Author Topic: Silk (Read 1828 times)

John Tomlin · « **on:** January 10, 2010, 12:37:33 PM »

I have been building and flying for over 30 years and I am covering with silk for the first time. Have used silk span the whole duration of being in the hobby. For the life of me I cannot tell on silk which way the grain runs. I keep reading that one must run it span wise but how the heck do you tell that. I have cut the ends and they both look the same. I have one wing panel covered and it is tight thus far. Haven't applied any dope yet, so I will see if it's right. Please help!!!!!!!

John

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2010, 12:51:12 PM »

With the very thin Esaki-type silk, you can see the grain. I have no experience with the Thai silk most use nowdays.

Gene O'Keefe · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2010, 07:58:54 AM »

I sometimes use my wife's pinking shears (gives a seesaw triangular look to the ends) and ruffle the edges and it is quite easy to see the grain.

Geno

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2010, 09:23:58 AM »

John,

The grain of the silk runs in the direction it came off the bolt, you should be able to tell by looking at the edges. The "mill" edges run down both sides of the bolt, it is finished looking. The grain runs parallel to these edges.

John Tomlin · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2010, 10:20:38 AM »

Thanks, that is how I put it on and it seems to be working o.k. I haven't doped it yet, but I got it plenty tight. I did notice while trying to figure this out, if you pull on it with the grain it tends to pull straight. If you pull across the grain, it tends to bunch up.

Thanks again,

John

John Tomlin · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2010, 06:53:54 PM »

Thanks Ty. I think I will spray on light coats till it seals to prevent puddling. Give me a brand of brush. The first one I used was camel hair 3/4 inch and the set was about 20 bucks. The hairs came out with ever stroke. Then I bought some pretty expensive synthetic ($14 each) that are not nearly as soft as the camel hair but no hair. I have tried to attach a photo. Hope it turns out.

John

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2010, 06:18:44 AM »

Quote from: John Tomlin on January 11, 2010, 06:53:54 PM

Thanks Ty. I think I will spray on light coats till it seals to prevent puddling. Give me a brand of brush. The first one I used was camel hair 3/4 inch and the set was about 20 bucks. The hairs came out with ever stroke. Then I bought some pretty expensive synthetic ($14 each) that are not nearly as soft as the camel hair but no hair. I have tried to attach a photo. Hope it turns out.

John

You'll have to put ALLOT of dope on spraying it, it'll shoot right through the weave and end up as dead weight inside. I have good luck brushing silk, but I use 1" and sometimes on really big stuff 1 1/2" brushes. I move fast and have the dope thinned roughly by 33% out of the can. I work with the tips of the bristles and keep the brush moving. You want to do the old fill the screen trick like whne we were kids, bridging all the openings but not pushing it through. I never have worked over my head though I know allot of guys that do that with excellent results. I think my arms would fall off doing it. YOu're silk job looks great so far. By the way you still may experoience some loosening when you dope it. Don't worry about it, using butyrate it will shrink right up tight again.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:31:37 AM »

I think every one has there own way of doping the open areas. I thin my dope about 65% so that if it does run through, it will not be enough to make blobs. It does take more coats, but I never have a problem with blobs next to edges where the dope seems to rub of the brush. It also helps to brush away from the edges. Three to four coats will seal Dharma silk as the thinned dope goes on without any brush pressure pushing the dope through the weeve. The very thin dope also helps to remove the blushing that you get from applying the silk wet. Someone said years ago, that the most important thing about covering with silk, is to not rush it. If you take your time silk is very forgiving and makes a beautiful finish. Just my 2 cents.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2010, 09:59:32 AM »

"This of course ruins any excitement."

There'll always be some "excitment" in a first ever silk job Ty!!!

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2010, 10:09:06 AM »

I do it like Jim Kraft said. The thing with silk is to do it perfect. Take your time and get the weave straight, etc. I put silk on very wet. You want the wood well doped or you will get to the stage of having the open bays shiny and the weave showing through on the wood.

Neville Legg · « **Reply #10 on:** January 12, 2010, 02:41:05 PM »

What's with all the whiskey bottles in the pictures man???

Cheers Neville

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #11 on:** January 12, 2010, 02:50:58 PM »

John,

On spraying the dope...(I do it that way) keep it a thick as you can get it to spray, and spray it dry. Don't look to load on wet coats at the start, or it will seep through.
   )
And BTW the purpose of getting the grain correct is so that the silk will lay flat across the bays, not dip between the ribs )
   )
   like so ---> )

Ward-O (many silk jobs away!)

John Tomlin · « **Reply #12 on:** January 12, 2010, 04:11:04 PM »

Quote from: Neville Legg on January 12, 2010, 02:41:05 PM

What's with all the whiskey bottles in the pictures man???

Cheers Neville

The plane is on a BAR. Whiskey bottles and bars usually go hand in hand!

Neville Legg · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2010, 01:03:16 AM »

We don't have bars at home in England!!!!!! Only in pubs, do you run a pub?

LOL I used keep a bottle of scotch in my workshop till, I realised alcohol and sharp tools don't work!! Guess how I found out? stupid or what

Cheers Neville

John Tomlin · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2010, 05:20:35 AM »

Thanks for all the help guys. I will post pictures once it's done.

John

John Tomlin · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2010, 05:19:52 PM »

O.K. Guys, a couple more questions. I have the wing just about sealed, do you use talc and dope on the open structure or just the solid areas and do you sand the open structures and if so with what grade paper?

Thanks,

John

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2010, 06:28:34 PM »

You can dope and talc the whole thing. I use steel wool on the open bays, to cut down on the cut through. Run a magnet over the airplane after you are through and it will get really fuzzy.

John Tomlin · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2010, 05:38:57 PM »

Hopefully this will be the last question before completed pictures. How do you know there is enough dope on the wings / open areas? The solid areas are smooth. I'm ready to shoot them with silver dope but I want to make sure the open areas are complete before the silver.

thanks,

John

John Tomlin · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2010, 08:26:26 PM »

Thanks Ty. I think I'am at that stage now. Also thanks for the steel wool tip. That worked great!

John

John Tomlin · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2010, 10:41:07 AM »

O.K guys, as promised, here it is with the silver. Boy does it show up every little flaw. The grainy picture is the cap strips on the ribs. All of the open area filled nicely except almost all of the cap strips. Little confused as to why it did that. O'well, dope and talc should take care of it. Need to sand, sand, sand and then shoot the paint. Will be using klass coat. Have been using epoxy for years and love how it holds up as well as masks some imperfections.

John

Neville Legg · « **Reply #20 on:** February 16, 2010, 11:16:44 AM »

John, did you put plenty of dope on the cap strips before laying the silk over the wing? They might have taken on water from the silk! is that a possibility?

Cheers Neville

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #21 on:** February 16, 2010, 12:54:58 PM »

When doing silk, the wood needs to be well doped, else the dope over the wood will go through the silk into the wood and you can still see the silk grain over the wood when open bays are slick and shiny. Also, I put the silk on soppy wet, so the wood needs to be well sealed to keep the water out.

John Tomlin · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2010, 06:29:33 PM »

Thanks Guys, that is what I surmised. I did not put any dope on the cap strips and figured that the wood sucked the dope from the silk, thus leaving it unfilled on them. I am in the process of trying to fix that now. Won't make that mistake again! I was under the impression that when applying silk, you just put it on the parameter. Guess I was wrong on that. Live and learn.

John

John Tomlin · « **Reply #23 on:** March 08, 2010, 08:30:14 PM »

Well Guys, finally. Here it is. I think it looks o.k. for my first silk job. Will suit my needs. Hopefully it will bring back fond memories. The Buster was my first big C/L plane. Has an O.S. 20 FP. 14.5 oz before engine, gear, tank or wheels. It was 10 oz before covering. Painted with nitrate base then butyrate fill and Klass Kote color and 1 coat of clear. Hope to fly this weekend.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2010, 09:26:49 AM »

Looks great, I see followed directions. Now you want to do my finishes for me?

John Tomlin · « **Reply #25 on:** March 09, 2010, 12:31:45 PM »

Thanks! I use to love the K&B. The Klass Kote sprays and covers just like the K&B. Time will tell how it holds up. After seeing how this turned out, I just may silk, dope and Klass Kote my Veco Chief that is on the board. Was thinking of using monkey kote but now after actually using silk, I think a more traditional method is in line.

John

Larry Renger · « **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2010, 08:04:31 AM »

A trick passed on to me by George Aldrich regarding silk: Use a foam brush with the clear and lightly draw it along the length of the wing. Do NOT "brush" the dope on, as it will push the dope through the weave. You only need to dip the foam about 1/4" into the dope to load it up for a sweep; don't overload it. I just am finishing a Jamison in silk. Red silk with red dyed dope over it. Killer color!

Also, if you plan to do a smooth, color painted finish, it is lighter to cover over the silk with Japanese tissue than trying to fill the weave with dope and filler. Killer strong, too!

Bootlegger · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2010, 10:46:21 AM »

Larry R, show us some pictures. That sounds like a good finish. Thanks, "Bootlegger"

Mike Lauerman · « **Reply #28 on:** March 23, 2010, 09:35:51 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on March 10, 2010, 08:04:31 AM

A trick passed on to me by George Aldrich regarding silk: Use a foam brush with the clear and lightly draw it along the length of the wing. Do NOT "brush" the dope on, as it will push the dope through the weave. You only need to dip the foam about 1/4" into the dope to load it up for a sweep; don't overload it. I just am finishing a Jamison in silk. Red silk with red dyed dope over it. Killer color!

Also, if you plan to do a smooth, color painted finish, it is lighter to cover over the silk with Japanese tissue than trying to fill the weave with dope and filler. Killer strong, too!

LARRY: WHAT BRAND OF DYE, PLEASE? FROM WHERE? THANKS...