Author Topic: Lavochkin La-5 - Brodak kit. (Read 14933 times)

John Rist · « **on:** October 19, 2010, 04:53:39 PM »

Well I have started the Lavochkin La-5 Brodak Kit.

The first step was to design and build a 1 channel electronic throttle controll. That part is finished and works very well. I am thinking of perhaps building a few for sale. My plan is to provide a complete package ready to drop into an airplane. The package will contain the controll head, handle, insulated lines, all the interconnect needed for the airplane. My thinking is that I could provide a Plug-N-play package that requires no soldering. This would make it possible to install withought being into electronics. They will be built one at a time, tailored to the needs of the buyer. Such thing as line length and diameter can be specified by the end user. Also the decal will have the pilots name on it. As custom built it will take a couple of weeks to get one. Not sure of cost yet but price will include a Tom More handle, a set of Brodak insulated lines, connectors etc.

As you can see in the picture I have the wing started. The brodak kit has been spot on so far. Wing is straight and light. More to come as it happens.

Michael Boucher · « **Reply #1 on:** October 20, 2010, 07:56:01 AM »

That's looking neat John.

John Miller · « **Reply #2 on:** October 20, 2010, 10:47:59 AM »

Did the rib tabs help you with the wing build? Did the dihedral come out correctly? I'm enjoying your comments and pics of the build.

John Rist · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2010, 03:04:49 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on October 20, 2010, 10:47:59 AM

Did the rib tabs help you with the wing build? Did the dihedral come out correctly? I'm enjoying your comments and pics of the build.

The Instruction recommended that you purchase a piece of 1/4" glass and cover it with sheetrock. I had a double thick piece of glass left over from a door that I covered with sheetrock. Turned out to be very flat. I built the wing on this board per the instructions. I didn't even bother to cover the drawing with wax paper. The tab system worked very well. Dihedral is correct and wing is straight. Because of the tabs the wing doesn't really touch the drawing. When I got ready to remove the wing from the board it was only stuck in one or two places. I was able to cut the tab leaving part of the tab on the drawing - no damage to the wing. I wouldn't recommend this as a first kit for a beginner - instructions are OK but require a little understanding of model construction.

John Miller · « **Reply #4 on:** November 30, 2010, 02:14:10 PM »

Hi John, just wondering if you've made any progress on this build? Obviously, I've an interest in it.

Cheers

John Milller

John Rist · « **Reply #5 on:** November 30, 2010, 02:55:16 PM »

Well since the last post I have had back surgery. It all went well, cleaned out some bone spurs on L2, L3, L4, & L5. Pain is gone and I am back in business.

Wing is almost finished. Next step is build the wing tips. Looks like this may be the hardest part of the wing. Lots of parts for each tip.

I received the motor, speed controller and batteries. All cheep stuff from China. They say you get whats you pay for - but so far it looks like this set up should work for scale. The motor is a Turnigy C3548-900. Speed controller is a Mystery 60Amp, Batteries are UPO 4C 3000mah ( 3 each). Test stand run yielded 14 volts, 35 amps, 10,300 RPM on a 11 5.5 APCe. Should be more than enough power. Most of the flight is at less than full throttle so the battery should be over kill.

John Rist · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2010, 09:31:14 AM »

Wing is finished. It weighs 9 oz. This includes all of the controls including control cable for the electronic throttle. It does not include the 1-1/2 oz wing tip weight. Not the easiest wing I ever built but I didn't have any major problems. Wind tips were the hardest part but between the Brodak instruction book and plans it was OK. It does look good.

Next I will start the tail feathers. Lots of carving of thick blocks of wood to get the corrects airfoil.

John Miller · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2010, 01:49:35 PM »

That's looking good John.

Are your leadouts adjustable?

John Brodak built two of them, one to practise with, and one to fly in contests. He lost the practise plane flying combat with his brother. Keep it light, and it'll really fly well.

John Rist · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2010, 06:10:45 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on December 04, 2010, 01:49:35 PM

That's looking good John.

Are your leadouts adjustable?

John Brodak built two of them, one to practise with, and one to fly in contests. He lost the practise plane flying combat with his brother. Keep it light, and it'll really fly well.

Right now I have the leadouts located per the print. However they are adjustable if need be - it would be a hassle but they are adjustable. I have the connector for the electronic throttle mounted between the leadouts - buried in the wing tip slot. If I move the leadouts much I would have to cut the connector loose and move it also. As a scale ship I am guessing the location on the plans should be good. I don't plan to do any over head maneuvers.

John Rist · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2010, 01:24:13 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on December 06, 2010, 01:05:06 PM

Hi John.
Bring the wing to the meeting to night so all the club members can fondle it and get their finger prints on all that nice balsa.

I might - Except up close one can see all of defects! OK I bring it anyway.

John Rist · « **Reply #10 on:** December 12, 2010, 10:48:54 PM »

Figured out the motor mount. Got the how-to from electric section of Stunt Hanger. I may off set motor to out-board side so I can cover in-board side cheek per print. Battery fits between motor rails. I still need to add the plywood doubler on side shown. I will do a cutout for the battery.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #11 on:** December 13, 2010, 08:58:52 AM »

Another awesome project.

John Miller · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2010, 04:47:52 PM »

I noticed that you are mounting your motor at the rear. Are you also planning to use a front mount? It looks like the motor and battery should mount quite clean to the profile fuse. Oh, yeah, retracts?

John Rist · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2010, 05:09:43 PM »

What Ty said. Also The motor came as a rear mount making that the easy way to do it. Becides it moved the mount back far enough to pick up the hard wood motor mount beams. The 1/2" sq hardwood stops about 1 1/2" back and the front is filled with balsa wood. Motor ran smooth on the test stand as a rear mount.

Quote from: John Miller on December 16, 2010, 04:47:52 PM

Oh, yeah, retracts?

No retracts. Profile scale does not require them. Looks like that is about the only thing that is easier with profile.

John Rist · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2010, 10:47:01 AM »

Fuselage is ruffed in and the wing fits. Next I will build the tail feathers. Then comes the Job of putting it all together. Their is quite a bit if work to create the wing to fuselage fairing. The other mystery (right now) is how to handle the landing gears. 3 view shows complicated landing struts. Kit has straight wire. Also I have to work out how to mount the wheel door covers.

John Rist · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2010, 09:46:22 PM »

The tail feathers on this model are 1/2" thick blocks of balsa. They have to be sanded to a taper. Per the instructions this can be done with three round rods - 1/2", 5/16, and 3/16. You start out with the 1/2" rod laying against the hinge line and the 5/16" rod laying on the trailing edge. You then block sand till the wood is removed down to the rods. You then flip the work piece and replace he 5/16" rod with the 3/16" rod. Now sand down to the rods again. In order to get it to work I mounted everything to a plywood board. This way things don't move around while sanding. It worked rather well. Pictures attached. Shown is a finished elevator and a unsanded elevator half.

Bill Little · « **Reply #16 on:** December 31, 2010, 06:58:21 PM »

Very nice looking work on the fuselage and wings. The rod method does make tapering a lot easier, doesn't it.

How much carving to shape do you plan for the top and bottom of the fuselage?

Also, what "type" of paint/finish are you going to use? I have looked around for "dope" in OD, brown, greens and grays, etc., for camouflage, but don't find too many offerings.

Happy New Year
Big Bear

Leester · « **Reply #17 on:** December 31, 2010, 09:45:37 PM »

Brodak still list's OD,brown,gray and several greens etc. in there dope line.

Bill Little · « **Reply #18 on:** December 31, 2010, 11:39:28 PM »

Quote from: Leester on December 31, 2010, 09:45:37 PM

Brodak still list's OD,brown,gray and several greens etc. in there dope line.

Thanks, Lee. I have gone on Brodak's site and muddled through it a lot. There is just so much there, and it is kinda slow even on cable high speed. I would like to see some paints like the Perfect line that are actual camo colors that you don't have to mix formulas! LOL!! Aero Gloss used to have several, they were even flat, not gloss, and it was easy to do a good camo job then.

Lots of things in the CLPA world you have to spend money on, as you know, and getting larger purchases by the Missus ain't no easy thang! LOL!! (unfortunately, I never had any rich relatives so never had any money left to me, a real problem! LOL!!)

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

John Rist · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2011, 07:38:20 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on December 31, 2010, 06:58:21 PM

Very nice looking work on the fuselage and wings. The rod method does make tapering a lot easier, doesn't it.

How much carving to shape do you plan for the top and bottom of the fuselage?

Also, what "type" of paint/finish are you going to use? I have looked around for "dope" in OD, brown, greens and grays, etc., for camouflage, but don't find too many offerings.

Happy New Year
Big Bear

Bill,

Carving on the the top and bottom of the fuse is up for discussion. This is my first profile scale other than a 1/2a twin. Dose it really matter? What would a scale judge look for? I mean it is is profile and the top and bottom fuselage view is not to scale.

Reguarding color of dope issue: It is sad. I bought the book Soviet Air Force Fighter Colours 1941-1945 by Erik Pilawskii. The color scheam I plan to use is out of this book (photo attached). The book lists the colors as AMT-4/-6/-7, or green, black, and blue. A search for these color numbers turned up very little. One site JPS Modell had some information and a color chart. But all of the paint I found was in very small jars more in the line of paint used for plastic models. In another post I asked the question how do you document color. As we all know true color is a tough item to achieve. It was suggested that if I have a book with color photo that this would suffice as proof of color. I was told to use the photo in my data pack and paint to match.

This leads to how I plan to paint this model. The first good news is that this is going to be an electric powered model. No nitro - so I can use any type of paint I want. It looks like there is rattle can paint form Lowe's that will match the three colors very well, especially when viewed at 15'.

Bill Little · « **Reply #20 on:** January 01, 2011, 09:10:41 AM »

Hi John,

As far as fuselage top and bottom contours, I was asking because I have seen a few different treatments of Profile Scale planes and would like to know if there is an actual preferred method for contest use. It doesn't "seem" to be from my observations.

You bring to attention a very real "positive" for Electric power in Scale!

The type of paint used is not critical. I didn't think of that, when asking the question. All the years of fuel proofing jade the mind!

Using the paints you point out could be a very good option for a gas powered model, too, just a good fuel proofing would have to be used. Thanks for the tip.

Since the early '60s, Scale has been about as popular in my mind as Stunt, but actually building a "contest scale model" has been put aside all those years, and semi scale or scale stunters, depending on the plane, has been the limit for me, although I do like those subjects the best for stunt.

We were having an unofficial stunt event at Huntersville for a time, but that has been dropped, AFAIK.

Looking forward to the completion pf the La-5!

Bill

chuck snyder · « **Reply #21 on:** January 01, 2011, 12:14:15 PM »

John,
I just bought some exterior latex paint from Home Depot for a DH-4 I am building. Color matched to the Solartex covering. They have "sample" sizes at 7.5 ounces for $2.94 plus tax. Can't beat the price. I may get to paint a couple pieces later this weekend and see how well the color match is after it dries, but it looks good in the can. Even has a screw on lid which is nice for our purposes. It looked to me like the color match machine only needed about a square inch of sample.
Chuck

John Rist · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2011, 02:57:24 PM »

Quote from: chuck snyder on January 01, 2011, 12:14:15 PM

John,
I just bought some exterior latex paint from Home Depot for a DH-4 I am building. Color matched to the Solartex covering. They have "sample" sizes at 7.5 ounces for $2.94 plus tax. Can't beat the price. I may get to paint a couple pieces later this weekend and see how well the color match is after it dries, but it looks good in the can. Even has a screw on lid which is nice for our purposes. It looked to me like the color match machine only needed about a square inch of sample.
Chuck

Chuck
I had considered latex - how do you plan to apply it? Brush, Spray .......?

Bill Little · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2011, 03:07:14 PM »

Quote from: chuck snyder on January 01, 2011, 12:14:15 PM

John,
I just bought some exterior latex paint from Home Depot for a DH-4 I am building. Color matched to the Solartex covering. They have "sample" sizes at 7.5 ounces for $2.94 plus tax. Can't beat the price. I may get to paint a couple pieces later this weekend and see how well the color match is after it dries, but it looks good in the can. Even has a screw on lid which is nice for our purposes. It looked to me like the color match machine only needed about a square inch of sample.
Chuck

Hi Chuck,

Is this for electric or "gas"? If gas, what fuel proofing is needed?

BTW: A Thompson Trophy scale plane for one of those hot .40s is coming!

Thanks, guys!
Bill

chuck snyder · « **Reply #24 on:** January 01, 2011, 04:42:22 PM »

John, I have used latex one time before and sprayed it. Dilute with windshield washer fluid. A lot of the R/C scale guys also add a product called Flotrol to get it to flow out better. I won't bother for the small parts I'm doing. On the DH-4 I will be brushing some areas that are too small to bother masking off and spraying a section of cowl, radiator, and a whole bunch of struts.

Bill, I hear that the exterior latex is resistant to gasoline fuels, but not glow fuel. The DH-4 will be gasoline powered and the exhaust should not get on much of the model. The standard practice is to clear coat the model for protection. On a glow powered model I would most likely use Klass Kote epoxy. No decision made yet on the Dh-4. I'm building it on contract for a friend in my R/C club and it is really his choice. It is covered with Solartex. I have used oil-based polyurethane to seal and protect Solartex before on a glow model. Not really necessary, but makes cleanup easier. Water based polyurethane is supposed to be good to protect from gasoline fuels.

It's a big 'un

Bill Little · « **Reply #25 on:** January 01, 2011, 05:44:11 PM »

TOO BIG FOR ME!!!!!!!!!! (and I ain't never been "little" LOL!!)

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for the info.

(how about a scale Hall Racer enlarged to fit the "red head" HOT .40?? LOL!!)

Bill

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #26 on:** January 02, 2011, 09:15:14 PM »

When you use latex, what kind of base do you apply it over - a traditional dope finish? Do you have any trouble with it bonding - can you use masking tape over it? Then it sounds like you finish it off with a flat water base urethane?

I am contemplating a warbird stunter (electric) that would benefit from such a finsih - provided it was also light and durable in normal handling.

chuck snyder · « **Reply #27 on:** January 03, 2011, 11:06:12 AM »

I have personally only used the latex over a glass and epoxy substrate. And with epoxy primer too. Lots of information on the R/C scale sites such as rcscalebuilder.com I don't recall any problem with masking.

Chuck

John Miller · « **Reply #28 on:** January 05, 2011, 09:22:24 AM »

I've used water based acrylics, specifically rustoleum brand, in the small cans, for a finish coat. I applied it with a spray gun over a dope finish base. It was a treat using water based pant, especially when it came to cleaning the gun.

After at least a 24 hour cure, I used masking tape to make the trim, and sprayed it on.

Since I was looking for a glossy finish, I sprayed several coats of clear dope over the top. As far as I know, rustoleum is fuel proof if dealing with colors.

I like the idea of having the paint department match the color chips, and custom mixing the paint.

John Rist · « **Reply #29 on:** January 08, 2011, 11:46:43 AM »

The next step was to mount the elevator haves together with the Brodak offset control horn. This requires drilling a hole at right angle to the centerline of the elevator. The elevator is now tapered making it difficult to place it vertical on the drill press. I solved the problem by using the same round rod that was used to sand the elevator to a taper and a square. Worked well - see photo.

Bill Little · « **Reply #30 on:** January 08, 2011, 06:51:57 PM »

Hi John,

Great solution to the problem. I like your approach to things, a great attention to the little details, and the plane is looking great because of it.

Big Bear

john e. holliday · « **Reply #31 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:23:40 PM »

Always a way to skin the cat.

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #32 on:** January 10, 2011, 05:35:06 PM »

John Rist,
The plastic model paints would be perfect for your electric model. I think Humbrol makes specific Russian colors. Check squadron.com.
Chris...

Bill Little · « **Reply #33 on:** January 10, 2011, 06:23:46 PM »

Quote from: Chris McMillin on January 10, 2011, 05:35:06 PM

John Rist,
The plastic model paints would be perfect for your electric model. I think Humbrol makes specific Russian colors. Check squadron.com.
Chris...

HI Chris,

Humbrol surely did make the Russian colors at one time, but have you checked out the prices on a tiny tin of Humbrol lately? LOL!!!!!!

I used Humbrol almost exclusively back in the early '70s for IPMS work, along with an excellent but short lived line of paints that I cannot remember the name of. Scale Colors or something similar.

John Rist · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2011, 11:02:46 AM »

A little more progress. PS Snow in Alabama is a big deal.

John Miller · « **Reply #35 on:** January 13, 2011, 01:09:45 PM »

Looking really good John. Sorry about the snow, we let some slip by I'm afraid.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #36 on:** January 15, 2011, 10:28:06 AM »

We tried to keep it here in KANSAS, but I guess we can't stop all of it. Amazing in some areas they measure 7 inches and other not even 4 inches. By the way the plane is looking good. Now is this kit as bad as you say it is or is it a builders kit??

John Rist · « **Reply #37 on:** January 15, 2011, 11:36:25 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on January 15, 2011, 10:28:06 AM

By the way the plane is looking good. Now is this kit as bad as you say it is or is it a builders kit??

In general it is a really nice kit. Admittedly I have had to scratch my head a few times to get to the end results. Also I have found minor differences in the plans, book and parts. However nothing worth getting upset over. After all it is a scale ship and therefore somewhat harder to build than say a Ringmaster. As you put it, I would call it a builders kit. Half the fun in scale is putting your personal touch on a project.

John Rist · « **Reply #38 on:** January 20, 2011, 09:06:42 PM »

I have been mulling over what paint scheme to use on my LA-5. The first good photo I come up with is known as the white 60. I went surfing on the web for LA-5 and found red 22. This is a winter camo (white) paint scheme. I like this one because it is two colors however it still has a very complicated decal over the star. I then located red 57. It is a strange mix of winter camo and regular camo. However the photo that inspired this rendition did not have writing over the star. Evidently The original photo was taken right after the plane left the factory. The red lettering was later added by the local air force. I am leaning toward the red 57. It dose have 4 colors but it does not have the lettering.

John Miller · « **Reply #39 on:** January 21, 2011, 08:44:02 AM »

Interesting paint scheme John. It's certainly different, though I like the writing on the side personally, but I'm not trying to apply the finish.

I'm sure you already know this, but Russian WW2 fighters did not have the red stars on the upper surface of the wings, only on the bottom. I constantly see models of these planes sporting the big bright red stars on the upper surfaces.

I was told that they did this so the camo on the upper wings would not be interupted, and make the plane easier to spot from above. They wanted the star on the under surfaces to help their ground forces identify their own planes.

Keep up the great work.

John Rist · « **Reply #40 on:** January 21, 2011, 09:58:30 AM »

Quote from: John Miller on January 21, 2011, 08:44:02 AM

Interesting paint scheme John. It's certainly different, though I like the writing on the side personally, but I'm not trying to apply the finish.

I'm sure you already know this, but Russian WW2 fighters did not have the red stars on the upper surface of the wings, only on the bottom. I constantly see models of these planes sporting the big bright red stars on the upper surfaces.

I was told that they did this so the camo on the upper wings would not be interupted, and make the plane easier to spot from above. They wanted the star on the under surfaces to help their ground forces identify their own planes.

Keep up the great work.

I too perfer the look of the all white winter camo. However if you look at the lettering it is stenciled and changes color as it crosses the red star. I guess I could make a red version and a white version and splice the two together. By the way white is a real problem with decals. If you are using clear decal stock printers don't print white. You almost need a silkscreen process to get white on clear. Photo of other side attached. I guess I could do the lettering but it may be beyond my ability to do a good job. Besides I thought profile was supposed to be easy --

By the way thanks for the info about no red stars on the top of the wing. I was one of many that thought there were red stars on top.

John Rist · « **Reply #41 on:** January 21, 2011, 10:10:14 AM »

Looking at the lettering another approach may be to create the pink on clear decal lettering. Apply it and paint the white where it crosses the star by hand. This is an electric model so fuel proofing is not a problem. I am not sure what type of paint will work on a decal surface but plastic model paint should work. How to sugestions appriciated.

John Miller · « **Reply #42 on:** January 21, 2011, 06:20:54 PM »

Hmmm John,

A good stencil cutter, like Jim Snelson's wife over at CLC, should be able to provide either a paint stencil, or a vinyl decal that would solve the masking problem for the side of the La-5.

John Rist · « **Reply #43 on:** January 22, 2011, 10:49:54 AM »

Quote from: John Miller on January 21, 2011, 06:20:54 PM

Hmmm John,

A good stencil cutter, like Jim Snelson's wife over at CLC, should be able to provide either a paint stencil, or a vinyl decal that would solve the masking problem for the side of the La-5.

Gareat ideal. I have emailed Emily at CLC and she is working with me to see if we can work a solution. It looks like a paint stencil will be best.

By the way I have found another minor discrepancy in the Brodak Kit. The USSR red star decals are outlined in white. The information I have is they should be outlined in black. I can fix but more work.

John Miller · « **Reply #44 on:** January 22, 2011, 03:24:01 PM »

I'm sure Emily will be able to set you up with what you need. I really like the looks of "Red 22" in winter camo.

In case you haven't seen it, here's a pic of John Brodaks Nats winning LA-5 from a few years back.

John Rist · « **Reply #45 on:** January 23, 2011, 02:23:57 PM »

The white camo, red 22 it shall be. I am working on the artwork for the decales. I have one side finished. It only took 6 houres of computer time to extract the writing from the picture.

Thanks for the photo of Brodak's La-5. It does bring up one of the last big problems I will have building this ship - the landing gear. How do you convert a stright peice of wire to look likes Brodak's gear?

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #46 on:** January 23, 2011, 02:48:15 PM »

To convert straight wire into landing gear, place in vice and bend as many times as needed. If that doesn't work, try another peice. Repeat till it works. If it fails to the point that your hobby shop has no more wire, order the landing gear from John!

John Rist · « **Reply #47 on:** January 23, 2011, 03:41:00 PM »

Quote from: Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach on January 23, 2011, 02:48:15 PM

To convert straight wire into landing gear, place in vice and bend as many times as needed. If that doesn't work, try another piece. Repeat till it works. If it fails to the point that your hobby shop has no more wire, order the landing gear from John!

I have John's Fancy piece of bent wire (came in the kit). What I need is the versions that has the the shocks, struts and attached wheel doors. It also looks like John put wheel wells in the bottom of the wing. This feature is not on the plans or in the kit.

I thought profile was supposed to be easy!

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #48 on:** January 23, 2011, 04:17:17 PM »

Hi John. Al Rabe did an amazing pictorial on Stuka Stunt on how to paint wheel well openings on and make them look REAL. Do a search there on him and look for painting and finishing. I believe it was one of his P-51's. And as far as the actual strut goes, you can always ask John! Love your project and have been watching it closely.

chuck snyder · « **Reply #49 on:** January 23, 2011, 04:31:07 PM »

John,
The three-dimensional buildup on the struts it can be done with brass or aluminum tubing. Or Robart sells a plastic piece that fits over the music wire leg.
Chuck