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Author Topic: Remove old silk and recover  (Read 1078 times)

Offline Dennis Toth

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Remove old silk and recover
« on: July 22, 2023, 01:51:35 PM »
My old El Diablo that I finished in 2015 with K&S light weight silk started developing rips. The silk is very thin and I had a clear finish except for the leading edge which had the yellow flames. After doing a couple patches I finally decided it was time to do a recover. The basic airframe is solid, no oil soaked areas. So simple just pull off the old silk and put on new thicker stuff. Well as I stared to remove the old silk I found something interesting. The silk on the top of the wing was much more brittle than the bottom and any silk under the colored paint was the original color and very strong. I had finished the ship with Butyrate dope and then gave it one coat of death paint clear. I though the death paint was UV blocker but it wasn't. Seems silk is very susceptible to UV and Butyrate clear too. To remove it you could just pop the surface and it would scatter like glass. I have removed the easy stuff, the bottom came off very clean and easy since it had more strength. The top came off in pieces and I still need to get it off the fixed flap area an some around the leading edge. I did find that using a heat gun can soften the dope a bit to allow pulling it off in bigger pieces. Some of the smaller ones will need maybe some thinner and sand paper.

I have some red mica film that I might use as it seems UV resistant and light. Will just use an acrylic to add the flames on the leading edge.

Best,    DennisT

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Remove old silk and recover
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2023, 02:35:44 PM »
Hmmm. Good info.

I have recently been flying a Cassutt-Twister built by Tony Naccarato. The whole plane was silked, but I don't know what kind/brand. It only has SIG(?) butyrate on it. I don't know how old it is, it might have hung in the hobby shop for quite a while. It had some rips in the wing when I got it--both top and bottom. I've been patching as I go to keep it in the air. I assume that clear dope won't protect the fabric from UV--that's why they use the silver paint for the first coats on full-scale aircraft.

The real issue though is that the butyrate apparently didn't completely fill the weave and oil is soaking thru in a bunch of places. I didn't catch that soon enough, so you know how this story goes....

Good luck with your recover job.

Dave
« Last Edit: July 22, 2023, 09:50:56 PM by Dave Hull »

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Remove old silk and recover
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2023, 11:47:48 AM »
Well, got it all off only to a few hours much easier than I thought it would. Heat gun and #11 blade we are down to wood. Now, since it was covered and finished with Butyrate using nitrate to stick down anything new is a no. The next step is light sanding and a little touch up, Then decision time,,,silkspan paper, 6mm silk, polysan??? I have all three.

Since this wing needs some stiffening from the covering the mica film is out (strong but a bit stretchy). With the big scallop wing tips, it might be a lot of work with the polyspan. Silk could be good since it will be painted not clear finish this time, but I have some really good silkspan and I know that works. Still thinking about it.

Best,    DennisT

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Remove old silk and recover
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2023, 12:47:15 PM »
Well, got it all off only to a few hours much easier than I thought it would. Heat gun and #11 blade we are down to wood. Now, since it was covered and finished with Butyrate using nitrate to stick down anything new is a no. The next step is light sanding and a little touch up, Then decision time,,,silkspan paper, 6mm silk, polysan??? I have all three.

Since this wing needs some stiffening from the covering the mica film is out (strong but a bit stretchy). With the big scallop wing tips, it might be a lot of work with the polyspan. Silk could be good since it will be painted not clear finish this time, but I have some really good silkspan and I know that works. Still thinking about it.

Best,    DennisT

Of the three, only silk will let you do the wing in one piece.  The plane is from the silk era, just silk it.  Second choice Polyspan with a 3" slit at the last rib then deal with the overlap.  You could MonoKote the tips.  After it is painted it all looks the same.

Good luck.  I need to make an OTS ship. 

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Remove old silk and recover
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2023, 06:20:17 AM »
As I am getting all the old silk removed, I noticed that along the trailing edge there was a little oil beneath the silk. When the ship was originally completed in 2015, I used a top spray clear coat of death paint. I was doing a light coat to keep the weight down and apparently didn't get enough on the trailing edge area. The rest of the fixed flap is good. I am soaking this up with talc and thinner and will pay closer attention on this refinish. Sometimes going to light is like it wasn't worth doing at all.

Since I'm going to paint the wing, I decided to go with GM grade silkspan that I have on hand. Contemplating covering the fixed flaps separate from the main wing. The El Diablo has these large scalloped fixed flaps doing a one-piece cover could be more work then doing it in two pieces. Doing a double cover over the trailing edge could add some stiffness which is always a good thing.

Miami Blue dope is on the way from Brodak Will start covering this week. Will probably us Diamond Clear top coat this time.

Best,     DennisT

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Remove old silk and recover
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2023, 06:56:49 AM »
Those old fixed flaps had a tendency to bow up/down in the center as finish went on.  Might I suggest a thin CF strip on the TE?  I have put one on everything I have built in the last 4 years and have developed -0- TE warps.  Works on stabs to.

If you are using silkspan then splitting the covering is a good idea.  Pollywog airfoils are difficult to cover with shrinkable covering.
Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC


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