Author Topic: total how to finish a beam wing (Read 11775 times)

RC Storick · « **on:** April 12, 2013, 11:41:07 AM »

Today I will start a how to cover and finish my beam wing ship. First photo shows aircraft in the rough stage. No dope or covering.

Its at 23.5 oz as seen here.

Part of finishing light is to project a finished weight. So lets take time to do just that.

Airframe 23.5
hardware 20 oz
and finish 8-10 oz
so by my math it should come out between 51 and 53 oz give or take. My absolute max weight will be 55 oz ready to fly. I will try to do a acceptable finish and achieve that weight.

Allan Perret · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2013, 05:44:43 PM »

Do you plan to check weight gain for each step of the finish process ?

RC Storick · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:37:06 PM »

Quote from: Allan Perret on April 12, 2013, 05:44:43 PM

Do you plan to check weight gain for each step of the finish process ?

Yes today I am putting first coats of clear on I will weigh it tomorrow after it gasses off.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:57:28 PM »

Cool, been waiting a long time for an actual step-by-step from Sparky on finishing. This will be good.

Allan Perret · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2013, 09:54:24 AM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on April 12, 2013, 07:37:06 PM

Yes today I am putting first coats of clear on I will weigh it tomorrow after it gasses off.

When putting on the 3 coats of dope around perimeter for attaching covering, I will do all 3 coats in one day, because the raw balsa sucks it up so fast its dries in 15 minutes it seems. Is that what you do ? Later on when brushing fill coats I will do one coat in morning and a second coat in afternoon.

RC Storick · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2013, 10:14:37 AM »

Quote from: Allan Perret on April 13, 2013, 09:54:24 AM

When putting on the 3 coats of dope around perimeter for attaching covering, I will do all 3 coats in one day, because the raw balsa sucks it up so fast its dries in 15 minutes it seems. Is that what you do ? Later on when brushing fill coats I will do one coat in morning and a second coat in afternoon.

First step is 2 coats 100% over whole plane. Sand with 320 and fix the bad spots. Today I am applying the covering. Use your favorite covering and method. Apply 1 coat in the morning and the next one a few hours later. Sense this is a quick build and finish I will be applying 3 coats a day.

Covering added 1.5 OZ. As seen here 25 OZ.

Gene O'Keefe · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2013, 11:31:08 AM »

Can we assume electric powered ? -- or IC ?

RC Storick · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2013, 11:50:17 AM »

Quote from: Gene O'Keefe on April 13, 2013, 11:31:08 AM

Can we assume electric powered ? -- or IC ?

This is a electric powered model. If my experiment pans out it will be all that I build from now on out.

RC Storick · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2013, 01:05:01 PM »

I put it all together and with everything its 46 OZ. So I think I can make my target weight of 55 OZ. Wish it was lighter but its a start.

While the covering first 2 coats are drying I am going over the whole airplane doing all the detail sanding and touch ups. I wanted to do a quick build but still would like a good finish. So this is what it takes to do a great finish quick. Time management. While one part is drying move to the next. There is something to keep you going at all times.

Bill Little · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2013, 01:10:50 PM »

Sparky, it's looking excellent so far! From some angles it looks like it could have been a NAVY jet fighter.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

RC Storick · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2013, 01:24:44 PM »

Here is a shot of it together less wheel doors or pants

Not too bad for 15 days work?

RC Storick · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2013, 02:01:22 PM »

Safty switch install. These are some of the things I speak of in time management. Keep moving forward.. Pics tell it all.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2013, 02:43:45 PM »

Man, Robert, you are cooool. I love your build threads ! Very nice. You are a very productive and high quality builder. Will be interesting to see the weight difference between the two Crossfire airplanes. Also any flying characteristic differences. Onward !

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2013, 07:45:05 PM »

Did I miss it, or what's the covering? Not much of a finishing thread when you say apply the covering of your choice. How about more detail Sparky? Like step by step!

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2013, 07:47:30 PM »

What was the weight of the just the clear coats added like you promised in reply #2?

RC Storick · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2013, 08:22:29 PM »

Apply silk span or polyspan in the normal manner. 2 coats of dope and stick down. I didn't take photo's of that. I am still applying silkspan to the flaps and fuse. After sticking it down apply dope until filled. It takes on a sheen. Nothing more boaring than watching paint dry Crist.

I has gained 1.5 oz thus far.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2013, 08:30:52 PM »

Sparky,
The guys want you to describe how YOU do this finish. All you have to do is tell us. Preferbably step-by-step. We're not watching paint dry, we just want some information.

RC Storick · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2013, 08:59:11 PM »

First step is 2 coats 100% over whole plane. Sand with 320 and fix the bad spots. Then I am applying silkspan to whole model. And 2 coats on top of it. Tomorrow 2 coats more. I sand between coats with 320. This is a mixture of 75%-/25%. There will be no CF on this model.. At this time I would like to explain the design changes. It has a 1/2 larger root and tip. this plane has 3/4 asymmetry and a 17.5 tail moment and a 11.5 inch nose. The changes are subtle and just a experiment.

Along with the beam construction I am hoping for a 5 to 6 ounce loss in weight. This plane has adjustable controls as well.

Larry Wong · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2013, 10:13:17 PM »

Sparkey when do you cut the cowl inlet for cooling? Or is there another opening that we can't see!

RC Storick · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2013, 11:22:38 AM »

Quote from: Larry Wong on April 13, 2013, 10:13:17 PM

Sparkey when do you cut the cowl inlet for cooling? Or is there another opening that we can't see!

I cut the opening today and added 1 coat of dope. So far the finish as cost is 2 oz.. I am at 25.5 oz. and its gassing off still. For a light finish its all about sanding so today after a trip to the store for some more 320 and dinner I will be sanding. I figure 2 days of sanding and on to prime. I will post a pic later today after coming home.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2013, 12:36:15 PM »

Now, you're talking Sparky! Thanks.

RC Storick · « **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2013, 07:12:22 PM »

Today I had a few things to do around the house so I didn't get a whole lot done but I did get the fillets in . So thus far its 2 coats of 100% dope on raw wood. 4 coats 75-25% dope whole plane. Add fillets. Keep sanding. I will sand and apply one more coat brushed on 50/50 tonight and move to the primer stage tomorrow. Sense this a old school straight dope finish and it's electric. I am going to get the plane in flight ready status and see what it weighs before adding color and clear. Everything will stop at 55 oz no mater what so it's all in the sanding now.

Look back and keep a eye on the dates. This gives a incite on how fast you can build one if you set your mind to it. Trust me when I say this the quality is not lacking.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2013, 08:01:30 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on April 14, 2013, 07:12:22 PM

So thus far its 2 coats of 100% dope on raw wood. 4 coats 75-25% dope whole plane.

75 thinner, 25 dope?

RC Storick · « **Reply #23 on:** April 14, 2013, 09:37:03 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on April 14, 2013, 08:01:30 PM

75 thinner, 25 dope?

75% dope 25% thinner. I am trying to build something to sand.

Jeff Traxler · « **Reply #24 on:** April 14, 2013, 11:12:53 PM »

Sparky,
The timing of this thread is perfect.I have a project at this stage of finish and I have been goin slow cause I ain't real sure where to go.Seeing this I think primer is in order,everything is covered in silkspan and has 5 good coats with 320 in between.Fun,Fun,Fun.It sure is nice to get over the hump of wreckin' airplanes.Now I can make a nice ship and won't have to fly ARFs anymore.
Trax

RC Storick · « **Reply #25 on:** April 14, 2013, 11:32:27 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Traxler on April 14, 2013, 11:12:53 PM

Sparky,
The timing of this thread is perfect.I have a project at this stage of finish and I have been goin slow cause I ain't real sure where to go.Seeing this I think primer is in order,everything is covered in silkspan and has 5 good coats with 320 in between.Fun,Fun,Fun.It sure is nice to get over the hump of wreckin' airplanes.Now I can make a nice ship and won't have to fly ARFs anymore.
Trax

If you follow my number of coats and are dillagent in sanding you will have a top model. Ask anyone who have seen my finishes they aren't too bad. No mater how much time is spent. If its a week finish or 2 months the only difference is details.

RC Storick · « **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2013, 03:00:46 PM »

So far finishing costs 3.34 OZ in covering and fillets. 4 Coats of dope over whole plane. Still sanding

Even though this was a quick build I am becoming fond of it. The fits are great. I will be finishing this to be at least be NATS quality and fly the best of the 2 at this years NATS. I am trying to dream up a paint job to compete with what I have seen so far on this forum.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2013, 03:44:58 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on April 15, 2013, 03:00:46 PM

I am trying to dream up a paint job to compete with what I have seen so far on this forum.

How about white overall with copper and orange trim?

Jeff Traxler · « **Reply #28 on:** April 15, 2013, 05:23:38 PM »

I will definately pay attention to the procedure Sparky.Your ships always look FRONT ROW

RC Storick · « **Reply #29 on:** April 15, 2013, 06:14:02 PM »

Not much to report today so far. I mounted the canopy and filled the fillets where I missed. Today is all about sanding. Sand once re-sand. Add a coat and sand 4 more times and add another coat and sand 6 more times. I know you think I am kidding but I am not. A good finish is all about sanding.

Cooling

Inlet

Outlet

17 days to this point. I wish I would have started this sooner

No special provisions have been built into this plane for cooling. Comes in one end and out the other.

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #30 on:** April 15, 2013, 07:08:32 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on April 13, 2013, 01:10:50 PM

Sparky, it's looking excellent so far! From some angles it looks like it could have been a NAVY jet fighter.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

My thoughts too. Very jet like, nice lines. It would look killer in a 50's USAF scheme.

Steve Bakac · « **Reply #31 on:** April 16, 2013, 01:51:56 AM »

G/Day Rob
Mate looking good.I just have a couple of questions, the first which I may have miss earlier in the build , what is your set going to be? and the second is that 55oz you are aiming at, with the battery?

regards Steve

RC Storick · « **Reply #32 on:** April 16, 2013, 08:41:53 AM »

55 OZ max ready to fly. Battery installed.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #33 on:** April 16, 2013, 09:11:42 AM »

I have tried usisng Sparky's method of finish. He has way more patience than I do. I sand until it feels smooth and then put on more dope. He has front row finishes even if some judges don't think so. But, then again I am no appearance judge and is the reason I hide my planes behind the bushes at VSC.

RC Storick · « **Reply #34 on:** April 16, 2013, 09:22:24 PM »

Ready to start priming. Today I had to have NAPA order the primer I use seems they didn't have any on the shelf. I will pick it up in the morning and start to finish. As seen here its 50 ounces ,could be flown now. This includes .5 approx wing tip weight. All the electric hardware is on board.

This airplane is a little larger the the original Crossfire its approx 670 Squares with a 11.5 nose moment and a 17.75 tail. Stab is same area. Depending on the weight as finished I might add wheel pants on this one as long as they are super light. Most electrics I have seen have been running 0 degrees offset. this one has between 2-3 degrees. 1/4 inch at prop tips. I made the nose longer to allow adjustment in the battery .

I am most please with the way this has come out. I am not sure I could have done it any better had it taken 6 months instead of 3 weeks.

This was all my second choice wood (scraps I had left over from other builds).

wwwarbird · « **Reply #35 on:** April 16, 2013, 10:40:16 PM »

Quote from: Douglas Ames on April 15, 2013, 07:08:32 PM

My thoughts too. Very jet like, nice lines. It would look killer in a 50's USAF scheme.

...silver with some cool period markings, sounds like a lightweight paint job to me.

James Strickland · « **Reply #36 on:** April 17, 2013, 12:52:28 AM »

Hey Robert, what can you tell me is the "important" difference between the Aeropoxy super-fil you're useing and the Aeropoxy light? I see them both in the Brodak catalog, next to each other, but thier descriptions in the catalog don't really say much. BTW, looks wonderful, & 3 weeks doesn't even compute for me, even though I don't work and can build all I want, LOL.

Thanks in Advance,
James

MarcusCordeiro · « **Reply #37 on:** April 17, 2013, 04:24:09 AM »

Following and learning...
That's amazing Robert.
You got so much done and done right so fast.
I love the cooling!!!

Marcus

john e. holliday · « **Reply #38 on:** April 17, 2013, 09:51:45 AM »

Hope your NAPA store don't hit you like mine did. The quart of primer I got was twice the price of the last can I got. By the way the plane looks great. Now you being ex Navy, looks like a Blue Angels scheme would work.

RC Storick · « **Reply #39 on:** April 17, 2013, 04:48:27 PM »

I got 6 cans of DC 540 today and I have used 2. Today is the first day of put it on and sand it off. I think by Saturday I can shoot color. Which I just got in from Wicks. There were surprisingly very few large mistakes to fix. Guess I need to speed build from now on out. 19 days into it and I am finishing.

I shoot 1 coat of primer over the whole plane and sand with 400. Go back over the bad spots as many times as needed to make it smooth no dings dents or sanding marks. This is the stage that makes the finish. I can do a spectacular paint job with a bug sprayer because a paint job is not in the application its in the sanding. So taking your time here yields a better finished product.

For the new modeler folowing this thread and wondering how I can do this so quickly. Here it is. When I was younger my DAD owned a Hobby shop and all I did all day was build. That coupled with 50+ years experience helps. Take your time there is no race. Just do your thing at your own pace and you will find that model building is a truly enjoyable activity.

Bill Little · « **Reply #40 on:** April 17, 2013, 05:09:55 PM »

I agree, Sparky, that building is a very enjoyable experience. There was a time when I could also knock out a plane at warp speed. But until the health gets better (I'm getting there, slowly) I am not turning out much work. I have a few models that I *MUST* get finished...............

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Curare · « **Reply #41 on:** April 17, 2013, 06:04:00 PM »

Robert, I notice you've not layed any primer on the flaps, any reason for this?

Can you talk us through the details of sanding the wing so you don't blow through the covering?

Also, what grade silkspan are you using?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm very interested in what you're doing.

RC Storick · « **Reply #42 on:** April 17, 2013, 06:30:41 PM »

Quote from: Curare on April 17, 2013, 06:04:00 PM

Robert, I notice you've not layed any primer on the flaps, any reason for this?

Can you talk us through the details of sanding the wing so you don't blow through the covering?

Also, what grade silkspan are you using?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm very interested in what you're doing.

I just have not got to the flaps yet. This is polyspan on wings and silkspan on the wood. I use 400 Grit and sand up to the rib. Stay off the ribs. Its easy.

I will sand 90% of this primer off leaving it transparent. You can just see the wood under it. That finish sanding is done with 600. Should take a day or so before final sanding before paint.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #43 on:** April 17, 2013, 08:01:26 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on April 17, 2013, 09:51:45 AM

Now you being ex Navy, looks like a Blue Angels scheme would work.

Now there's an idea! And easy!

Paint yellow, lay masks, paint blue, done.

(Some silver on all of the leading edges would also be a cool detail with that scheme)

If you're going to do more of them this can be "Blue Angels 1" and so on...

RC Storick · « **Reply #44 on:** April 17, 2013, 08:12:53 PM »

I have the paint in my head and you will like it. Its going to be a little more than the last one. Well a lot more.

RC Storick · « **Reply #45 on:** April 18, 2013, 12:41:24 AM »

It's late and I am tired. I spent all day sanding and I am just about ready to paint. I think one more day of prep work and I can shoot color.The paint scheme I have in mind is the back half of the plane white. White LE with black checks and the front half red. Blue pinstripes. Black canopy. Kind of a reverse of the plane I flew ate the team trials a few years ago. The weight is creeping fast and I don't know If I can hit my goal. Might go over a little. I do want it Nat's quality so that comes at a small cost. Still targeting 55 oz and it will be close. I know what paint weighs. There sure wont be a gallon of clear on it! LMAO

I will post a progress pic as there is some change.

Derek Barry · « **Reply #46 on:** April 18, 2013, 07:10:40 AM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on April 18, 2013, 12:41:24 AM

It's late and I am tired. I spent all day sanding and I am just about ready to paint. I think one more day of prep work and I can shoot color.The paint scheme I have in mind is the back half of the plane white. White LE with black checks and the front half red. Blue pinstripes. Black canopy. Kind of a reverse of the plane I flew ate the team trials a few years ago. The weight is creeping fast and I don't know If I can hit my goal. Might go over a little. I do want it Nat's quality so that comes at a small cost. Still targeting 55 oz and it will be close. I know what paint weighs. There sure wont be a gallon of clear on it! LMAO

I will post a progress pic as there is some change.

I know that you are shooting for 55oz but I think it would still fly very well at 60oz. I wouldn't worry too much.

Derek

RC Storick · « **Reply #47 on:** April 18, 2013, 10:15:03 AM »

I have one at 60 now.

RC Storick · « **Reply #48 on:** April 18, 2013, 10:41:21 AM »

Here is the plane all in prime. Its been sanded with 400. Today I will spend the day sanding with 600 and fixing any samll dings dents or scratches. Should be ready to shoot color tomorrow. At the end of this thread I will do a recap in fast finishing.

RC Storick · « **Reply #49 on:** April 18, 2013, 12:41:49 PM »

In building and finishing the most important tool is the sand paper. Let me give a run down on that.

I use 30-40 grit for rough shaping flaps and blocks. After getting them close I finish shaping with 100 down to 220. All large pieces can be shaped in this manner. I use a dremel sanding drum to rough hollow. Followed by gluing 100 grit sandpaper to my fingers. ( use the light method ) Finish off with 220 inside the block. The whole plane is put together and any long edges shaped with a long sanding block affixed with 220. Now that it straight and sanded with 220 it time to step down to 320. Sand whole plane till smoother use the light to see any low spots and use a block affixed with 320 to finish shaping.

Apply 3 coats 100% clear dope lightly sanding between coats with 320. Apply covering and then use 75% dope 25% thinner on wings 3 coats. sanding in between coats with 320 then apply fillets and shape. Now mix some 50/50 dope thinner. 3 coats whole plane and sand sand sand. Now I use NAPA DC 540 light grey primer . I buy 6 cans at a time. start with a liberal coat over the wings top and bottom same number of coat and do the top and bottom of one panel at the same time. Important on flaps. This keeps them from warping. Sanding all the primer with 400 grit paper. Fix all the bad spots. I use a lacquer spot putty for any small scratches. Be careful using this as it is heavy. Touch up the plane around wings and fillets.

After you are satisfied with the plane sand whole plane with 600 paper until the primer is semi transparent. You can see the wood just start to show under it. Just leave it all a even light grey so color application is even.