Author Topic: Slow Rat and Super Slow Rat (Read 4093 times)

Mark Misegadis · « **on:** September 05, 2012, 10:14:01 AM »

What are the differences? Are these the same?
The NCRLA rules are brief and refer Slow Rat back to Foxberg.

BillLee · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2012, 10:51:25 AM »

Similar, not the same.

Grab a copy of he rules off the AMA and NCLRA websites and compare. The differences are pretty obvious.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2012, 12:12:31 PM »

Hi Bill, Thank you for the response. Lets make this fun.

Please enlighten me with the depth of your racing knowledge by making this a full conversation here for all. I have already poked around the rules. I also read the last post by a guy that asked a question here about engines for slow rat and recieved 2 responses.

Why dont you tell me that Foxberg and "blank" are the same.. or are Not the same.. or are similar but the same if you live accross the equater but only on Sundays. Keep in mind that someone somewhere is going to bring up a search later looking for answers and they are going to find this and go... well that sucks.. 1 answer.. "Go look over there...."

Mark

bill bischoff · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2012, 04:53:03 PM »

The big difference is in the engine. Slow rat is limited to a .25 on suction (used to be .36), but no other engine restrictions. Most people are using modified car engines. SUPER slow rat is a stock, plain bearing .25 engine on suction. The dominant engine seems to be the Brodak 25, but people use the 25 LA, the 25 FP, the Thunder Tiger 25 also. Super slow rat is a "spinoff" of NCLRA Fox racing, by substituting a modern plain bearing 25 for the Fox 35. There are other more subtle differences between slow rat and super slow rat, but the engine is the main one.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2012, 10:32:17 PM »

Hi Bill,

What are the similarities and or differences in Airframes? I have Toms Willks CD and there are 4 plans that may be for these classes. Bobcat, Shoestring, Sizzler II and Midi Slow. Of course there is the Brodak Super Fly Kit out there as well. What airframes are being flown today.

why do I see references to Foxberg and one of these classes as the same? Super Slow Rat?

Thanks for the reply.

Mark

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2012, 10:45:40 PM »

I can only tell you from limited personal experience that the Brodak Super-Fly is a great way to get started in either Fox Race or SSR. A few steps up from that is the "Shy Fox", plans availabe from Model Aviation. It includes some refinements like CF reinforced spars and looks sorta like a Shoestring. OK guys, I know it's been posted before but one picture is worth 1000 words (and Mark did ask).

bill bischoff · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2012, 07:13:48 AM »

Foxberg is yet another different event. The name is derived from Fox-Goldberg. This event mandates a Fox 35 and a Goldberg (or now Brodak) Buster, Shoestring, or Cosmic Wind. NCLRA Fox racing and Super Slow Rat (and AMA Slow Rat) allow any design with 300 sq. inches or more wing area, with a minimum wing thickness of one inch. AMA Slow Rat allows any 25 engine, fuel shutoffs, and quick fills. Super Slow Rat is stock plain bearing 25's, no quick fills, and no shutoffs used in the race (most places will allow a shutoff in the interest of safety). NCLRA Fox race is essentially the same as Super Slow Rat with a different engine. Around here (Texas) we fly Foxberg and Super Slow Rat, but not NCLRA Fox race or AMA Slow Rat. If this is your first racer, build the Super Fly. If you are looking for the hot setup, ours is a 30"x10" wing, 6" from prop to leading edge, 24" from prop to hinge line, 10%-15% CG, Brodak 25.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #7 on:** September 06, 2012, 08:00:46 AM »

All good information. Thank you both for the photos also. In the past I have seen photos here that referred to an event as the Fox Race and there would be a mix of planes in it that were not Goodyear Racers. I've seen other posters ask questions about the airframe "Mix" but this was still confusing. Similarity in the names of classes and I am guessing the combining of entrants due to low turnout at an event have helped lead me to this conclusion.

Are the airframes the same for SSR and SR?

What is this plane in the photo below?

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #8 on:** September 06, 2012, 11:45:56 AM »

I summarized the details.

Foxberg
Airframe – Goldberg/Brodak Goodyear Stunter.
Engine – Stock Fox .35 Stunt

NCLRA Fox
Airframe – Any design with 300 sq. inches or more wing area, with a minimum wing thickness of one inch.
Engine – Stock Fox .35 Stunt

Super Slow Rat
Airframe – Any design with 300 sq. inches or more wing area, with a minimum wing thickness of one inch.
Engine – Plain bearing 25’s
Brodak .25 is engine of choice. Also running are OS FP’s and LA’s
Details – No shut offs or Fast Fills

AMA Slow Rat
Airframe – Any design with 300 sq. inches or more wing area, with a minimum wing thickness of one inch.
Engine –Any 25 engine
Modified car engines are the engine of choice.
Details – Shutoffs, Fast Fills allowed

Texas flys the following events
• Foxberg
• Super Slow Rat

bill bischoff · « **Reply #9 on:** September 06, 2012, 03:36:05 PM »

Super Slow Rat and AMA Slow Rat airframes are basically the same. An AMA Slow Rat may be built stronger to withstand more speed, pull, and engine horsepower, and would have a different tank. It's hard to know what the airplane in the picture is. I don't recognize the design, and with no engine it's impossible to say what event it was built for.

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #10 on:** September 06, 2012, 04:10:06 PM »

Not all Rats looks as nice as Bill's (or mine for that matter). Probably someone's home-brew racer. Is it my imagination or is the horizontal stab and elevator MIA? Here's a take on a Fox-Racer Super-fly.

don Burke · « **Reply #11 on:** September 06, 2012, 05:13:56 PM »

Quote from: Balsa Butcher on September 06, 2012, 04:10:06 PM

Not all Rats looks as nice as Bill's (or mine for that matter). Probably someone's home-brew racer. Is it my imagination or is the horizontal stab and elevator MIA? Here's a take on a Fox-Racer Super-fly.

There is the 22" dimension required prop washer face to elevator hinge line, but no specific requirement for a horizontal.
stabilizer.

Also, there are NO restrictions on venturi through dia in SSR.

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #12 on:** September 06, 2012, 06:00:03 PM »

Uhhh, maybe I'm missing something but I don't see a horiz stab, elavator, or stabilator of any type on this model

(but maybe its just hidden in the grass).

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #13 on:** September 06, 2012, 08:36:47 PM »

Quote from: Balsa Butcher on September 06, 2012, 04:10:06 PM

Not all Rats looks as nice as Bill's (or mine for that matter). Probably someone's home-brew racer. Is it my imagination or is the horizontal stab and elevator MIA? Here's a take on a Fox-Racer Super-fly.

Yeap, Its gone....this plane had been ran hard and put away wet.

Les Akre · « **Reply #14 on:** September 06, 2012, 08:45:28 PM »

Looks like it's broken off.

Les

BillLee · « **Reply #15 on:** September 07, 2012, 04:57:56 AM »

Quote from: Mark Misegadis on September 06, 2012, 11:45:56 AM

I summarized the details.

Foxberg
Airframe – Goldberg/Brodak Goodyear Stunter.
Engine – Stock Fox .35 Stunt

NCLRA Fox
Airframe – Any design with 300 sq. inches or more wing area, with a minimum wing thickness of one inch.
Engine – Stock Fox .35 Stunt

Super Slow Rat
Airframe – Any design with 300 sq. inches or more wing area, with a minimum wing thickness of one inch.
Engine – Plain bearing 25’s
Brodak .25 is engine of choice. Also running are OS FP’s and LA’s
Details – No shut offs or Fast Fills

AMA Slow Rat
Airframe – Any design with 300 sq. inches or more wing area, with a minimum wing thickness of one inch.
Engine –Any 25 engine
Modified car engines are the engine of choice.
Details – Shutoffs, Fast Fills allowed

Texas flys the following events
• Foxberg
• Super Slow Rat

One important aspect that you have not listed is fuel tank capacity. Foxrace and SSR have a maximum capacity of 2 oz. (which is rarely needed since both of the events have a required minimum number of pit stops).

Absence of shut-offs and a minimum number of required pit stops is one of the features of Foxberg/SSR/Foxrace that make them a different kind of event requiring different skills from events where the timing of the pit stops is controlled by the pilot using the shutoff. Management of the fuel capacity is essential to the event, as contrasted to shut-off events where pit stops are controlled by the pilot.

Absence of the shutoff also adds a certain amount of "danger" since the pilot is never quite sure when the engine will stop. (Often in a "Real Bad Place" relative to other models.)

Another difference to note is that Foxrace and SSR use race length of 100 laps while AMA Slow Rat and the various flavors of Foxberg are 70/140.

But of course, you saw all that when you read the rules.

As an aside: the Foxberg (aka Goldberg Race) rules as used in Dallas and Wichita (they are different) are on the NCLRA website in the South Central District page.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2012, 10:28:41 AM »

Thanks Bill! I am going to send you an email. Mark

Paul Smith · « **Reply #17 on:** September 09, 2012, 05:45:01 AM »

Yet anther variation is the "Brodak Foxberg" event.

Shoestring, Buster, Cosmic Wind. Flite Streak, or Ligntning Streak.
Fox 35 Stunt, LA 25, or Brodak 25.
Brodak fuel, NO shutoffs, and 2-ounce plastic tank.

Popular at the annual Fly In.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #18 on:** September 09, 2012, 07:34:14 AM »

Paul need details on that tank.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #19 on:** September 10, 2012, 05:22:06 AM »

It needs to be a Sullivan or DuBro 2 ounce plastic tank. You don't have to use the clunk. Clunks don't work too well on tiny tanks, especially without shutoffs and/or throttles. They go ragged a long time when they run dry. So you have to junk the clunk and make stationary vents.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #20 on:** September 11, 2012, 07:30:10 AM »

Nice addition to the thread. I am sure that class was developed with the sole purpose to make it easy to partticipate. I would imagine most of the engines are Brodak .25s rather than the LAs we see in the photos?

Mark

john e. holliday · « **Reply #21 on:** September 11, 2012, 08:53:19 AM »

If you can get a Brodak .25.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #22 on:** September 11, 2012, 11:17:31 AM »

Okay Doc, So there are backorder issues with these engines then? Mark

Brad LaPointe · « **Reply #23 on:** September 11, 2012, 12:19:55 PM »

The event is a one engine event.L.A. 25 Sport Race . Black Masterairscrew 8x6 props and 10% nitro / 20% castor fuel.Stock intakes and internals . NVA & backplates can be changed.It's a pitting race mostly .

Brad LaPointe

john e. holliday · « **Reply #24 on:** September 12, 2012, 09:52:20 AM »

Just came from the Brodak site and the Brodak .25 is shown out of stock.

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #25 on:** September 12, 2012, 11:09:36 AM »

If you want to go racing, don't let the lack of a Brodak 25 stop you. Most races are won in the pits anyway. LA-25, FP-25, all have the same bolt pattern so a B-25 can be installed when one becomes available.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #26 on:** September 12, 2012, 03:22:46 PM »

WELL WHY DIDNT YOU SAY SO!

NICE - Well that makes it easy!

bill bischoff · « **Reply #27 on:** September 12, 2012, 03:28:07 PM »

The only minor snag is that the Brodak needs a cutout for the backplate mounting lug, like the Fox 35. The Brodak, like the Fox, has a 3 bolt backplate.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #28 on:** September 12, 2012, 04:14:56 PM »

In my experiance at The Brodak, all three engines have been successful. I won with both the Fox and LA25. I like the LA better. I tried a Brodak 25 and ended up selling it. Some have made the Brodak 25 win, but not me. If you want to compete, just buy an LA25.

don Burke · « **Reply #29 on:** September 12, 2012, 07:52:07 PM »

The B25 likes the biggest venturi you can fit.