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Author Topic: twister monokote job  (Read 22855 times)

Online Dane Martin

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twister monokote job
« on: May 06, 2015, 06:17:53 PM »
I posted how i koted my S1 ringmaster and got positive feedback, so here's how I'm doing my twister. It's starting of with Monokote True red. It looked like the box art to me. I koted the flats of the tips and then wrapped the wings. I could then just trace the edge with an xacto and boom, seamless tips. The pics are with only the bottom done, so there may be the appearance of wrinkles, but that goes away when the top is on and tightened

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2015, 07:13:28 PM »
Dane,

Looks almost like paint.  H^^

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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2015, 07:33:31 PM »
Thanks Charles. One bad thing about pictures in this small size is that it doesn't really show the smoothness, i think. But for Monokote, i feel it's pretty nicely done! ;D

Here's the wing done, I'll do the fuse next. My goal is to recreate the box art, using only Monokote. I included a pic of the box in case anyone forgot this beautiful models humble beginnings... Lol

Offline Roger Vizioli

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2015, 07:56:58 PM »
Dane,
Looks good!
I have an "old", circa 1999 Twister, modified to proportional SV11 #'s.
Been hanging on the wall a long time, will clean it up and send pic.
Powered by a Randy Smith modified HP40.

Later,
Roger
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2015, 09:58:22 PM »
Looking good.  Takes patience to do Monokote properly.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2015, 07:44:33 PM »
Thanks guys. Roger, I'd love to see it!
I just threw everything in place to half @$$ check cg. It's pretty darn close. Close enough to where i think with the prop, spinner and tank up front, I'll be good. I wanted to check this before i covered the fuse in case i needed to cut any nose off.

Also Roger, when i opened this kit, the plans said 1975. So i don't know what year this kit is. I got it from bad bill here on SH.

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2015, 08:44:10 PM »
I learned something on those wingtip pictures. 

Looking forward to the finished deal, and the process.

Phil


Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 11:06:59 PM »
 Dane
Great looking plane there guy.

Here are a couple of pics of my Brodak Smoothie Kit I finished up at the begining of the month.
All done in Tower Kote Film. (I do not paint anymore. Me and paint do not get along these days.)

Carl
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2015, 07:33:38 PM »
Well, it's hard to find time to make time to finish this stuff. Working on the fuse. The canopy is going to be white. I placed the tape a 1/4" up from where the white will start. This will make a nice edge to cut off the excess monokote. If you have a crooked line under a straight line, it's really bad... Lol
One trick I like on doing profile fuses, is to hold down the monokote with a piece of tape so I can pull with one hand and iron with the other.
I know it's still in the ugly phase, but it gets better!

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2015, 08:32:35 PM »

Quote
I know it's still in the ugly phase, but it gets better!

"Great" Dane,

Nothing ugly about what you are doing. I wish I had those iron on covering skills.

This is how we learn, when the model is in the building stage. Nothing really to gain when the curtain is opened up on a finished model. Just something to look at.

Ya gotta love a modeler's build Thread.

Really good work! H^^




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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2015, 10:19:48 PM »
Nothing ugly about what you are doing. I wish I had those iron on covering skills.

I've seen your work... I don't know that I believe that statement! Lol
I like the iron on. Quick and easy. Plus, I live in an apartment with the misses and our two kids under 4. Paint is just not an option for me.

Here's the back half of the fuse did. The doublers will also be red. Part of the challenge of iron on, is the material is square, and often not the exact dimensions you want. I try to make strategic splices to eliminate waste. It's just expensive!
 pic 3 shows how I roll over the spine, and 4 shows the seem less splice. The trick is
A: STRAIGHT CUTS! lol
B: terminate the monokote at a point just after the beginning of the radius, but not at the center. That's a really obvious seem.
When doing the second layer, or the over lap, use a little lower heat or just work faster. Overlapping is usually where people get bubbles. Do the heat quick, but lay it over slowly, so only a very small strip is adhered at a time.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 08:21:32 AM by Dane Martin »

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2015, 08:23:12 AM »
"Great" Dane,

Hey! You got a 4 stroke on that! Looks like it's NIB?

Believe me, I cannot iron on material.

Applying wet vinyl graphics is nothing like applying iron on material with a heat iron.

I did R/C and every model had ailerons and that area around the stab.  HB~>

I've seen guys do the aileron insides plus the side edges with tiny pieces before attaching the ailerons, I didn't have the patients for that and I generally melted the material around the stab.

What I did with iron on was just average to say the least, so I painted my models. I had access to many Auto Body shops and took advantage of it.

The wife and I are now in a Condo and I'm rethinking everything, including the use of iron on material.

You take good photos.

Hey! Free graphics for your Twister!

PM me and let me know what you need.

CB
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Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2015, 11:04:00 PM »
Dane

It is looking very very good there guy.

A little tip on the kote ends (the pointy ones that is)

Take some CLEAR finger nail polish (GLOSS) and a round type tooth pick and dip the toothpick
into the clear and then carefully dab the seam area end and it will lay down nice and flat
and be almost invisible to the eye. This prevents lifting of the film over time. It also prevents any fuel/oil from getting under
the end tips of the covering.

Carl
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2015, 09:03:47 AM »
Thanks Carl. I really like your smoothie!

Charles, yes that's a new OS30fs! Gonna be sweet. Although, I believe someone said Keith Sandburg has that engine on a SIG PF. That was my nail in the coffin so to speak to use the 30 on this plane. So basically I stole his idea... Lol. Perhaps one day I'll meet him and thank him!

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2015, 04:46:39 PM »
I'm gonna continue posting my version of this how to. Hopefully some of this is helpful. I find that's it helps keep me motivated and my mind off of stuff to just build this thing.
A few friends asked how I do monokote around the nose and engine mounts without making cuts. This gives a smooth look. I'll split this up cuz it's a lot of pics.

So the start was finishing the splice and covering the doublers. I left about an inch over hang to have something to grab. Adhere the entire doubler area and push the iron over to get the rounded area to stick ( you should see a prominent outline) and work the bottom over. Stop almost an inch from the sharp turn. Pull some monokote towards the bottom that's shrunk down. Hold the kote up and shrink out some wrinkles, then lay it on the corner while still hot. You can heat and lift to repeat until it's tight. After the corner is done, pull tight and iron out some of the wrinkles on the excess. That will make the area that's cut off smoother

When the bottom and bottom corner are done, you can pull a lot of excess into the engine mount area. This makes the top a little easier than the bottom. Keep pulling tight but up away from the fuse for these corners. Shrink out the kote then quickly lay it on the corner. Stick down a little at a time in top, and pull tight away from the fuse.work the wrinkles out and away. This inch from the top corner is slow progress, but then after that straight smooth sailing

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2015, 04:56:10 PM »
In pic two, the roll towards the back, or slack part can be ironed out. If you pull tight and see wrinkles like in pic 3, do not iron that down. Those won't come out. Hold the kote up a little, shrink out the wrinkles with the iron, then lay it on and iron it straight down.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 01:26:46 PM by Dane Martin »

Offline JIM Nordin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2015, 05:45:58 PM »
Looks great man a good iron job is a
 art in itself

Jim

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2015, 11:35:53 AM »
Looking good.  Nothing like patience and work.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2015, 04:21:06 PM »
Thanks guys. Slowly but surely, it's getting done. With any luck, I'll get the fuse done tonight. White canopy and black trim. Then I'll assemble it like an arf and add the trim to the wings after its assembled. That way I can line up everything real nice. I'm always surprised at the positive feedback I get from my monokote jobs. They look great, but there's nothing like a sweet paint job. One day, maybe a house can be in our future. But for now I thank God for my family being able to keep going, and the little bit of time I can play with this stuff

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2015, 10:51:29 PM »
This one is weird to explain, but very easy to do. Because there are two open areas, this component can be treated as a wing in regard to technique. Ummmm.. Kinda... Lol
Obviously not all will start like this because I made this splice at the doubler, but the technique remains.
I started at the doubler to stick it down. I pulled it tight towards the bottom front corner and stuck it down. Then pulled down and away at the top, stuck it down. In the center, I pulled it out and back, then layed the iron in the middle. Don't push hard, this gives a little extra shrinkage to pull everything into the center of the four corners made earlier. From the center, slowly push towards the front, ironing up and down. Then go back to the middle and work towards the wing saddle.
Finish off by rolling out the outline
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 11:14:34 PM by Dane Martin »

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2015, 10:54:53 PM »
The two pics are the splice. #1 shows lifting away, iron out the wrinkles, then apply the kote. #2 shows the splice line. This is cleaned up later by monokote trim solvent.
The slow part starts on #3. I adhered the top and bottom to the fuse, and stopped short about an inch before the corners. This is trickier because monokote sticks to monokote like a champ! Slowly work this. Pull up and away and get as many wrinkles as you can WITHOUT making any creases. Iron those out away from the fuse. Let cool and touch down. Pull tight and repeat until there are reasonably no wrinkles on the corner, before sticking the kote down to the first layer. This pre-forms the kote into a nice rounded corner before you actually stick it down
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 11:27:10 PM by Dane Martin »

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2015, 10:58:26 PM »
Quick tip. Push the iron into the mount area, or wing saddle, whatever you're working on until the out line is very sharp. This prevents shrinkage and separation from the component when you trim the excess.

Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2015, 11:56:02 PM »
One more little tip when doing a fuse (Like Dane has done) or even another piece of a plane for that matter:

When doing multiple film sections, do the rear most section first, then the next and then the next towards the front.

The over lapping of the film faces the REAR of the plane this way.

This helps prevent the film lifting due to the wind and prop wash and ALSO helps prevent the OIL and Fuel
from being forced in to an over lap that may be facing forward. (I think I said that right)

Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2015, 12:04:55 AM »
Excellent point Carl. I follow that religiously, but forgot to mention it. I stay true to that even with my trim designs.. At least I try, that is.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2015, 04:19:19 PM »
One more little tip when doing a fuse (Like Dane has done) or even another piece of a plane for that matter:

When doing multiple film sections, do the rear most section first, then the next and then the next towards the front.

The over lapping of the film faces the REAR of the plane this way.

This helps prevent the film lifting due to the wind and prop wash and ALSO helps prevent the OIL and Fuel
from being forced in to an over lap that may be facing forward. (I think I said that right)



   When you are overlapping with a bare wood edge,  be sure to "bury the edge" by applying high heat and pressure until all the adhesive squeezes out on to the wood and the iron. This will minimize the thickness of the edge when you put the other layer over it, and leave a very solid spot to attach the overlaying part. You can do the same thing with the overlapping layer *if you are very careful* not to scratch or depress the underlying wood. Done correctly the seams can almost disappear and they will not come loose.

    You will have to experiment with how much heat to use with the film you are using. For monokote,  I used the hottest setting on the iron.

   Really good thread  - Monokote or similar is a very good choice for anything but a full-tilt NATs competitive model where 2-3 appearance points can make the difference.

    Brett

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2015, 11:48:01 PM »
Thanks Brett and Carl.
I agree. Monokote is great, but you know. There's nothing like a sweet paint job! Lol. I actually never met anyone who flew control line until a few years ago. I built my rc planes and models alone as a kid and used monokote, as that's what the LHS had to offer. I am extremely fortunate, because my dad didn't know how to build airplanes, but had unlimited patience with me learning. So I got good at building, and great with monokote and then met the control line club. I've never experienced such amazing builders in my life! I was in heaven I noticed none of them used monokote. So I gotta learn to paint better!

Here's the canopy on. Busy day. Not much done, but a little a day gets it done. My wife likes it so far. She says it looks sharp

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2015, 09:11:43 PM »
Ok, getting little parts done at a time. This whole thread is my attempt to replicate the box art using monokote. It's going ok. Here's the black on the nose. I have not touched up with trim solvent yet, so some of the lines look fuzzy, and there's some spots on the white. That will go away.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2015, 09:41:55 PM »
For Monokoting balsa surfaces, I've only ever used it on the tail feathers. I never considered it for the fuselage, but you left no entry points for fuel and oil. You've done a really impressive job. What about the engine area, do you use any urethane or epoxy for fuel proofing? And the same question goes for holes drilled for bolts, LG wires, and tank mounting hardware, do you seal the insides of those?

I've done some nice work with wings, and added striping and such, like the eagle feathers on my Osprey, but always cut those decorations from monokote film and applied them "cold" with ammonia glass cleaner to activate the glue. I've only recently tried the trim Kote, and am impressed with how strong its glue is.

I hope you don't mind my tangent to your topic here, but I thought this would be a good place to compare the differences between Monokote and Ultracote.

My first film coating job was with Ultracote on the wing and tail of a 1/2A Jumpin' Bean, and it came out pretty good even by my current standards. But Ucote has more Cons and only one Pro that I can think of. The Pro is that it's easy for a beginner because the adhesion temperature is far different from the warmer shrink temp, so you can do those jobs separately and avoid some frustration. But you can't brute force it like you can do with Monokote where the glue and shrink temps overlap, really hot. And for a truly wrinkle free job around sharp turns and compound curves, you have to glue and shrink at the same time, which you can do with Monokote. And it still has plenty of shrink left over for re-tightening after a day in the hot sun. But with Ucote, not so much. And ammonia doesn't activate Ucote's glue either, so you can't decorate as easily unless you use the heavier trim film. Also I almost never use a gun, just an iron with no sock. Maybe my iron doesn't get as hot as yours, but the sock slows the heat transfer too much for my preference,

Now I might have to try doing a whole fuselage, since you've demonstrated how. I might try laying tissue on with dope or Polycrylic first to harden it against dents and dings. I'll report on whether that works out or not.
Anyway, this is a great thread and will help a lot of people who turn it up in searches.
Thanks a lot for the tutorial.
Rusty

« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 10:21:25 PM by RknRusty »
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2015, 10:25:02 PM »
Hi rusty! Of course, you were the reason I posted my how to on multi colors in the RM post. I thought you might like this as well. So, let me answer some questions. A lot of the ones you asked will be answered in the post, but I'm not that far along yet. All of the areas you indicated as a fuel entry point will in fact be treated before final assembly. The tank and engine mount holes were drilled before the kote was applied.

 My iron is a 21st century iron. Ultimate adjustability, and unbelievable heat range. Much much hotter than most. I always use a sock for any long flat surfaces.

I loved what you did with the flite streak. I would have done that differently, but I think what you did was awesome.

 I have my reasons that I don't use ultrakote, but nothing bad. Just my preference is monokote.

Oh, and yes on what you're saying on the fuse for prep work. You can also use 1\2oz FG cloth. Silk span, whatever. It all works very well under the kote. When I do it, I use 1/2oz cloth.

Any questions any one has, feel free to ask. I'm certainly no expert, but folks always seem to love my plane finishes!

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2015, 07:58:13 PM »
Update with a pic. This trim scheme is just straight lines, so probably no need to go into how. But I'm still getting it done. The AMA letters are hand cut. Probably looks pretty obvious... Yuk. I'm not exactly thrilled with this one. It just looks a little campy to me. Hopefully it flys better than it looks.

Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2015, 08:13:57 PM »
Lookin darn good there Dane.  H^^ H^^
Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2015, 06:50:39 PM »
Well the Twister is not the most glamorous in looks.   Like a few other designs it is really homely but flies great once trimmed out.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2015, 07:44:57 PM »
Aw Dane, it only looks campy to you. Besides, after a few field trips they all start to look a little campy. I call it character.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
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while you're doing it!

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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2015, 09:35:58 PM »
Thanks guys. You know how it is. We are always our own worst critic. I took it to the club meeting to show my progress and everyone thought it was gorgeous. Shows what I know.... lol.
My phone is messed up again, so i'll get pics up soon. The flaps are done. Mike G got with me and verified the top and bottoms are the same. Looks like im doing ok with the replication. Thanks for the support guys!!

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2015, 03:48:21 PM »
"Great" Dane,

Looking better every day!  H^^

And your trim is iron on also? And with no bubbles.
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2015, 02:39:14 PM »
Yes sir and Yes sir, Charles.
This is 100% monokote. All of the trim is thin enough to where its easy to iron on without bubbles.
I use just enough heat (my iron setting 275) to activate the adhesive. Then hold the kote up as
I iron it down a little at a time.

Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2015, 12:48:46 AM »
Hey guys, sorry I've been away from building and flying for a while. We had to move again. Here's an update on the twister. Not done, but Kristina wants to fly it tomorrow. So the trim work on the tail can be added later. I got the correct top flite wood prop in the pic, but i need to go get a black spinner. Then finish the trim and it should look outstanding.

Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2015, 11:29:41 AM »
ME LIKEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dang great job done there Dane.

Goes to show ya, you can do great things witha kote finish.

 H^^ H^^
Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2015, 02:59:07 PM »
Hi Dane, Master of Monokote, glad you're back.
My flying buddy is giving me a Twister he started and Fancherized. All that needs to be done is build the wing, a project I'm looking forward to. I haven't had a good plane for the profile contest since I destroyed my beautiful Osprey. He laso gave me a Cardinal that needs minor work and an LA.46 to go with it. It has a Windy style motor mount.

Good flying. The wind here was strange today, dust devils and thermals. A sailplane paradise, but CL Hell.
Rusty
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while you're doing it!

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2015, 03:45:32 PM »
Here it is waiting by the door. Ready to roll!
We flew it today, had a weird maiden flight situation. Daviny, Kristina and i were all three in the circle, so all i did was fly laps. This thing tracks like it's on rails, the pull was right and the wings were level. Probably should be a real good flyer.

You're gonna love it rusty. They fly amazing. This is number two for me.

 Thanks Carl! It turned out pretty neat

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2015, 04:23:57 PM »
"Great" Dane.

WOW!

Looks just like the one on the box!

Outstanding!  H^^

Charles
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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2015, 07:58:08 PM »
I got Kristina to help me finish the twister today. All i needed was the tail feather trim finished. Easy enough, just hard to find the time. The only thing left is i need a black spinner! I think the banshee is next. Same thing, I'm just gonna copy the box art.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2015, 08:05:43 PM »
"Great" Dane,

Amazing and outstanding!  H^^

Free graphics next time you need them. Don't be shy.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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 Please visit my updated Website! www.cfcgraphics.com  If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot.  Owner of CFC Graphics. "Model Airplane Graphics from a Model Airplane Builder."  "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten.  I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.  "Ya gotta love it when a plane comes together."  Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2015, 09:02:51 PM »
Box-art quality. Good going, Dane.
"Cake"?... I might get it if it's meant to be humorous. I'll wait till you tell me first, Lol.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
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Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2015, 09:25:14 PM »
The tall one on the left there is cake! That's been my nickname for Kristina since i met her. And as it turns out, she liked this plane so much during the build that she claimed it! The kids are Daviny and Aiden, now 4 years old

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2015, 10:56:06 AM »
Looks like you have a keeper there.   Oh the plane looks alright too. H^^
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: twister monokote job
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2015, 11:16:53 AM »
Thanks doc, she liked that!
We've been flying it. It's getting better and better with a few tweaks. I'll be covering a ringmaster next, for someone else. After that I'll look at either building the banshee or a skyray.
Thanks for all the positive words guys

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