Scale   859   Musciano, Walt A.
Kittiwake   1973 MAN May p11   46.00   404.50   .35   Scale   FSP05732   Uminski, Andy
Lancaster   1970 AMe Aug p442   52.00   312.00   .09x4   Scale   1081   Towner, Harold
Lark 95   1969 MAN Mar p17   27.00   129.75   .10   Scale   FSP03692   Mowrer, Don E.
Lavochkin La-7   1964 AM My-Ju p35   32.00   190.00   .23-35   Scale   564   Musciano, Walt A.
Lockheed Vega   1965 AM Mr-AP p12   51.00   453.60   .35-.60   Scale   465   Musciano, Walt A.
Long Midget   1949 ATP Sep p44   32.00   217.50   .29   Scale   949   Smith, S. Cal
Martin AM-1 Mauler   1948 ATP Oct p50   17.00   59.50   .09-.19   Scale   f-size   Musciano, Walt A.
Martin-Baker MB2    1969 MAN Aug p11   23.00   98.75   .09   Scale   20   Arnould, John E.
Me-109 61   1961 AM Aug p18   33.25   187.00   .35   Scale      Musciano, Walt A.
Me110 58 Zerstorer   1958 AM Apr p15   40.25   261.50   .23x2   Scale   458   Musciano, Walt A.
Me110D Zerstorer   1966 AM My-Ju p34   53.00   390.00   .35x2   Scale   566   Musciano, Walt A.
Mesmith Cougar   1971 AAM Apr p25   20.00   77.00   .19   Scale   414   Buenzly, Bob C.
Meteor F mk8   1974 AAM Jan p68   54.50   775.00   .40x2DF   Scale   0143   Nelson, David D.
MiG15   1957 MAN Jan p9   44.50   347.00   .D-jet   Scale       Yonkers, Howard R.
MiG21D Fishbed   1969 AAM Nov p38   25.50   318.40   .40   Scale   1193   Baltes, Roland H.
MiG-3   1959 AM Apr p31   28.00   159.00   .29   Scale   459   Musciano, Walt A.
Minnow   1949 ATP Jan p41   38.00   291.00   .49-.51   Scale   106   Plecan, Paul
Miss Champion   1973 MAN Oct p17   30.00   177.00   .60   Scale   10733   Miller, George
Miss Los Angeles   1949 MAN Mar p10   23.00   126.50   .23i   Scale       Bedish, Gabriel
MJ2 Tempte   1976 MA Aug p22   36.00   304.00   .19-.29   Scale   154   Miller, Pete D.
Monocoupe 90A 48   1948 MAN Oct p10   35.00   382.00   .29i   Scale       Marlown, Len
Monocoupe 90A 64   1964 FM Fb-Mr p33   32.00   150.00   .35   Scale       Del Gatto, Paul E.
Mooney Mite   1949 ATP Dec p42   27.25   100.75   .14   Scale      Kochman, Aubrey "Red"
Morane-Saulnier MS 406-C1   1962 AM Annl p96   35.00   225.00   .35   Scale   1261   Dulaitis, David V.
Mr Mulligan   1950 HMB p68   39.00   260.00   .29i   Scale       Plecan, Paul
Navion   1946 MAN Jul p17   32.75   196.50   .23i   Scale   fs-parts   Ehling, Frank V. B.
Northrop Delta   1970 FM Nov p33   38.00   218.75   .19   Scale   CF756   Musciano, Walt A.
Northrop Gamma Polar Star   1951 MAN Jan p19   32.00   182.00   .09-.29   Scale       Newell, D. A.
Northrop Gamma Sky Chief   1950 MBM p38   32.00   165.00   .19-.49   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
Orion   1950 AT Feb p42   33.75   188.00   .23-.49   Scale   250   Newell, D. A.
OS2U-1 Kingfisher 54   1954 MAN Mar p10   38.00   601.00   .29-.35   Scale       Moynihan, Jim
OS2U-1 Kingfisher 55   1955 ATH May p42   24.00   119.50   .14-.29   Scale   555   ChriStunten, A. E.
OV-10 Bronco    1972 AAM Oct p27   39.50   300.00   .29x2   Scale   1021   LaBarage, Jim
P-26A Peashooter 50   1950 MBM p16   27.00   155.00   .19-.49   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
P-26A Peashooter 65   1965 MAN Mar p11   41.00   350.00   .35   Scale   FSP03652     Worth, Jerry L.
P-36 Hawk   1954 MAN Feb p11   26.00   104.00   .15-.25   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
P-38 Lightning 65   1965 MAN Jun p11   52.75   360.00   .35x2   Scale   FSP06652   Yearout, Don
P-38 Lightning AM   1956 AM Dec p30   41.25   233.00   .35x2   Scale   1256B   Musciano, Walt A.
P-39 Airacobra 54   1954 ATH Jun p30   28.25   178.00   .15   Scale   654   Musciano, Walt A.
P-40 Kittyhawk   1963 AM Annl p9   38.00   270.00   .59   Scale   630   Musciano, Walt A.
P-47 Thunderbolt 61   1961 AM Sep p18   42.00   331.00   .40-.60   Scale   961   Musciano, Walt A.
P-47 Thunderbolt 62   1962 FM Jn-Jl p18   57.00   460.00   .19-.35   Scale   CF152   Del Gatto, Paul E.
P-47B Thunderbolt   1954 AT Annl p28   35.00   222.70   .15-.35   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
P-51 Mustang 50   1950 MBM p86   32.00   176.00   .23i   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
P-51B Mustang 62   1962 AM May p19   37.50   250.00   .29-.45   Scale   562   Musciano, Walt A.
P-51D Mustang 68   1968 MAN Jun p11   46.50   387.75   .60   Scale   FSP06681   Hudson, Homer J.
P-51H Mustang   1955 MAN May p9   30.50   160.25   .15   Scale      McCroskey, Jim
P-63A King Cobra   1959 AM Jan p20   29.00   175.00   .19-.35   Scale   159   Musciano, Walt A.
PB2-A   1952 AT Mar p36   40.00   250.00   .59   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
Penguin   1972 AAM Jan p26   44.00   439.00   .19-.35   Scale   121   Kingman, Dave
Pfalz E1   1979 MAN Mar p15   37.00   258.50   .15   Scale   FSP03792   Hollison, Mike
Piper P-8 Skycycle   1945 MAN Nov p16   30.00   181.50   .60i   Scale      Luck, John S.
Piper PA-23 Apache   1964 MAN Feb p11   60.00   505.00   .35x2   Scale   28   Norment, Bill
Piper PA-24 Comanche   1962 MAN Jun p11   49.00   350.25   .35   Scale   FSP06621   Piorkowski, Florian S.
Piper PA-25 Pawnee   1961 MAN Oct p16   37.00   199.75   .19-.29   Scale   87   Mowrer, Don E.
PT-22 Recruit    1959 MAN Mar p12   33.50   167.50   .23-.25   Scale   56   Beatty, Frank W.
PT-22 Recruit 66   1966 MAN Jul p12   49.50   390.00   .35   Scale   A-57   Tepper, Ed
R-4 Jackrabbit   1972 MAN Jun p17   37.00   276.00   .49   Scale   FSP06722   Metz, George
Ryan M-1 Mailplane   1975 MAN Oct p10   70.00   881.00   .60   Scale   FSP10752   Angel, Bob
S-2G Tracker   1977 FM Jan p24   63.50   327.00   .35x2   Scale   CF428   Hall, Steve A.
SAAB 91C Safir   1958 AM Feb p30   36.50   161.00   .15-.29   Scale   258   Fang-chiun, Hoh
Shoestring   1952 AT Sep p28   33.25   222.75   .29   Scale   952   Smith, S. Cal
SNJ Texan 60   1960 MAN May p9   52.00   359.50   .29-.35   Scale   70   Schroder, Walt L.
Spezio Sport Tuholer   1973 AAM Sep p28   48.00   500.00   .29-.40   Scale   931   Haught, Clarence
Spinks Akromaster 72   1972 MAN Jul p12   34.50   210.50   .19   Scale   110   Boretto, Phil
Spirit of St Louis   1950 HMB p38   40.00   247.00   .23-.65   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
Spirit of St. Louis 65   1965 FM Dc-Ja p8   46.00   320.00   .19   Scale   CF241   Palanek, Paul J.
Spitfire IX   1950 HMB p56   28.00   157.00   .19-.35   Scale       Struck, Dick
Spitfire mk VIII   1966 AM Jl-Ag p27   34.00   210.00   .35   Scale   766   Musciano, Walt A.
Spitfire mk-IIa   1972 AAM Dec p22   49.50   464.00   .61   Scale   1221   Meador, Malvin E.
Stephens Akro   1975 AAM Mar p42   48.00   514.25   .46   Scale   353   Dixon, Tom
Stinson L-5   1948 AT Jun p49   36.00   246.00   .29d   Scale   102   Shulman, Leon
Stinson Reliant   1950 MBM p56   31.00   184.00   .23i   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
Stits Jr 51   1951 AT Jun p36   17.75   140.50   .19   Scale       Kochman, Aubrey "Red"
Stits Playboy   1957 AM Jan p26   39.00   287.00   .19-.29   Scale   157   Lashek, Frank & Smith, Cal
Stits Playboy 58   1958 FM Jan p19   22.00   110.00   .09   Scale   fs-parts   Munyon, Dale
Sweet Pea 50   1950 MBM p10   242.00   312.00   .60i   Scale       Smith, S. Cal
T-34A Mentor   1960 AM Nov p23   48.00   346.50   .60   Scale   1160   Musciano, Walt A.
Ta154 Moskito   1978 MAN Nov p25   51.00   363.25   .35x2   Scale   FSP11783   Martinez, Marvin R.
Time Flies   1957 AM Oct p22   23.50   99.75   .19   Scale   1057   Hawks, Frank
Tipsy Jr 52   1952 MAN Nov p20   40.50   373.00   .29-.35   Scale       Blanchard, Bill  S. Jr.
Tipsy Nipper   1960 AM Dec p16   39.00   253.50   .15   Scale      Harris, George
Tipsy Nipper man   1960 MAN Dec p18   39.00   253.50   .15   Scale   77   Noonan, James
Triple Threat - Me109 E   1952 AT Dec p41   22.50   117.00   .09-.15   Scale   1253   Musciano, Walt A.
Triple Threat - P-51    1952 AT Dec p36   29.00   139.50   .09-.29   Scale   1253   Musciano, Walt A.
Triple Threat - Spitfire    1952 AT Dec p40   27.00   140.00   .09-.29   Scale   1253   Musciano, Walt A.
Typhoon 54   1954 ATH Apr p36   31.50   151.00   .29   Scale   454   Musciano, Walt A.
Vikers Wellesley   1974 AAM Jun p46   40.00   219.00   .15   Scale      Hollison, Mike
VP-1 Volksplane   1977 MB Oct p61   36.00   229.25   .15   Scale   10773   Schroeder, Vern
Wedell Williams Racer   1950 HMB p26   26.001   33.00   .19-.49   Scale       Musciano, Walt A.
Wittman Buttercup    1951 MAN May p28   45.00   342.00   .60   Scale       Palanek, Paul J.
Wittman Special   1947 ATP Dec p53   24.00   132.00   .19i   Scale       Tyler, Bill F.
XF15C-1 – Curtiss   1949 FM Oct p45   16.00   52.00   .19   Scale   f-size   Musciano, Walt A.
XF4U-7 Corsair   1960 FM Jan p8   37.00   250.00   .35   Scale      Palanek, Paul J.
XP-81   1950 MAN Apr p22   25.25   111.00   .23   Scale       Ealy, Dick
XP-81 63   1963 MAN Apr p18   28.00   135.00   .15   Scale   A-18   Metzger, Jim
Yak 25   1957 AM Jul p14   43.00   347.30   .35   Scale   757   Fostura, George
Yak 3   1965 AM Sp-Ot p32   32.00   200.75   .19   Scale   965   Musciano, Walt A.


Offline John Witt

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 06:51:25 PM »
Tom, do you sell the CD? What's the format of the plans?

Thanks,

JW
John Witt
AMA 19892
Edmonds, WA
"Houston, Tranquillity Base here. The Eagle has landed."

Offline Thomas Wilk

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2009, 04:39:17 PM »
John;

the scans are name.JPG files.  the CD is $10.00 + $1.00 postage in the US.  send me your email address and I'll send the clyer of all the CDs available.

tawilk36@cpinternet.com

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2009, 09:08:07 AM »
The CD's Tom has are worth every penny if not more.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2009, 08:08:23 PM »
John
Both my P-38 that is listed above and was in the March 1986 Model Aviation and the De Havilland C-7A Caribou that received three NATS FAI Scale trophies were built to the 3-views that I received from the aircraft manufacturers.

I just had the P-38 drawings enlarged to the size I needed plus a pile of photographs of the prototype setting at the Indy Air Show.

The C-7A Caribou was built from enlarged three views and a bunch of photos taken at the Air Force Museum.  One thing that was not easy to determine was the spacing of the windows on the cargo area.  I had a picture taken at an angle that showed all of the windows so I projected that on a wall at a complimentary angle and cut the holes to match up to the projected image.

That is Jack Sheeks wading in the snow behind the Caribou.
Clancy
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN   AMA 12560 LM-S
U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.

Offline John Witt

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2009, 03:59:09 PM »
Thanks for the responses, gentlemen. The hardest part of this process is deciding which plane. Almost anything could be made to work, but as someone mentioned, you have to love it because of the labor involved.  I recently sent to the Nat'l Air and Space Museum for several of their available plans and I noticed in the listing they publish, some of the usual suspects, like Nieto annd Wylam. I'll repost with some photos and info when they come in in a couple of weeks. One of my candidates that I've always liked is the P-61, and I found this cool website done by a group that is restoring one. They even offer a large scale RC ARF of the P-61 that looks pretty nice.

http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_rest.htm

I'm not going to decide in a hurry, for sure. But there will be something.

BTW, what is (roughly) the largest practicle size and weight for a UC scale. Big is usually better, and I noticed in a listing of the world's winners that they seem to cluster around 10-12 lbs. That generates a lot of line force at 50 mph. I have personally seen a 9.5 foot B-36 and the guy used two hands for it -- don't know what it weighed.

John
John Witt
AMA 19892
Edmonds, WA
"Houston, Tranquillity Base here. The Eagle has landed."

Offline Thomas Wilk

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2009, 05:34:11 PM »
This museum is in Reading, PA.  I was there a few years ago just after they uncrated the pieces.  the plane was recovered from the jungle around Borneo.  They said it had about 10 hours flight time on it when it crashed.

Tom Wilk

Offline chuck snyder

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2009, 06:48:19 PM »
John, the models at the World Championships comply with the FAI (F4B) rules that have a maximum weight of 13.2# (6kg) for a single engine model and 15.4# (7kg) for a multi engine model. Most of the models are near the limit--bigger flies better and the details add a lot of weight.

I have been flying a Brian Taylor Hawker Typhoon in Sport Scale at just under 15# and an F4B Hs129 at 6.98 kg. They do pull pretty hard and I would not want to fly anything at the 20# limit for Sport Scale. You can't fly fast!!!
I also have a converted from R/C Skyshark Val that is my best flying model. It is about 7.5# with a 2 stroke .61. In my opinion that is the optimum size considering pull, cost, flyability, and ability to detail for good static scores. I might be able to fly the Val a couple points better than the Typhoon, but the Typhoon is much better in accuracy of outline.
Chuck

Offline John Witt

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity--Plans from NASM
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2009, 09:45:23 AM »
Plans I ordered from the National Air and Space Museum arrived yesterday. I'll have to say, that given the cost, they are a bit disappointing. I ordered the B-26 (Flak Bait), P-61 and Lindberg's Sirius.  Very little detail is shown, they are basically just outline drawings, and somewhat crude in spots (hand sketched). Would probably be OK for part of a scale document package, but little else. The Wylam, Matt and Nieto plans are substantially better.

Will try to post some pictures later.

John
John Witt
AMA 19892
Edmonds, WA
"Houston, Tranquillity Base here. The Eagle has landed."

Offline Trostle

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity--Plans from NASM
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2009, 05:50:29 PM »
Plans I ordered from the National Air and Space Museum arrived yesterday. I'll have to say, that given the cost, they are a bit disappointing.

(clip)

John

I still recommend you check with Bob Banka of Bob's Aircraft Documentation at

http://www.bobsairdoc.com

You might be pleasantly surprised at what he can provide.

Keith

Offline Hoss Cain

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2009, 10:53:38 PM »
//SNIP//

BTW, what is (roughly) the largest practicle size and weight for a UC scale. Big is usually better, and I noticed in a listing of the world's winners that they seem to cluster around 10-12 lbs. That generates a lot of line force at 50 mph. I have personally seen a 9.5 foot B-36 and the guy used two hands for it -- don't know what it weighed.

John

The AMA rules for CL Scale weight and engine:
>>>>
2.6: Maximum total displacement of the engine(s) will not exceed 1.25 cubic inches. Electric motors of any size may be used to power the model. Fifty percent of the actual displacement of four (4) cycle engines shall be used for determining maximum displacements allowed, line sizes, and pull test requirements.
<<<<

That means you could get by with 2.5 cubes with a 4-stroker. Methinks the rulemakers are somewhat liberal with that 50% rule. Heck it was 60% way back before dirt when I flew CL.  :##
2.5 cube 4-stroker and teen #s could be a whale of a pull. NAH, not fer mine self! %^@
Horrace Cain
AMA L-93 CD and Leader
New Caney, TX  (NE Houston area)

Offline Trostle

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Re: Plans Sources and Fidelity
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2009, 01:02:15 PM »
The Lockheed Electra by Earl Carpenter hung in the T&A Hobby Shop for years and was also on the cover of Flying Models some time ago.  It had at least a 6 ft span and had either ST 23's or ST 29's.  I think they were .29's. I do not know what it weighed, but I do know it was not light.  I saw that airplane fly once.  Earl had a leather harness that wrapped around his shoulders and torso.  He had to have somebody hold onto the straps behind his shoulders to keep him from being pulled across the circle.  Before the straps were being held, the model would literally drag him across the circle, both feet planted on the pavement and leaning backwards at a very steep angle.

I would think the 1.25 cu in total displacement is plenty for any practical sized CL airplane as long as we are limited to 70 foot lines by the AMA rulebook.  And the 50% displacement allowance for four stroke engines that could result in a total of 2.5 cu in borders on the ridiculous if not totally ridiculous for exceeding a practical size for a CL Scale model.

Keith

Keith


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