News:



  • April 27, 2024, 11:04:31 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well  (Read 1387 times)

Offline John Paris

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« on: November 08, 2009, 07:00:45 PM »
Finishing Gurus,
I am working on an airplane that I am trying Polyspan® on and decided to stop it at the tips.  Initially I tried silkspan for the tips but did not get a result that I thought I would be happy with, so tried some silk that I had left over from a different project.  In any case, I was able to get the silk to go onto the tips without any problems or wrinkles, but after a couple of coats of Brodak clear, which I think is low shrink, I started to develop some large wrinkles.  I think that I have about 6 coats on it now and the weave is filled, but the wrinkles are still there.  Any advice?  I have some Sig Supercoat that I thought would make quick work of the wrinkles (planned on using Brodak thinner to keep at least one thing constant) but thought I would ask here for some input.
Thanks,
John
John Paris
269

Offline billbyles

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 648
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2009, 07:45:55 PM »
Finishing Gurus,
I am working on an airplane that I am trying Polyspan® on and decided to stop it at the tips.  Initially I tried silkspan for the tips but did not get a result that I thought I would be happy with, so tried some silk that I had left over from a different project.  In any case, I was able to get the silk to go onto the tips without any problems or wrinkles, but after a couple of coats of Brodak clear, which I think is low shrink, I started to develop some large wrinkles.  I think that I have about 6 coats on it now and the weave is filled, but the wrinkles are still there.  Any advice?  I have some Sig Supercoat that I thought would make quick work of the wrinkles (planned on using Brodak thinner to keep at least one thing constant) but thought I would ask here for some input.
Thanks,
John

Hi John,

The problem is that the first coat of dope on something as small as a wingtip must be the tautening type dope.  The reason that the first coat (and actually the first three or so coats) has to be tautening type is that in order to shrink the silk the dope has to encapsulate the silk weave; it will then shrink just fine.  I doubt that putting tautening type dope on over six coats of non-tautening type dope will shrink it.  You may want to try it, but if it were mine I would re-cover the tips and start with the Sig Supercoat tautening type dope.

Bill
Bill Byles
AMA 20913
So. Cal.

Offline Neville Legg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 593
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2009, 10:56:14 AM »
You might want to try a solarfilm iron on your silked tips before you rip it off and recover them! Start at a low temp. and work up the heat. I've removed wrinkles from doped tissued wing tips using this method.

Cheers        Neville
"I think, therefore I have problems"

(not) Descartes

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22773
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2009, 12:07:20 PM »
I have had silk & polyspan start showing wrinkles after about half dozen coats of dope.  I was after I put on the butyrate clear that the covering got drum tight.  If it is silk the heat will not shrink it from my experience.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Richard Grogan

  • AMA Member 85745 Stunt Hangar
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1374
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2009, 12:56:15 PM »
John,
Before you rip it all off, hit it with a heatgun using continuous motion.Use the fan nozzle on the heatgun for better control of the heat pattern.Won't hurt anything and doesn't cost anything to try. I've had variable luck doing it.

Once upon a time I had this problem,so I softened the dry dope up with another very thinned(more thinner) coat, then used low heat to dry/ shrink the tip.Just be careful to not heat the thinned coat to high on heat trying this method!

my .01 werth...
Long Live the CL Crowd!

                  AMA 85745

Offline Randy Ryan

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1767
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2009, 04:21:27 PM »
John,

I've used heat on silk with some success but not great. I'd try the high shrink dope first, a couple heavy coats won't hurt on just the tips. Then let it cure for a few days and see what happens, my bet is it'll tighten up for you.
Randy Ryan <><
AMA 8500
SAM 36 BO all my own M's

Offline Mike Haverly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New Pilot
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2009, 10:09:58 PM »
John, did you switch to silk or silkspan to do the tips and why did you give up on the Polyspan?  This is a picture of the cowl for my new PA model covered with one piece of Polyspan.  It really isn't that hard.  (read that easy)  The trick is to use nitrate to seal the balsa, about four coats and sand smooth.  The process from there is pretty much the same as Monocote only easier.  Tack around the edges and use an iron, NOT A GUN!  The nitrate acts just like glue allowing you to glue the polyspan in the compound curves.  This is the first time I have tried this but I've done many wing tips.  Challenge yourself, it only takes a little practice.

Offline Gene O'Keefe

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 557
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2009, 02:56:07 PM »
John - just an additional thought ...did you ahve the grain of the silk going horizontal (wingspan wise -- the correct way) or vertical (leading edge to trailing edge -- the wrong way) - that could account for the wrinkles. If the wrong way, I'd remove it & put it on spanwise and use Sig Supercoat.  JMHO

  Geno
Gene O'Keefe
AMA 28386

Offline John Paris

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2009, 07:58:47 PM »
Gene,
I am embarassed to say that I did not look at the grain.  I had one direction that was as wide as the tip so I cut it accordingly.  Perhaps one of these days I will remember to look before I cut.

Mike,
I was talking with another flyer in the area today and he asked why I did not finish with the polyspan.  I guess on my next project I will have to give it a shot.  Currently I have a bunch of Sig Nitrate.  Do you think I could get away with using it and Brodak thinner if my top layers are going to be Brodak?

Randy,
I have the Sig Supercoat on there now and it is pulling it tighter.  Since I know that it takes a little longer than the Brodak dopes to gas off, I might need to wait a few more days before I make the final call. 

Richard,
I tried the heat gun and it does seem to tighten up the silk as you pass over it.  However, when the whole things cools off, the silk actually seems a little bit looser.  Generally letting it dry and stabilize over night brings it back to a semi-taught condition.  As I mentioned to Gene, I did not take a good look at the grain of the silk before applying and may have not put it on properly.

Everyone,
I will keep you all up to date on how this project works out.  The woods are calling and I will need to go sit and be very quiet for a few days, but then I will have a bit of time off to keep working on this.  Thanks for all of your advice so far.
John
John Paris
269

Online Howard Rush

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7812
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2009, 01:53:36 AM »
I had the same experience and put some Sig over the Brodak.  It got better, but not perfect.  But by the time you read this, you'll be back from the woods and can see whether the Sig did the trick.  I tried the heat also to no avail.

Pete Peterson is the Master of Polyspan.  Before I cover my next plane, I shall sit at his feet and gain his wisdom.  On second thought, I don't need to sit as his feet.  I only come up to about his knees when I'm standing. 
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline John Paris

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 08:14:32 PM »
I had the same experience and put some Sig over the Brodak.  It got better, but not perfect.  But by the time you read this, you'll be back from the woods and can see whether the Sig did the trick.  I tried the heat also to no avail.

Pete Peterson is the Master of Polyspan.  Before I cover my next plane, I shall sit at his feet and gain his wisdom.  On second thought, I don't need to sit as his feet.  I only come up to about his knees when I'm standing. 

Howard,
It got better, but not perfect.  This is an OTS airplane so I am not too concerned about a perfect finish, but I should do better on the next one.
John
John Paris
269

Offline Mike Gretz

  • ACE
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 214
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2009, 06:08:34 AM »
So John .. did anybody come to visit you in the woods?
Mike

Alan Hahn

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2009, 08:08:34 AM »
John,
As I recall, my Sig Nitrate can says NOT to use it on silk over open bays--but to use Sig SuperCote Clear as it shrinks more.

Read the label n1

Offline John Paris

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2009, 09:41:22 AM »
So John .. did anybody come to visit you in the woods?
Mike

Mike,
I saw a few running on a ridge about 200 yards away but that was about it.  I could not have asked for better weather though.  There is always either next time or next year.
John
John Paris
269

Offline John Paris

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: Silk on the tips, not shrinking up well
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2009, 09:46:03 AM »
John,
As I recall, my Sig Nitrate can says NOT to use it on silk over open bays--but to use Sig SuperCote Clear as it shrinks more.

Read the label n1

Alan,
I used Brodak Clear over the silk as it looked fairly tight after I applied it.  I do know that it is low shrink, probably similar to Sig's Lite Coat but I thought I was going to be okay with the base silk being fairly tight.  I think that I will use the Sig as the base filler coats for the material coverings in the future.  The tips are looking okay, but I will certainly pay attention to the silk grain and use the Sig Supercoat on the next one.  Currently I have some Nitrate, but have not used it much as either a base or to attach material to the airplane.  There is this Super Chipmunk on the list of things to do though.........Perhaps I can try it out on that one.
John
John Paris
269


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here