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Author Topic: Tissue over Wood  (Read 993 times)

Offline Tim Wescott

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Tissue over Wood
« on: January 14, 2010, 02:13:47 PM »
I'm trying -- for the first time -- to cover an all-solid 1/2 A model with tissue over doped balsa, and I'm running into some problems.

The method that I'm using is at least partially the suggestion of someone here: dope the wood with a couple of coats, then stick dry tissue to the wood by painting with thinner.

I'm using Sig Lite Coat dope, Peck-Polymers tissue, and lacquer thinner from the auto parts store.

It mostly works like a charm, except that the one large expanse that I covered (with one big piece of tissue) had several wrinkles in it.  These appear to come from some slight swelling of the tissue as the thinner hit it.  Fortunately I was able to rub most of these down after everything dried, but while they're not too bad now (good enough that I'm not going to strip the covering), they're still visible if you know where to look.

So -- anyone have any suggestions?  All I can think of is to use more pieces of tissue in the hopes of working the wrinkles out before they happen, but then instead of maybe having wrinkles I'll definitely have lines between the pieces of tissue.

Thanks in advance.
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Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Tissue over Wood
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 10:56:13 PM »
If they're over wood, you should be able to just dope further and sand them out. For future reference, you can dampen silkspan (or tissue. I suppose) and lay it over the pre-doped wood. I use enough dope and sanding to get a bit of a sheen, before laying the tissue on. I cannot vouch for your particular choice of dope/thinner, but using Brodak clear and thinner has worked well for me. Several coats and some sanding to take out high grain and level the surface, followed by paper, and finally brushed-on thinner to adhear the paper to the original dope has worked well with no wrinkles. The problems I've encountered are two fold, but not visible in final finish:

1) The new "silkspan" has not adhered as well as the old stuff (do a SSW Forum search for lots of commentary).

2) If you don't let the dope really dry for several hours, I'm convinced that the paper can "float" up some, causing a heavier finish.

Otherwise, no wrinkles. You can have as smooth a finish as you want.

So...you should be able to sand and dope for a perfectly level and smooth finish, even though you have wrinkles now.

Edit: Having re-read the post, I should comment that, if there's a wrinkle, then there's excess paper. Often this can be accomodated by working the paper some with the fingers, while doping. However, I often cut slits in the paper and either overlap or cut out more material to minimize any overlap. In either case, sanding removes that excess paper, sometimes even before the work is "dry  (as long as it's only detached in tiny areas, like along a narrow wrinkle, and not a large-area 'blister'). If there is bare wood, yes, you can easily patch and sand the edges. If a large area is not attached, remove it and patch, sanding later along the edges. In both cases, tearing the paper edges, rather than cutting them makes feathering easier. It seems nerve-wracking sometimes, but after a few successes, you get to expect things to come out all right. Trust me!

SK
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 11:27:08 PM by Serge_Krauss »

Offline Randy Ryan

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Re: Tissue over Wood
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2010, 11:46:18 AM »
Serge is correct, but here's another little trick. Sorta late for this one, but when you cover large solid areas with tissue as you describe, do it as though you were covering an open bay. Seal around the edges then water shrink the center. It will pull down flat and you can brush thinner through it and rub it down with your fingers. I do this on stick and tissue models as well when adding large tissue color trim pieces, it srhinks into place and lays directly onto the base covering, so you can also use this method for covering closed compound curved areas.

Another trick I've learned, I use allot of combinations of materials for finishing, so I do run into incompatable combos sometimes. I did that using plain lacquer thinner with Brodak clear. Then when trying to cover with tissue the thinner would not soften the dope and the tissue would not stick. Solution: use acetone instead of thinner for this purpose. Don't thin dope with it, but use in place of thinner when covering. I've converted to this regardless of the product I've doped with, actetone is universal for softening these materials and will offer very rapid adhesion if you've predoped the surface enough.
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Tissue over Wood
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2010, 02:22:04 PM »
I'm with Randy on sticking the tissue down around the edges, then water shrinking.  This will give a smoother finish than the bit of sticking the tissue down all over with thinner.   However, do not do this on a 1/8 in thick stab and elevator. Not unless you want a pretzel.

Offline Douglas Ames

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Re: Tissue over Wood
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 03:24:42 PM »
Moral of the story - Use the right thinner and dampen your silkspan.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Tissue over Wood
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2010, 04:06:46 PM »
I'm with Randy on sticking the tissue down around the edges, then water shrinking.  This will give a smoother finish than the bit of sticking the tissue down all over with thinner.   However, do not do this on a 1/8 in thick stab and elevator. Not unless you want a pretzel.
How about a 1/8 inch slab wing and 1/16 inch slab stab?

I ain't getting close to that thing with water!
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Randy Ryan

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Re: Tissue over Wood
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2010, 08:30:01 AM »
How about a 1/8 inch slab wing and 1/16 inch slab stab?

I ain't getting close to that thing with water!


Tim, cover both sides before you shrink it. Rubbing alcohol will also shrink it but less then water. Wet and pin down while it drys. Now here's another little trick, after you shrink it with alcohol there may still be a few little wrinkles, hit it with acetone, then immediately with water and pinch it down, the wrinkles, small ones, will usually disappear. Larger ones will become adhered to the balsa and a little light sanding will take off the excess.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 10:51:39 AM by Randy Ryan »
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Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Tissue over Wood
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2010, 05:17:35 PM »
         Tim, the right thinner is of key importance. I'm not saying it can't be done though its just very helpful. For instance Sig thinner is a slower thinner than Brodak . I find that unless humidity is high I can generally get by with Sig products. When using Brodak, I almost always have to add retarder as to not get blushing. I've had those wrinkles you have and I could wet the area with a few brush strokes and pick a corner up and pull the wrinkles out. You should be able to do that with Brodak as well, you just may have to keep the area wet with thinner. As noted above, you could dampen the tissue and then install followed by brushing over it. I would suggest using a thinned mixture of clear though. This may blush initially due to the dampness in the tissue but typically goes away when another coat is applied. The one problem I've found with the hardware store lacquer thinners I've tried is that they never seem to work well. I only use these to clean and I feel they don't do a sufficient job in doing so. I notice this when trying to clean brushes they still get hard as where the proper thinner leaves the bristles soft and free. I just recently had one thinner make the dope on the brush gel and turn a whitish color. Sig thinner is expensive but it works well. Ken

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Tissue over Wood
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 04:05:20 PM »
Just a note:

I'm getting acceptable results putting the tissue on dry.  On the smaller bits things are going fine the first pass, on the wings I've been able to rub the wrinkles out with thinner and finger-joint* grease after everything dries.

If I contemplate doing this again I'll make up some test panels and try doing it like a stick and tissue model -- stick it around the edges, wet it (I like rubbing alcohol, as I can control the dampness quite easily), let it tighten up.  Once dry, if the panel doesn't look like a pretzel, I'll stick it on down and see how it does.

But I want to fly this thing soon, and no warps is more important to me than looks.  So dry it is.

* That's like elbow grease, only with a lighter touch.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


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