Author Topic: SLC OVER Polyspan? (Read 58048 times)

Larry Renger · « **Reply #150 on:** April 14, 2019, 08:55:24 PM »

I have done colored parkflyer film over Polyspan with great, long lasting results.

I was wondering if anyone went the next step and applied a paint finish over the laminate? With proper scuffing of SLC, it is supposed to take paint just fine. I think I read of someone painting directly over the film without the fiber underlayer.

Input? Anyone?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #151 on:** April 15, 2019, 10:22:18 AM »

Yes, buff the SLC surface to a dull texture. No sheen anywhere you want paint.

phil c · « **Reply #152 on:** April 17, 2019, 11:57:15 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on November 26, 2014, 01:36:31 PM

Sounds like a great way to cover a model.

What I don't understand is how do you keep the overlap from showing when you paint?

Or do you do both top and bottom together?

If you take the time, seal the edges by sliding/rolling the iron across the top layer edge to really seal it down. The covering is less than 1 mil thick. very few people can reliably feel that, and only with soft, clean fingertips. Seal the edges with primer and sand the edges smooth before finishing the prime.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #153 on:** April 22, 2019, 07:31:38 AM »

The upshot of,this,is that SLC over polyspan is lighter, tougher and quicker than a dope finish. No pre doping the framework, if you use Mod Podge. Wrinkles eliminated with a hot iron.

The whole process is water based, indoor, no smell. Also, probably less expensive and way less time consuming than multiple coats of dope with proper drying time.

Color can be dyed into the tissue, or sprayed onto the back of iron on film, or the film can be the color.

If you want a conventional finish, roughen the SLC with a Scotchbrite pad before application, cover as usual (with SLC over tissue) And go directly to your base color or blocking color.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #154 on:** August 03, 2019, 08:21:07 PM »

My goodness! Over 41,000 hits on this string.

So who else besides Doc Holiday and I are actually using this process?

Speak up!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #155 on:** August 04, 2019, 04:24:11 PM »

I too am surprised not more people have tried this. Even Sandy the poodle likes the shop not having the dope smell as well as the thinners and cleaners.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #156 on:** August 05, 2019, 07:35:46 AM »

Nice job!

I also used Microlite on my Ringmaster an SkySport models.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #157 on:** November 02, 2019, 07:57:43 PM »

At the AMA EXPO, the guy in the free-flight booth was covering his model with wet tissue. It turns out to be Esaki tissue. Amazingly, it is about as light as Japanese tissue!

I plan to try it instead of Polyspan on my next model under SLC! Lighter is good!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #158 on:** February 17, 2020, 07:50:45 PM »

I blush to admit that the Klaus Kote epoxy is not adhering to the park flyer film near the fuselage of my Sky Sport. Mind you, this is after several years of flying it.

What results have the rest of you gotten painting over film?

Dave Hull · « **Reply #159 on:** February 18, 2020, 01:27:52 AM »

Larry,

When I use MonoKote over the flying surfaces and KlassKote on the fuselage, I generally try to overlap with the paint at least a 1/4". Often, I paint further over the plastic for a scallop paint job. I have not noticed any adhesion or separation problems yet. (Maybe I'd better go look closer?) Some of these paint jobs are 10+ years old now. I do prep the plastic for paint by masking my paint line, then scuffing up to it with gray Scotchbrite followed by a wipe down with alcohol. This truly gets it clean, and gives more tooth for the paint. I prefer not to use KK primer over the plastic.

Dave

PS--We were all impressed by your flight on the 1/2A on Sunday. The vertical eights had three or four of us talking....

Larry Renger · « **Reply #160 on:** July 11, 2020, 08:37:04 PM »

Anybody new trYing this? And how is it working out for you?

A local flyer has silkspan over SLC and it it OK, but not as nice as if he Had done the other way. Rough surface, and of course subject to fuel damage.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #161 on:** July 12, 2020, 12:37:35 PM »

I've finished several planes now with the new process. As an exoeriment I put super Monkote over the doc paper.. Good on wings but won't do it again on the fuse.

L0U CRANE · « **Reply #162 on:** July 12, 2020, 05:50:33 PM »

Just an odd -tangential - thought...

About 40 years ago, I did an All American, Sr., as follows. Stock wing structure (C-TUBE. plenty strong.) Clear Monokote on the wings. May have buffed the surface lightly with green Scotch-Brite (3 days old to reduce the 'cutting' surface.) Thorough wipe with straight Acetone, and care to NOT touch the surface with oily fingers before a light dusting with clear (btw, classic, i.e., pre-EPA, AeroGloss, which I miss very much!)

Wipe with isopropyl alcohol and 'no-touch' care before color coats, 'plasticized' of course - a few drops of castor per ounce. Seemed to last, not compromise the Monokote strength, and needed nothing more to make a durable, NICE finish. No edge seeping, no separations. Seemed light! No numbers on that, but back then, few if any troubled to do that.

Not so much on that AA, Sr., but noticeable on a few later planes - masking the trim was a gamble. Adhesion against normal wear and tear was fine, but lifting the masking tape off was chancy. (I learned that 'breaking' the sticking power of even low-tack mask by laying the sticky side along my forearm before applying it to the mode, helped. Did not cure it. No hair on the 'bottom' of my arms, so no pain.

)

Anyway, that AA, Sr., lasted several years, and even survived quite a bit of experimentation. E.g., tried a left-hand shaft Fox 35 (factory shaft, -then.) LH - or "pusher" props were available in many sizes, again, - then.

FYI - engine flew identically as with stock RH shaft, and was converted after many hours as stock. Only difference noted, other than punching the pavement during starting, was MUCH easier takeoffs (it didn't turn in, or droop the left wing from torque.) If tipweight were adjustable, I could have removed most, or all, of it. (Favorable torque...)

Larry Renger · « **Reply #163 on:** September 15, 2020, 05:33:42 PM »

Has anyone used this technique on a (shudder, gasp) RC model? Dare we let the DARK SIDE know?

Ara Dedekian · « **Reply #164 on:** September 15, 2020, 07:24:48 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on September 15, 2020, 05:33:42 PM

Has anyone used this technique on a (shudder, gasp) RC model? Dare we let the DARK SIDE know?

RC assist 1942 Michael LaTorre Alert. Rear Fuselage is SLC over dress shop Dacron/Rayon.

Ara

Larry Renger · « **Reply #165 on:** September 16, 2020, 08:29:29 AM »

Nice! I love the exhaust routing! No mess!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #166 on:** November 04, 2020, 05:47:51 PM »

OK, we have had a number of success stories, has anyone encountered problems and can offer solutions?

My only difficulty was inadequate prep in painting over the film and having the paint peel off. An easy fix with an Acetone wipe, proper abrasion and repaint.

Actually, also, adhesion problems for my turbo generators, they tend to pop off and get lost. (cheap, short sections of HO GAGUE plastic extrusion, so no big deal)

I have found the covering extremely resistant to damage from mistreatment (inverted landings under power on asphalt)

Also, pretty good at resisting temperature changes, though not perfect.

What is your experience?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #167 on:** November 05, 2020, 10:45:56 AM »

Only problem really is keeping APC props from poking holes. I do have one that needs refinishing as the paint(Rustoleum) is peeling off. I think the NAPA Primer is the problem.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #168 on:** January 08, 2021, 08:49:40 PM »

We are getting a lot of hits on this thread recently! I love it. But is anyone actually using the technique? And would they please show and tell here if they are?

944_Jim · « **Reply #169 on:** January 08, 2021, 09:06:00 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on July 12, 2020, 12:37:35 PM

Good on wings but won't do it again on the fuse.

I'm intrigued by this process.
Why not the fuse please?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #170 on:** January 09, 2021, 11:44:04 AM »

Yes, I have done fuselage. Go read the posts in the finishing section.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #171 on:** January 10, 2021, 08:42:40 AM »

Which post Doc? There are an awful lot of them.

Tom Luciano · « **Reply #172 on:** January 10, 2021, 03:59:27 PM »

Larry,
Is there a new source for SLC?
I didnt think Phil was getting anymore.

Tom

john e. holliday · « **Reply #173 on:** January 10, 2021, 04:36:05 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on January 10, 2021, 08:42:40 AM

Which post Doc? There are an awful lot of them.

As lazy as I am and you want me to go look. It would have to be last year or late 2019.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #174 on:** January 10, 2021, 05:59:09 PM »

I looked at the last four pages for your posts and missed seeing anything. It would have to be imbedded in another thread.

So, what was the problem with doing fuselages? We would love to know.

944_Jim · « **Reply #175 on:** January 11, 2021, 06:03:45 AM »

Gents,
I've never seen SLC. Is this a micro-thin plastic like DocLam? I ask because I am a dope and tissue guy willing to try new things. But in Mississippi, there are no resources for stuff like we use.
Thanks much!

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #176 on:** January 11, 2021, 09:59:17 AM »

Jim with exception of Hobby Lobby EVERY thing to Lampasas is mail order

Super Lite Covering was so very thin but strong clear covering heat shrink the Phil Cartier supplied with his foam wing kits and sold by the 100 foot or smaller sample length
2 or so years ago his supplier of SLC crapped out and the all the replacements he found are not quite the same, and he isn't getting any cuz the min order is way to many miles of film from what I understand

Doculam, FasCal and other heat shrink and glue film with or without backings are available from many sources...I will send you some SLC as a teaser

Larry Renger · « **Reply #177 on:** January 11, 2021, 05:54:56 PM »

Also I use the park fLyer weight iron on coverings. They come in just about any color you want. For a large model the weight penalty of standard Monokote or SOLARFILM would not be a problem, still less than a full paint finish.

We have a member in our club who is an executive in a sign/printing shop. They use two weights of laminating film for signs and documents. You could probably beg or buy some from a local shop.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #178 on:** April 28, 2021, 07:23:44 PM »

Look at “My name is my Steve … thread” for some more comments.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #179 on:** August 07, 2021, 08:42:55 PM »

Gee whizz. Over 48000 views and no one is posting photos of their experience with this technique?

Frankly, I have a guy in my club who persists in putting the film under the tissue. Looks like rough tissue as finished, not a slick finish that SLC can achieve. And heavier as he needs to dope the tissue.

Some people just won’t listen.

On the other hand, the hits to this thread just keep on coming. Are there really 48,000 of you out there?

Perry Rose · « **Reply #180 on:** August 08, 2021, 08:45:40 AM »

I saw a Ringmaster with clear covering. The bare wing structure was dyed, tinted ,painted or something else and ,of course, visible through the covering. A nice touch. One of the Ehling brothers I think.

phil c · « **Reply #181 on:** August 12, 2021, 01:47:50 PM »

If you've run out of SLC and like it you're in luck. I finally wangled a new order, posted elsewhere. It's slightly heavier, 1 il instead 0.75mil. That works out to around 1-1/4 ounce on a large size stunter instead of 1 oz.

Pricing is new, as always prices tend to go up, which they did. Since it hasn't changed I suspect most manufacturers are trying to recoup some of the losses in 2020 and early 2021. The film is also 18 in. wide, up from the previous 15in. to avoid scrap.

Sample: 10 ft x 1.5 ft, $15 plus shipping if its over $6. Shipped into a USPS mailer.
100ft x 1.5ft. $35 plus shipping- usually under $10 east of the Mississippi, max around $15 to the west coast.
200ft. x 1.5ft $70 plus shipping- usually under $25 east of the Mississippie, max around $30 to the west coast.

philcartier@earthlink.net working now, mostly. Depends on how much it gets dumped on.
phone: 1-717-566-3810 leave a message on the machine if I don't pick up.
cell: 717-798-2808 text or message- I'm still learning cell phones so this is the least reliable.

Cheers Fly Well and Often!

Phil Cartier

Larry Renger · « **Reply #182 on:** September 03, 2021, 08:15:55 AM »

[quote author=Larry Renger

Frankly, I have a guy in my club who persists in putting the film under the tissue. Looks like rough tissue as finished, not a slick finish that SLC can achieve. And heavier as he needs to dope the tissue.

Some people just won’t listen.

[/quote]

That model is about a year old and the finish is really degraded. My Ringmaster and SkySport models are still bright and shiney after up to 5 years of flying.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #183 on:** September 03, 2021, 10:43:11 AM »

No matter the base covering, silk, ply-span, poly ester, silk span, the top covering of slc or mylar makes for a stronger finish and cleans up a lot easier. I'm sold on it.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #184 on:** September 03, 2021, 04:25:22 PM »

Thanks Doc!

For anything but a front row Nats finish (incredible amount of work) why hasn’t this caught on as standard practice? Cheap (priced dope recently?) and incredibly easy and unbelievably durable.

The finish, being a slick mylar surface, cleans up easier than a basic dope finish. And it is way lighter than a dope finish of equivalent quality. Also, absolutely no fuel residue degradation of the finish, none, nada, nicht, nein, non, nothing, ninguno!

Plus it adds lots of durability to the airframe since it forms a composite shell structure on the wing. Trust me I have unfortunately had occasion to test this.

What’s not to like?

Gene Pape · « **Reply #185 on:** December 19, 2021, 10:25:14 AM »

Sorry, I didn't discover this thread until a few days ago. I've done some experimenting with laminating film (SLC is thin polyester laminating film) over tissue. This Sneeker was covered with exam table paper attached with thinned white glue using gift wrap attached with spray adhesive as trim then 1.5 mil laminating film over the top. See more about laminating film in general for covering models at http://flyinglines.org/gp.col18.html .

bill bischoff · « **Reply #186 on:** December 19, 2021, 01:07:49 PM »

I have used SLC over silkspan on foam wings, with dope and epoxy finishes. I have used Polyspan over built up wings with both finishes. Today was the first time I used Polyspan/ Mod-Podge/ SLC on a built up wing. It worked great. It was very easy, and unlike doped-down Polyspan, you can heat and stretch around wingtips to get them perfect.

I didn't find a lot of details about the Mod-Podge application, but then I didn't look terribly hard. I used the gloss Mod-Podge with the orange and white label. I applied two coats in a single session, straight from the bottle, with a 2" foam brush. I let it dry for about 12 hours. I ironed the Polyspan down at 300 degrees (with a sock on the iron). I trimmed the edges with no overlap, since any overlap would require additional Mod-Podge to stick down. Then I applied the SLC at the same temperature, and left 1/4"- 3/8" overlapping seams. The entire wing will get scuffed, then sprayed with Klass-Kote for color and seam sealing.

One question or comment I have for others who have done this. The surface of the Polyspan is a bit fuzzy (yes, I know about the smooth side vs. fuzzy side) and imparts a texture to the SLC, but only over the solid areas. Too much heat, not enough, too much Mod-Podge? Any ideas? I tried test pieces with only a single coat of Mod-Podge, but wasn't satisfied with the adhesion. Regardless, I will certainly be using this covering method again in the future.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #187 on:** December 20, 2021, 03:02:50 PM »

I wanted to know if the Mod Podge will stick the Polyspan to a undercambered airfoil ? Do I use the Mod Podge directly out of the bottle? It seems quite thick.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #188 on:** December 20, 2021, 04:56:50 PM »

Larry,
I like the approach to get a composite covering. Do you or have or anyone tried using this technique with Monokote or Ultracoat as the top cover to give it color? Should work about the same as the SLC and save more weight over paints that will stick to the plastic cover. I think the poly would give the Kotes the rigidity that they lack and still give a pretty good looking and light finish.

I re-read the early posts to this thread and see that the Mono and Ultra kotes have been done. I am interested to keep weight down. I'm thinking the lighter Econo kote weight film might work really well with this approach. I want to use this over sheet surfaces so not sure what to adhere the polyspan then the kote on top. I'm thinking that the poly could be adhered with one coat of Balsarite for film then iron on the film over it.

Best, DennisT

john e. holliday · « **Reply #189 on:** December 20, 2021, 07:15:11 PM »

Yes, I have done the MonoKote over the doc paper. Makes for a strong surface. Remember not to seal the open bays of doc paper.

944_Jim · « **Reply #190 on:** December 20, 2021, 08:26:52 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on August 07, 2021, 08:42:55 PM

On the other hand, the hits to this thread just keep on coming. Are there really 48,000 of you out there?

Nope, I just keep coming back to it a bunch! Tomorrow will be 48,001.

Mr. Doc,
Why leave the open bays unsealed? I would think the SLC adhesive would stick easier to a sealed/sanded smooth surface vs a porous one. Or does the adhesive melt into the paper? Weight minimizing?
Thanks much.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #191 on:** December 21, 2021, 09:19:21 AM »

MM/Larry,
Do you shrink the polyspan tight before applying the film then shrink the film? How do you get the film to adhere to the polyspan over the open bay section without bubbles? Iron, heat gun with soft glove??

For me the only reason to use the color film over the polyspan is to improve rigidity of the structure and get color without needing to paint. From what was posted early in this thread it should work. I will be trying it on flat sheet. In the past I have done 1/2oz fiberglass adhered with Balsarite for film then MonoKote over. This worked very well but I think the polyspan with the heat shrink ability will get a very smooth substrate for the Kote to adhere to. Using the light films should keep the weight down and still give a nice finish for the model.

Best, DennisT

bill bischoff · « **Reply #192 on:** December 21, 2021, 10:00:12 AM »

Yes, shrink the polyspan first. Since the polyspan hasn't been sealed with anything, it is porous. Air can't be trapped. The film can be ironed down over the open bays with light pressure. The biggest advantages for painted SLC instead of 'kote is the ability to have any color or colors you desire, and also the paint permanently seals the seams for maximum longevity of the model. If neither of these is important to your particular project, then 'kote away!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #193 on:** December 22, 2021, 10:58:18 AM »

Very important to leave the polyspan unsealed so you don’t trap air under the film.

I used lightweight Polyspan and park flyer lightweigh film on a Ringmaster. 5 years old and still looks great.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #194 on:** December 22, 2021, 04:42:58 PM »

Phil Cartier of CoreHouse used to be the source. I don't know what he is selling now> You might check with him.

944_Jim · « **Reply #195 on:** December 22, 2021, 05:05:40 PM »

Mr. Bill/Mr. Larry,
Bubble reduction...Thanks. That makes sense.

48,006...chuckles!

phil c · « **Reply #196 on:** January 04, 2022, 05:33:49 PM »

Quote from: Doug Burright on February 18, 2015, 11:06:12 PM

Larry,

So, just what the heck IS SLC, and where do we get it?
I know the process for silkspan and dope, etc., but what is the SLC?
I would be more than happy to put a lighter, stronger finish on the airplane, but have no idea what the SLC is.
Please explain.
Thanks,
Doug.

Hi Doug,
Happy New Year Doug, and a belated Christmas !!

You can get SLC from me, Phil Cartier. The newest stuff was a cast iron bxxxx to get. So I ordered the company's minimum. I wasn't going to buy a car anyway.

SLC is 1 mil(.001in) thick 0olyester film and stronger that the previous film. It uses the same adhesive which will stick to most surfaces with moderate heat. The temp is low enough to go directly on foam plastics. wood, paints, etc.

It comes 18in. wide at no extra cost. A sample, ~10ft long is $15, shipped USPS in the cont,US. The "Small" roll is 100 ft. Cost is $35 plus shipping- usually less than $10 except to some areas along the West Coast. The "Large" roll is 200ft. $70 plus shipping. The extra weight cost a bit more $15 or so.

I'd prefer phone orders- 717-566-3810 to Hummelstown PA. 34 Sweet Arrow Dr. Zip 17036. Paymet by check or money order. I can send Total cost and shipping to email address or via phone or a message here.

I've had a lot of problems for quite a while with PayPal. They've changed the workflow all over the site, apparently are starting "dues", and are extremely hard to get any useful help from them.

Ara Dedekian · « **Reply #197 on:** March 15, 2022, 07:56:19 PM »

Thought I'd try this out on a free flight wing. Took a Guillow Arrow wing and covered it with orange gift wrap tissue, painted some flashes and covered it with .0015" laminating film we used to cover Combat planes with (Medium Light Covering?). With the beefy wood in Guillow kits, the shrinking didn't warp the wing. Used the wing on both a free flight and RC plane. Both flew well. The wing gained 4.4 grams (.16 oz) with the addition of the MLC. Don't know how much weight gain would have resulted with dope.

Ara

Larry Renger · « **Reply #198 on:** September 07, 2022, 04:38:57 AM »

How is the covering holding up?

Ara Dedekian · « **Reply #199 on:** September 07, 2022, 09:34:25 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on September 07, 2022, 04:38:57 AM

How is the covering holding up?

Hello Larry,

The SLC covering has held up very well. I flew the wing on the RC plane throughout the summer and it hasn't delaminated or blistered. It looks like I just put it on.

Ara