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Author Topic: F 82-15 Twin Mustang  (Read 2506 times)

Offline pat king

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F 82-15 Twin Mustang
« on: February 12, 2013, 09:35:23 AM »
For those who do not have room for or do not want a 64" airplane, a 1" to the foot profile scale F82 Twin Mustang. The airplane is for twin .10 to .15 engines. The airplane has a 51 3/4" wing span, 420 square inches. It is 36 3/4" long from the tip of the spinners to the end of the rudders. It is 14 1/4" tall from the bottom of the wheels to the top of the vertical stabilizer. The only non scale parts of this airplane are the airfoil and the flap on the trailing edge of the wing center section. The wing is symmetrical airfoil. The kit is laser cut, it does not include control system parts. Full scale (kit scale) panel line drawings are available for profile scale competition. The kits will be $155.00
Pat King
Monee, IL

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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: F 82-15 Twin Mustang
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 05:57:24 PM »
 The Twin Mustang is really cool Pat. To my eye it looks to have a very accurate profile outline, very nice job. Without referencing I'm not sure about the wingtip outline though, they look a little weird to me but maybe they are correct. Easy enough for the builder to change though if desired.

 Now, here's my request. Do a 56" span B-25 Mitchell for two .25's with the same approach you've given the Twin Mustang here and you can put me on the list for one. By "same approach" I mean a true scale outline, flaps, and a symmetrical airfoil. Oh, and it's gotta have the gull wing too. ;D

 If you'll consider tackling this I've got some other "sneaky" ideas for it as well... y1  
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: F 82-15 Twin Mustang
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 06:32:14 AM »
The Twin Mustang is really cool Pat. To my eye it looks to have a very accurate profile outline, very nice job. Without referencing I'm not sure about the wingtip outline though, they look a little weird to me but maybe they are correct. Easy enough for the builder to change though if desired.

 Now, here's my request. Do a 56" span B-25 Mitchell for two .25's with the same approach you've given the Twin Mustang here and you can put me on the list for one. By "same approach" I mean a true scale outline, flaps, and a symmetrical airfoil. Oh, and it's gotta have the gull wing too. ;D

 If you'll consider tackling this I've got some other "sneaky" ideas for it as well... y1  

Wayne, Wouldn't that be a redundant design as Brodak has introduced a B-25 at 55 in W/S with 471 Sq in and for 2/25 and has the gull. Of course it is scale and not a stunt model.
dennis

Offline pat king

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Re: F 82-15 Twin Mustang
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 12:34:57 PM »
Wayne,
The shape of the kit is from a 5 view I got off the internet. If you think the F 82 is two Mustangs mated, you are mistaken. Less than half the parts from the Mustang are used on the F 82.
If I do another large profile scale twin I think I would do the A 26 in 20-35 size.I looked at the 1/2A a 26, it is 1/2" = 1'-0", if I double the sise to 1" = 1'-0" the airplane would have a 68.4" wingspan and 552 square inches of wing area. It would be a twin .10 to .15 size airplane. I will not design a kit of an airplane that someone is already selling the same airplane in the same size. With their B 25 Brodak is calling for twin .25 engines on a 471 square inch airplane. I think an airplane for twin .25 engines should be in the 650 to 750 square inch size.

Thanks, Pat
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 02:12:00 PM by pat king »
Pat King
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: F 82-15 Twin Mustang
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 10:11:01 PM »
 Yes, the new Brodak B-25 is a great new offering and one that I've been watching for some time. Designed by Pete Klepsic it's a very nice design but has an asymmetrical airfoil and is primarily intended as a profile scale model. I wouldn't really consider it in the same "market" as a stunt design would be. I'm also familiar with the Twin Mustang being very different from "two" Mustangs stuck together. Coincidentally, I've actually got some original F-82 drawings that I did myself a few years ago that are nearly identical to what Pat is showing here.

With the following, I'm not trying to describe a hard-core competition model, just a nice scale appearing plane with good stunt capability.

 I know much of this is probably already realized, but I'm just going to "think out loud" for a bit here if I may. With Pat's F-82, simply giving it the symmetrical airfoil automatically opens up many more flying options. The design has an excellent scale appearance, but as a bonus it would also have some decent stunt potential as Pat's designed it here. The incorporated dihedral will also help the leadout/vertical CG relationship, aiding even more to the potential stuntability. I am very confident that this F-82 design, built at a decent weight and with good power, would suprise many fliers with it's stunt capabilities. I'd suggest a little more wing area, but we'll get to that. ;D  

 Below is another slightly different approach to design, but one that definitely works. The approach is also nothing really new, but is proven.

 I'll roughly describe my hypothetical B-25 design here. This is how I designed and built my 64" PBY Catalina stunt model...
 
 Depending on the chosen full scale subject there will always be slightly different ways to modify and end up with the desired result. While designing think scale, but pay very close attention to the "stunt devil" sitting on your shoulder and let him influence things all the way through. VD~
  
 Starting with a "clean sheet" stick diligently with true to scale outlines but play with size relationships between various components. First, pick a desired wingspan, say 56", and print off an enlarged full size scale three-view at that dimension. Be sure to start with a detailed, quality three-view, like on the order of a Paul Matt drawing or similar. Save and set aside the fuselage outline as is. Then, in the case of the B-25, "cheat" or add to the overall wing chord slightly, including the flaps. This is to sneak in some additional wing area but you want to stop before taking away noticably from the scale outline or appearance. Do the same with the stab/elevator and also add in a little more span, essentially you're just enlarging the entire stab/elevator assembly.
 
 Now, take a clean sheet of paper, draw a long horizontal line and mark in the desired moments using the "new" wing/flap/stab/elevator chord dimensions. Take your saved scale fuse outline and lay over it. You will likely need to adjust the fuselage length to fit things where you want them, just make adjustments for the best overall scale appearance/stunt compromise.
 At this point thrust lines and wing/stab height relationships can also be subtley adjusted without detracting from the scale appearance. You may find that you'll want to "section" some height out of the fuselage outline, or not. Go for it if necessary, but keep the top and bottom outlines true to scale. Spend good time getting the fuse proportions just right in comparison to the flying surfaces to maintain the overall scale look of the model. What you should essentially end up with is a scale fuselage with proportionally larger flying surfaces, all with scale outlines.

 This isn't a complete description of the process, but just my own general approach and thought process. It is very possible to design a model that appears very scale but will also be a suprisingly good stunt model. The best of both worlds in my opinion. ;D

(I apologize for getting a little long here Pat. I'm not intending to take away from your F-82, just adding some "food for thought") H^^
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline pat king

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Re: F 82-15 Twin Mustang
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 12:15:22 PM »
Wayne,
My Profile Scale airplanes are scale dimensions, the wings or tailfeathers have not been enlarged. For improved flight characteristics I have gone to symmetrical airfoils.I believe they will be good sport stunt airplanes. The scale wing and empennage areas will not be detrimental to sport flying. They are not Precision Aerobatic airplanes.
Having judged scale for 3 years, I think the problem with poor flight characteristics on too many scale airplanes is that they are heavy bricks with engines that do not appear that they have the power to pull a Fat Girl off a toilet. The heavy underpowered airplanes struggle in the air. There is no way I would attempt an inside loop, an outside loop, or wingover with most of those airplanes. Some of the full scale airplanes wouldn't do those maneuvers, but I haven't seen many of the scale airplanes that are of aerobatic aircraft that I would try those with. Thanks for the input.

Pat 
Pat King
Monee, IL

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