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Author Topic: F4B rules question  (Read 301 times)

Offline Hemi Steve

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F4B rules question
« on: May 13, 2022, 07:23:03 AM »
I brought up this F4B rules question in a thread below and there was no response so I'll bring it up separately.

I am reading the rules (2021) and see on page 8 of Volume 4 of the FAI Sporting code that there is a 2 year rules freeze:

RULE FREEZE FOR THIS VOLUME
With reference to paragraph A.10.3. of the Volume CIAM General Rules:
In all classes, the two-year rule for no changes to model aircraft/space model specifications, manoeuvre
schedules and competition rules will be strictly enforced. For Championship classes, changes may be
proposed in the year of the World Championship of each category.
For official classes without Championship status, the two-year cycle begins in the year that the Plenary
Meeting approved the official status of the class. For official classes, changes may be proposed in the
second year of the two-year cycle.
This means that in Volume F4:
(a) changes can next be made at the 2022 Plenary meeting for application from January 2023;
(b) provisional classes are not subject to this restriction.
The only exceptions allowed to the two-year rule freeze are genuine and urgent safety matters, indispensable
rule clarifications, noise rulings and changes to the provisional classes.

The paragraph says that the 2 year freeze will be strictly enforced. By this paragraph, the 2.4 gHz change cannot be in force for the 2022 Nats. So will the "strictly enforced" 2 year freeze be eliminated?


Also, I see the new weight limit is now 7 kg but I don't see any flying line diameter specs or any reference to AMA line size requirements.

Steve

Online Allen Goff

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Re: F4B rules question
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2022, 01:47:08 PM »
Steve, send me your phone # by PM and I’ll explain it to you. New rules to lengthy to explain it here right now.
Blessings
Allen

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: F4B rules question
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2022, 08:37:24 PM »
Allen,

I think I found the new updated rules but if you could post a link to the new rules that would be very helpful

Fred
Fred Cronenwett
AMA CLSCALE7 - CL Scale
Model Aviation CL Scale columnist

Offline Pete Bauer

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Re: F4B rules question
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2022, 05:01:53 PM »
The present rules for F4 scale are available at https://www.fai.org/sites/default/files/sc4_vol_f4_scale_22.pdf  Note that this is the 2022 Edition, effective 1st January 2022.

At the April 9, 2022 CIAM Plenary F4 meeting, revisions were approved for the F4 Sporting Code.  The control line related changes had been in the works for many years and would have originally been approved in 2020, but COVID pandemic restrictions kept postponing the meetings (the F4 committee was unable to meet in 2020 and 2021).  I want to thank the folks who had been pushing the control line changes for many years - they were finally approved at the plenary meeting and will be posted/effective 1st January 2023.

There were two (2) primary changes for control line:
1) Secondary Control Functions (including but not limited to control of engine/s, landing gear, landing flaps) can be controlled using 2.4GHz radio control equipment with the transmitter under the sole control of the pilot in the center of the circle during the flight.
2) F4B models shall be static judged to the same rules set at F4H static judging (where all static judging is carried out at a distance of 5 meters).

For the 2022 NATS, we will be using the F4 2022 edition with the two additional approved changes listed above.  The 2022 NATS is our first opportunity in many years to fly F4 and we want to use this as preparation for team selection in 2023.

You also stated "I see the new weight limit is now 7 kg but I don't see any flying line diameter specs or any reference to AMA line size requirements."
 - The 7 kg weight limit is not new - I verified this is the same as the 2010 version (sorry I do not have older versions).
 - The F4 rules never included flying line diameter specs, just need to pass the pull test - I verified this is the same as the 2010 version (sorry I do not have older versions).

PM me with your phone number if you would like to discuss further.  We are hoping to welcome many new entrants at the NATS this year with F4B.

Pete   

Offline fred cesquim

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Re: F4B rules question
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2022, 04:17:18 AM »
i am a bit confused, from the 2022 rulebook, to my understanding no regular radio control is allowed, only wire pulse or automatic devices( maybe a timer or something programmable on the model).
am i right or misunderstanding the allowance of radio control (regular system like futaba/jr etc..) on the translation?

6.2.2. Control Mechanism
a) All Control Line Flying Scale Model Aircraft must be permanently attached to two or more nonextensible wires or cables during flight.
b) Primary Control Function:
 The model aircraft’s flight path may only be controlled by manually activated and mechanically
linked flight control elements. This must be by a hand-held control handle manipulated by the
pilot located on the ground at the centre of the model aircraft's flight circle. No automatic
control of the Primary Control Function shall be permitted.
c) Secondary Control Functions:
 These may include (but are not limited to) control of engine/s, landing gear, landing flaps.
Secondary Control Functions may be controlled by the pilot via wires/cables, or may function
completely automatically. The frequency of any electro-magnetic pulses sent through
wires/cables shall not exceed 30 kHz
d) No control of either Primary or Secondary Control Functions other than through wires/cables
shall be permitted.
e) Before each flight the entire mechani

Offline Pete Bauer

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Re: F4B rules question
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2022, 08:15:56 AM »
Fred - you are correct that the 2022 F4 scale rules do not allow for radio control function.  Rules changes were approved in April 2022 (will be posted/effective 1st January 2023) that will allow for "secondary control functions" (including but not limited to control of engine/s, landing gear, landing flaps) to be controlled using 2.4GHz radio control equipment with the transmitter under the sole control of the pilot in the center of the circle during the flight.

For the 2022 NATS, we will be using the F4 2022 edition with the additional approved changes in my posting above.  The 2022 NATS is our first opportunity in many years to fly F4 and we want to use this as preparation for team selection in 2023.

i am a bit confused, from the 2022 rulebook, to my understanding no regular radio control is allowed, only wire pulse or automatic devices( maybe a timer or something programmable on the model).
am i right or misunderstanding the allowance of radio control (regular system like futaba/jr etc..) on the translation?

6.2.2. Control Mechanism
a) All Control Line Flying Scale Model Aircraft must be permanently attached to two or more nonextensible wires or cables during flight.
b) Primary Control Function:
 The model aircraft’s flight path may only be controlled by manually activated and mechanically
linked flight control elements. This must be by a hand-held control handle manipulated by the
pilot located on the ground at the centre of the model aircraft's flight circle. No automatic
control of the Primary Control Function shall be permitted.
c) Secondary Control Functions:
 These may include (but are not limited to) control of engine/s, landing gear, landing flaps.
Secondary Control Functions may be controlled by the pilot via wires/cables, or may function
completely automatically. The frequency of any electro-magnetic pulses sent through
wires/cables shall not exceed 30 kHz
d) No control of either Primary or Secondary Control Functions other than through wires/cables
shall be permitted.
e) Before each flight the entire mechani

Offline fred cesquim

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Re: F4B rules question
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2022, 11:17:20 AM »
Fred - you are correct that the 2022 F4 scale rules do not allow for radio control function.  Rules changes were approved in April 2022 (will be posted/effective 1st January 2023) that will allow for "secondary control functions" (including but not limited to control of engine/s, landing gear, landing flaps) to be controlled using 2.4GHz radio control equipment with the transmitter under the sole control of the pilot in the center of the circle during the flight.

For the 2022 NATS, we will be using the F4 2022 edition with the additional approved changes in my posting above.  The 2022 NATS is our first opportunity in many years to fly F4 and we want to use this as preparation for team selection in 2023.
thanks Pete, will infor brazilians aabout it!
let us know how it goes
regards!


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