Author Topic: Possible 100 mile LA25 Sport Race at the 2015 Brodak Fly In. (Read 6139 times)

Paul Smith · « **on:** November 18, 2014, 08:40:07 PM »

We have requested permission to have a Toronto-style 100-mile (1400 laps on 60' lines) LA25 Sport Race at the next Brodak Fly In. The rules are the same as those used in Toronto for the past eight years. It's basically a 300 square inch sport racer like the Brodak Hot Shot with a stock LA25, fuel shutoffs, and standard 10% fuel. The fast teams do 1:30 and the slower ones do 1:50. We propose to fly Thursday afternoon and limit entries to six teams.

bob whitney · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2014, 09:34:52 PM »

what about the tank size or # of pits

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2014, 10:24:56 PM »

Total newbie question here. When you say fast teams are doing 1:30 and the slower ones are doing 1:50 how many laps/what distance is that?

Thank you,
Jim

BillLee · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2014, 05:35:45 AM »

Quote from: Jim Roselle on November 18, 2014, 10:24:56 PM

Total newbie question here. When you say fast teams are doing 1:30 and the slower ones are doing 1:50 how many laps/what distance is that?

Thank you,
Jim

I think that's why it's called a "100 mile .. Race".

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2014, 05:40:17 AM »

Ahh... So that's an hour and thirty minutes, not a minute and thirty seconds.

Duh....

James_Mynes · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2014, 06:19:06 AM »

Yes, an hour and a half of round and round and round and round and.... you get the idea.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2014, 06:45:08 AM »

In general they require 20 pit stops. A couple times they did 25 and 30 pit stops. Then 20 pit stops became the standard. With 25 & 30 pits there were several crashed to landing/takeoff issues. In a 3-up one hundred mile race with 30 pit stops there are total of 183 takeoff and landing chances to screw up. And things DID happen. It smoothed out with 20 pits.

Counting the original tank of fuel you need to make 67 laps per tank. You can carry all the fuel you want, but 2 to 2.5 ounces works. 2.5 ounces gives you enough extra laps to come in for adjustment and still just do 20 pits.

One hundred miles in 100 minutes (an hour & 40) is 60 MPH average. The winner generally beats that. 90 minutes is 67 MPH. That's a good score with airspeeds a little below 80.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2014, 09:14:38 AM »

The last time I participated in a long distance race was at Pawnee Rock KANSAS many years ago. We were flying the Shoestrings racers use according to Wichita rules of the day. Fox .35 Stunt, one ounce tank and no fuel shut off. There was only three teams. Rusty Brown was still with us then. 100 miles was done in very short time. I think JJ and I won with a time under 2 hours. The other two teams still many laps to go. The big secret to running a Fox was not run it too hard or have a bottle of water to spray it with during pit stops. It was fun and I too have thought of having a meet for such a thing again.

But, why a limit of only 6 teams?

don Burke · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2014, 10:40:06 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on November 19, 2014, 09:14:38 AM

The last time I participated in a long distance race was at Pawnee Rock KANSAS many years ago. We were flying the Shoestrings racers use according to Wichita rules of the day. Fox .35 Stunt, one ounce tank and no fuel shut off. There was only three teams. Rusty Brown was still with us then. 100 miles was done in very short time. I think JJ and I won with a time under 2 hours. The other two teams still many laps to go. The big secret to running a Fox was not run it too hard or have a bottle of water to spray it with during pit stops. It was fun and I too have thought of having a meet for such a thing again.

But, why a limit of only 6 teams?

Probably 'cause it would be hard to find 6 PILOTS with the physical stamina to last that long!!! A few years back Circle Burners did a 500 lap with rat racers. I think the winner was the only one standing!!!!

Paul Smith · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2014, 12:57:26 PM »

It's a matter of hogging the one and only paved circle. It takes about two hours to run a race. So we could run two races between 11:00 AM and 3:00 PM on Thursday. That's when they static-judge scale & CLPA so they won't be needing the circle. Junkyard wars building starts at 4:00 PM.

Historically, the event tops out at six teams in Toronto, maybe only four. There have been recent examples of people pitting and/or flying 200 miles in one contest.

There's a sort of "iron man" theory of doing the whole 100 miles with one pilot and one mechanic. But that's not a rule. You could form a bigger team and have relief.

The regular Brodak Foxberg planes are legal for this event, but they would be a something of a disadvantage with larger wings and no shutoffs.

bob whitney · « **Reply #10 on:** November 24, 2014, 11:11:26 AM »

the Rad Racers team would like to sign up for the 100 mile race

bob whitney · « **Reply #11 on:** November 24, 2014, 08:52:22 PM »

Quote from: Paul Smith on November 18, 2014, 08:40:07 PM

We have requested permission to have a Toronto-style 100-mile (1400 laps on 60' lines) LA25 Sport Race at the next Brodak Fly In. The rules are the same as those used in Toronto for the past eight years. It's basically a 300 square inch sport racer like the Brodak Hot Shot with a stock LA25, fuel shutoffs, and standard 10% fuel. The fast teams do 1:30 and the slower ones do 1:50. We propose to fly Thursday afternoon and limit entries to six teams.

how about a set of rules as to the airplane , what can u do and what cant u do, wing size ,fuse length # of wheels dose tank need to be ahead of the wing. can tank be inboard of the fuse . inquiring minds want to know

Motorman · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2014, 09:26:59 AM »

I would never prepare a model and make that long drive to get snubbed as team #7. When and where does registration open? First 6 guys in line, will there be pushing and shoving or is it pre entry by mail so someone can pick and choose who's in the race. If you're worried about time, base the mileage on number of entries.

MM

john e. holliday · « **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2014, 10:05:08 AM »

I would think about entering if I could get my pilot to go. But as stated if we were number 7 why make the trip.

Brad LaPointe · « **Reply #14 on:** November 27, 2014, 10:51:15 AM »

Full Rules are at www.balsabeavers.com . Basically 300 sq. in. wing like a Foxberg or SSR , 60' x .015 lines , LA .25 stock except backplate and NVA can be changed . Stock 8x6 black Masterairscrew props only. Tank size is up to you , shutoffs are recommended .

I think a lot of people will have airframes that will work already . The Super Fly is popular up here .

Pilots need to make a "pit stop" before the flight , double knot those shoe laces , put on the sun block , hydrate before and pack bandages for the blisters after. Beer is recommended for electrolyte replenishment .

I'm thinking Brodak's will be a lot hotter than Toronto is at the end of September . T-shirts and shorts are more fun than parkas and mitts !

Brad

Paul Smith · « **Reply #15 on:** November 27, 2014, 11:37:16 AM »

The Toronto/Dresden/Detroit group will be running the event. We welcome new interest. We will sacrifice one of our own teams if the six-team limit is pressed.

We wecome Bob Whitney as our first entry, under the hope that the powers that be accept the event.

Dennis Saydak · « **Reply #16 on:** December 07, 2014, 03:03:20 PM »

Back in the good old days I was part of a team who flew a 1400 lap race. I don't remember how long it took us to complete the race but we had lots of fun. I still have the plan for the Rat we designed.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2015, 03:35:37 PM »

We've submitted our request to the management staff of The Brodak. We hope a decision is forthcoming. If the "YES" comes in time I will prepare a CLW announcement.

Motorman · « **Reply #18 on:** January 02, 2015, 05:12:37 PM »

I was reading the rules on your site and would like a clarification on something.

6.1 The start of a race shall begin with a two minute warm up period. During this
period, the engine can be started and run right up to the commencement of the race. (The
engines need not be shut off prior to the start of the race). The starting signal shall be by
flag, whistle or other highly audible or visual means. Once the signal to start has been given,
the models can be released by the mechanics.

The way this is written it seems to mean you can start the engine before hand and release it at the go signal?

Another rule states you must use the stock LA25 engine and venturi but it doesn't give a spec. Since these thing vary would it be possible for you to come up with a number?

And one more, the rules on the site are for a 140 lap race with unlimited tank size is that gonna hold for the 100 mile race also?

MM

Jim Carter · « **Reply #19 on:** January 02, 2015, 05:48:10 PM »

Quote from: Paul Smith on November 18, 2014, 08:40:07 PM

We have requested permission to have a Toronto-style 100-mile (1400 laps on 60' lines) LA25 Sport Race at the next Brodak Fly In. The rules are the same as those used in Toronto for the past eight years. It's basically a 300 square inch sport racer like the Brodak Hot Shot with a stock LA25, fuel shutoffs, and standard 10% fuel. The fast teams do 1:30 and the slower ones do 1:50. We propose to fly Thursday afternoon and limit entries to six teams.

Hi Brad! I noticed one of the fellows mention using the Brodak SuperFly. Would this be acceptable? I've got a couple of them that I'd love to find a use for since they were excluded from the FoxBerg events unless I was mistaken. Also, would the use of 80# Spectra line be permitted? I know the fellows in St Louis will not permit them at their Fox racing event. Thanks for your patience.

Brad LaPointe · « **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2015, 06:12:45 AM »

OK , a couple of things to clear up .

Running starts are allowed .You have 20 more pits to screw things up take the freebie ! Super Fly's are allowed and work well . Only .015 x 60' (+/- 6") seven strand stainless lines are allowed .

Brad LaPointe

Paul Smith · « **Reply #21 on:** January 03, 2015, 10:45:43 AM »

Well said. The mass start is fun and it increases the chance of a good needle setting on the down stroke.

In combat & racing we have enough variables without messing with funny lines.

They've been running 100 milers in Toronto for over 50 years with the same plaque. If you can read the 40 rat times you'll see that LA 25's are better. The winning time of 98:41, or one hour and 38 minutes would be lucky to take 3rd place today.

I hope the powers that be in Carmichaels let this happen.

Brad LaPointe · « **Reply #22 on:** January 03, 2015, 10:52:09 AM »

For intake size it's 6mm or .236" . If you have a different size it might be from another OS engine . This is the size stated by OS for the LA .25 and what we have used in the past .Keeps speed around 80 mph.

You can run a large tank if you want for the 100 miler . 20 pit stops are required and fuel added each time . A bit larger tank allows you to put in some quality laps if the other two teams are having over length pits or if you need to stretch out a few extra laps at the end .

Too large is a weight penalty and if the shut off quits and you have a lean run it can get real ugly . Been there .

Brad

Motorman · « **Reply #23 on:** January 03, 2015, 02:00:56 PM »

Ok so you need to get 67 laps for 20 pits in a 1400 lap race, did I figure that right? What is that a 3oz tank? I guess it doesn't matter with a shut off, just tank it for 80 laps.

MM

Paul Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** January 03, 2015, 05:07:44 PM »

In my experience, 2 ounces is enough to cover the 67 laps with some reserve for some adjustment stops. I could go over 100 laps if I needed to. I hope this is a GO thing.

Homemade shutoff with 300 miles on it.

Author Topic: Possible 100 mile LA25 Sport Race at the 2015 Brodak Fly In. (Read 6139 times)

Jim Roselle

Jim Roselle

James_Mynes