Author Topic: SLC OVER Polyspan? (Read 231990 times)

john e. holliday · « **Reply #200 on:** September 08, 2022, 08:51:00 AM »

Come on Doug you been on here long enough to know SLC means Super Light Covering. It has been covered in the finishing section ever since Larry introduce the procedure to us. It does make for a stronger surface with the combination of materials. I also believe it is lighter than dope and silkspan. Some good pictures of results in finishing section.

Now to finish my first cup of coffee.

944_Jim · « **Reply #201 on:** September 08, 2022, 03:54:05 PM »

Gentlemen,
Does SLC shrink more in one direction than the other? That is, do I need to be concerned about a grain like silkspan or DocSpan?

Thanks in advance.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #202 on:** September 08, 2022, 05:20:09 PM »

In my experience no.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #203 on:** February 07, 2023, 10:46:55 PM »

Check out Doc’s new thread on a refinishing job. Maybe he will put a completed photo here? 😃

Larry Renger · « **Reply #204 on:** February 18, 2023, 07:13:16 AM »

He finished it and it looks great! 👍

john e. holliday · « **Reply #205 on:** February 18, 2023, 03:14:26 PM »

Sorry Larry, but this one is now all Mono-Kote finish over what i couldn't get off of the doc paper and mylar.

The gray is before.

kevin king · « **Reply #206 on:** February 20, 2023, 12:52:47 PM »

Doc you must be quite the prolific builder. Stripping off a dope finish to a completely new monokote finish in no time. Great job.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #207 on:** February 25, 2023, 05:18:24 AM »

SLC is “super light covering”. Look for Phil Cartier in classifieds. It is a Mylar film with heat sensitive adhesive.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #208 on:** May 12, 2023, 03:51:22 PM »

Y’know, with 56000 + hits on this thread, we need some more photos of models using this technique. Surely the good Doc isin’t alone in seeing the benefits.

No dope, light weight, tough as nails, what is keeping you guys? 🤠

With light park flyer transparent film over light polyspan it looks like the best free flight finish. And is togher and lighter.

👍

Larry Renger · « **Reply #209 on:** May 12, 2023, 04:15:48 PM »

Now I was just think’in, what if you bonded a layer of carbon veil over the polyspan and then overcoated it with film, it would easilystand up to just about anything and still be very light. 🤠

Spray adhesive to stick the carbon down on the polyspan then the SLC to finish the composite covering.

🤔

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #210 on:** May 12, 2023, 09:25:28 PM »

I think this thread rates getting pinned to the top to make it easier to find. I think it's been well proven!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

john e. holliday · « **Reply #211 on:** May 12, 2023, 09:36:20 PM »

Hey, the old DOC has almost made it bullet proof without the carbon veil. I think I have posted pics of the planes I have done. Well my latest is waiting for fuse to be covered.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #212 on:** May 14, 2023, 11:30:16 AM »

Question: I want to have a medium blue color as the base, I was thinking I could use medium silkspan as the base then UltraCote Parklite film cover (to save weight over the full UltaCote). Do you think the silkspan will give the parklite additional strength and wrinkle resistance as the SLC seems too?

I know this is a very long thread but it contains a lot of good information and ways to approach covering.

Best, DennisT

john e. holliday · « **Reply #213 on:** May 14, 2023, 07:17:35 PM »

Try it and let us know. Never know something until you try it. Like the mylar applications I have done it as base coat and on another plane did it as top coat For me it elleminates a lot of dope with mylar on top.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #214 on:** May 16, 2023, 04:48:32 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Toth on May 14, 2023, 11:30:16 AM

Question: I want to have a medium blue color as the base, I was thinking I could use medium silkspan as the base then UltraCote Parklite film cover (to save weight over the full UltaCote). Do you think the silkspan will give the parklite additional strength and wrinkle resistance as the SLC seems too?

I know this is a very long thread but it contains a lot of good information and ways to approach covering.

Best, DennisT

Parklite fim works just fine. I used on a couple of planes and it has stood up well over several years of hard use.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #215 on:** December 26, 2023, 08:33:48 AM »

SLC is”super light covering” a thin Mylar with heat sensitive adhesive coating.

Oftenavailsble at sign shops who use for laminating documents.

Any of the “park flyer” films will also work fine.

🤠

john e. holliday · « **Reply #216 on:** December 26, 2023, 08:55:27 AM »

Well the old DOC just tried to get on Phil's Corehouse site. What I came up with is=t does not show his SLC. But if a person does a search for Mylar material you will find several places that have shrinkable mylar.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #217 on:** February 02, 2024, 04:51:22 PM »

Hey guys, 62,000 + views and more every day. Is anyone but Doc Holiday using the technique, and if so, who, where and how did it work for you? C’mon give!

Dave Hull · « **Reply #218 on:** February 03, 2024, 02:21:41 AM »

Larry,

I know this is likely to be sacrilege, but I have a dyed-tissue-over-clear plastic job in my garage. Only issue is that it is only one half of a wing. Dunno where the rest went, but definitely missing. So is the fuselage and all the rest. I lucked out and got the wing half with the AMA number still on it. Very nicely dun up, so the prior owner prolly was significantly upset. And since it came from Whittier, I suppose one of the G'Knights would recommunize the individual that is doing yer favorite covering system all backwards. Who knows, mebbe some of them other Knights (Knaves?) have already gotten on him and if he got reformed, he's built everything since in the right order...?

That might be your existence theorem for SLC modified stuntskins....other than Doc himself. After all, he tried doctor paper, pharmacist's paper, kinesthesiologist's paper, and maybe some others.

The Divot

Larry Renger · « **Reply #219 on:** February 05, 2024, 06:17:13 PM »

As mentioned before, the appeal of SLC over tissue, especially using ModPoge adhesive is that no dope or clear coat are needed. Tough, fuel PROOF and high gloss. 🤠

Oh yes, rigid, tough as nails and light weight. What more can you want?

If you really must, it is paint ready with only surface scuffing. No primer needed.

For larger models, use heavier colored films. The tissue under layer will help stabilize the covering in hotter conditions.

Dave Hull · « **Reply #220 on:** February 08, 2024, 12:49:17 AM »

Well, Larry--I'm glad you asked. Since paintin' and finishin' just ain't my thing, I want a covering and paint system that has kinetic autogenesis. That is, I put the wood airframe on the bench in the shop. Then, I unroll the covering right next to it. If the covering takes adhesive, well, I want to open the can or bottle or whatever and put that on the bench, too. Take some cans of paint and do the same deal. Then I want to turn off the light, and shut the door and come back the next day to a bee-uutiful airplane, fuelproof and ready to go.

I mean, since you were asking, "what more could I want?"

The Divot

fred cesquim · « **Reply #221 on:** February 08, 2024, 03:21:57 AM »

i have tried silkspan over SLC, in my opinion too heavy for a competitive F2b plane finish, and after primer, paint and buffing you cannot see that it was paper doped.
i still stick with my paint over monokote method as a light, fast and good finish method.
last picture you can see the mokoted red and paint over, not detrimental to the finish looks.
unless i am missing something here, what is the great advantage of the method of slc/polyspan?

bill bischoff · « **Reply #222 on:** February 08, 2024, 08:45:41 PM »

The idea is to apply the paper, then the SLC. The SLC provides the slick, sealed surface for painting, just like painting over Monokote. The paper or polyspan underneath provides the strength and rigidity, and since it's porous, there are no trapped air bubbles when you apply the SLC.

fred cesquim · « **Reply #223 on:** February 09, 2024, 03:08:11 AM »

Quote from: bill bischoff on February 08, 2024, 08:45:41 PM

The idea is to apply the paper, then the SLC. The SLC provides the slick, sealed surface for painting, just like painting over Monokote. The paper or polyspan underneath provides the strength and rigidity, and since it's porous, there are no trapped air bubbles when you apply the SLC.

then why not cut time and weight going with monokote? it´s already painted with the base color and can be painted over. the strenght is perfect as i have used on i-beams and about 15 F2B competitive planes for a longe time, so no warps, twists or flexing are of any concern.
maybe worth a try on monokote, if properly sealed over the surface and ribs, it will lock and strenght the wing.
i have used a lot on 2-3 meters sailplanes with far less structure and a huge demand on strenght while being high speed towed up and never had an issue.
food for though
regards

Larry Renger · « **Reply #224 on:** February 15, 2024, 09:35:45 PM »

Film over tissue is stonger and lighter. Period! Try it and then comment. If you haven’t tried it you know nothing about it.

I have extensive experience with plain Monokote, and in So. Cal. hot weather it turns to mush.

Give film over tissue a shot and then we can listen to your opinion.

🤠

fred cesquim · « **Reply #225 on:** February 16, 2024, 04:35:22 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on February 15, 2024, 09:35:45 PM

Film over tissue is stonger and lighter. Period! Try it and then comment. If you haven’t tried it you know nothing about it.

I have extensive experience with plain Monokote, and in So. Cal. hot weather it turns to mush.

Give film over tissue a shot and then we can listen to your opinion.

🤠

I have been pro modelling for the last 35 years of my life with about 300+ planes built ( from c/l to 1/3 scale jets r/c) and while doing that lived on 3 parts of the huge country of Brazil, each of the 3 cities had either inclement sun or cold, and betwen them a tropical zone ( with a mix of annoying hot to chilling cold) so i belive i have a bit of experience with covering materials and finishes, plus, having my own planes weekly exposed to the weather.
film sags? yes, a bit, but a quick heat gun from time to time put it back in shape.
lately i have switched my method and the film is bonded entirely to the plane while covering and this prevented the sag 90%.
never had a structural failure. So my goal it´s the lightest / good looking finish to achieve, and pretty much film painted do that.
this plane have a 57" wingspan and fully loaded for flight weights 1600 grams. i see no reason to add weight.
anyway, modellers have choices and should work with what aorks better for them and suits the needs
if you´re happy and having sucess with the polyspan/slc method, that´s a nice thing
regards from Brazil

Larry Renger · « **Reply #226 on:** February 18, 2024, 11:40:17 AM »

I’m not saying Monokote doesn’t work, but film over tissue is better. Try it and see. 🤠

fred cesquim · « **Reply #227 on:** February 21, 2024, 10:17:03 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on February 18, 2024, 11:40:17 AM

I’m not saying Monokote doesn’t work, but film over tissue is better. Try it and see. 🤠

i still see no point on doing that, i will end up with the outer surface monokote like, and with weight penalty and no strenght advantage.
but whatever works for each one will do
regards

kevin king · « **Reply #228 on:** February 25, 2024, 07:26:23 PM »

Where is the link to purchase the slc? what are the dimensions to purchase? Width and thickness?

Dave Hull · « **Reply #229 on:** February 25, 2024, 11:23:30 PM »

Was reading thru the May 1962 issue of American Modeler. A tip from CWO Frank Buldra from Edwards AFB described his method of covering a wing first with Saran wrap and dope, then covering with silk. While it doesn't say, I suspect it is a method of avoiding excessive dope building up inside and making a mess of things--and perhaps obviating the whole "dope from underneath" thing. The Saran was stuck down with Pliobond. Not sure how well the dope would stick the silk down to the Saran, though....

I suppose NASA's BoPeep is the better stuff nowadays.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #230 on:** February 26, 2024, 06:37:49 AM »

Larry,
When doing the film over tissue I assume it is silkspan (ish) what weight do you use? Second, how many coats of clear do you give it? Third, can you use Mono/Ultra/China color film over it and does the tissue keep it from bubbling?

Best, DennisT

Larry Renger · « **Reply #231 on:** February 26, 2024, 07:49:23 AM »

I use lightweight Polyspan stuck down with ModPoge as a heat activated adhesive. Do NOT dope the tissue!

I prefer light weight Park flyer style film as the overcoat. If you want a painted finish SLC is very light.

The film sticks to the tissue everywhere making it a composit similar to MICAFILM.

The result is remarkably light and tough.

🤠

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #232 on:** February 26, 2024, 09:55:59 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on February 26, 2024, 07:49:23 AM

I use lightweight Polyspan stuck down with ModPoge as a heat activated adhesive. Do NOT dope the tissue!

I prefer light weight Park flyer style film as the overcoat. If you want a painted finish SLC is very light.

The film sticks to the tissue everywhere making it a composit similar to MICAFILM.

The result is remarkably light and tough.

🤠

Larry, do you prepare the balsa? Do you use ModPoge to edge glue the Polyspan then paint through the polyspan after shrinking? I have had good results with monokote over two coats of ModPoge sanded very smooth. You have to watch the heat or it will bubble up under the monokote. How is your SLC on compound curves. Tips, fillets, fuselages etc. I can see how having a surface like polyspan would make a better base than balsa with less lifting later on. This looks like it has potential but I am far from sold.

Ken

bill bischoff · « **Reply #233 on:** February 26, 2024, 11:28:12 AM »

Ken, I have found that two coats of Mod Podge brushed over wing, except for the cap strips, provides good bonding of the Polyspan when it is ironed on. No additional doping or other coating is necessary. The SLC irons over the "bare" Polyspan. Since the Polyspan is porous, you can't trap air bubbles. If you can work with Monokote, you should have no problems with SLC. I like the fact that painting seals all the seams against fuel seepage. For electric, obviously that's not important. I also like that it be painted any color, even fades or camouflage with "soft" edges. If you're happy with the choice of colors available from Monokote or Ultracote, then this may not be significant to you either. I found the process to be a good fit for my Slow Rat racer, which leads an oily, "rough'n'tumble" life. Ask me about any time you see me at the field.

Bill Bischoff

Larry Renger · « **Reply #234 on:** February 26, 2024, 06:05:56 PM »

Raw polyspan over ModPoge does not bubble. No treatment after basic covering.

Then the film can adhere to the tissue perfectly. No sealant on the tissue allows perfect bonding over the entire surface.

After tacking the Polyspan down to the balsa the film covers without any problems. No more finish required. The film can be the final finish or base coat for final paint finish. No primer or filler needed.

The composite tissue and film duplicates multiple dope coats, filler, sanding and primer. No fumes, way quicker, probably smoother.

As I keep saying: try it then comment.

For more detail. Read this thread from the beginning. There are photos of how it works.

Just give it a try. Experience will answer all your questions.

Build a “junk” model to try it out on. Nobody doesn’t need an extra Ringmaster or Twister for those “bad weather “ days. You will be stunned by the toughness of composite covering. I, sadly, have found it resistant to inverted landings on asphault.

😢

🤠

Larry Renger · « **Reply #235 on:** February 28, 2024, 06:53:02 PM »

I have been remiss in my reporting. I have gone back through this entire 5 page thread and have found the following flyers have used this technique. No negative comments!

Doc Holliday
Rick Huff
Dennis Lipset
Jim Vigani
Mike Griffen
Paul Gibeault
Mikey Pratt
Ara Dedekian
Fred Von Gortier IV
Gene Pape
Bill Bichoff

Thanks one and all for your trying it out! Let us know how it worked out for you long term.

🤠

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #236 on:** February 28, 2024, 07:27:46 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on February 28, 2024, 06:53:02 PM

I have been remiss in my reporting. I have gone back through this entire 5 page thread and have found the following flyers have used this technique. No negative comments!

Doc Holliday
Rick Huff
Dennis Lipset
Jim Vigani
Mike Griffen
Paul Gibeault
Mikey Pratt
Ara Dedekian
Fred Von Gortier IV
Gene Pape
Bill Bichoff

Thanks one and all for your trying it out! Let us know how it worked out for you long term.

🤠

Larry, Where's my name? I used this method on my Shark 402 and it was "AWESOME"!

Jerry Arana

Larry Renger · « **Reply #237 on:** February 28, 2024, 09:23:16 PM »

Sorry if I missed you! How did it work out on the long term? 🤠

If I am counting correctly, including myself, we have 14 pilots who have tried the system. The old Doc and I have related long term use. What about the rest of you?

🤠

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #238 on:** March 10, 2024, 02:39:53 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on February 26, 2024, 09:55:59 AM

How is your SLC on compound curves. Tips, fillets, fuselages etc. I can see how having a surface like polyspan would make a better base than balsa with less lifting later on. This looks like it has potential but I am far from sold.

Ok, I have gone back over the 10 years of this thread and I am willing to give it a try. I am a big fan of polyspan so why not. Where do I go to get both the polyspan and the SLC?

Ken

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #239 on:** March 10, 2024, 05:22:53 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on February 28, 2024, 09:23:16 PM

How did it work out on the long term? 🤠

🤠

Larry, I don't know. It was great for a season with me, then I sold it to Kim and he wrecked it...........

But, it probably would still be flying if not for the mishap Kim had.

Cheers, Jerry

Larry Renger · « **Reply #240 on:** March 10, 2024, 07:22:35 PM »

See the Core House in the classifieds for SLC.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #241 on:** March 11, 2024, 08:03:41 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on March 10, 2024, 07:22:35 PM

See the Core House in the classifieds for SLC.

The link doesn't work. I also can't find a source for Polyspan. Help me Obwan..

Larry Renger · « **Reply #242 on:** March 11, 2024, 08:24:18 PM »

Sorry to hear that Phil is not responding! Perhaps he will chime in here. I think he recently said he was back in stock.

Many sign shops use the film, and wil be able to sell you a yard or two. Perhaps someone on this forum will have a source.

Frankly, I have always used light weight park flyer covering. It works just fine as a colored, film finish, and seems to be incredibly durable applied over polyspan. Like for years! And evil flight events. 😱

If the model is large just use Monokote or Orafilm. The key is to produce a composite, bulletproof covering with no doping required.

The tissue stabilizes the film and eliminates rips in the event of an abrasion or puncture. Don’t ask me how I know.

Also seems to eliminate temperature flexing and provides extra torsion resistance to structure. The tissue, undoped adds very little to the model weight compared to a dope/paint finish of equivalent appearance.

Monokote/orafilm is fine alone, but overall, just doesn’t compare.

And, if you still want a painted finish, you eliminate the dope and filler and primer steps. Brush scuffed film is ready for color coats over a white base.

Read the whole thread to answer just about any questions.

🤠

Larry Renger · « **Reply #243 on:** March 11, 2024, 08:50:41 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on March 11, 2024, 08:24:18 PM

Sorry to hear that Phil is not responding! Perhaps he will chime in here. I think he recently said he was back in stock.

Many sign shops use the film, and wil be able to sell you a yard or two. Perhaps someone on this forum will have a source.

Frankly, I have always used light weight park flyer covering. It works just fine as a colored, film finish, and seems to be incredibly durable applied over polyspan. Like for years! And evil flight events. 😱

If the model is large just use Monokote or Orafilm. The key is to produce a composite, bulletproof covering with no doping required.

The tissue stabilizes the film and eliminates rips in the event of an abrasion or puncture. Don’t ask me how I know.

Also seems to eliminate temperature flexing and provides extra torsion resistance to structure. The tissue, undoped adds very little to the model weight compared to a dope/paint finish of equivalent appearance.

Monokote/orafilm is fine alone, but overall, just doesn’t compare.

And, if you still want a painted finish, you eliminate the dope and filler and primer steps. Brush scuffed film is ready for color coats over a white base.

Read the whole thread to answer just about any questions.

Tissue or silk over film saves some dope and provides the same structural and stability benefits, but ends much heavier for the same level of appearance. Who need all those layers of dope and filler?

🤠

kevin king · « **Reply #244 on:** March 15, 2024, 12:30:52 AM »

Does paint over doculam lift when pulling off tape?

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #245 on:** March 15, 2024, 05:46:00 AM »

Ok I finally found some doculam at a decent price. It comes in 1.5 and 3mm. I got the 1.5. I still can't find a source for Polyspan.

Ken

Larry Renger · « **Reply #246 on:** March 15, 2024, 07:02:17 AM »

I hope one of our readers will provide a source. Silkspan will also work just fine. One guy actually had success with gift wrap tissue.

Mike Morrow · « **Reply #247 on:** March 15, 2024, 04:19:18 PM »

Might try these guys: https://www.faimodelsupply.com/

Mike

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #248 on:** March 15, 2024, 08:01:12 PM »

Quote from: Mike Morrow on March 15, 2024, 04:19:18 PM

Might try these guys: https://www.faimodelsupply.com/

Mike

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

They have it in stock. Looks a bit light but that's OK. Price was reasonable. Now we just wait for the film and Polyspan to get here.

Ken

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #249 on:** March 15, 2024, 08:02:14 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on March 15, 2024, 08:01:12 PM

THANKS! They has it in stock. Looks a bit light but that's OK. Price was reasonable. Now we just wait for the film and Polyspan to get here.

Ken