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Author Topic: New Brodak Fuel  (Read 1797 times)

Offline Bob Zambelli

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New Brodak Fuel
« on: August 28, 2006, 09:10:40 AM »
I had the opportunity to try some new Brodak fuel this past weekend. I headed out to fly with the Skylarks of Sharon and upon leaving, I noticed my supply of Powermaster 10/22 was low. :-[
At the hobby shop (Brodak’s), I saw some new fuel, 10% nitro, 23% 50/50 lube so I decided to give it a try. Since I had three airplanes with totally different powerplants to try, I figured it would be a good basic indicator. ???

Argus/SAITO .30. Weather one day warm and pleasant, the next day very hot and humid. Seemed to run as well or a bit better than before. I did have it start backwards a few times but that was probably my fault. Exhaust residue was a bit cleaner. It ran the same BOTH days without changing the needle setting. j1

Cardinal ARF/OS non-Surpass .40. Weather very hot and humid. Not so good for this powerplant. The engine likes a lot of nitro (I normally run 20/20) and the power was noticeably down. :(

Stinger/Fox .35. Same hot and humid weather. WOW!! The runs were considerably better. It seemed to run more uniformly and the power definitely felt better. After a really “spirited” flight, the engine just seemed warm and had that great snappy feel when flipped. j1
I should mention that this Fox is completely stock right down to the needle valve – never been disassembled. It runs as well or better than any modified Fox I’ve ever seen. I adjusted the needle back in May and have not touched it since. A well know Fox owner at Brodak’s said it was one of the absolute best running Foxes he had ever heard. ;D

If this past weekend is any indication of the potential y1, I will highly recommend the Brodak fuel for Fox .35s and modern 4-strokes. I will, of course, continue to test it in other engines.

Bob Z.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 06:42:08 PM »
Thanks, Bob.  Can we find out what "blends" it is offered in?

Bill <><
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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2006, 07:31:27 AM »
Hi, Bill - I would suggest calling the shop or sending an e-mail to Brodak.

I'm pretty sure there was a variety of blends.

Bob Z.

Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2006, 04:00:25 PM »
How much testing of this fuel has been done on Fox 35 to confirm that 22% lube is sufficent? Until there is lots of good experiance to prove Fox is not damaged by 22% oil I will stay with tried & proven Powermaster 10-29% pure castor.
 
Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2006, 05:53:40 AM »
Lyle - I posted this somewhere else, a while back. It is my own experience but it convinced me of something I've always suspected - that 29% oil is just a waste.
I'm convinced that 22% will do no harm (I run it in virtually every engine I own) but there is an advantage to 29% - read on:

“For anyone curious about lubrication of a Fox .35, here’s an experiment that I did a few years back.
 
I had two identical Fox .35s, the first version with the fore-and-aft muffler lugs on the case. One was brand new in the box, the other had a lot of time on it. The head was totally encrusted with burned castor to where the screws were nearly covered. The piston was black. Compression was strong and there was virtually no slop in the front bushing. Although I bought it as such, I assumed that it had lived on a high castor diet. The only thing I did to it was to remove the baked on castor using Dave Gierke’s “Demon Clean”. A fine product.
 
I broke in the new engine in on Powermaster 5% nitro, 22%, 50/50 oil for approximately one hour. I then put both engines on a variety of different aircraft, switching them around from time to time. Both profile and inverted mounting. I tried a tongue muffler as well as a Fox muffler with the exhaust nipple cut off to enlarge the hole.
 
I ran both engines on the same Powermaster but with 10% nitro. I used the engines for two seasons accumulating hundreds of flights on each.
 
The piston of the used engine lightened up a bit but the compression NEVER changed – it always had a good “snap”. The new engine ran perfectly the entire time. Neither engine showed any adverse wear in the piston/cylinder fit or the front bushing. The piston of the new engine still looked new.
 
My only complaint on both was that they did not exhibit the classic Fox 2-4 break. On a whim, I ran some 5% nitro, 29% straight castor in the newer engine, which was then mounted in a Nobler. Instant classic 2-4 break – exactly as I remember.  j1
Switching back to Powermaster, the break went away.   :-[
 
Anyone else have a similar experience? By the way, I still have both engines and they have excellent compression.  I would not hesitate to put either in a classic or old-time plane.
 
Bob Z.”
 


Offline Kreth

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2006, 07:45:00 AM »
I'm sure this fuel will be good to use in modern engines with the latest in metallurgy, but I'll just stick with 28 to 29% lubricant with the majority of that castor in my Fox 35s.  I've been using that with great success for 50 years as have 100s of others and I wouldn't jump to less lubricant just because some manufacturer made it.

 :) :)
Kreth McKee AMA 22004

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2006, 09:16:05 AM »
Kreth - you misunderstand. I am not using it because a particular manufacturer makes it. That has NOTHING to do with it. The manufacturers that I buy from also make 29% castor - I just stated that, in my opinion, it's a waste.

I use a particuler product because I'm confident that it works - simple as that.

Regarding  metallurgy and materials, I also use the same mixture in my 50s engines like my Atwood Triumph and K&B Glow-Torp .29 -  there has never been problem.
 
I plan to break in my new McCoy RR.29 and Dooling .29 with the same fuel and I'm 100% confident that it will not harm them.

The important thing is that we use what we feel best suits our needs.

Bob Z.




Offline Kreth

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2006, 11:22:03 AM »
No offense meant, but again I as well as 100s of other people have a different opinion of what is needed in the way of lubricant for Fox 35s and I will stick with it.  This is because of ruining Fox 35s running too little lubricant - and - no they were not run too lean.

I don't think I am the only one that is not going to jump on the bandwagon with you with OUR engines.

I don't remember saying anything about a particular manufacturer

 :) :D
Kreth McKee AMA 22004

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2006, 11:41:37 AM »
Hi - non taken.

I really believe the the important thing is that we use whatever works best for our particular needs.

It's interesting how things can work well in particular engines and fail in others.

At Muncie in 1997, I was having trouble with an OS Max-S.35, running 5/25 straight castor.
A friend recommended castor/synthetic blend. I tried it and the engine seized!
Took it home, freed it up and ran the straight castor for another two years.
My friend runs the same engine on the blend.
Go figure.

Bob Z.

Online Arlan McKee

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2006, 12:34:56 PM »
The fact that the break went away should be an indication that the engine is running hotter. What good is a Fox .35 that doesn't break?

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2006, 01:49:44 PM »
"The fact that the break went away should be an indication that the engine is running hotter."
I must say that I'm puzzled on that one - please explain the rationale.

"What good is a Fox .35 that doesn't break?"
That statement puzzles me even more. 
Ever think that a 2-4 break could be useless in some aircraft?
My Stinger for example.

Bob Z.

Offline Louis Rankin

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2006, 06:49:08 PM »
Does Brodak plan on doing any custom mixing?
Louis Rankin
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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2006, 07:53:35 PM »
"The fact that the break went away should be an indication that the engine is running hotter."
I must say that I'm puzzled on that one - please explain the rationale.

"What good is a Fox .35 that doesn't break?"
That statement puzzles me even more. 
Ever think that a 2-4 break could be useless in some aircraft?
My Stinger for example.

Bob Z.
The fact that you were running 22% but found 23% to run better should be an indication to you that you are not running enough oil in your fuel. My guess is that you would find 24% to run a little better than 23% and so on as far as the Fox is concerned. The high castor content helps dissipate heat. Excess heat will lean the engine and cause runaways.
There are Fox .35's that have been run on high castor fuel for 30 years and more. Some people run a few gallons through an engine and declare that the fuel causes no wear and that 29% oil must be a waste. Duke Fox and the hundreds of others after him that have up to 50 years of proof in the form of engines that have run literally drums of fuel through them must be wrong. I have a Fox .35 that has been running with the original piston & sleeve since 1978. I'm sure that some on this site have more years on their Foxes than that. When someone racks up 28 years or more on 22% 1/2 castor, let us know.   
Different strokes for different folks, but I would think that any aircraft that didn't have a use for the 2-4 break wouldn't have a use for the Fox .35 . I know that there are plenty of folks running them in their little racers on low oil content fuel, but they won't be running those for years and years.

Offline Louis Rankin

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2006, 07:22:19 AM »
Come on guys, lets get back to the Brodak fuel product review.  I would like to know if Brodak will do some custom mixing.
Louis Rankin
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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2006, 08:42:58 AM »
Hi, Lou - I will be speaking to John today. I will ask him about custom blending.

For the record, what blend did you have in mind?

I would guess that if the quantities justify, he could do it.

Bob Z.

Offline Louis Rankin

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2006, 10:48:21 AM »
Currently I mix my own in the following mixes.

10/20 with the lube mix containing 75% Klotz and 25% Castor.

10/22 with the lube mix containing 75% Klotz and 25% Castor.
Louis Rankin
Somerville Tennessee
AMA 10859

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2006, 12:52:12 PM »
Hi, Lou - I'll definitley ask John for you.

I called him but he's helping Buzz's mom move today.

Bob Z.

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: New Brodak Fuel
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 10:35:32 AM »
I had the opportunity to run more of the above mentioned Brodak fuel this past weekend and I'm more pleased than ever.  j1 j1

It was cold and damp when I flew the Stinger with the Fox .35.
It did not miss a beat the entire flight while running quite fast - I run my Foxes in a fast two cylce only.

Although it is profile mounted, there was no sign of the alleged Fox burp, no matter what maneuver or how tight I pulled it.

A few onlookers were more than a bit surprised when I told them that no only was the engine completely stock but it has never been apart, not even the backplate.

Bob Z.


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