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Author Topic: SLC OVER Polyspan?  (Read 46600 times)

Online Motorman

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #100 on: July 24, 2016, 10:03:38 AM »
Fred check out Coverite Microlite, it comes in colors. If your silk comes out really tight you could coat it dry.
Remove victim to fresh air


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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #101 on: August 14, 2016, 12:43:50 AM »
Today it was over 90 deg. out, and still no hint of slackness or wrinkles in the covering. The plane was left in full sun, not hidden in the tree shade at Whittier Narrows. ;D

That is at least 6 days in the sun, now.

Oh, btw I scored 444.5 in Old Time. That's the good news. The bad news is that was only good enough for fourth.  HB~>
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #102 on: September 22, 2016, 05:00:40 PM »
Nearly 18,000 views and two guys have tried it? What is so hard? Buid a Brodak 1/2 A ARF Clown and try it out.

A: It is a fun plane to own. ( Cox, Norvel, Brodak and AP Wasp all fit, saw off the nose and add a firewall for Cox reed engines, surely you have ONE of the above?)

B: It is quick and cheap. 35 ft Spiderwire lines and an 1/8" ply handle with 2" line spacing certainly won't break the budget.

C: If it sucks,you can strip it easily and do something else. Not like 6 months doping and polishing for appearance points were at stake.

Come on, where is your sense of adventure?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Vincent Judd

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #103 on: October 01, 2016, 08:45:49 AM »
I wanted to try this on the fuselage of my new Crossfire.  I'm just wondering, since it's all balsa, no open bays like a wing surface, do I gain anything by using the Polyspan under the SLC covering or can I just use the SLC and then paint it?  Thinking about the weight savings by just going with the SLC.

Thanks

Offline jfv

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2016, 10:11:10 AM »
Although I posted a photo of my finished Berekely Lancer in the Build Section, I thought I'd also post it here.  Wing is finished with SLC over polyspan.  It came out beautiful.  I'm really getting to like this method for my sport planes with open bay wings.  Fuse and tail feathers were painted with Duplicolor Paint Shop and cleared with 2 part auto. 
Jim Vigani

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #105 on: October 02, 2016, 07:02:09 AM »
WOW! Nice.  y1

I think just SLC alone on solid wood parts is all you need.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Vincent Judd

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #106 on: October 02, 2016, 09:59:07 AM »
Although I posted a photo of my finished Berekely Lancer in the Build Section, I thought I'd also post it here.  Wing is finished with SLC over polyspan.  It came out beautiful.  I'm really getting to like this method for my sport planes with open bay wings.  Fuse and tail feathers were painted with Duplicolor Paint Shop and cleared with 2 part auto. 

That is a beautiful finish.  Can you give more detail as to how you achieved it?  How did you prep the fuse and tail feathers?  Which 2 part auto clear did you use?

Thanks,

Vince

Offline jfv

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #107 on: October 03, 2016, 04:30:27 PM »
Vince:

Fuselage and tail feathers were finished with nitrate, carbon veil, then several coats of Eze-kote finishing resin (http://www.horizonhobby.com/eze-kote-finishing-resin--500-ml-dlmbd37) followed by Duplicolor rattle can gray primer.  Color was Dupli-Color Paint Shop lacquer paint then the 2 part auto clear coat.  Clear is ACL-7200-5L by Axis performance coatings.

The Eze-kote is similar to water-based poly but cures much faster and sands very nicely.   
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 06:10:52 PM by jfv »
Jim Vigani

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #108 on: November 17, 2016, 11:31:23 PM »
 How did you do the decals? That is a great looking model!

What prep did you do for the paint over SLC?  ???
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2016, 08:34:34 AM »
Although I posted a photo of my finished Berekely Lancer in the Build Section, I thought I'd also post it here.  Wing is finished with SLC over polyspan.  It came out beautiful.  I'm really getting to like this method for my sport planes with open bay wings.  Fuse and tail feathers were painted with Duplicolor Paint Shop and cleared with 2 part auto. 

Omg that looks amazing!

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2016, 09:10:15 AM »
Yes it does...

I usually hate cloth hinges but those blended in very well

Starting to get enough dry air days here to try my hand at a SLC over silk or poly wing

This Lancer inspired me to get things set up
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline jfv

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #111 on: November 18, 2016, 07:08:02 PM »
Decal was made on my vinyl cutter.  Scanned the image, traced it in AutoCad, then cut it out with the cutter.  It's all about the tools you know!
Jim Vigani

Offline jfv

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2016, 07:12:09 PM »
Although you can paint directly over the SLC, I didn't want a ridge where the SLC ended so I covered the portion I was going to paint with carbon veil adhered with Eze-Kote.
Jim Vigani

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #113 on: November 19, 2016, 08:37:10 PM »
Ummmm, did you then sand a taper down to the SLC surface? I am not clear on the exact process. It looks like you have a winner, though. Please detail it out step by step for those of us of feeble brain (see Winnie thr Poo for reference). I want my next one to look that good!  #^
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline jfv

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #114 on: November 21, 2016, 10:48:44 AM »
Applied the CF veil, then several coats of Eze-kote, sanding between coats until smooth.  Primed with DC-540 primer with the rest of the parts to be painted, then color coats.  The ridge between the painted surface and the clear SLC film is at the red pinstripe line and not very noticeable.
Jim Vigani

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #115 on: December 30, 2016, 01:13:34 PM »
What is EZ-Kote? I never heard of it.  ???
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #116 on: December 30, 2016, 05:17:29 PM »
What is EZ-Kote? I never heard of it.  ???

https://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/gb/rc-modelling/82-eze-kote-5060243900746.html

It's a pretty cool water based finishing resin.  It is not like Minwax Polycrylic.  The viscosity is thicker and it dries quite rapidly.  Sands well too.  It smells totally different from polycrylic, also.

There are some good videos of it in use on youtube. 
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #117 on: January 09, 2017, 03:15:40 PM »
I see that Horizon Hobby is a distributor, which implies that virtually any LHS should be able to get this stuff, or we can order direct from HH. So, I assume that Brent has used this stuff already? Has Gordy D. or Norm W. tried it? I noticed that they said "fuel resistant" and that does concern me a bit. I'd prefer "impervious", ya know!  ~> Steve
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #118 on: March 27, 2017, 08:22:51 PM »
My Ringmaster is now over a year old and still sag free!  :)! No hangar rash or noticeable damage from two (count them, two) inverted landings on asphalt. (Note that I am Designman, not Pilotman)  LL~
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #119 on: March 28, 2017, 11:10:12 AM »
Well Larry, I haven't had a chance to try out my planes with the dopeless finish. 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #120 on: March 28, 2017, 09:48:22 PM »
And you continue to live in a climate like that??? Well, The Peoples' Republic of Califonikstan is crowded enough, but there is lots of room left near Tucson. Trostle left a magnificent house there.  <=
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Jim Roselle

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #121 on: May 13, 2017, 08:42:49 AM »
Larry,

I'm getting ready to try monokote over polyspan. Do you dope the poly to individual ribs or just leading/trailing edge, tips, and center section?

 Jim

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #122 on: May 13, 2017, 09:55:35 AM »
Jim... just a butt inski here...but WHY?

Maybe I am not paying close enough attention

BUT--- I thought the exercise was to do a Fast and very Strong covering method--- USING poly/tissue/silk and then--- one of the super lite plastic coverings Like SLC, or thin FasCal/ mica film

IMO MonoKote---  or similar--- has already all the strength and color needed by it self

That said...I think the initial covering (tissue/poly span/silkspan/silk) is put on traditionally nice and tight on the perimeter and only ever needs stuck down to the ribs on a polywog rid set like a Ringmaster....all other rib types should be left free so the SLC/////ect,...can shrink and stick to the first covering without adding torque to the ribs or balsa wing

I use a lot of Poly span and silk on wings.

I think Larry Renger found a way for US to NOT have to add weight with Dope and Use the Lite coverings  (SLC/Doculam/FadCal) as the shiny top cote and the added benefit ...by accident...was that the composite of the two coverings saved time, looked good...and structurally was tougher than traditional method using dope to fill the paper/tissue/cloth

Bottom line is...IMO MonoKote covering does all this by itself.... But that said--- no MonoKote can look or be as strong as a traditional silk n dope method or Larry Rengers discovery method

EDITED in after sending...Jim I DO NOT intend this to sound as harsh or judgement as it does....

Just curious how you arrived at following this method to think about using MonoKote over something else.... mostly because early on, I GOT the notion Larry was trying to show four things...Light weight, faster, looks good, stronger (an accidental by product IMO)

And BTW
NOT TO take away from Larry-- But I think Bobby Mears, INDEPENDENTLY--- found a very similar method so he could rapidly finish dozens of Nostalgia combat planes for the Combat Museum...IIRK He experimentee with fogging the back side of SLC/FasCal/Doculam with paints to simulate the Silk n Dope finish and found it was just as easy to do a polyspan heat shrunk and then the plastic and looked just like a silk n dope finish
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Jim Roselle

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #123 on: May 13, 2017, 12:59:56 PM »
Fred,

I want to try this for three reasons.

 1. Primarily I'm hoping that by creating a composite covering that bonds together as it shrinks I can avoid the dreaded monokote sag that happens in the Arizona sun.

 2. It seems like a great way to add strength with minimal weight gain and minimal additional time.

 3. I'm always up for experimenting with new techniques.

Jim

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #124 on: May 13, 2017, 01:55:06 PM »
Fully understand Jim....you are trading strength and durability for tightness and accepting the weight gain...

I might recommend Move on to Ultra kote as I think it holds it's tension better long term...I am in Texas with 130~150F on a 104F OAT day in the car is typical and the loosening of my films....all of them...is always an issue


OTOH I have read here that some think UltrKote is looser over time....not my personal experience but I only have 5 years experience/history to go by
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #125 on: May 14, 2017, 08:50:38 PM »
Jim, if you want color go browse the posts I have made using poly-ester cloth(from Jo-Anns Frabrics) and the clear mylar(SLC). 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #126 on: May 17, 2017, 12:30:30 PM »
Doping the ribs to smooth them out is good. Bonding the Polyspan to the ribs (when first covering) is bad because you want the material to slide around as it shrinks. Once shrunk, if you seal to the ribs using thinner would probably be OK and might improve torsional strength.  Do NOT dope the entire fabric covering as it adds weight and creates bubble areas in the top covering.

Old free-flighters may remember double covering large models. Silkspan lightly doped with an overlay of Japanese tissue bonded down to it. Easy to get a slick finish and remarkably strong.

For large models, Monokote over Polyspan would still be lighter than a conventional dope finish, easier, quicker, slicker (than I can do, anyway) and way stronger.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #127 on: July 03, 2017, 03:07:48 AM »
I finally completed the re-build of my Sky Sport 1/2A (well, .061) stunter. The wing is the original, everything else is new.

Covering is lightweight Polyspan with park flyer type film applied over it. The Polyspan was attached with Mod Podge adhesive and the film has its own heat activated adhesive, so no dope was harmed in covering the wings.

Fuselage and tail are Klasskote epoxy.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline jfv

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #128 on: July 03, 2017, 07:59:21 AM »
Very nice.  I like the transparent color.
Jim Vigani

Offline PaulGibeault

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #129 on: August 08, 2017, 12:05:08 AM »
Following along Larry Renger's simple instructions I covered 2 old Vintage kits. I haven't covered an open bay model for over 25 years. Piece of cake!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #130 on: August 08, 2017, 10:33:21 AM »
I am finishing up two more models per Larry's method.  Have also flown the ones I have finished.   Makes for quick finishes that shine.   Also easy to wipe clean.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #131 on: August 16, 2017, 09:04:46 PM »
Paul G. built those models for his wife to learn on. So far the covering has proven more durable than other parts of the models.  LL~
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #132 on: November 02, 2017, 11:53:46 AM »
Hoooee! 32,000 + views!  ;D

 There aren't that many CL fliers, are there?  ???
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #133 on: November 02, 2017, 12:33:12 PM »
Crap Larry.. I bet I am about 500 of those 32000 views....grin

I found i interesting in another thread on MonoKote that the very early instructions suggested/recommended the $Kote film OVER silk-span


"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #134 on: November 02, 2017, 08:56:39 PM »
It works fantastic!  The weight, by an actual test sample, is 1.46 oz/sq.yard.  The structural rigidity it adds is amazing.  I have some technique to work on as far as flawless tips, but the ones I did aren't horrible.

Now I need to work on how to properly paint it.  I have a sample piece drying. It is Painters' Choice right on the steel wool buffed SLC.

Larry,
Works like a champ doesn't it?  Next time add some trim to the plyspan before covering it with SLC.  Use a spray adhesive and very lightly spray the back of the trim.  Stay away from the trim 3 feet and spray above it and allow the adhesive to lightly fall onto the trim.  Place the trim on the plyspan and lightly rub the trim in place (do not apply dope to the trim).  The SLC will hold the trim in place when ironed on.

Later,
Mikey

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #135 on: November 02, 2017, 10:14:38 PM »
Great idea on the trim! Thanks Mike. Probably could do trim Moneykote, vinyl, or just about anything. Magic markers, anyone?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Ara Dedekian

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #136 on: February 25, 2018, 10:41:35 PM »


        Rebuilt an old silkspan covered Scorpion fast combat and covered it with SLC over Dacron. I used John Holiday's Mod Podge system to iron down the Dacron then used it to recoat the leading, trailing and tip edges for a belt and suspenders approach to ironing the SLC on. The yellow paint is an anxient can of Formula-U over sprayed with green RC car paint. The urethane stuck to the SLC quite well but don't have much hope for the  'candy' accent.

        Ara

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #137 on: February 26, 2018, 11:06:35 AM »
Just don't let the raw fuel sit on the graphics too long.   Plane looks great. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #138 on: August 11, 2018, 04:59:53 PM »
Several years and a couple of trips to Tucson later, the Ringmaster still looks pretty good. Anyone else have information on how well this technique stands up to the ravages of time?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Online Motorman

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #139 on: August 11, 2018, 05:12:21 PM »
My white Thundergazer is still perfect.
Remove victim to fresh air

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #140 on: August 12, 2018, 11:53:59 AM »
Larry I basically no longe fly so my Fleet are all now you basic hanger queens hoping my progeny will some day fly again

I have several RST foam wing with SLC....flown and castor slime many times...cleaned and in flyable condition

I have two balsa wings, Ring master, and a Magician Poly-span adhered with dope then heat shrink, then SLC from Phil...NO fill in dope...strong, no sag, look pretty good for my 5 meter stand off grading......grin...

I bet when I crap out ...my son, just for pure nostalgia will de gum the engine..and fly the sucker into a perfect Figure Nine....Just as I did reliving the adventures of my father and me for 1958
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #141 on: September 13, 2018, 11:25:42 AM »
Hi Guy's,
I had a real problem covering my new P-Force XL.  I applied the red plyspan tissue to the model, then covered the model with the SLC and it looked AWESOME.  I manage to stick the end of the inboard wing into a running overhead ceiling fan and destroyed the wing tip, leading edge sheeting, and three of the wing ribs.  When I was inspecting the damage I noticed the tissue under the SCL wasn't attached to the cap strips.  It may have been good enough but I wasn't happy with it at all. 

After stripping the wing and repairing the damage area, I opted for UltraCoat covering to finish up the model.  On my next model I'll apply a few coats of Stix-it to the capstrips and cover it using plyspan tissue and after applying the SLC, I'll rub the SLC to each of the wing cap strips with an iron.  This should attach the plyspan and the SCL to each of the wing ribs and greatly increase the strength of the wing covering.

Later,
Mikey

Offline jfv

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #142 on: September 13, 2018, 11:43:28 AM »
I use Baslarite on the rib edges when I cover with the Polyspan just for the reason you mentioned.  No issues doing it that way.
Jim Vigani

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #143 on: September 13, 2018, 08:38:12 PM »
I don't recommend doping the poly-span/silk span to the ribs.   I do shrink it before putting the clear mylar/SLC on.   so far the covering has stayed tight and several places it looked like some thing tried to poke holes in it.  A pass with the iron and all is good.  Latest plane still looks good and is the one I'm building a stooge for.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #144 on: September 25, 2018, 04:22:26 PM »
I have recently been experimenting with turbulators (or vortex generators). I find that I must sand the film with 600 grit then clean it with lacquer thinner or acetone before bonding the generators in place. Otherwise, they eventually pop off.  HB~>

Sand carefully, that film is THIN!  n1
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline jfv

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #145 on: September 26, 2018, 07:39:49 AM »
Here's my latest build using SLC over Polyspan.  I really like using this method for these type planes.  Saves tons of time and looks great.  The "Able" is one of my original designs from 1960 when I was in high school.  Flew it at the Vintage Combat Festival last Sunday.
Jim Vigani

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #146 on: September 26, 2018, 10:26:13 AM »
Looks great.  Do you have plans.  Also you should do an article and publish it. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline jfv

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #147 on: September 26, 2018, 10:53:57 AM »
Thanks, Doc.  It flies great.  Yes, I have the plans.  Here's a copy.
Jim Vigani

Offline Frank Imbriaco

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #148 on: September 26, 2018, 05:32:06 PM »
Jim's ship is really very, very nice.
I especially like the tail feathers.
Saw it fly at the Vintage Combat Festival and it was very impressive.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: SLC OVER Polyspan?
« Reply #149 on: September 27, 2018, 09:38:25 AM »
Thanks, now to head for Staples. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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